Yes, you read correctly. I want to make a game only for role-players. There just simply isn't one out there. I'm a 'house husband' and have a lot of time on my hands. I'm going to make this so I am posting here for role-players and those interested to give me suggestions of what they would like to see in a game made just for them.

Now before any non-role-players out there tell me this is a silly idea because my audience will be limited and I won't make a ton of money I say this to you: I don't want to make a ton of money. I want to make a game that I want to play in. A world where the social network is as great as the adventuring side of the game. A world where you won't find one character named 'StabbyUDead' or 'HealzforU' is found. One where everything is interactable with. A world that ISN'T STATIC and the plot and game story is player made, not dev made.

Now, here's the thing. As of now I am alone on this, but am not against sharing the project with other coders, graphics and story people. I know this can be done. I just need help. One man can not make an MMO by himself, especially me.

And please, if this doesn't appeal to you, don't post here with immature comments like "It'll never work, give it up." If you can't contribute to a discussion in a mature, legible manner, don't post.

So, as a role-player, what elements that are lacking or are in other MMOs would you like to see in a hardcore RP game? What would make a truely RP-centric MMO? What should NOT be in such a game?

Here's a small list of what I believe should be in an RP MMO, though it is not complete:

1) A non-static world that the players rule, not the developers or NPCs.

2) A map that can be altered. Players can terraform, build structures, and even plant new trees and breed animals (And I know this can be done, see Wurm Online)

3) Every object in the game is interactable with and craftable by the players (if such a thing can be crafted)

4) Full pvp with concequences like the real world (death HURTS your character IF there's no perma-death, and guards along with like NPCs (and even players, especially players) can and will investigate murder and seek out the offender and act accordingly when they meet him or her)

5) RP names and chat rules are enforced with mutes and IP/account bans.

6) A player-based economy, no NPC vendors with unlimited funds.

7) Player run social organizations, no pre-determined guilds, kingdoms or other NPC run groups.

8) Realistic fauna, not the typical MMO "everything wants to kill ONLY the players, and they're encountered every 10 paces or so"

9) All wearable gear that shows, including scabbards, holsters and bags (No 'magnetic back' syndrome as I like to call it, where the weapon just magically clings to your back or side)

EDIT: Almost forgot ...

10) A game with no classes or levels. Everything is skill based and you learn your skills and get better from others, practice and training. No, I don't mean you have to make 10000000 daggers to get skill in Blacksmithing, you learn new techniques from others and discover ones yourself. Time-based learning combined with use-discoveries.

Those are just a few off the top of my head.

wow, if a game like this is ever made then i will definitely be there to play it.

a couple things come to mind that you havent mentioned yet, the first of them being instant travel and how it should never be used in an RP MMO. i would say a built in vent would be nice, but it can also get really annoying unless there is some serious mods controlling it. hmm cant think of much else, but you covered most of the good ideas.

ive seen a few games with some of the features that would make a good RP MMO, but havent seen one focused on RP yet.

Originally posted by pyrosent

a couple things come to mind that you havent mentioned yet, the first of them being instant travel and how it should never be used in an RP MMO. i would say a built in vent would be nice...

Instant travel is bad, but talking to someone across the continent is fine.

?

Originally posted by pyrosent

wow, if a game like this is ever made then i will definitely be there to play it.

 

a couple things come to mind that you havent mentioned yet, the first of them being instant travel and how it should never be used in an RP MMO. i would say a built in vent would be nice, but it can also get really annoying unless there is some serious mods controlling it. hmm cant think of much else, but you covered most of the good ideas.

 

ive seen a few games with some of the features that would make a good RP MMO, but havent seen one focused on RP yet.

No, no instant travel (unless the civilization devises say gateways, and they would be static and hard to devise) no 'easy-mode' play. There may be an OOC global chat (but I like the idea of messengers and travelling bards myself), and that's all, everything else is done in game, in person, just like the real world.

11) Mounts that are mounts, not just graphics that go poof when you dismount (hint hint WoW).

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by pyrosent

a couple things come to mind that you havent mentioned yet, the first of them being instant travel and how it should never be used in an RP MMO. i would say a built in vent would be nice...

 

 

Instant travel is bad, but talking to someone across the continent is fine.

 

?

ah sorry, my bad.. guess i should have explained that a little better. what i meant was a local version of it, so as you walk through a market or something you can hear actual people trading stuff.

thats another thing though, the way most mmos have a chat system wouldnt work in a hardcore RP MMO

Originally posted by Arshoon

Originally posted by pyrosent

wow, if a game like this is ever made then i will definitely be there to play it.

 

a couple things come to mind that you havent mentioned yet, the first of them being instant travel and how it should never be used in an RP MMO. i would say a built in vent would be nice, but it can also get really annoying unless there is some serious mods controlling it. hmm cant think of much else, but you covered most of the good ideas.

 

ive seen a few games with some of the features that would make a good RP MMO, but havent seen one focused on RP yet.

 

No, no instant travel (unless the civilization devises say gateways, and they would be static and hard to devise) no 'easy-mode' play. There may be an OOC global chat (but I like the idea of messengers and travelling bards myself), and that's all, everything else is done in game, in person, just like the real world.

11) Mounts that are mounts, not just graphics that go poof when you dismount (hint hint WoW).

OOC global chat sounds good, as long as there is a way to turn it off without any problems. also, what do you mean by traveling bards? when i think of that i think of a guy with a harp or something in tights singing of some famous guys accomplishments in the town square.

like the idea about mounts too, actual 'living' animals (or machines) instead of just a button on a hotbar

Lets see.

Instant travel is not bad when there is a RP element for it.  One of the best insta travels was UO runes.  Loved making runs and using them to get back and forth.  Also LOVED that they were lootable and people could take them from ya!

Also, vehicles.  Nice to have carts and or wagons as well as hosses.  Would also like to see some way of improving the technology in the game.

1) if the use of magic is limited in game, make technology the driving force and essentially make magic become obsolete because it is weak.

2) if the use of magic is high in game, make technology more dependant upon magic.  Like a carriage that is pulled by invisible horse instead of a steam engine or car.  Think Harry Potter type stuff.

With a game like this, graphics can come later.  Improve on the game play and you will attracter players.

I would also like to see a game basd on the Traveller Pen and Paper game or maybe even Space Opera.  Something outside of the Sword and Sorcery genre which seems so prevelant these days.

Pyro:

Yes, global chat would be easily turned off. What would traveling bards be? Simply those that go from town to town spreading news and entertaining. Many bards were just storytellers, not tight-wearing lute players. These bards can be players or NPCs as they aren't critical to the story, they tell it.

Nova: 

I agree on all points and magic, if it exsists, won't dominate play. I also want to see a game that perhaps starts in the stone age and technology is allowed to be developed, shared and advance cultures even to space exploration. But stone age is a little extreme, starting further on in technology would work better.

Oh, and ...

12) A realistic loot system. No finding weapons or suits of armor on wolves...

I love all those ideas. I would love a game where npc enemies have their own agenda, like bandits who travel around the globe robbing villages. If a player kills those bandits, they are gone forever and the villages will no longer see those bandits.

It'd be nice if NPCs progressed just as the characters do. Like if a bandit kept killing and robbing, his skill would increase and be better at it. Eventually if he killed enough he'd try to take over as the bandit leader. Basically, in-game evolution and politics that respond to themselves and the players around them.

But how are you going to get this done? People might help you out, but we'd have to know you're serious. Because, let's face it, all of us have an mmo we want to make.

 Why have NPC bandits? Allow for player bandits with perma death being the potential consequence of playing this option.

I basically want what is already available on Neverwinter Nights persistent world servers, but with better graphics and able to support a larger number of users.

No need to re-invent the wheel, just make it better.

Originally posted by calmyron

 Why have NPC bandits? Allow for player bandits with perma death being the potential consequence of playing this option.

i dunno, perma death is a very dangerous thing to throw around in an mmo. the RP aspect of it is sound, but when you actually start playing perma death can really hurt.

Such a game mostly exists, it's called second life.

Originally posted by Trenchgun

Such a game mostly exists, it's called second life.

Don't make me gag. Second Life isn't a dedicate RP world and is way too free-form for my tastes AND is highly unrealistic. Hell, you can fly right from the start.

And as to NPC bandits, no, that would be a player's job. NPC will ONLY fill non-critical roles, such as guards for PC settlements, hired mercenaries for non-combat oriented characters and player merchants. Everything else would be player based.

Perma-death makes the most sense RP-wise but is a double-edged sword. What if you die due to lag? What fun is that? A balance has to be made between true realism and what would make a player rage-quit because the character they worked so hard to develop suddenly was killed and unrecoverable. My idea was to have an afterlife system that included a fully playable Purgatory where the path back to life could be taken. Also, code will be put in place to try and minimize lag death. If the player is lagging (and didn't simply try and get out of the combat by logging out or closing the game) then perma-death would be cut off if the fight continued.

Also, GMs should be able to raise a player that can show they died 'unfairly'.

Originally posted by veritas_X

I basically want what is already available on Neverwinter Nights persistent world servers, but with better graphics and able to support a larger number of users.

No need to re-invent the wheel, just make it better.

Yes, NWN is a good point of reference but the engine is severely lacking on what I want. For starters, you can't swim, jump or fly. Need those. Second, its class-based. Classes impose restrictions not only on what you can learn but what kind of 'group' you can get ("Sorry, we need a healer"). There are other aspects about NWN that are good and others that need to be redone.

NWN is also free. I do want to make some money with this. If nothing more than to pay the bills and keep the servers going.

ooo a fully playable Purgatory sounds awesome. it would be interesting if there was some sort of reward or something once you get through it.. hmm on second thought that probably wouldnt be a good idea, but you never know

Originally posted by pyrosent

ooo a fully playable Purgatory sounds awesome. it would be interesting if there was some sort of reward or something once you get through it.. hmm on second thought that probably wouldnt be a good idea, but you never know

Purgatory would be the one place where you would have to discover how to get back yourself. And yes, some kind of reward other than making it back to life should be in order...or perhaps a curse. You did, after all, defy whatever gods there might be.

Then again, maybe now that you're back you can see things most cannot. And THEY don't like to be seen...

Originally posted by Arshoon

Originally posted by pyrosent

ooo a fully playable Purgatory sounds awesome. it would be interesting if there was some sort of reward or something once you get through it.. hmm on second thought that probably wouldnt be a good idea, but you never know

 

Purgatory would be the one place where you would have to discover how to get back yourself. And yes, some kind of reward other than making it back to life should be in order...or perhaps a curse. You did, after all, defy whatever gods there might be.

Then again, maybe now that you're back you can see things most cannot. And THEY don't like to be seen...

im liking this idea more and more, hmm would Purgatory be instanced for only yourself? would it be auto generated and different every time? after you get out, can you join a society of ghost hunters? heh so many questions keep on poping in my head

I've been thinking about a "purgatory" for a while now. Pretty much you die (at least during PVE, Idk about having it in PVP, could be too harsh)  it fades to black whatever. Then you're in a black and white shadow world (not unlike WoW.) But instead of the run back to your body you're going to have to get out of the underworld. Each time would be a randomly generated task of some difficulty (should take a good ten minutes to a half hour to complete.) It would be instanced so its just you in a dark hell being forced to fend off shades while completing a randomly generated gauntlet in order to reach the "golden bough" that will whisk you back to your body.

Or potentially creating a fully immersive "Land of the Dead" with "Thinnies" where the two alternate realms overlap.

Imagine being alive, getting killed, whisked into hell, fighting your way out with the help of other players, and then emerging in a land where the two worlds touch. One design would be a sort of dead marshes type place. A swamp wreathed in mists. Another could be a grim golgotha filled with the bones of humans. Regardless it would be the realm of the undead, and they'd try to stop you from getting in or out.

On the otherhand, a land of the dead if properly developed could in fact be a great setting for high difficulty raid zones. You'd have to die to get in, form a group from the dead and then fight yourway across the massive underworld to the raid zone and fight some high difficulty bosses, get mad loot, and then fight your way back to life. Good news being if you "die" while dead you can just grave run as per wow from a nearby spawn point.

To the OP, there's a little game that's running right now that is pretty similar to what you would enjoy.

Haven and Hearth

It doesn't have the RP enforced names or chat, but there's plenty of room for players to do that, and the world is incredibly conducive to RP. Heck, you don't even see other players' names unless they tell you or you open up a private chat.

Haven and Hearth has a lot of the qualities that you proposed up there. It's a little game run by a few devs. They fairly frequently add new stuff to the game, and interact with the community a lot as well. You'll even occasionally see them walking around playing, too.

I can't really describe it in a manner that gives it justice.

Originally posted by Tykero

To the OP, there's a little game that's running right now that is pretty similar to what you would enjoy.

 

Haven and Hearth

 

 

It doesn't have the RP enforced names or chat, but there's plenty of room for players to do that, and the world is incredibly conducive to RP. Heck, you don't even see other players' names unless they tell you or you open up a private chat.

Haven and Hearth has a lot of the qualities that you proposed up there. It's a little game run by a few devs. They fairly frequently add new stuff to the game, and interact with the community a lot as well. You'll even occasionally see them walking around playing, too.

 

I can't really describe it in a manner that gives it justice.

Interesting to say the least, but the 2D direction of it leave a lot to be desired. I need 3D, the immersion factor, even if the 3D graphics are poor needs to be in there. Also, with real terraforming, you need 3D.

Now to figure out how to draw the map in code...

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Originally posted by calmyron
 Why have NPC bandits? Allow for player bandits with perma death being the potential consequence of playing this option.

---

Mostly if the game is going for a classic tabletop role-playing feel, it needs to create a custom-feeling experience for the player.

Richard Garriot once mentioned that the challenge of going from singleplayer to MMO RPG was that the entire experience no longer revolved around the player. But he said that back with UO, whereas nowadays WOW has managed to get a good chunk of that "world revolves around you" feeling (Guild Wars did an even more impressive job in making the world revolve around you, despite its faults.)

So for our bandits, they basically need to be NPCs so that when the player logs on he can always go out and find some bandits. Maybe they're not always in the same place with static respawns. Maybe they actually stay dead in an area for a while, or have a complex system for how they infest areas based on local economy/military influences. But they're always out there somewhere with a way the player can find them and have the adventure he wants on-demand (although the important thing is more that the player can have an adventure on-demand; not necessarily that he can dictate that he wants to specifically fight bandits.)

None of this conflicts with having a "Player Bandit System" on top of that.

And well...perma-death is a separate topic entirely, as it creates an entirely different sort of game.

Cool idea. I think this is definitely one of the most viable niche game ideas.

Roleplaying isn't defined by a series of features though, it is more of an attitude you take toward a game.

Unlike people big into grouping or hardcore PvP, where you can make a game just for them by making the mechanics centered around their play style, which in effect alienates everyone that doesn't like those mechanics leaving only those that do.

Roleplayers are more diverse.  Personally I would like a game where people roleplayed more, well not really roleplay but took more interest in the personality of their character.  But at the same time a bunch of those feature I either don't like or don't want to the same degree.

Plus enforcing roleplay rules is a losing battle.

Originally posted by Arshoon 

Now to figure out how to draw the map in code...

There's plenty of 3D rendering engines that can do that sort of thing e.g Irrlicht and Ogre3D. What i think you'll find you need is a zone/world editor like the ones that come with Morrowind and Oblivion.