Originally posted by BartDaCat

People are going to check out other games besides WoW, people are waiting for AION, people are waiting for the upcoming Star Wars MMO, people are waiting for this, people are waiting for that... GOOD!!!  I'm glad to see that the PC game market has become so active and competitive!

Not too long ago the PC gaming market was being hailed as on it's way out and dying.  Along comes an easily accessible game like WoW and breathes a new breath of life into a fading and tired industry, and presto, we're all back to clamoring over the huge selection of games before us once again, with some people making ridiculous claim that "this one will be the WoW killer!" /eyeroll

We should all be happy that something has raised the bar within the industry so high that every other game developer is scrambling to beat it with something better.  Blizzard, as well as a few other important and clever developers (i.e. CCP "EVE Online"), have really raised the bar for the entire industry, and the rewards are ours to reap as we begin to see a vast selection of other MMOs hit the market that have something to offer for so many varied and individual tastes.

Personally, I'm enjoying my time in the AION beta very much, and I will be playing it when it goes live, but I bear Blizzard no ill will.  Their creative development team and incredible advancements in designing very intuitive and easy-to-use User Interfaces have made me appreciate what WoW brought to the market, and it has set a standard for other MMOs that will follow it.  It's also one of the few MMOs to tackle so many different environments for exploration, from swimming mechanics to flying mechanics and everything else in between.

I can only hope that AION will take notes and meet or surpass many of the expectations that people will have, in order for it to succeed and survive post-WoW.

Yes we all can thank Blizzard for those key points but, I hope when other Devs look at Wow they don't consider everything in that game to be the standard to making a mmorpg or we will be right back where we started before wow was released when it comes to mmorpgs.

I don't think that a WoW killer is a smart thing to desire, if you want choices in the available MMOs released and developed. Therefore, Aion not being an WoW killer is a good thing. Personally, I'd rather we have 5-10 MMOs that all together share the WoW market force than one MMO that will recreate the WoW phenomenon.

Regarding the previous poster. For me, MMOs are about collaboration and cooperation. Athene's philosophy is an abomination in my eyes that doesn't fit anywhere, PvE or PvP. It will take great guilds, aka great collaborators, to maintain the hold of castles in Aion and will take great cooperators to beat the PvE encounters of the game. And of course, this is not strictly Aion related, as for me, it is a philosophy that enchances gameplay in all MMOs I've played. It may also come as surprise to some, but I've met people in MMOs, that have became very dear friends in RL, long after I quit playing those games. So the relationships developed in these social games are not like a TV switch, which you switch off and they disappear once you stop gaming.

Originally posted by odelldanielj

Have played in the betas so far, and it's a fun game, but is no WoW killer.  I would put this game at 500k tops in the US 6 months after it's release.  Before you all start with the WoW = lowest common denominator flaming understand there needs to be some balance between pain in the arse, and easy as hell.  And while this game isn't over the top difficult, the questing is a pain along with a few other items that will cause it to lose about half of it's player base withing the first half year.  Not to worry though, there will be enough players to keep the game rolling myself included.

All mmo have trouble with balance in the beginning, if you played enough of them you should know that. Even WoW had that and is still having that id might add, but that is the way they want it, othervise they wouldnt make one class best then next month or patchday another class best. These are facts.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

Personally, I don't care what kills WoW. My PC couldnt handle EQ2 way back when, so I went to wow and loved it.(for a while)I'm a long time EQ / DAoC gamer and I am LOVING Aion. It will be a breath of fresh air for all the people who are just sick of playing wow. I for one am one of them, along with a lot of people I know personally, and a lot of people here. The people who tried WAR / AoC will move to wow. Every old school DAoC player will be in Aion. Oh, and for the most part, most of these people who first mentioned the words "wow killer" are wow players themselves. People sick of wow just don't care what happens to it.

Originally posted by Xasapis

I don't think that a WoW killer is a smart thing to desire, if you want choices in the available MMOs released and developed. Therefore, Aion not being an WoW killer is a good thing. Personally, I'd rather we have 5-10 MMOs that all together share the WoW market force than one MMO that will recreate the WoW phenomenon.

Regarding the previous poster. For me, MMOs are about collaboration and cooperation. Athene's philosophy is an abomination in my eyes that doesn't fit anywhere, PvE or PvP. It will take great guilds, aka great collaborators, to maintain the hold of castles in Aion and will take great cooperators to beat the PvE encounters of the game. And of course, this is not strictly Aion related, as for me, it is a philosophy that enchances gameplay in all MMOs I've played. It may also come as surprise to some, but I've met people in MMOs, that have became very dear friends in RL, long after I quit playing those games. So the relationships developed in these social games are not like a TV switch, which you switch off and they disappear once you stop gaming.

How can you compare tactical strategies in numbers to be on the same level as someones individual's progression ? Last i checked in Aion if you equipped a weapon i do not receive the benefits from that item. How does group ramification matter ? It's all about who has what and how good they are with it. In the end it's about beating the guy in front of you to a blood pulp and hold your own.

You are only as strong as your weakest link in group pvp. Are you the weakest link ? As for the Athene part I think you misunderstood what he meant. The final goal or whatever for him was playing his best for the content he enjoyed the most. What kept him playing was the ability to keep progressing in his favorit content given how hard the class he was playing was to play.  I can till you this right now. No one plays a game for other people. Being a gamer a mmorpger in this case. You keep doing it for selfish reasons whatever they might be. I merely pointed out that i can relate to Athene when it comes to playing mmorpgs because that's my selfish reason for playing them too.

I see many mentions of WoW in the reply. I just have to say, WoW did not set the bar high for game quality.  However, WoW did set the bar high for story and lore (due to warcraft derived) and also bar high for how a MMO business should be run (easy access, and spoon feed the new generation of gamers)

The idea is WoW have it's good point and its bad point, the same is true about any game including Aion.

One thing I am glad about Aion is that they didn't make it too easy, I actually enjoy the tradition Asian MMORPG model.  Which is focused on rewarding efforts.  Sure someone consider it as time spent vs reward, but I am a MMORPG gamer.  I stay true to the MMORPG philosophy of acquiring level, money, and gear through fair play and effort.  The younger generations have regretably lost their principles due to the common use of bots, hacks, and various other third party ways to get ahead through cheating.  Even more are lost in their own ideals and don't have any sort of self awareness and principle to call their own.  I hope eventually this might be remedied, but I won't hold my breath.

For the people who do manage to get drawn into Aion (and from what I read on other forums they're MANY) I cannot see how they can go back to WoW. I tried, but I can't. So I've rerolled countless times, spent DAYS on crafting and I'm still not sick of it all.

Seeing the patches and the quality of it all that the devs are giving us I get excited every time I think about it.

I haven't been this schoolgirly about a game since...well...since pre-BC WoW and Metal Gear Solid 1 (psx).

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Originally posted by Zorndorf

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Originally posted by green13

Aion is better than WoW in every way that WoW tries to be good.
But it has higher system specs, and WoW players have a sense of investment in their characters there. Those are the only reasons that this or pretty much any other game won't actually kill WoW.

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LOL
 
AYAwn has people with wings on their backs.
In Wow you have at least 50 + personal flying mounts to choose from and you can fly everywhere in Northrend and Outland.
I can parachute, ride tanks, joust, use catapults and real time destruction of Keeps in WOW...
I can choose from the massively played Wintergrasp, 6 BG's , 5 Arenas , leveling through PvP in patch 3.2, massive City Raids and simply the BEST PVE Raid content of ANY mmorpg which btw is scaled. Only a handful guilds can down the last Ulduar Raid boss.
That scaled PVE content is supplemented with real time animated destruction of Keeps and ... phasing: the world changes for good ...according to your questing.
 
Yep a Korean product and then you have a Blizzard product, which upped the standards in 3.2 once again.
Jesus what a choice.
 

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Again, WoW is just moving more and more far away from MMORPG into 'social networkings' and 'peggle-styled mini-games'.

Either way, flying and gliding within Aion is amazing. While running to your next quest-point you actually have fun finding the best spots to glide from to get there faster.

Overall the game does need more polish (and there was no local chat in beta QQ), but overall I can see promise in it.

WoW is just trying to fit more and more mini-games into what is meant to be a MMORPG where they should be working on actual mechanics that matter.

Parachutes in WoW cannot be compared with Wings in Aion, if there is one thing that is done well in Aion it is the Wings and Gliding.

50+ mounts, and they all do the same thing. And in the end it is more like 10 mounts with recolouring.

Either way, if you were a true MMO-gamer you'd know that flying mounts ruined WoW if anything... Sorry but making sure players NEVER need to interact with each other and can just speed over the vast world that was created goes against what it means to be a MMORPG.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 You know the one with the 50+ personal flying mounts with griffons and dragons instead of wings growing out of shoulders as a gimmick....

 

I wasn't aware of Airborne Combat in WoW, set on a strategic timer, with crowd control including the ability to force others to the ground, making PvP more complex than before, in a fully 3D space. 

Nor was I aware of the lore associated with the many "gotta have em all" mounts in WoW, unlike, say the character driven, Ascension of characters in Aion as a part of the actual story.

 Truth be told, I didn't love Aion CB, but criticizing the wings in favor of mounts seems foolish. It couldn't be less gimmicky.

I hope Aion does really well in the NA/EU! However the notion that it will kill WoW is overly ambitious. Outside of the dated graphics WoW is one of the most polished tittles out there. There is something for everyone, both casual and hardcore, PvE and PvP.. The world zones are unique and all fun to explore.

I don't play WoW anymore, but do have good memories of my time there. I just don't understand all the WoW hate...

I dont think its a huge surprise since the release of Aion in Asia, WoW's sub numbers have nose dived so much. Aion has taken a majority of the market share in Asia, by simply being a better product than than WoW. Finally a game that performs better, is graphically surperior and has better PvP content. Once Aion releases in the West i expect their numbers to surpase WoW, just like whats happened in Asia. Go Aion !

Originally posted by supbro

I dont think its a huge surprise since the release of Aion in Asia, WoW's sub numbers have nose dived so much. Aion has taken a majority of the market share in Asia, by simply being a better product than than WoW. Finally a game that performs better, is graphically surperior and has better PvP content. Once Aion releases in the West i expect their numbers to surpase WoW, just like whats happened in Asia. Go Aion !

Duo to china being down

And no i dont think Aion will reach WoW numbers even if China WoW stay down

I still think it's great that the Aion fankids will lick someone' s feet if they come in here saying "OMG AION AWESOME IT WILL KILL WOW 1 BILLION SUBS SO GREAT!" but the second someone is like "meh, it's ok"  or "meh, didn't like it" they just get rabid and start with the "don't judge it u stupid WoW player" BS.

Aion is a decent game. It's nothing new. It's nothing innovative. It has ok graphics if you like anime style artwork. It has wings. It has semi-open PVP and a lot of grinding late game.   The end.

Take that how you will.

I wish people would stop going on about this topic. Aion is a new MMO that people is going to play because they want to play Aion and not because it kills off some other game they used to play.........

WoW doesn't need a game to kill it, the WoW community will kill the game itself.

WoW is not what it used to be, and in my opinion is already dead, the millions of desperate addicted subscribers are keeping the life support machine turned on and that is all.

Your comparing a game that has yet to come in NA/EU with a game that been out for years.... lol seriously give it time.

"Have played in the betas so far, and it's a fun game, but is no WoW killer. "

It is for me. I canceled my WoW subscription (4th time), i will be back with next expansion probably anyway.

"And while this game isn't over the top difficult, the questing is a pain along with a few other items that will cause it to lose about half of it's player base withing the first half year."

This game has right balance - it is hard enough to be challenging, and easy enough not to be frustrating. Unlike wow, which now is so easy that it is frustrating (there is no longer point in playing), and there are another things planned to make it even easier.

I hope this game does surpass WoW, then people can rant about the Aion killer and blizzard can get some peace and quiet already.

Originally posted by Scalebane

I hope this game does surpass WoW, then people can rant about the Aion killer and blizzard can get some peace and quiet already.

Like Blizzard givesa stuff what ppl post here.

Even though there are a few players that are mature enough, WoW is an immature fest.

I for one don't want Aion to even put a dent in WoW's sub numbers, because that will lead at least a million players from the most immature community I have ever experienced into Aion.

It makes sense of course, as the more players the more idiots, and WoW has the majority of them playing an exceedingly easy game, which is still being dumbed down (is this even possible?) with every patch.

No thanks.

Originally posted by Leucrotta

Originally posted by Scalebane

I hope this game does surpass WoW, then people can rant about the Aion killer and blizzard can get some peace and quiet already.

 

Like Blizzard givesa stuff what ppl post here.

I'm sure that blizzard love the fact Aion is taking alot their subs away, it's great for business isn't it ? fool

Originally posted by nblitz

For the people who do manage to get drawn into Aion (and from what I read on other forums they're MANY) I cannot see how they can go back to WoW. I tried, but I can't. So I've rerolled countless times, spent DAYS on crafting and I'm still not sick of it all.

Seeing the patches and the quality of it all that the devs are giving us I get excited every time I think about it.

I haven't been this schoolgirly about a game since...well...since pre-BC WoW and Metal Gear Solid 1 (psx).

I find myself jumping to other MMO's only to be disapointed  with it personally (AOC, WAR) but each time I go back to WOW I stay in it shorter and shorter in time.  It won't be long time I find one that will be a good fit but for me WOW has run it's course and I had many years of fun in there.  So those that continue to stay in WOW will have the same fun they are having but I feel Aion will be a nice change of pace needed for me to stay in a game.

I as well don't wish for WOW to fold up and die either because each game trying to fight for the players hopefully means the companies will try to come up with new ideas and actually work towards a game people want to stay in. 

Originally posted by nblitz

 

Seeing the patches and the quality of it all that the devs are giving us I get excited every time I think about it.

I haven't been this schoolgirly about a game since...well...since pre-BC WoW and Metal Gear Solid 1 (psx).

In the current patch notes we have

Crusaders' Coliseum a new raid that is exactly the same as every other new raid lately. It will be nerfed a week after release because people will moan its too hard.

A new 40man battleground that is basically AV with siege vehicles. Siege vehicles are boring as hell, why did they add this rubbish? I want to play a fantasy MMO not ride a steamtank.

Even more new mounts that are just recoloured old mounts.

Gains from 2v2 arena removed because they couldn't balance fotm classes.

XP gain from PVP with the ability to 'turn it off' which I think is lame because WoW used to be about following the way the game was made but now its about whining long enough to get what you want.

Expanded Raid ID times because people need longer to do raids cause people don't log on and when they do theyre afk in the raid anyway.

More emblem token changes. The whole idea of buying gear from vendors is retarded the point of the game was that you owned that rare epic item because you were a badass warrior and killed the dragon but these days simple vendors in the city own 100 of each epic item that you can buy off them for a token, I mean what the hell? 

Another load of class changes, classes are getting changed so much these days its silly.

Mounts available at level 20/40/60, pathetic. Let's just let players buy levels from the NPC's too. Cold weather flying can now be learnt via a book sent to a level 70 character. Great now you can even skip the brand new content too.

Some new UI changes: Casting bars under a target's portrait will now indicate whether or not the cast can be interrupted.

Is this really needed? Are people that clueless that they need this rubbish?

New quest helper feature for those too thick to download the addon now Blizzard will do that for you too.

Some profession changes that will get changed again next patch anyway. They boosted engineeromg this time but they will have to boost the other ones now because people will moan that "Nitro Boosts: Now have a 5-second duration" is too overpowered and they demand whatever professions they own to be boosted upto par!!!

A truck load of tooltip corrections and bug fixes. Yay

Those patch notes were so juicy I creamed myself. Oh wait........

Originally posted by Biohunter

 

Some of us would want to because we enjoy a challenge. If there are players out there interested in shorting themselves the experience then thats cool too. But I liked to be pushed. Im too old to play tackle football so this fills that competitive void. I tried to do that with my wife but, she's a worse loser than I am. :-)

I'm sorry but this is just too rich. A challenge in WOTLK... really? WoW does a ton of great things in how it lets everyone do everything. It's just funny how everything is so easy mode. Instances do not even require you to mark pulls like in TBC or before... you just aoe pull everything now (granted you still do some of it in 25 mans). Heck Vault drops 8.5 tier and that's designed to be pugged every week. I'd rather not do hard mode either since there is pretty much nothing to do after that. I got bored with the game in 07 after ROS and had a full suit of shadow gear (the rest of the bosses were a joke)... i didn't feel like waiting till march for the Sunwell. The game got soft after they removed attunements etc.

Oh and this isn't to say Aion is more hardcore or not ive only betaed. Im just saying i disagree with the "challenge" of WoW these days. But who really cares about that... if you have fun you have fun. It doesn't matter if you're playing Hello Kitty Island if you like it then play it who gives a damn. You like WoW? No problem, hope you enjoy it. We'll enjoy our game also.

I find myself jumping to other MMO's only to be disapointed  with it personally (AOC, WAR) but each time I go back to WOW I stay in it shorter and shorter in time.  It won't be long time I find one that will be a good fit but for me WOW has run it's course and I had many years of fun in there.  So those that continue to stay in WOW will have the same fun they are having but I feel Aion will be a nice change of pace needed for me to stay in a game.

I as well don't wish for WOW to fold up and die either because each game trying to fight for the players hopefully means the companies will try to come up with new ideas and actually work towards a game people want to stay in. 

Problem with mmos is it can take awhile / time dedication to see how good the game is. That's why game reviews of an mmo are pointless unless they indicate the level, time they played, and what they did in the game. MMOs are all stuck in that mold of leveling out through quests and stuff when a lot of people just want to see how the end game is. I mean WAR wasn't exactly perfect throughout the leveling but i was only truely disappointed once i saw how badly implemented the end game pvp was.

If you're looking for a mold breaker Aion may not be for you. But if you want to try something else with potientially good pvp and see where it goes (unfortunetly that's just how things work) give it a shot. I mean no one has really done that well except of daoc in my opinion.

Ive found myself enjoying beta so far and will play it during launch. How's the game at the end? No idea, but im willing to try it out. Like you said it is also a nice change of pace.

Originally posted by SaetiaBelle

Originally posted by nblitz

 

Seeing the patches and the quality of it all that the devs are giving us I get excited every time I think about it.

I haven't been this schoolgirly about a game since...well...since pre-BC WoW and Metal Gear Solid 1 (psx).

 

In the current patch notes we have

Crusaders' Coliseum a new raid that is exactly the same as every other new raid lately. It will be nerfed a week after release because people will moan its too hard.

A new 40man battleground that is basically AV with siege vehicles. Siege vehicles are boring as hell, why did they add this rubbish? I want to play a fantasy MMO not ride a steamtank.

Even more new mounts that are just recoloured old mounts.

Gains from 2v2 arena removed because they couldn't balance fotm classes.

XP gain from PVP with the ability to 'turn it off' which I think is lame because WoW used to be about following the way the game was made but now its about whining long enough to get what you want.

Expanded Raid ID times because people need longer to do raids cause people don't log on and when they do theyre afk in the raid anyway.

More emblem token changes. The whole idea of buying gear from vendors is retarded the point of the game was that you owned that rare epic item because you were a badass warrior and killed the dragon but these days simple vendors in the city own 100 of each epic item that you can buy off them for a token, I mean what the hell? 

Another load of class changes, classes are getting changed so much these days its silly.

Mounts available at level 20/40/60, pathetic. Let's just let players buy levels from the NPC's too. Cold weather flying can now be learnt via a book sent to a level 70 character. Great now you can even skip the brand new content too.

Some new UI changes: Casting bars under a target's portrait will now indicate whether or not the cast can be interrupted.

Is this really needed? Are people that clueless that they need this rubbish?

New quest helper feature for those too thick to download the addon now Blizzard will do that for you too.

Some profession changes that will get changed again next patch anyway. They boosted engineeromg this time but they will have to boost the other ones now because people will moan that "Nitro Boosts: Now have a 5-second duration" is too overpowered and they demand whatever professions they own to be boosted upto par!!!

A truck load of tooltip corrections and bug fixes. Yay

Those patch notes were so juicy I creamed myself. Oh wait........

 

So true .. and you forgot to mention that rogues will be able to use axes too .. Well it's REALLY "rogueish" to run around with two axes, becous the kids playing em, didn't think daggers or swords were cool enough I guess..

Besides .. Wtf happend with that Death Knight class.. A way overpowered class STARTING in lvl 55 is just against everything WoW used to stand for imo.. -> Spending a long and often boring time, leveling your char with the dream of being one of the über-cool geard guys, duelling outside orgrimmar ... Now you'll get raped by a noob death knight geared fully from DK-only quests..

Aion is IMO a refreshing wind blow for those who needs to play a game which is everything we loved about wow, but with new grapichs/land/classes/contents/professions/skills and so on, to explore .. Besides .. I was getting really tired of all these orcs n elfs..

I pre-purchased Aion and I've been playing the events so far .. And I love Aion for what I've seen and I'm sure my friends will too

P.s I play wow myself, but I swear I'm leaving when Aion is out