Search for the guilty, punish the innocent. 

Originally posted by krityc

 SoE has always been full of fail.

If not for EQ they wouldn't exist. They ruin every game they touch that has any sense of offering what the players want. The dude in charged should have been canned b4 these 41 people. Just because he was around when EQ launched he shouldn't have job security. EQ launched years ago with very little competition. It's a new day and age, and it's time to change the leadership imo.

In my opinion if SoE is really serious about regaining a leadership roll in the MMO world they should start trimming staff from the top down, not the bottom up.  How about they put some actual gamers in charge instead of bean counters?
 

For whatever reason (many of us blame the SOE leadership's arrogance coupled with their ostrich-like head in sand behavior), SOE never could get their head wrapped around the "Community Relations" concept, let alone understand how absolutely critical the community is in the success of an MMO.

I'd also like to correct SOE's release here -- I remind SOE that you cannot call yourself a leader at all if you know nothing of and care nothing about the community because the community actually justifies your existance.

I was working for SOE and yes the top people are the ones that screw up the most, you got brilliant guys at the mid and lower levels but the top guys are stuborn and arrogant, and yes their CEO Smedley does try to keep that delusion that they are #1 just because of EQ...

SOE is a classic example of how to fail if you do not follow the Blizzard example... But thats a different story.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Reklaw

Only 5% in these day's of economic struggle, they must be doing something pretty good compared to most other company's across other industries.

Of course it's slightly news due to it being a MMORPG company and this a MMORPG website, but overall they must be doing something pretty good to only let go of 5% of their employies. And of course it's sad for those who lost there jobs. But it's definitly does not say anything about the state of SOE, unless people have no idea what is going on with the world around them.

 

Doing something right? 

What company releases a new product to claims of 4 millions users and has to lay of employees only a few months later? 

They should be swimming in money right now, not cutting jobs to reduce costs. 

 

 

Anyway the article didn't state who was fired, just that 5% of SOE employies where fired.

Anyway with most company's over time they will need to get ride of some people, of course this isn't a cool thing but it's how it works, lets say they had 15 people on their admin.staff, the tasks they performed now is still done only not by people but perhaps by some program, cutting cost making more profit.

But hey let's not really think cause SOE is evil.......right........

Originally posted by Reklaw

 

Anyway the article didn't state who was fired, just that 5% of SOE employies where fired.

Anyway with most company's over time they will need to get ride of some people, of course this isn't a cool thing but it's how it works, lets say they had 15 people on their admin.staff, the tasks they performed now is still done only not by people but perhaps by some program, cutting cost making more profit.

But hey let's not really think cause SOE is evil.......right........

You are saying this is just random timing of some normal business practice for a company to slash staff.  Something that is normal and not indicative of something wrong? Then you go on to say this somehow shows soe is doing something right?  

Not thinking would be ignoring the downward trend of soes mmos for the last several years.  Ignoring the only new product they have released in close to 5 years struggling to fill up 1 server.  Ignoring Sony restructuring soe into another division that actually has video game experience.  Ignoring the rash of RMT they have unleashed on their games to gain more money.  That all looks like thinking to me. 

Just because I don't share the same views as other people doesn't make the points I post false or imaginary. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Reklaw

 

Anyway the article didn't state who was fired, just that 5% of SOE employies where fired.

Anyway with most company's over time they will need to get ride of some people, of course this isn't a cool thing but it's how it works, lets say they had 15 people on their admin.staff, the tasks they performed now is still done only not by people but perhaps by some program, cutting cost making more profit.

But hey let's not really think cause SOE is evil.......right........

You are saying this is just random timing of some normal business practice for a company to slash staff.  Something that is normal and not indicative of something wrong? Then you go on to say this somehow shows soe is doing something right?  

Not thinking would be ignoring the downward trend of soes mmos for the last several years.  Ignoring the only new product they have released in close to 5 years struggling to fill up 1 server.  Ignoring Sony restructuring soe into another division that actually has video game experience.  Ignoring the rash of RMT they have unleashed on their games to gain more money.  That all looks like thinking to me. 

Just because I don't share the same views as other people doesn't make the points I post false or imaginary. 

 

 

Thats just the thing you do not seem to understand , with me saying they must be doing something right, means that it's pretty low number of people getting fired at SOE mainly due to the way most people speak about them you would figure that much more would get fired.

Like you said there are so many things that don't work as intented, but hey lets focus on what I said with they must be doing something right cause lets face it even a sarcastic remark when it comes to SOE most simply don't see it.

Originally posted by hoopty

Originally posted by patrikd23

Originally posted by Stratford

Maybe if SOE actually published GOOD MMORPGs, they wouldn't have this problem.

 

True, but their lack of understanding of communities and player base and fans is what is their fall.

 

The CEO Need there Millions dollar bonus..The cut has to come some where...

It's funny, you never hear of companies eliminating bonuses and or reducing exectutive and administrative pay in order to keep the employees who actually produce the product or provide the services that pay for those bonuses.  So they lay off the bread winners then make the ones who remain work twice as hard with no increase in salary.

Unregulated capitalism is as bad as socialism, communism, facism and any other ism you can come up with.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Reklaw

 

Anyway the article didn't state who was fired, just that 5% of SOE employies where fired.

Anyway with most company's over time they will need to get ride of some people, of course this isn't a cool thing but it's how it works, lets say they had 15 people on their admin.staff, the tasks they performed now is still done only not by people but perhaps by some program, cutting cost making more profit.

But hey let's not really think cause SOE is evil.......right........

You are saying this is just random timing of some normal business practice for a company to slash staff.  Something that is normal and not indicative of something wrong? Then you go on to say this somehow shows soe is doing something right?  

Not thinking would be ignoring the downward trend of soes mmos for the last several years.  Ignoring the only new product they have released in close to 5 years struggling to fill up 1 server.  Ignoring Sony restructuring soe into another division that actually has video game experience.  Ignoring the rash of RMT they have unleashed on their games to gain more money.  That all looks like thinking to me. 

Just because I don't share the same views as other people doesn't make the points I post false or imaginary. 

 

 

 

Thats just the thing you do not seem to understand , with me saying they must be doing something right, means that it's pretty low number of people getting fired at SOE mainly due to the way most people speak about them you would figure that much more would get fired.

Like you said there are so many things that don't work as intented, but hey lets focus on what I said with they must be doing something right cause lets face it even a sarcastic remark when it comes to SOE most simply don't see it.

The moment a business fires 5% of it's entire staff under the excuse of bussiness restructuring always means in reality that things didn't go as planned and actually went bad. Pure and simple!

If your MMO's are doing great, with great subscription numbers. Then plenty of money comes in every month. And instead of firing people, you are actually hiring!

But when you look at SOE's games. They seemed to be forced by dumping RMT Cash Shops in EverQuest 2. A game that is going on for 5 years. And EverQuest 1. A game that is going on for 10 years.

With Vanguard it was even worse. They just downright slammed a full RMT system (Live Gamer) on all servers not so long ago!

You NEVER EVER do that on existing subscription based games.

But somehow, John Smedly is either completely ignorant and clueless (what wouldn't be an unlikely conclusion to be honest) or they felt that they were forced to go this drastic route to survive.

Meaning the company is actually doing really bad. Like subscription numbers going down (wich are), people not spending that much in their Station Cash store like they hoped and their new game Free Realms not doing that good afterall.

Then you come into the position that you are forced to lay people off.

Cheers

Originally posted by Stratford

Maybe if SOE actually published GOOD MMORPGs, they wouldn't have this problem.

Never played one of their games, because their websites weren't convincing much. I actually go to more advancement games.

I dunno, EQ2 got better after launch and I enjoyed playing it for 1.5-2 years. I also enjoyed classic EQ. So they can make a good MMOs. EQ2 is one of the better PvE games out there...DC Online looks lame though, I hate the graphics, the art style and everything else.

Originally posted by Guillermo197

 

The moment a business fires 5% of it's entire staff under the excuse of bussiness restructuring always means in reality that things didn't go as planned and actually went bad. Pure and simple!

Sure if it's a small company you are right. Just SOE aint some small company.

If your MMO's are doing great, with great subscription numbers. Then plenty of money comes in every month. And instead of firing people, you are actually hiring!

Hmm again I have to ask you did the article show who was fired other then 41 employies?

But when you look at SOE's games. They seemed to be forced by dumping RMT Cash Shops in EverQuest 2. A game that is going on for 5 years. And EverQuest 1. A game that is going on for 10 years.

Never saw me say otherwise

With Vanguard it was even worse. They just downright slammed a full RMT system (Live Gamer) on all servers not so long ago!

I really dislike RMT so no need to comment on this.

You NEVER EVER do that on existing subscription based games.

True, but then again you, me and most on forums like this don't see hard data coming from the servers so all we left to do is speculate which cause us to feel that you never should do that to existing subs. Like I said we only know so much.

But somehow, John Smedly is either completely ignorant and clueless (what wouldn't be an unlikely conclusion to be honest) or they felt that they were forced to go this drastic route to survive.

Thats the thing that makes me think many people seem clueless. You speak about J.M like you are 12 years old, Anyone in business regardless how you feel about him doing his job, he is still doing his job, as the man was even 10% of what people make out of him then the man would be long gone, geuss what most of us in how we feel about Smed might be fully off. Lets face it based on a few interviews or perhaps seen on some confernace doesn't make it so that we really know the man. Do I aprove on his business practices, many times I don't, but again I do not have hard data, unless you can provide that to me, please do so so we can make a more factual discussion about SOE and how they handle their business.

Meaning the company is actually doing really bad. Like subscription numbers going down (wich are), people not spending that much in their Station Cash store like they hoped and their new game Free Realms not doing that good afterall.

Really bad?, please wake up, last month the US along 467,000 people lost their jobs, so get some perspective please. Some how I get the feeling you asume SOE is just a tiny company. Look it's always bad when people lose their jobs what ever........but to call tht a company is doing  really bad is well........

Then you come into the position that you are forced to lay people off.

Ever heard of progress, yeah sometimes it's bad, often most company's want to make a profit, there for they will cut costs. But hey like I said SOE is evil so again lets not really think.....

Cheers

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by Guillermo197

But somehow, John Smedly is either completely ignorant and clueless (what wouldn't be an unlikely conclusion to be honest) or they felt that they were forced to go this drastic route to survive.

Thats the thing that makes me think many people seem clueless. You speak about J.M like you are 12 years old, Anyone in business regardless how you feel about him doing his job, he is still doing his job, as the man was even 10% of what people make out of him then the man would be long gone, geuss what most of us in how we feel about Smed might be fully off. Lets face it based on a few interviews or perhaps seen on some confernace doesn't make it so that we really know the man. Do I aprove on his business practices, many times I don't, but again I do not have hard data, unless you can provide that to me, please do so so we can make a more factual discussion about SOE and how they handle their business.

I find it odd that you want facts or examples to back up claims the smed is not doing a great job, but you are completely fine with assuming 41 layoffs does not indicate there is a problem and then make an even greater leap of faith to think it somehow shows competence. 

As for smed doing a good job, there are plenty of examples to show his mistakes that you can varify with just a few links, but this tells the whole story.

• SOE was the biggest mmo company on the market a number of years ago.  The undisputed leader.  There are several companies that outpace soe now.  Even independant companies are having more success in mmos.
• Around 2004, soe had over 1 million subscribers as was stated in a job application and just simple math of their press releases.  EQ 550k+, EQ2 250k+, SWG 300k+ and that is not counting their other titles. 
• 2009 and soe would be lucky to have 1/3 of those subscribers and they have added several games to their lineup since then.  I cannot think of one business where the ceo with this type of performance would be considered doing a good job. 

Just to highlight some of the milestones in the last several years

• SWG has become the textbook example of what not to do in an mmo in many ways.  There is no debating that soe screwed up in epic fashion with the largest and one of the most profitable IPs in the world.  They also failed to acquire the follow license to another star wars mmo.  Not exactly something to put on a resume.
• EQ2 was soes best effort.  It was their baby and they were convinced it would rule the market.  1 year later and they were merging servers due to population loss.
• EQ mac, EQ online adventures, Planetside and Matrix are the forgotten mmos that were abandoned. 
• Number of mmos getting paid expansions:2.  Number of mmos closing or not getting paid expansions for years: 6
• Platform publishing was a misserable failure and seems to have vanished.    Not everything was their fault, but they sure screwed up on a number of things, most of which are the sole purpose of what that division was supposed to do.
• Vanguard:  A fine investment made. 
• Free realms.  4 million "unique registered players", 1 populated server.  I don't think we need hard numbers to see how under performing a game with 1 out of 10 servers is doing.
• Complete and utter failure in the eastern market.  Even game, every servers they tried to operate in the eastern market has closed shop.  Interestingly enough smedley thinks he can bring the eastern market revenue model and add it on top of the western market model. 

I think it can be safely said that smed isn't doing a very good job with his mmo efforts.  There is a reason soe was restructed under sony computer entertainment.  I think the recent changes with the companies actions are a result of having someone in charge above smed who has a decent understanding of what soe does.  

Nothing right now says success about soes course for the last several years.  Simply put I am amazed he still has a job, but if either the agency or dcu do not produce I can't imagine he will for long.  

If you think he is doing a good job making games, I have a proposal for you.  Find any interview with smedley where he actually talks about what makes his games fun.  I mean talking about their gameplay and not just a passing blurb as he continues to ramble about revenue.   What you will find is article after article of him talking about revenue, marketing, micro transactions and all things designed to get money.  What you will struggle to find is a man talking about what makes games fun, what makes customers happy subscribers, what really makes great games that people will be interested in playing.  This is the corporate culture he is breeding and the results do not look great so far.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by Guillermo197

But somehow, John Smedly is either completely ignorant and clueless (what wouldn't be an unlikely conclusion to be honest) or they felt that they were forced to go this drastic route to survive.

Thats the thing that makes me think many people seem clueless. You speak about J.M like you are 12 years old, Anyone in business regardless how you feel about him doing his job, he is still doing his job, as the man was even 10% of what people make out of him then the man would be long gone, geuss what most of us in how we feel about Smed might be fully off. Lets face it based on a few interviews or perhaps seen on some confernace doesn't make it so that we really know the man. Do I aprove on his business practices, many times I don't, but again I do not have hard data, unless you can provide that to me, please do so so we can make a more factual discussion about SOE and how they handle their business.

I find it odd that you want facts or examples to back up claims the smed is not doing a great job, but you are completely fine with assuming 41 layoffs does not indicate there is a problem and then make an even greater leap of faith to think it somehow shows competence. 

 

As for smed doing a good job, there are plenty of examples to show his mistakes that you can varify with just a few links, but this tells the whole story.

• SOE was the biggest mmo company on the market a number of years ago.  The undisputed leader.  There are several companies that outpace soe now.  Even independant companies are having more success in mmos.
• Around 2004, soe had over 1 million subscribers as was stated in a job application and just simple math of their press releases.  EQ 550k+, EQ2 250k+, SWG 300k+ and that is not counting their other titles. 
• 2009 and soe would be lucky to have 1/3 of those subscribers and they have added several games to their lineup since then.  I cannot think of one business where the ceo with this type of performance would be considered doing a good job. 

 

Just to highlight some of the milestones in the last several years

• SWG has become the textbook example of what not to do in an mmo in many ways.  There is no debating that soe screwed up in epic fashion with the largest and one of the most profitable IPs in the world.  They also failed to acquire the follow license to another star wars mmo.  Not exactly something to put on a resume.
• EQ2 was soes best effort.  It was their baby and they were convinced it would rule the market.  1 year later and they were merging servers due to population loss.
• EQ mac, EQ online adventures, Planetside and Matrix are the forgotten mmos that were abandoned. 
• Number of mmos getting paid expansions:2.  Number of mmos closing or not getting paid expansions for years: 6
• Platform publishing was a misserable failure and seems to have vanished.    Not everything was their fault, but they sure screwed up on a number of things, most of which are the sole purpose of what that division was supposed to do.
• Vanguard:  A fine investment made. 
• Free realms.  4 million "unique registered players", 1 populated server.  I don't think we need hard numbers to see how under performing a game with 1 out of 10 servers is doing.
• Complete and utter failure in the eastern market.  Even game, every servers they tried to operate in the eastern market has closed shop.  Interestingly enough smedley thinks he can bring the eastern market revenue model and add it on top of the western market model. 

I think it can be safely said that smed isn't doing a very good job with his mmo efforts.  There is a reason soe was restructed under sony computer entertainment.  I think the recent changes with the companies actions are a result of having someone in charge above smed who has a decent understanding of what soe does.  

Nothing right now says success about soes course for the last several years.  Simply put I am amazed he still has a job, but if either the agency or dcu do not produce I can't imagine he will for long.  

If you think he is doing a good job making games, I have a proposal for you.  Find any interview with smedley where he actually talks about what makes his games fun.  I mean talking about their gameplay and not just a passing blurb as he continues to ramble about revenue.   What you will find is article after article of him talking about revenue, marketing, micro transactions and all things designed to get money.  What you will struggle to find is a man talking about what makes games fun, what makes customers happy subscribers, what really makes great games that people will be interested in playing.  This is the corporate culture he is breeding and the results do not look great so far.

 

 

 

Just leave it man you seem not willing to understand me, or I am not able to bring across what I mean.

Originally posted by Reklaw

Just leave it man you seem not willing to understand me, or I am not able to bring across what I mean.

 

I think you are right and I started to speak more in general terms to a general audience rather than to you directly.  Sorry about that.

As to not understanding you maybe, but I do not agree with what you posted and thats all I can go by. 

A very nicely detailed post by Daffid011 that pretty much sums up SOE's and Smedley's past in a nutshell.  Even those arguing gave up after reading that post.  The facts are irrefutable.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by Guillermo197

But somehow, John Smedly is either completely ignorant and clueless (what wouldn't be an unlikely conclusion to be honest) or they felt that they were forced to go this drastic route to survive.

Thats the thing that makes me think many people seem clueless. You speak about J.M like you are 12 years old, Anyone in business regardless how you feel about him doing his job, he is still doing his job, as the man was even 10% of what people make out of him then the man would be long gone, geuss what most of us in how we feel about Smed might be fully off. Lets face it based on a few interviews or perhaps seen on some confernace doesn't make it so that we really know the man. Do I aprove on his business practices, many times I don't, but again I do not have hard data, unless you can provide that to me, please do so so we can make a more factual discussion about SOE and how they handle their business.

I find it odd that you want facts or examples to back up claims the smed is not doing a great job, but you are completely fine with assuming 41 layoffs does not indicate there is a problem and then make an even greater leap of faith to think it somehow shows competence. 

 

As for smed doing a good job, there are plenty of examples to show his mistakes that you can varify with just a few links, but this tells the whole story.

• SOE was the biggest mmo company on the market a number of years ago.  The undisputed leader.  There are several companies that outpace soe now.  Even independant companies are having more success in mmos.
• Around 2004, soe had over 1 million subscribers as was stated in a job application and just simple math of their press releases.  EQ 550k+, EQ2 250k+, SWG 300k+ and that is not counting their other titles. 
• 2009 and soe would be lucky to have 1/3 of those subscribers and they have added several games to their lineup since then.  I cannot think of one business where the ceo with this type of performance would be considered doing a good job. 

 

Just to highlight some of the milestones in the last several years

• SWG has become the textbook example of what not to do in an mmo in many ways.  There is no debating that soe screwed up in epic fashion with the largest and one of the most profitable IPs in the world.  They also failed to acquire the follow license to another star wars mmo.  Not exactly something to put on a resume.
• EQ2 was soes best effort.  It was their baby and they were convinced it would rule the market.  1 year later and they were merging servers due to population loss.
• EQ mac, EQ online adventures, Planetside and Matrix are the forgotten mmos that were abandoned. 
• Number of mmos getting paid expansions:2.  Number of mmos closing or not getting paid expansions for years: 6
• Platform publishing was a misserable failure and seems to have vanished.    Not everything was their fault, but they sure screwed up on a number of things, most of which are the sole purpose of what that division was supposed to do.
• Vanguard:  A fine investment made. 
• Free realms.  4 million "unique registered players", 1 populated server.  I don't think we need hard numbers to see how under performing a game with 1 out of 10 servers is doing.
• Complete and utter failure in the eastern market.  Even game, every servers they tried to operate in the eastern market has closed shop.  Interestingly enough smedley thinks he can bring the eastern market revenue model and add it on top of the western market model. 

I think it can be safely said that smed isn't doing a very good job with his mmo efforts.  There is a reason soe was restructed under sony computer entertainment.  I think the recent changes with the companies actions are a result of having someone in charge above smed who has a decent understanding of what soe does.  

Nothing right now says success about soes course for the last several years.  Simply put I am amazed he still has a job, but if either the agency or dcu do not produce I can't imagine he will for long.  

If you think he is doing a good job making games, I have a proposal for you.  Find any interview with smedley where he actually talks about what makes his games fun.  I mean talking about their gameplay and not just a passing blurb as he continues to ramble about revenue.   What you will find is article after article of him talking about revenue, marketing, micro transactions and all things designed to get money.  What you will struggle to find is a man talking about what makes games fun, what makes customers happy subscribers, what really makes great games that people will be interested in playing.  This is the corporate culture he is breeding and the results do not look great so far.

 

 

 

Sorry for the big quote but that beared repeating.  Spot on about Smed and SOE in general.  Amazing that at one point SOE was near "godlike" in online games and now they are a joke.  I got another email about my old EQ2 account being reopened for 2 weeks, reinstalled (hey free is good) and gave it another try.  After nearly 2 years, i saw NO changes, NO new content, NO updated graphics, nothing.  Almost like it hadn't changed since I left, which knowing SOE probably hadn't.   EQ2 had great potential but didn't hold up.

I also think their very poor rep with customer service hurts them still to this day.  Back in '99 they basically took the attitude of "we're doing what we want with EQ1, we don't care what you think and if you don't like it go play UO".  That worked fine when you only had a couple MMO's to choose from but as more and more came out you saw their total subscribers begin to drop off quickly.