Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by zymurgeist

"Is it maybe because those are the only places the character can get the bonus to their protection for being in cover? They are pre-programmed trigger points? If that is the case the game is flawed. "

 

That's exactly why. It's also what they have been saying since the cover system was announced.

 

Then as I said it is flawed.   People scream the WoW is easy...well don't you worry, because here comes SW:ToR - oh wait...its even easier, they show you where to go and where to stand and who knows what else.   Sad.

Just incase you are right, I hope there is an interface option that says Moron Mode /off

I think the complaint is not so much about how the interface looks (which is indeed rather childish and garish) but instead is about the mechanics. You should not be told where you can go for cover; it should be apparent to you because you can see the terrain. Anything you get behind will protect you, depending on how large/solid it is. I don't see the point of trying to make an entirely new and silly system when FPS combat has worked for years.

You don't want to get shot at? Hide behind something.

Originally posted by Teala

Is it just me or does the new SW:ToR game play seem to totally lead you by the hand during game play.  I recently viewed that vid doc about voice overs and in doing so we got to see some of the game play we'll encounter in game.   After watching it a couple of times I got the feeling the designers of this game think they need to make the game play so linear that they even went so far as to point out the obvious to players by telling them where to go for cover.   Why?   Is it maybe because those are the only places the character can get the bonus to their protection for being in cover?  They are pre-programmed trigger points?   If that is the case the game is flawed.  

Your combat system for smugglers is right up there with the SOE SWG:NGE combat system.    I just have this weird feeling about this.   It is obvious that this games design is so linear that they even programmed where your character should be in order to receive the benefit of cover.   Ugh...I so hate that.

If this game is so instanced - why are the designers not just using true FPS type combat with physics and ballistics and LOS mechanics.   This makes better sense then coming up with some force fed combat mechanisms that a player must trigger by following a linear path while in combat.   

I was sorta getting into this game and was looking forward to play a smuggler, and now, after see the way they intend to force feed game play I am really getting turned off by this.   Sheeesh, the designers might as well hang a sign around our necks that says, "stupid gamer", because basically that is what they are doing.   I've played my share of FPS games and I know how to use cover to my advantage.   If it works in all those other games the way it is suppose to, why can't the designers at Bioware make it work.  

I really just keep seeing the fiasco that was SWG:NGE's psuedo FPS style combat failure and how every shot you made, (as long as you held the target recticle on the enemy) it would track to them - like guided missles.    Imagine blaster bolts like we see in the movies moving like a guided missle to their target.    Yep.  That is how they are in SWG:NGE and I bet you this game is no different.  

If you are going to have ranged combat in this game - just do us all a favor and make it true FPS.  

Look at the screenshot below(thanks to who ever did these) and look that the obvious.  The designers must have programmed in trigger points that your cahracter must be standing on in order for you to gain the benefits of cover.   That is the only thing I can think of for their reasoning behind this system and it is lame.    People say WoW is easy.   LOL!  No...this is easy.   When they literally say you go here, and here and here and our cover system will work they way it was intended.  Anywhere else and you're SOL.

 

OMG...I look at the picture above and just want to cry.    Are designers really thinking we gamers just lack brains?  Does anyone else feel insulted by this?   These games just keep getting dumbed down to the point where we players will just put in the CD, load the game and the game will play itself.   ::shakes her head::

 

OMG Look it's a newb planet! Look, if you don't like indicators, you can always turn them off. If you don't think the game looks like something you want to play, Then don't play it, it'll save people who do from having to listen to the constant whinning for years tbh. Nice to see you're one of the "bandwagon" types still though.

Originally posted by Teala

Is it just me or does the new SW:ToR game play seem to totally lead you by the hand during game play.  I recently viewed that vid doc about voice overs and in doing so we got to see some of the game play we'll encounter in game.   After watching it a couple of times I got the feeling the designers of this game think they need to make the game play so linear that they even went so far as to point out the obvious to players by telling them where to go for cover.   Why?   Is it maybe because those are the only places the character can get the bonus to their protection for being in cover?  They are pre-programmed trigger points?   If that is the case the game is flawed.  

Your combat system for smugglers is right up there with the SOE SWG:NGE combat system.    I just have this weird feeling about this.   It is obvious that this games design is so linear that they even programmed where your character should be in order to receive the benefit of cover.   Ugh...I so hate that.

If this game is so instanced - why are the designers not just using true FPS type combat with physics and ballistics and LOS mechanics.   This makes better sense then coming up with some force fed combat mechanisms that a player must trigger by following a linear path while in combat.   

I was sorta getting into this game and was looking forward to play a smuggler, and now, after see the way they intend to force feed game play I am really getting turned off by this.   Sheeesh, the designers might as well hang a sign around our necks that says, "stupid gamer", because basically that is what they are doing.   I've played my share of FPS games and I know how to use cover to my advantage.   If it works in all those other games the way it is suppose to, why can't the designers at Bioware make it work.  

I really just keep seeing the fiasco that was SWG:NGE's psuedo FPS style combat failure and how every shot you made, (as long as you held the target recticle on the enemy) it would track to them - like guided missles.    Imagine blaster bolts like we see in the movies moving like a guided missle to their target.    Yep.  That is how they are in SWG:NGE and I bet you this game is no different.  

If you are going to have ranged combat in this game - just do us all a favor and make it true FPS.  

Look at the screenshot below(thanks to who ever did these) and look that the obvious.  The designers must have programmed in trigger points that your cahracter must be standing on in order for you to gain the benefits of cover.   That is the only thing I can think of for their reasoning behind this system and it is lame.    People say WoW is easy.   LOL!  No...this is easy.   When they literally say you go here, and here and here and our cover system will work they way it was intended.  Anywhere else and you're SOL.

 

OMG...I look at the picture above and just want to cry.    Are designers really thinking we gamers just lack brains?  Does anyone else feel insulted by this?   These games just keep getting dumbed down to the point where we players will just put in the CD, load the game and the game will play itself.   ::shakes her head::

 

The picture says that it thinks they are in a noob area.  For all we know this is just teaching you how to use the cover system.  Even if it doesn't, I don't understand your point about this making the game easier or "dumbed" down.  I highly doubt they are going to give you a single choice for cover.  There will probably be cover points all over the place, that only smuggler's can see.  You will probably have a choice of multiple different places.  If they are smart, they didn't "program" each cover spot, they made it a subclass of many different objects so that when they are creating these worlds, specific objects inheritly give you the ability to use it as cover.  There is no linearity here, it's just a nice way of showing you where you can take cover.  Can we give BioWare just a little benefit of the doubt?  They've made fantastic games before and have done so consistently.  Let's get some facts together before we start crying doom please?

The game's dev team probably mistaken most player's lack of intelligent thought as a sign of having low learning curve

if you read through this forum you will easily see what I mean.  The stuff people write are easily the most unintellegent thoughts ever, and some are just too funny to even begin to criticize.

U think everybody knows how to play an mmorpg not alone a regular video game? assuming that everybody is as experinced and knows how to play is just stupid. Truth of the matter is that people dont especially if its there first mmo every mmo i play at first i dont really know how to play and ive been playing mmos forever. Who knows maybe u can take that off if u want u dont know so assuming a whole bunch of stuff without knowing anythings is just stupid. maybe later on in the game if somebody gets used to they can take that off we dont know.

This is lame as hell

b

So here we go again with more (I KNOW What TOR WILL BE LIKE) posts.  So raises a question well a few questions

1. So you played TOR and know it is flawed and TOR will be like this cause you know it will? And of course since the game is released and the Dev team on thier own fourms ask the players thier thoughts no way it will change before Launch?

2. You do not like the game so lets complain about it to do what??  Change peoples minds about the game so they can sit here with you and complain about a game day in and out?  If I said that Aion was crap WoW was never popular and AoC was the best release of a MMO in history you all would call me a moron... So I take it this Fourm community are a bunch of Eliteist Gamers that Feels they have to rip each game apart cause they are the HARDCORES...

3. This game is going to be diffrent then anything you played before they said this is not for the HARDCORE MMO fan.  So if your looking for a MMO that has all the MMO elements this game is not for you, so why sit here and complain about it?

Not trying to flame but getting tired of the only thing I see when I come here is SW:Tor Fails/ SW:Tor caters roleplayers and blah blah..  I Think until the first beta comes out and we get some concrete evidence on the game should let the dev team finish up the game.. If you have a concern about the game I suggest posting on the offical web site fourms Dev team is really good about answering questions.

Originally posted by Neosai

The game's dev team probably mistaken most player's lack of intelligent thought as a sign of having low learning curve

if you read through this forum you will easily see what I mean.  The stuff people write are easily the most unintellegent thoughts ever, and some are just too funny to even begin to criticize.

personally what u just said is no use to this forum and just stupid. plz dont criticize urself. this forum is for people to express what they think and u cant tell anybody of what they think is stupid or unimportant what u just said was just stupid and uncalled for. what people r saying is very useful and smart so plz dont make a fool of urself again.

Originally posted by Minion552

So here we go again with more (I KNOW What TOR WILL BE LIKE) posts.  So raises a question well a few questions

1. So you played TOR and know it is flawed and TOR will be like this cause you know it will? And of course since the game is released and the Dev team on thier own fourms ask the players thier thoughts no way it will change before Launch?

2. You do not like the game so lets complain about it to do what??  Change peoples minds about the game so they can sit here with you and complain about a game day in and out?  If I said that Aion was crap WoW was never popular and AoC was the best release of a MMO in history you all would call me a moron... So I take it this Fourm community are a bunch of Eliteist Gamers that Feels they have to rip each game apart cause they are the HARDCORES...

3. This game is going to be diffrent then anything you played before they said this is not for the HARDCORE MMO fan.  So if your looking for a MMO that has all the MMO elements this game is not for you, so why sit here and complain about it?

 

Not trying to flame but getting tired of the only thing I see when I come here is SW:Tor Fails/ SW:Tor caters roleplayers and blah blah..  I Think until the first beta comes out and we get some concrete evidence on the game should let the dev team finish up the game.. If you have a concern about the game I suggest posting on the offical web site fourms Dev team is really good about answering questions.

Amen to that!

I don't understand...  Bioware designs an intuitive GUI with lots of information to help you understand whats going on and you somehow equate this to them insulting your intelligence?

What could possibly be wrong with them designing an user-friendly GUI?

I don't understand why there are so many people looking for something... ANYTHING to complain about. There is so much negativity around these forums, I honestly don't know why I even bother.

I try to stop coming here and reading this drivel, but something just draws me back over and over again...

I honestly believe a lot of you don't know how to play. stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Originally posted by Moirae

Oh for gods sakes. Look, contrary to YOUR belief, gamers are NOT the only people that exist. There ARE people out there who DO NOT know how to play an MMO. Not to mention that every single MMO out there is babied down so much right now that they ALL treat people as though they don't know how to play.

 

Get over it.

So then those of us who are gamers, and have been for some time have to constantly put up with dumbed down games. Just so some who are basically too stupid to turn on a PC by themselves can handle playing a MMO?

The more dumbed down I see this game becoming, the less I am interested in it. Looks like I will be spending more time without a MMO to play than what I figured on.

Originally posted by talismen351

Originally posted by Moirae

Oh for gods sakes. Look, contrary to YOUR belief, gamers are NOT the only people that exist. There ARE people out there who DO NOT know how to play an MMO. Not to mention that every single MMO out there is babied down so much right now that they ALL treat people as though they don't know how to play.

 

Get over it.

 

So then those of us who are gamers, and have been for some time have to constantly put up with dumbed down games. Just so some who are basically too stupid to turn on a PC by themselves can handle playing a MMO?

The more dumbed down I see this game becoming, the less I am interested in it. Looks like I will be spending more time without a MMO to play than what I figured on.

maybe thats a fricking noob area that shows u HOW to actually play the game. Maybe theres a setting in the game that lets shut that on and off and theres still plenty of time for them to change things in the game. We dont know we just dont know. so actaully use ur head think on ur own and not what other people think. We dont know and neither do u so stop insulting and assuming a game is horrible without u even knowing a single thing about the game u dont know and dont argue with me on a game u know nothing about think what u want but dont be insultive to game u know nothing about.

Keep in mind, SWG pre-cu had tooltips that were pretty worthless IMHO, and that dumb little green droid that popped out at the worst times. I had to break out the paper manual a few times in the early days. Being new, and knowing no one, you had to really search for things to do.
You landed on Tattooine and great, what next?
Oh, a mission terminal, whats this shit?
Says clear the speeder lanes.

Cool, there are speeder lanes?
*runs for 10 min*

Oh, looks like a lair with some critters stuck to the side of a hill? meh.
pewpewpewpew
Now for the lair

pewpewpewpew
*explosions* more critters
pewpewpewpew

FANTASTIC EXPLOSTION!*
You have earned 200 pistol XP
You have earned 50 credits!
*great, I think I'm lost, which way was Mos Eisely?*
runs and runs, burts runs
"you slow down"
"you are too tired to run."

You have been incapacitated by a Giant Wort!*
Runs some more.

You have been incapacitated by a Moisture thief
runs some more
You have been incapacitated by Womp Rat
"You are no longer tired"
"Activating cloning"
You have entered Mos Espa
'crickets"
Ok how do I get back to Mos Eisley?
Finds shuttleport
300 credits? OMFG, I guess I shouldn't have bought that Warm hat, I only have 50.
Well, time to earn some money again, rinse repeat, clone zerg all over Tat for 3 days after taking missions that are way above your level. Finally you zerg back into Mos Eisely.

Go to cantina meet some people, they tell you of these things called buffs.
Huh, that wasn't in the manual, how much are those?
10k for health, 2k for mind stats.
errggg.

What about armor?
I can give you some pieces, but you will need to be buffed to wear it, or go see an ID to get your stats migrated.
How much for an ID?
1k-5k.
errggg.
Hmmm, no fast way to earn that kinda money.
Go do missions.
uhh they only pay 100 credits each, take 20 min to finish.
Timesink?
yep

This is the average story for most people within the first few weeks of playing pre-cu. Some people stayed, others said fuck this shit. Thank god for some of the awesome guilds that we had in SWG, since those were full of people willing to help, answer your noob questions, tell you the best places to grind to level fast ect. Not everyone wants to join a guild, and not everyone is a veteran of MMOs.

The thing I see here with TOR is accessibility, not a bad thing. Every game on the market these days has some kind of system in place to help you get playing as fast as possible when you are new, this game will be no different. I'm almost positive, like with other games you will be able to turn off those tooltips.

As for the green Gumby for cover points, I'm willing to bet that will change somewhat. I remember seeing some very old alpha SWG screen shots where the silver UI looked nothing like what the game launched with.
 

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by thexrated

Assumptions...

We do not know whether you see those thing are there as a part of the Smuggler tutorial and/or whether you can turn them on and off. Even if they are a part of the class, I personally do not see a major problem as I have gotten used to them in other games.

At this stage, I hardly see this as a major issue you make it to be.

 

Because if later, let's say this is a tutorial, and these are where the designers say you'll get the benefits and later they turn off the system...then as I stated before your SOL if you do not hit the spot they "programmed" into the game.    That means you the player will be forced to do the obvious - I dunno about you - but when I play an FPS I try not to do the obvious - because 9 times out of 10 that is what the other player expected.   Same goes for any MMORPG.   If I can figure out a way to get past the bad guys to get to my goal - I am going to do it.   I dunno, maybe I am weird in that way, but I always try to take the path of least resistance.  

please tell me this game isnt using some stupid fps system....

i thought it was classic rpg combat, you know auto-target lock, specials to click, etc. I cant play fps games as im a clicker and use arrow keys for movement. i need a 3rd hand to play fps games on a pc

I got no problem with teh cover thing. It's an rpg, not a first person shooter.

Its pretty obvious why they are doing this, it's to cater for the masses to attract an audience who otherwise may have never played an MMORPG before just like WoW attracted players who have not played a computer game since the amstrad CPC 464 or the commodore 64 days ( i know quite a few at work!). Follow the money and you have your answers.  It may suck if you are after a full on MMORPG experience but if you are waiting for this game its better to have no expectations at all and just see what happens. The trend is that any company that has the ability to make a good MMO is following the formula that blizzard  showed can work and who can blame them it made blizzard hundreds of millions of pounds.  If you notice companies that have tried to go against that recently have come up with absolutley crap games  and i'm not holding my breath as I don't think that trend will change any time soon.

Originally posted by Teala

Is it just me or does the new SW:ToR game play seem to totally lead you by the hand during game play.  I recently viewed that vid doc about voice overs and in doing so we got to see some of the game play we'll encounter in game.   After watching it a couple of times I got the feeling the designers of this game think they need to make the game play so linear that they even went so far as to point out the obvious to players by telling them where to go for cover.   Why?   Is it maybe because those are the only places the character can get the bonus to their protection for being in cover?  They are pre-programmed trigger points?   If that is the case the game is flawed.  

Your combat system for smugglers is right up there with the SOE SWG:NGE combat system.    I just have this weird feeling about this.   It is obvious that this games design is so linear that they even programmed where your character should be in order to receive the benefit of cover.   Ugh...I so hate that.

If this game is so instanced - why are the designers not just using true FPS type combat with physics and ballistics and LOS mechanics.   This makes better sense then coming up with some force fed combat mechanisms that a player must trigger by following a linear path while in combat.   

I was sorta getting into this game and was looking forward to play a smuggler, and now, after see the way they intend to force feed game play I am really getting turned off by this.   Sheeesh, the designers might as well hang a sign around our necks that says, "stupid gamer", because basically that is what they are doing.   I've played my share of FPS games and I know how to use cover to my advantage.   If it works in all those other games the way it is suppose to, why can't the designers at Bioware make it work.  

I really just keep seeing the fiasco that was SWG:NGE's psuedo FPS style combat failure and how every shot you made, (as long as you held the target recticle on the enemy) it would track to them - like guided missles.    Imagine blaster bolts like we see in the movies moving like a guided missle to their target.    Yep.  That is how they are in SWG:NGE and I bet you this game is no different.  

If you are going to have ranged combat in this game - just do us all a favor and make it true FPS.  

Look at the screenshot below(thanks to who ever did these) and look that the obvious.  The designers must have programmed in trigger points that your cahracter must be standing on in order for you to gain the benefits of cover.   That is the only thing I can think of for their reasoning behind this system and it is lame.    People say WoW is easy.   LOL!  No...this is easy.   When they literally say you go here, and here and here and our cover system will work they way it was intended.  Anywhere else and you're SOL.

 

OMG...I look at the picture above and just want to cry.    Are designers really thinking we gamers just lack brains?  Does anyone else feel insulted by this?   These games just keep getting dumbed down to the point where we players will just put in the CD, load the game and the game will play itself.   ::shakes her head::

 

They haven't said crap about this game.

So keep your damn pants on and just wait until they release.... you know... ANY gameplay information besides "there's cover points".

I'm sick of everyone trying to make this game a failure, seriously.