(original) SWG vs. ToR

More?

(updating the above as input comes below, not trying to ninja-edit ;) )

What exactly was the point of this?

I'm pretty sure we are all aware that SW:ToR is not the same game as SWG.

But I guess for the mentally challenged who visit these boards, you have given them some profound insight.

Space combat has already been hinted at:

"At the end of the presentation, the point is made that what BioWare have shown is nothing like the MMOs we know of today. Where are the PvP arenas? Or the large, 25+ player raids? Or auction houses? Or, hey, space-combat? Vogel raises an eyebrow. “Oh, we have all that too. We’re just going to wait a little bit to show you that.” That’s a promise that seems too good to be true. Stay tuned. The Old Republic is going to be huge."

http://www.gamesradar.com/pc/star-wars-the-old-republic/preview/star-wars-the-old-republic-hands-on/a-2009070610215182000/g-20081021163120143024/p-4

And yeah, the whole post seems to be made to show how superior SWG was.

I hope SW: TOR is nothing like SWG. I stopped playing SWG at the beta, just before the release. To me, it did not feel like Star Wars.

And I do play games like EVE as well, and enjoy them, but if I play Star Wars, I expect the game be full of action and adventure.

The setting for TOR to me doesn't seem like player housing, as was in SWG, will present itself in TOR.  However, I see TOR using another instanced type system, hopefully, our houses will be represented by our ships, i.g. the Millinium Falcon, Ebon Hawk, etc...

I think it would be pretty cool playing a Bounty Hunter to fly around in my house and inviting party members aboard during space travel or even flashpoint type quests.

Everything else I agree with, however, these are two different games and nobody really expects TOR to follow a sandbox style gameplay; it is already well accepted that TOR will be a story-driven game.  However, if TOR wants to remain to be successful they are going to have to have some kind of kick ass endgame or something to do once we reach our max levels.

Completely diferent games. And still there are old swg players waiting for SW:TOR to be released and wanting for it to be like old SWG.

/sigh

Originally posted by m240gulf

Everything else I agree with, however, these are two different games and nobody really expect TOR to follow a sandbox style gameplay.  It is already well accepted that TOR will be a story-driven game.  However, it TOR wants to remain to be successful they are going to have to have some kind of kick ass endgame or something to do once we reach our max levels.

Well, if the information about the payment model is true,  I do not think Bioware even expect most players play this game like they play a traditional MMO. It will have some of the same features for sure (see my previous post), but since they hinted that there is no subscription model, but you are likely to pay for "adventure packs" instead. Not microstransactions to pay for items and such, but for actual content. Perhaps a new epic quest line or instance. This is speculation, but it would seem to confirm rumors about the sales pitch Bioware did for Lucas Arts about the concept. 

What I expect this to mean is that you will not see huge content patches in every 3-6 months (like in many currents MMO titles), but smaller additions with a shorter time frame.  Along with a larger expansion perhaps every one or two years.

I am not saying anything how good the system will be, just what I expect it to be based on the nuggets of information we have seen.

Originally posted by thexrated

Well, if the information about the payment model is true,  I do not think Bioware even expect most players play this game like they play a traditional MMO. It will have some of the same features for sure (see my previous post), but since they hinted that there is no subscription model, but you are likely to pay for "adventure packs" instead. Not microstransactions to pay for items and such, but for actual content. Perhaps a new epic quest line or instance. This is speculation, but it would seem to confirm rumors about the sales pitch Bioware did for Lucas Arts about the concept. 

What I expect this to mean is that you will not see huge content patches in every 3-6 months (like in many currents MMO titles), but smaller additions with a shorter time frame.  Along with a larger expansion perhaps every one or two years.

I am not saying anything how good the system will be, just what I expect it to be based on the nuggets of information we have seen.

That would actually be pretty cool.  And we already have a game that shows this type of business model can be successful.  Guild Wars.

I know it's not exactly the same, but it's close enough to determine if this type of business model has a place in gaming.

*sighs* Nice going inventing stuff. Whats the point? More doomsday crap? We're tired of hearing it. We don't know the answers to nearly anything you posted except that you THINK thats how its going to be. Very little information has been released.

Get over the alarmist crap. We're all sick of hearing it. If you have nothing else but alarmism to offer, then don't bother posting, out of respect for other posters.

You are an idiot.

quit bringing this game down because your precious SWG was destroyed, quit living in the past you fool.  You have no idea how good this game will be.

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Originally posted by Genleo
You are an idiot.
quit bringing this game down because your precious SWG was destroyed, quit living in the past you fool.  You have no idea how good this game will be.

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As far as we know about TOR, the only thing exceptional or interesting about it is the Bioware story driven aspect. Everything else about it is a steaming pile, and the entire community would do well to not develop unrealistic expectations.

Originally posted by throckmorton

 

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Originally posted by Genleo
You are an idiot.
quit bringing this game down because your precious SWG was destroyed, quit living in the past you fool.  You have no idea how good this game will be.

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Nothing he wrote was incorrect. His point is that SWG fans won't automatically like TOR, which is true.

 

As far as we know about TOR, the only thing exceptional or interesting about it is the Bioware story driven aspect. Everything else about it is a steaming pile, and the entire community would do well to not develop unrealistic expectations.

It is not so much about the comparison he made, but how he made it. This hints at his true motives. He also lists features that he considers important while leaving many out.

Let me put it to perspective what would have been more proper way to do it (examples):

Player driven economy      [probably not much of a player economy - who seriously expect so?]

                                                 Unknown at this point.

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Space (expansion)               Space hinted at - but will it tie in with the linear aspects of ToR?

Jedi was scarce                   Now everyone and his uncle and his nephews will be light-saber swinging

                                                 Jedis more common, as approriate for this time period.

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Few instances, few invisible walls

Instances and no information about invisible walls at this stage are KEY to Bioware's "story" system. Expect to see it everywhere

Instances and invisible walls a possibilityrywhere

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Player housing / cities              Unknown No such elements likely

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I personally hope that Draccon keeps posting these idiot threads. The more he reminds people that this won't be SWG the more the masses will like it. Keep up the good work. /thumbs up.

Originally posted by Draccan

(original) SWG vs. ToR

 

(original) SWG	SW: ToR
Player driven economy	[probably not much of a player economy - who seriously expect so?]
Flexible class system	Fixed classes
Freedom of play	story driven
Player housing / cities	No such elements likely
Non-combat classes	Pure combat focus
Deep crafting and ressource system	Most likely a light crafting system without depth
Space (expansion)	Space hinted at - but will it tie in with the linear aspects of ToR?
Jedi was scarce	Now everyone and his uncle and his nephews will be light-saber swinging
No voice-over	Fully voice-overed
Not so polished - game breaking bugs	Possibly polished, few game breaking bugs (if Bioware lives up to its reputation)
Few instances, few invisible walls	Instances and invisible walls are KEY to Bioware's "story" system. Expect to see it everywhere
PvP everywhere	Limited pvp experience
Item decay	Item decay very unlikely
Death penalty - cloning and item insurance - need for a doctor or long wait to be better	Death penalty unknown - probably just a matter of cloning and short term debuff
Published 2003	Expected 2010-2011
Sandbox	Story-driven (linear aspects?)
Payment: Monthly fee	Unknown payment model

 

More?

 

(updating the above as input comes below, not trying to ninja-edit ;) )

 

 

So to summarize your post.. if I may:

SWG:  Attempted to be an original sandbox experience but was released with far too many bugs and failed when SOE completely changed the game model.

SW:TOR:  You have no idea about what is or is not going to be part of the game because no information has been released besides a few screen shots.

End thread?

Originally posted by ktanner3

I personally hope that Draccon keeps posting these idiot threads. The more he reminds people that this won't be SWG the more the masses will like it. Keep up the good work. /thumbs up.

lol

SWG had it's flaws, you either dealt with it, or you hated it. It's fun to laugh about the old days now, at the time many said WTF is this shit?

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2964183#2964183

the comparion can be summed up in one simple phrase...

virtual world simulator vs. linear theme park

Personally I prefer virtual world simulators but the masses like their entertainment served fastfood style on a tv tray while they put their feet up and watch jerry springer.

doesnt mean I dont enjoy lowbrow linear games too but id prefer something more challenging.

I suspect TOR will be a fantastic game for a month or two. But I dont see myself sitting around waiting to pay for quest pack additions every few months. quests arent the endgame I look for, theyre a means to reach the endgame without a painful grind.

I hate to say it, but having played SWG since pre-cu the game has overall been a failure; Now, that's not to say I dislike it, but it had it's share of problems.

The main problem with SWG is that is had an identity crisis, It was too many things to too many people, and at the end of the day nothing seemed polished or even in a state of completion.

My biggest beef with the game was that It was starwars, and instead of including quality quests, and detailed locales they decided instead to go with this huge world that contained a mess of low quality content. Even back in the day most cantina's in cities and guild villages remained empty giving the whole game this tatooine-esqe feel (although being that Tatooine was the only planet that maintained a full cantina maybe it is not the best metaphor).

Now, having said that, I am exited about TOR I think it will be a new expirence that seems very very polished and interesting. Are they attempting to recreate SWG? no, to do so would be a huge mistake; Are they trying to provide fan's of the series with a quality, immersive expirence? Yes, and I think that fans of  galaxies, both fans of the saga and not will find that the game delievers more then you're expecting or hoping for. 

SWG was always like Barbie Dress up world meets Star Wars. TOR will be like buying the complete roleplaying book series based on The Old Republic, with weapons, armor, classes, stories, dice rolls, skills number, tactical combat moves, important themes ect. 

SWG vets might argue "well in SWG you could do whatever you wanted". You can in TOR as well, but there will still be an important overarching storyline you can follow, things will happen around you that are important to follow, and you might not find yourself saying "I'm bored".

In SWG what was the most important event? Luke sky walker landing in Theed handing out cookies to Rebels? Darth Vader landing in Bestine walking around force choking people who spit on him? Millions of Stormtroopers coming out of the same imperial Shuttle in Anchorhead that can hit you from 200m away? Nightsisters escaping from Dath for the night to kill some unsuspecting dancers in the cantina on Dantooine? LOL what a joke. SWG had no point, that’s the truth, even Raph Koster said he would never make that game ever again. Seems the vets are pretty much left standing alone with their pitch forks and torches for the raid that only a few people will show for. Almost like no one is left to give a care. Good luck finding your game though someday, lololololol.
 

TOR has already shown to have more content than SWG did at launch.  It is also likely to have many times fewer bugs in its current state than SWG did at launch.

SWG was a nice concept with a ton of potential, but it never came anywhere close to achieving a quarter of the potential it had.  Between being poorly coded and having a dev team that seemed to be comprised of ADHD inflicted hummingbirds, SWG was kneecaped from th start.  Unfortunately, the disaster that SWG became has been accepted, by the folks in a position to make games with a similar design, as being caused by the game's design, and not the real reason, incompetence from the top down of everyone involved in making the game.

TOR isn't going to be SWG2.0, nor is it intended to be.  It probably won't measure up to what SWG had the potential to be, but I'll bet it will completely eclipse what SWG actually was.  SWG's legacy will be one of stupid decisions and lost potential.  We'll have to wait and see what TOR's legacy will end up being.

 "Jedi were scarse"

./target      /lol      /fail

What more needs to be said than that? Just before the NGE on my server there was a ridiculous amount of Jedi and considering that on the timeline there are not meant to be many around. Having thousands of Jedi in the wrong time period fails. Jedi works in TOR because they are meant to be in abundance.