I've been playing for a few days and so far am really enjoying it.  I spent most of the time harvesting for money and now I'm going to start focusing on combat.

Before I do anything too big, I want to make sure there isn't some mistake I could make that would permanately screw up my character.  Like leveling something that will gimp another skill.

I'm planning on going 2-H Axe (to be different), Archery, and some healing.

Thanks

Great question OP, I've never really seen anything regarding this, answers should be interesting.

I would think other than the time you lost training up a skill you didn't want need you'd be OK.

dg

There is no way to permanently gimp your character.

In fact if you train up greathammer but you plan on using greatswords, you will still gain some strength and endurance, so you will still help your character at greatswords in a very small way.

Anyone who thinks AV can add skillcaps without allowing us more than one character is disillusion.

the game is actually incredibly carebear, there is nothing bad you can do because you cannot loose any points, nor is there a limit. the worst you can do is spend X hours skilling up something you arent interested in.

Originally posted by warty

the game is actually incredibly carebear, there is nothing bad you can do because you cannot loose any points, nor is there a limit. the worst you can do is spend X hours skilling up something you arent interested in.

I don't see how that is carebear.  If anything it's more hardcore as it forces you to train everything to be in line with others that do the same.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by warty

the game is actually incredibly carebear, there is nothing bad you can do because you cannot loose any points, nor is there a limit. the worst you can do is spend X hours skilling up something you arent interested in.

 

I don't see how that is carebear.  If anything it's more hardcore as it forces you to train everything to be in line with others that do the same.

How can you say it makes it hardcore, if hardcore for you is spending time doing the same task then yes maybe, but its pretty carebear when you will never loose your skills no matter how shit you are in pvp given time you will be on max, hardcore would be like in Lineage 2 back in C1-C2 when you died to your enemies you could literally loose days of XP, if you were at war with enemies hunting you down you would loose alot of XP unless you were the better player and killed your enemies, most people fight naked so dont even start on equipment so what is there to loose when you die? Why would I care about griefing people and then being killed? I can be completely shit in PVP, I go to started areas naked, kill a few noobs then people with what you people call "skill" show up, I die a few times and just find myself some other place to continue training until they go away without having lost anything pretty carebear to me..

Im actually really suprised that their is no XP loss on death in DF. But since their are no levels it would be hard to decide what skills to punish.

If you beleive all the ForumFallers (I dont) the only way to gimp your character is to not macro and AFK Grind and Bloodwall like they say everbody else is doing! I have seen very few AFK'rs in my few days of playing. So the answer is No, you cant gimp your character.

I don't want to argue the whole hardcore or not thing.  Seems like some people won't stop saying carebear until you are only allowed one life in game before your account gets deleted and only have 3 hit points.

What exactly is a bloodwall?  I hear about it all the time.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

 

What exactly is a bloodwall?

players leave a char in a place(next to a player-city wall) and "became" a practice dummy for other players

example

Originally posted by rav3n2

How can you say it makes it hardcore, if hardcore for you is spending time doing the same task then yes maybe, but its pretty carebear when you will never loose your skills no matter how shit you are in pvp given time you will be on max, hardcore would be like in Lineage 2 back in C1-C2 when you died to your enemies you could literally loose days of XP, if you were at war with enemies hunting you down you would loose alot of XP unless you were the better player and killed your enemies, most people fight naked so dont even start on equipment so what is there to loose when you die? Why would I care about griefing people and then being killed? I can be completely shit in PVP, I go to started areas naked, kill a few noobs then people with what you people call "skill" show up, I die a few times and just find myself some other place to continue training until they go away without having lost anything pretty carebear to me..

This does sound as a more "hardcore" mode.

From one side there is full loot FFA PvP, but on the other hand fighting naked is not really punishable because there is no skill loss. So even though full loot does sound hardcore, itis being offset by that no-skill-loss element. People just fight naked with no real loss to their character/skills/attributes.

Now if DF did have XP and/or skill loss to their toons, people would be encouraged to fight equiped - winner take it all, loser loses all items AND gets a hit on his skills/attributes. That would be much more hardcore IMO.

If someone wants even more hardcore, then perma death is THE ultimate-hardcore mode! But, seeing how AV is barely managing 2 servers, i dont see a perma-death server coming out any time soon.

Originally posted by throckmorton

There is no way to permanently gimp your character.

In fact if you train up greathammer but you plan on using greatswords, you will still gain some strength and endurance, so you will still help your character at greatswords in a very small way.

Anyone who thinks AV can add skillcaps without allowing us more than one character is disillusion.

Throckmorton, would you care to elaborate as to how you came to this conclusion?

So as to not high-jack this thread, perhaps in it's own posting. I'll look forward to seeing your thoughts.

To the OP, as far as gimping your character. With there being no cap of any kind in place, I would say NOT training in every weapon skill would be gimping yourself.

Originally posted by cosy

Originally posted by Sabiancym

 

What exactly is a bloodwall?

players leave a char in a place(next to a player-city wall) and "became" a practice dummy for other players

Is that "bloodwall" something that players created or was it part of the game design?

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by cosy

Originally posted by Sabiancym

 

What exactly is a bloodwall?

players leave a char in a place(next to a player-city wall) and "became" a practice dummy for other players

Is that "bloodwall" something that players created or was it part of the game design?

It is player created, to circumvent having to actually go out and play the game.

Instead of logging out, players will just afk park their characters in line against a city wall.

Then anyone that wants to "grind", can use this "wall" of afk characters as targets.

It basically gives someone a 24/7 target to train on, with little to no risk.

Edit: This is pretty much exclusive to clan cities, as far as the afk part.

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by rav3n2

How can you say it makes it hardcore, if hardcore for you is spending time doing the same task then yes maybe, but its pretty carebear when you will never loose your skills no matter how shit you are in pvp given time you will be on max, hardcore would be like in Lineage 2 back in C1-C2 when you died to your enemies you could literally loose days of XP, if you were at war with enemies hunting you down you would loose alot of XP unless you were the better player and killed your enemies, most people fight naked so dont even start on equipment so what is there to loose when you die? Why would I care about griefing people and then being killed? I can be completely shit in PVP, I go to started areas naked, kill a few noobs then people with what you people call "skill" show up, I die a few times and just find myself some other place to continue training until they go away without having lost anything pretty carebear to me..

This does sound as a more "hardcore" mode.

From one side there is full loot FFA PvP, but on the other hand fighting naked is not really punishable because there is no skill loss. So even though full loot does sound hardcore, itis being offset by that no-skill-loss element. People just fight naked with no real loss to their character/skills/attributes.

Now if DF did have XP and/or skill loss to their toons, people would be encouraged to fight equiped - winner take it all, loser loses all items AND gets a hit on his skills/attributes. That would be much more hardcore IMO.

If someone wants even more hardcore, then perma death is THE ultimate-hardcore mode! But, seeing how AV is barely managing 2 servers, i dont see a perma-death server coming out any time soon.

Adding a hard limit to how many times a person could die would be "hardcore".  But no one likes perma-death

---

Originally posted by Respit

---

Originally posted by throckmorton

There is no way to permanently gimp your character.
In fact if you train up greathammer but you plan on using greatswords, you will still gain some strength and endurance, so you will still help your character at greatswords in a very small way.
Anyone who thinks AV can add skillcaps without allowing us more than one character is disillusion.

---

 
Throckmorton, would you care to elaborate as to how you came to this conclusion?
So as to not high-jack this thread, perhaps in it's own posting. I'll look forward to seeing your thoughts.
 
To the OP, as far as gimping your character. With there being no cap of any kind in place, I would say NOT training in every weapon skill would be gimping yourself.
 

---

Because people will train gimp skills like daggers, and then their only option will be to delete their character.

With multiple characters per account we could have alts that each specialize in something different, so not everyone is identical, but major portions of the game aren't closed off to us entirely.

I guess my point is that AV can't just randomly throw in skill caps without dramatically changing how the game works. It wouldn't just be a minor content patch.

Originally posted by Respit

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by cosy

Originally posted by Sabiancym

 

What exactly is a bloodwall?

players leave a char in a place(next to a player-city wall) and "became" a practice dummy for other players

Is that "bloodwall" something that players created or was it part of the game design?

It is player created, to circumvent having to actually go out and play the game.

 

Instead of logging out, players will just afk park their characters in line against a city wall.

Then anyone that wants to "grind", can use this "wall" of afk characters as targets.

It basically gives someone a 24/7 target to train on, with little to no risk.

 

Edit: This is pretty much exclusive to clan cities, as far as the afk part.

Just as an FYI on this subject:
 

Tasos has said a lot about macroing since DarkFall has been released.  In fact, it's one of the most touched on subjects by Tasos.  Yet, it still seems to be very prolific by the majority of DarkFall's users.  Perhaps someone currently playing the game can help with the seemingly disconnect on the subject?  Does anyone know of a single player that was banned for macroing? 

 Here are Tasos' quotes on the subject:

"Unattended macroing and unattended use of autorun and swimming against obstacles are also prohibited. We have taken great measures to limit macroing, to reward the players who are actually playing the game and allow them to catch up easily. We will continue working on making macroing and its effects irrelevant in Darkfall."

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

"Macroing: We are working to address it at its source, but until then we need to enforce our policies. Before we do that we will appeal to players not actually playing the game to log off rather than leaving their character in-game. This will allow more people to be able to enjoy Darkfall instead of unmanned characters taking up server space. If you’re skilling up by not playing the game as it was intended, you will be kicked and repeated offenses will result in a ban. "

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

"Any macroing or disruptive skilling up within the protective radius of the towers is strictly forbidden. Offenders will be kicked. Repeat offenders will be banned."

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

"Anyone macroing within the tower protected areas will be warned once, and then kicked. Repeated violations could result in a ban. Spamming spells or any other disruptive macroing activity within the tower protected areas will be kicked without warning. Repeated violations could result in a ban.

Unattended macroing could get you kicked anywhere in the world depending on the situation. You engage in it at your own risk. "

forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by rav3n2

How can you say it makes it hardcore, if hardcore for you is spending time doing the same task then yes maybe, but its pretty carebear when you will never loose your skills no matter how shit you are in pvp given time you will be on max, hardcore would be like in Lineage 2 back in C1-C2 when you died to your enemies you could literally loose days of XP, if you were at war with enemies hunting you down you would loose alot of XP unless you were the better player and killed your enemies, most people fight naked so dont even start on equipment so what is there to loose when you die? Why would I care about griefing people and then being killed? I can be completely shit in PVP, I go to started areas naked, kill a few noobs then people with what you people call "skill" show up, I die a few times and just find myself some other place to continue training until they go away without having lost anything pretty carebear to me..

This does sound as a more "hardcore" mode.

From one side there is full loot FFA PvP, but on the other hand fighting naked is not really punishable because there is no skill loss. So even though full loot does sound hardcore, itis being offset by that no-skill-loss element. People just fight naked with no real loss to their character/skills/attributes.

Now if DF did have XP and/or skill loss to their toons, people would be encouraged to fight equiped - winner take it all, loser loses all items AND gets a hit on his skills/attributes. That would be much more hardcore IMO.

If someone wants even more hardcore, then perma death is THE ultimate-hardcore mode! But, seeing how AV is barely managing 2 servers, i dont see a perma-death server coming out any time soon.

I'm all for permadeath, but in this stage of MMO evolution, permadeath makes even those that fancy themselves as hardcore break down and cry.

Perma death is nothing new.  Diablo 2 has it, and imagine the unstable isp back then, the high cost of grinding, permadeath in diablo 2 is really very likely.

Some members of our guild has tried out our own perma death race in WoW.  We each rolled an alt, all 5 always grouped, and we all solo and race to 60 (max then), if anyone dies, we all see, he has to delete the character.  The last one standing wins, the first one to hit lvl 60 wins.  At the end of the day, the winner is, surprisingly, a hunter.  He died at lvl 43.

So perma death is nothing new.  Perma death is not really that "hardcore".  Its just a game.  If your character dies, and is erased, go re-roll.  So long as you have fun.

There is no way to gimp yourself in Darkfall.  Example: In Shadowbane, if you trained up two diffrent weapons to use in both hands, you gimped yourself, you wont have enough poitns to max something else, like armor, as an example.  Thats gimping yourself. 

If you train two weapon skills in Darkfall, you can use either one, but not at the same time.  Its just time wasted, does not gimp your character.

Originally posted by -Zeno-

There is no way to gimp yourself in Darkfall.  Example: In Shadowbane, if you trained up two diffrent weapons to use in both hands, you gimped yourself, you wont have enough poitns to max something else, like armor, as an example.  Thats gimping yourself. 

If you train two weapon skills in Darkfall, you can use either one, but not at the same time.  Its just time wasted, does not gimp your character.

That is not necessarily a waste, depending on game design.

I use old EQ as example.  Back then we have to train our weapons skills, 5 points per level.  I started an ogre warrior and I have a lot of weapon skills to train.  When I was young I only have a crap 2hander, a gift from someone, a heavy 2hand maul.  I still keep all the nonsense useless loot, 1 hand sword, club, axe and so on, just to use them whenever I level, so that I can max all weapon skills.  It is not waste.  I am preparing myself for the lucky day a better weapon drops.  When I got the executioner, a big 2hand axe, heheh.

Training in every weapon is not a gimp.  Nor is it a waste, unless there are no weapon itemisation that makes it useful to swap weapon types later on for some reason.  Even if both 2hander axe and maul has same damage, axe maybe good against non plated enemies, while mace is good against plated (DAoC has something like this).  If something similar is involved in the game design, then training everything is good and useful.

The only gimp would come when there is limited maximum training points you can allocate, so that you cannot max everything, or that maxing one place a limit on some opposing school.  Remember the old rpg days?  If you choose life school of magic, you cannot learn anything from the death school of magic.  If you maxed one school of magic (100 I think), then you can only hit 75 for any other schools (once one school hits 75+).  You can only have 3 schools at most.  Same for DnD.  If you wear plate, you cannot cast  magic.  That is the beginning of fun maximin, fun customisation, fun character developement.

DF's worst design is no progression.  No customisation.  Everyone can max everything, every one can max it just by grinding against a tree or bloodwall.  There is no natural progression path, unlike EQ, where you need to level 1 (meaning kill something enough times) to get 5 points to allocate or skill up.  So everyone (everyone is technically level 1 or level whatever as there is no character level) max everything, without a need to plan, just max and max.  There comes the afk macro leveller.

Saying that DF is level-less and hence great is just self-deceiving.  The level is not in the character, the level is in the skills.  Instead of 1 summary level to cap the indiviudal skills, all skills are separately capped, and the race to cap is just translated from levelling 1 to 80 for a character, to levelling 1 to max for sword, club, swim, run, stam ... and endless list.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I've been playing for a few days and so far am really enjoying it.  I spent most of the time harvesting for money and now I'm going to start focusing on combat.

Before I do anything too big, I want to make sure there isn't some mistake I could make that would permanately screw up my character.  Like leveling something that will gimp another skill.

I'm planning on going 2-H Axe (to be different), Archery, and some healing.

 

Thanks

No, there is no way of gimping your character if you just play the game as normal*.

* As any other MMO. Logging in a few hours a week and have fun.

 full looting of your dead body in pvp and pve = your char was born gimp, enjoy!

Originally posted by Orthedos

Perma death is nothing new.  Diablo 2 has it, and imagine the unstable isp back then, the high cost of grinding, permadeath in diablo 2 is really very likely.

Some members of our guild has tried out our own perma death race in WoW.  We each rolled an alt, all 5 always grouped, and we all solo and race to 60 (max then), if anyone dies, we all see, he has to delete the character.  The last one standing wins, the first one to hit lvl 60 wins.  At the end of the day, the winner is, surprisingly, a hunter.  He died at lvl 43.

So perma death is nothing new.  Perma death is not really that "hardcore".  Its just a game.  If your character dies, and is erased, go re-roll.  So long as you have fun.

Well, I guess we have a different understanding of "hardcore". To me, the "hardcore" is how much punishment one receives when they die/fail. Like, in WoW, you don't really lose anything other then time spent getting back on your feet. Thats not much of a penalty. In EQ, you lose a portion of exp and time recovering your corpse. The corpse recovery may also result in more deaths, so EQ is bit more hardcore then WoW.

In Eve, if you die, you lose your ship and everything else on it. Plus your skills if you haven't cloned yourself recently. Add open PvP in 50% of its world and you have a pretty hardcore game.

Now, if you have permadeath with open FFA PvP rule set, theres very little that can be more hardcore then that. You lose all your items, its open FFA PvP, and your char dies permanently. Thats ultra punishment, ultra hardcore. If you do not think that is hardcore, then please explain what is your definition of being hardcore.

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by Orthedos

Perma death is nothing new.  Diablo 2 has it, and imagine the unstable isp back then, the high cost of grinding, permadeath in diablo 2 is really very likely.

Some members of our guild has tried out our own perma death race in WoW.  We each rolled an alt, all 5 always grouped, and we all solo and race to 60 (max then), if anyone dies, we all see, he has to delete the character.  The last one standing wins, the first one to hit lvl 60 wins.  At the end of the day, the winner is, surprisingly, a hunter.  He died at lvl 43.

So perma death is nothing new.  Perma death is not really that "hardcore".  Its just a game.  If your character dies, and is erased, go re-roll.  So long as you have fun.

Well, I guess we have a different understanding of "hardcore". To me, the "hardcore" is how much punishment one receives when they die/fail. Like, in WoW, you don't really lose anything other then time spent getting back on your feet. Thats not much of a penalty. In EQ, you lose a portion of exp and time recovering your corpse. The corpse recovery may also result in more deaths, so EQ is bit more hardcore then WoW.

In Eve, if you die, you lose your ship and everything else on it. Plus your skills if you haven't cloned yourself recently. Add open PvP in 50% of its world and you have a pretty hardcore game.

Now, if you have permadeath with open FFA PvP rule set, theres very little that can be more hardcore then that. You lose all your items, its open FFA PvP, and your char dies permanently. Thats ultra punishment, ultra hardcore. If you do not think that is hardcore, then please explain what is your definition of being hardcore.

it is as hardcore as you care about it.  At the end of the day, you leave a game behind bringing nothing with you.  So losing a character is as painful as you feel it to be.

Sounds circular?  Look at it this way.  If you play WoW or even Diablo in china in an internet cafe, you play in a common account.  You created a character and play for as long as you like.  Then eventually you need to go to bed.  During the lull, someone else can patronage that "internet cafe".  If the account, the common account, the only account in that internet cafe is full, for that particular server, then this new customer will find room by removing a character.  Or maybe he likes to play existing character and play it the way he wants, allocating your skill points (in Diablo, you cannot respec).  So basically, its some form of perman death.

Losing a character is no big deal.  You enjoyed playing it as far as it carries.  It dies, you go play another, or stop playing and do something else.  Even if the character don't die, you would one day move onto another game.  Its nothing hardcore, its just a game.

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by Orthedos

Perma death is nothing new.  Diablo 2 has it, and imagine the unstable isp back then, the high cost of grinding, permadeath in diablo 2 is really very likely.

Some members of our guild has tried out our own perma death race in WoW.  We each rolled an alt, all 5 always grouped, and we all solo and race to 60 (max then), if anyone dies, we all see, he has to delete the character.  The last one standing wins, the first one to hit lvl 60 wins.  At the end of the day, the winner is, surprisingly, a hunter.  He died at lvl 43.

So perma death is nothing new.  Perma death is not really that "hardcore".  Its just a game.  If your character dies, and is erased, go re-roll.  So long as you have fun.

Well, I guess we have a different understanding of "hardcore". To me, the "hardcore" is how much punishment one receives when they die/fail. Like, in WoW, you don't really lose anything other then time spent getting back on your feet. Thats not much of a penalty. In EQ, you lose a portion of exp and time recovering your corpse. The corpse recovery may also result in more deaths, so EQ is bit more hardcore then WoW.

In Eve, if you die, you lose your ship and everything else on it. Plus your skills if you haven't cloned yourself recently. Add open PvP in 50% of its world and you have a pretty hardcore game.

Now, if you have permadeath with open FFA PvP rule set, theres very little that can be more hardcore then that. You lose all your items, its open FFA PvP, and your char dies permanently. Thats ultra punishment, ultra hardcore. If you do not think that is hardcore, then please explain what is your definition of being hardcore.

 

it is as hardcore as you care about it.  At the end of the day, you leave a game behind bringing nothing with you.  So losing a character is as painful as you feel it to be.

Sounds circular?  Look at it this way.  If you play WoW or even Diablo in china in an internet cafe, you play in a common account.  You created a character and play for as long as you like.  Then eventually you need to go to bed.  During the lull, someone else can patronage that "internet cafe".  If the account, the common account, the only account in that internet cafe is full, for that particular server, then this new customer will find room by removing a character.  Or maybe he likes to play existing character and play it the way he wants, allocating your skill points (in Diablo, you cannot respec).  So basically, its some form of perman death.

Losing a character is no big deal.  You enjoyed playing it as far as it carries.  It dies, you go play another, or stop playing and do something else.  Even if the character don't die, you would one day move onto another game.  Its nothing hardcore, its just a game.

From my take on it, Orthedos is saying that perma-death is only hardcore if you considered it "WORK" to get your character where it's at.  If you had fun, then it's not a big deal if you lose it because you can have fun again getting it back.
 

In essence, if you had fun playing the character, then big deal if it's gone.  Perma-death is no more hardcore than any other feature in that scenario.

If you are forcing yourself to "WORK" towards an eventual point or goal where you think you might start having fun, but you lose your character before you get to that point... then yeah... perma-death would be very hardcore.

I agree with him in that regards.  Play a game (whatever that game is) to have fun, then no matter what happens you will have enjoyed your gaming.  If you regard what you are doing in a game as "WORK"... that doesn't seem like it would be very fun.  Hopefully that makes sense.