Trending Games | Wizard101 | World of Warcraft | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | Elder Scrolls Online

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,899,350 Users Online:0
Games:751  Posts:6,268,078
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Which is harder, grouping in an MMORPG, or playing Solo? (for leveling or skilling up, not raiding, obviously you can't solo raids)

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search
48 posts found
  Torik

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2326

7/20/09 12:51:26 PM#21
Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Simple question. Which is harder? Grouping in an MMORPG or playing Solo?

For some clarification, we are talking about games in existence today, NOT some imaginiary game not yet released.

Examples would include UO, AC, EQ, DAoC, WoW, Lotro, AoC, CoH, and other popular P2P mmorpgs (sorry RMT players this doesn't apply to you) that have managed to stick around for over a year.

I think this may be the crux of the biscuit, why I can't understand solo players, and they can't understand my position. I think solo players actually think what they are doing, playing the game solo, is HARDER than getting a group together and maintaining it.

If that's the case, then their arguments suddenly make sense. I'm doing something HARDER than what you are doing, so I want more rewards than you. I should make xp just as fast or faster, and get just as good loot or BETTER, because I"m doing the hard thing, and soloing the game! 

My position is that grouping is 10x harder than playing solo. YOu have to travel to meet each other, if you have an existing group you have to arrange meeting times, you have to wait on bio breaks, players going link dead, negotiate where to go, what to do, split loot, AND you have to work as a team. It's not just important what I am doing, I also have to pay attention to what you are diong and the rest of the group. You also have to adjust what you do, depending on the size of the group. If we get one more party member, we can go there, if we lose one we can't stay here, etc. The solo player never worries about that, just goes where they can solo, and that never changes.

The hard part is in managing the group. I think solo players are approaching the discussion as if there was an instant "group" button, you push that, and then mow through mobs, but grouping in reality doesn't work like that.

This may be the sticking point. You'll never convince me that playing solo is easier than grouping, and if I'll never convince you that grouping is harder than playing solo, there's no real common ground for discussion, since we are approaching the topic with two completely opposite views of the facts.

 

 

'Easier' and 'harder' are pretty lousy words to use.  Fact of the matter is that the worse player you are, the harder the content is.  Similarly bad groups have to work harder at beating a fight then good groups.  Does that mean that bad players should get better rewards than good players because the fight was 'harder' for them?

The problems you mention with travel time, bio break, loot issue, etc to me are the same issue.   The better your group is, the less of a problem this becomes.  Heck, in really good groups that stuff is so trivial that it can take less time then when the individual players start a solo playing session. 

Fact is that there are many accomplishments in the game that are pretty much solo activities that only a few really dedicated players will do that give out trivial rewards while group content that good players consider to be trivial gives solid reward that open up new content.

In the end in a MMORPG we are rewarded for RESULTS and not how hard the fight was actually for the players or how long it took you to straighten out the logistics.  How 'hard' or 'easy' the fight was only determines the timeline for getting the rewards.  Better players get rewarded by getting the reward faster while bad players take a while to get the reward if they can complete the challenge in the first place. 

I am all for rewarding good group play but see little reason to give preferance to bad to average groupers over good solo players.

  Faelan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/13/04
Posts: 831

Oops - looks like I'm an internet dog who somehow learned how to type. What has the world come to?

7/20/09 12:58:32 PM#22

It depends on the MMO.

I found oldschool EQ very hard to solo. Compared to my experiences with WoW, I'd say soloing in EQ was harder than grouping or even raiding is in WoW.

Because of the extreme downtime in EQ (5+ minutes to regain mana), I moved to DAOC (pre-TOA) which was fairly doable in terms of soloing, but was much less efficient than grouping. It was a slow but steady grind.

Soloing in pre-CU SWG was so easy thanks to overpowered buffs that a lot of us were begging to be nerfed because it was just retarded. Whenever I saw a patrol of some 20 stormtroopers, I'd just laugh and jump at them, setting up a spam queue of the same attack ability being repeated, then go grab a snack. The real challenge for me was in crafting and that actually took a lot of interacting and coordination with other people in a non-grouping kinda way. I would say that was harder than raiding in WoW.

EQ2... well... I've only grouped in that game once.... would you believe it? So I can't really tell, but soloing was a bit frustrating shortly after release and quite enjoyable these days. I'm guessing that grouping in EQ2 is similar in difficulty to WoW.

Soloing in VG was a bit tougher than soloing in WoW/EQ2, but not too hard if I limited myself to safe mobs/areas. Finding challenging mobs and getting away with soloing them was a blast though. Grouping was a surprisingly pleasant experience as well (when things weren't bugged to hell). Not as hard as soloing, interestingly enough, but still fun due to the group/class dynamics in the game. If it wasn't for the fact that finding groups in VG is somewhat difficult except at max. level due to the low population now, I would consider rejoining just for that experience.

When it comes to WoW, I would say that soloing is easier but only because it's so darn difficult to find a group of people that you can actually enjoy the game with. Communication skills, ability to understand and general respect for other people seems almost completely absent in WoW at times. As a result, I prefer to solo in WoW even though it means giving up on so much of the game and the rewards that go along with it. Grouping in WoW is not challenging to me, it is outright frustrating most of the time. The one time that I did manage to find a guild of relatively cool people (which then imploded due to guild drama caused by the not so cool people) whom I did some raiding with, it turned out to be a somewhat simple but time consuming affair. Logistics was the only thing that made it "hard", the rest was almost as easy as following a recipe while listening to the TV chef going through it.

LOTRO feels similar to WoW, so I'm not gonna say much about that. Never tried raiding in LOTRO though.

EVE is a mixed bag. PvE is fairly easy to solo, especially if you run multiple accounts. Due to the relatively low system requirements and ease of which you can control multiple accounts, it's possible to do things that are impossible or just impractical in pure solo mode. PvP on the other hand, is mostly off limits since blobs rule the cosmos in EVE. I suppose you could consider fleet warfare the EVE equivalent to raiding. I know, it's a very rough simplification.

I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

  Ihmotepp

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/28/08
Posts: 14557

 
OP  7/20/09 1:30:37 PM#23
Originally posted by SwampRob

If the title of this thread had been "Which is more annoying?", then I'd agree with you.

Having to meet people:  Do you actually think it's difficult, or just annoying and time-consuming?


Having to wait for/replace people who dc:   Difficult, or just annoying and time-consuming?

Having to split/decide who gets what loot:   difficult, or just annoying and time-consuming?

See my point here?   None of the things you mentioned are in the least little bit difficult.  

 

Lots of people like some level of difficulty in their games.    Not nearly as many have the patience for annoying and time-consuming activities in a game they are paying for.

Now, have you ever played a single-player game with challenging content?   I guarantee those exist.   Now, imagine that kind of content put in an MMO.    Voila, we have challenging solo content in an MMO.   Yes, it can be done.

 

 

Interesting content yes, challenging content? No. Annoying and time consuming? Sure, you can make an RPG annoying and time consuming. But challenging? How?

I"ve played some puzzle games, action games, and FPS games that were very challenging, to the point where I couldn't beat them in fact.

Can you ever lose an RPG? If a win is pre-determined, how is that challenging exactly? Was there ever a point when I didn't think I'd make it through KOTOR? No, not really.

I walk up to the Mob, it beats me. I go skill up, level up, or gear up beating lower skillled or leveled mobs, then come back and beat this mob, rinse repeat till the game is over.

Do I find that challenging? Not really. It can be fun if the story line is good, if the art work is good, if the game mechanics are fun, etc., but challenging? No, I can't think of a single player game like that unless it involved puzzles. Those can be so challenging I can't solve them without a walkthrough.

But as far as I know, most  MMORPGs don't have puzzles, unless you're talking about Puzzle Pirates. Not that I want Puzzles, they are to challenging for me.

  Artursl

Novice Member

Joined: 12/11/05
Posts: 24

7/20/09 1:35:56 PM#24

IMO you can't just say "one is harder than the other", it depends on the game and on the play style. Sometimes for casual players that just wan't to level at their own pace it's easier to solo, while those that wan't to level up quickly are better off with finding a group and running through the quests.

If we talk about content type - Grouping content is usually harder, because it not only needs individual skill, but also coordination of the group and some tactics.

  Faelan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/13/04
Posts: 831

Oops - looks like I'm an internet dog who somehow learned how to type. What has the world come to?

7/20/09 2:00:55 PM#25
Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Interesting content yes, challenging content? No. Annoying and time consuming? Sure, you can make an RPG annoying and time consuming. But challenging? How?

I"ve played some puzzle games, action games, and FPS games that were very challenging, to the point where I couldn't beat them in fact.

Can you ever lose an RPG? If a win is pre-determined, how is that challenging exactly? Was there ever a point when I didn't think I'd make it through KOTOR? No, not really.


 

Just because nobody has done it doesn't mean that it can't be done. You're starting to sound an awful lot like the people back in the day saying that it was impossible to break the sound barrier. Could it be that single player RPGs lack challenge because the developers feel that telling a story and having you progress through it is more important than making it near impossible to get past the first guard you meet in the game?

Anyway, I seem to remember Bard's Tale and Dungeon Master as being quite the challenge. Maps had to be made all by hand and you had no quest logs to help you remember. Very similar to EQ in the beginning. Just figuring out what you were supposed to do and find your way there was quite an accomplishment. There was also no google available to look up the answers. The best you could hope for was a cheat code or a walkthrough in a magazine. I got raped by the monsters in Dungeon Master more times than I can remember. I even resorted to throwing the bones and gear of my dead partymembers at the monsters while trying to kite them. I remember analyzing my save games in Bard's Tale with a hex editor and writing a program to edit them just so that I could complete it. Very good times indeed.

I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

  Ihmotepp

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/28/08
Posts: 14557

 
OP  7/20/09 2:04:42 PM#26
Originally posted by Faelan
Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Interesting content yes, challenging content? No. Annoying and time consuming? Sure, you can make an RPG annoying and time consuming. But challenging? How?

I"ve played some puzzle games, action games, and FPS games that were very challenging, to the point where I couldn't beat them in fact.

Can you ever lose an RPG? If a win is pre-determined, how is that challenging exactly? Was there ever a point when I didn't think I'd make it through KOTOR? No, not really.


 

Just because nobody has done it doesn't mean that it can't be done. You're starting to sound an awful lot like the people back in the day saying that it was impossible to break the sound barrier. Could it be that single player RPGs lack challenge because the developers feel that telling a story and having you progress through it is more important than making it near impossible to get past the first guard you meet in the game?

Anyway, I seem to remember Bard's Tale and Dungeon Master as being quite the challenge. Maps had to be made all by hand and you had no quest logs to help you remember. Very similar to EQ in the beginning. Just figuring out what you were supposed to do and find your way there was quite an accomplishment. There was also no google available to look up the answers. The best you could hope for was a cheat code or a walkthrough in a magazine. I got raped by the monsters in Dungeon Master more times than I can remember. I even resorted to throwing the bones and gear of my dead partymembers at the monsters while trying to kite them. I remember analyzing my save games in Bard's Tale with a hex editor and writing a program to edit them just so that I could complete it. Very good times indeed.

 

The original post states specifically we are discussing existing MMORPGs, not imiginary games that are not yet released.

  Faelan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/13/04
Posts: 831

Oops - looks like I'm an internet dog who somehow learned how to type. What has the world come to?

7/20/09 2:31:51 PM#27
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by Faelan
Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Interesting content yes, challenging content? No. Annoying and time consuming? Sure, you can make an RPG annoying and time consuming. But challenging? How?

I"ve played some puzzle games, action games, and FPS games that were very challenging, to the point where I couldn't beat them in fact.

Can you ever lose an RPG? If a win is pre-determined, how is that challenging exactly? Was there ever a point when I didn't think I'd make it through KOTOR? No, not really.


 

Just because nobody has done it doesn't mean that it can't be done. You're starting to sound an awful lot like the people back in the day saying that it was impossible to break the sound barrier. Could it be that single player RPGs lack challenge because the developers feel that telling a story and having you progress through it is more important than making it near impossible to get past the first guard you meet in the game?

Anyway, I seem to remember Bard's Tale and Dungeon Master as being quite the challenge. Maps had to be made all by hand and you had no quest logs to help you remember. Very similar to EQ in the beginning. Just figuring out what you were supposed to do and find your way there was quite an accomplishment. There was also no google available to look up the answers. The best you could hope for was a cheat code or a walkthrough in a magazine. I got raped by the monsters in Dungeon Master more times than I can remember. I even resorted to throwing the bones and gear of my dead partymembers at the monsters while trying to kite them. I remember analyzing my save games in Bard's Tale with a hex editor and writing a program to edit them just so that I could complete it. Very good times indeed.

 

The original post states specifically we are discussing existing MMORPGs, not imiginary games that are not yet released.

 

Read your own post. You were making a response regarding single player RPGs. Trying to hide behind your initial post stating that we are discussing existing MMOs only isn't going to help you out of this one. If you set rules and expect others to follow them, you also have to follow the rules yourself. If you only want to discuss existing MMOs, then don't even bother bringing up anything else, nor respond to posts bringing it up. If you set rules and expect others to follow them, you also have to set an example and follow the rules yourself, otherwise it becomes impossible to take you serious... although... I think we already reached that point a while ago, didn't we?

I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

  Reklaw

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

7/20/09 2:55:11 PM#28

None is easy, none is hard, all depends on your playstyle/motivation/gamespirit.

  Cephus404

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

7/20/09 3:47:43 PM#29

Excluding difficulties in actually forming a group from consideration, I'd say that soloing is a much harder way to go.  In a team, you can rely on others if you get into trouble.  If you solo, you're entirely responsible for your own wellbeing.  You also have to be a much more rounded character, you cannot be narrowly specialized in any area because it will limit your skills in others.  You need to be good at what you do, whereas in a team, other members can make up for weaknesses in each member and still succeed.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  kiddyno071

Novice Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 1331

7/20/09 3:50:39 PM#30
Originally posted by Cephus404

Excluding difficulties in actually forming a group from consideration, I'd say that soloing is a much harder way to go.  In a team, you can rely on others if you get into trouble.  If you solo, you're entirely responsible for your own wellbeing.  You also have to be a much more rounded character, you cannot be narrowly specialized in any area because it will limit your skills in others.  You need to be good at what you do, whereas in a team, other members can make up for weaknesses in each member and still succeed.


 

  My carpal tunnel thanks you.

  Vallanor

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 103

7/20/09 5:14:53 PM#31

I don't think it's possible to say which is easier from a general sense.  If you're soloing content designed for your level or below, then it's not difficult at all (mind-numbingly easy, actually).  If you're soloing content designed for players above your level and/or soloing content meant for groups, then it is certainly difficult.  Similar situation with grouping: attempting encounters above your level range is difficult, while lower level encounters are very easy.

However, in specific games, I think it is certainly a fair question.  Using EQ2 as my point of reference (haven't spent the most time in it), I would give the difficulty edge to grouping.  It has been my experience (although I've not played much in nearly two years) that when facing content designed for a soloer at the appropriate level, there is typically very little challenge.  When facing appropriate-level content designed for a group while grouping, there is often more challenge.  Particularly in high-level scenarios, grouping is more difficult.  I remember running through Unrest once or twice a week before the level cap increased and being distinctly aware of the fact that if any member of the group failed to do their part, we could easily die.  When soloing, however (which I did a fair amount of), it seemed more difficult to fail.  This could be due to no longer relying on others for my survival or due to the content just being easier, I can't say for sure.

I would agree with an above poster that organizing and maintaining a group doesn't exactly constitute difficulty.  It's a necessary process that is almost always frustrating, but not difficult.

Anyway to sum up my viewpoint:  In general, it is impossible to say whether grouping or soloing is easier.  In specific games, there is more than likely one correct (but debatable) answer.

  User Deleted
7/20/09 6:07:05 PM#32

I think pretty much everything should be soloable at max skill, level, except a small percentage of mobs. Those can be solo'd using stradegy though. But you do it in groups to keep from getting PK'd and your stuff looted. No arguements about solo or grouping or who's got best gear.  Appearently being killed by other players as opposed to mobs is the most horrendous thing ever for alot of people. I can understand i guess. When all there is to do in a game is quest, grind, level and loot..it's hard to make content for all that. Everyone begging the devs for theirs.

In swg alot of the soloers were happy just to do resource harvesting, or skinning animals, or crafting. Groupers sold their loot to them to make their craftables better. Everything was important. You could be the richest person on the server with all the best gear, and never grouped once. But swg was a fail they say. Begging for devs attention is better hehe.

I dont care much for the current model. So i say piss em all off so it goes away:)

  zaxxon23

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/06
Posts: 1285

7/20/09 7:01:36 PM#33

Soloing multiplayer dungeons is vastly more challenging than grouping.  Soloing individual mobs is obviously not as challenging.  You do realize that providing grouping and solo OPTIONS in really the key here.  There is no right answer in the solo vs grouping debate.  Beyond the fact that solo vs group is really a shade of gray rather than black and white, you simply have many different playstyles to deal with.  Pigeonholing people into playstyles is retarded, and that's all these stupid debates ever try to do.  Pigeonhole someone into your preferred playstyle.  It will never work.

  Nifa

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 327

You can get more with a kind word & a 2x4 than you can with just a kind word

7/21/09 12:21:04 AM#34
Originally posted by zaxxon23

...providing grouping and solo OPTIONS in really the key here.  There is no right answer in the solo vs grouping debate. 

I agree with the quote above.

For me, there is no real difference in difficulty between grouping and soloing: as has been pointed out already, when soloing, I am wholly responsible for whatever goes wrong or right.  When grouping, I may be in a group with the most obnoxious player ever to glance at a keyboard, a player who doesn't know the first bloody thing about their class and who causes a wipe from hell, but who thinks that they are the be-all and end-all of the MMO world.  Either situation is equally difficult to me, but for different reasons.  If I go into a group dungeon solo and I get my butt handed to me by the level 99999 Elite, well, that's on me and maybe I should have leveled up a bit more and used better tactics and strategy...but at least I learn from what I did wrong.  When in the same instance/dungeon with a group full of folks, half of whom are AFK and 1/4 of whom are inept and have no idea how to play their class, not only does the group wipe, but very little is learned...except not to group with those people again.

Neither method of play is better or easier than the other in my opinion.  There are difficulties inherent to each type of play.  For me, the issue is that many games force me to do one or the other in order to advance or complete a quest or get a piece of armor/weapon that could potentially be useful to me, and that is where I have the problem.  In my opinion, anything that can be gained by grouping should be obtainable by solo play (albeit with a great deal more time and effort expended) and vice-versa.

In my opinion, we're talking about video games here...it seems to me that players should be focused more on what is fun to them rather than focusing on who "works" harder on something that is designed to entertain.

Firebrand Art

"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman

Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr

  svann

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/06
Posts: 1634

7/21/09 7:36:07 AM#35

Grouping is easier, except for the tedium of forming up.  For the tedium of grinding levels and skilling up solo is much more boring thus more difficult.  And for the content obviously soloing is more difficult than grouping.  For early content grouping it is trivially easy and soloing more difficult.  For late game content soloing is mostly impossible.

  patrikd23

Novice Member

Joined: 10/17/04
Posts: 1198

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

7/21/09 7:39:42 AM#36

If a mmorpg missed either solo play or group i dont think its worth the effort. Besides they people making that game that would be without one of them misses out on 50% of the people that would play it if they had it.

  Ihmotepp

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/28/08
Posts: 14557

 
OP  7/21/09 8:21:18 AM#37
Originally posted by Nifa

  In my opinion, anything that can be gained by grouping should be obtainable by solo play (albeit with a great deal more time and effort expended) and vice-versa.


 

In theory I think everyone, solo players and groupers, will agree with this.

The problem is when you start to put in concrete rules to determine exactly how much more time and effort something takes to get solo as opposed to grouping.

The best solution would probably be something where the groupers think it's just slightly to easy for the solo player, but are willing to live with it, and the solo player thinks it's slightly to easy for the groupers, but is willing to live with it.

Some middle ground where neither is completely satisfied, but neitehr is completely upset either.

I still like the SWG set up where some materials can only be gained by grouping, but anyone can use those materials or buy any sort of gear so no one is stopped from getting any item in the game.

  Samuraisword

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/06
Posts: 2120

Gamers who use RMT are like athletes who use steroids

7/21/09 9:22:10 AM#38

OP is a little confused.

He is confusing the ease of playing as an individual with the difficulty of combat.

Logically it is easier to take down the same mob with multiple people than solo.

A soloer has to depend on their skillset only and there is no one to heal them or tank for them, or rez them if things go badly.

A soloer eats the experience loss penalty for dying every time.

Groups once formed, can take down mobs quicker and more efficiently with less downtime and risk of dying.

The trade off between grouping and solo is ease and it exists for a reason.

A soloer is their own boss and does what they want when they want and is self sufficient which is very attractive to some of us while grouping can be a pain in the arse, but the opportunity cost is that groups can defeat more difficult mobs and therefore get better rewards in every MMOG that exists.

Most soloers understand the trade off, we just don't want game mechanics created to deny the soloing option.

Artificial no-drop no-trade tags are one way developers pooh pooh soloers by trying to coerce them to group and raid.

If I am a soloer/crafter who has earned wealth legitimately in-game, then I should be allowed to trade for raid and high level group drops in an open marketplace.

Don't create dungeons or instances that refuse soloers to enter.

Don't link mobs together to make it impossible to pull them solo.

  Ihmotepp

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/28/08
Posts: 14557

 
OP  7/21/09 12:05:36 PM#39
Originally posted by Samuraisword

OP is a little confused.

He is confusing the ease of playing as an individual with the difficulty of combat.

Logically it is easier to take down the same mob with multiple people than solo.

A soloer has to depend on their skillset only and there is no one to heal them or tank for them, or rez them if things go badly.

A soloer eats the experience loss penalty for dying every time.

Groups once formed, can take down mobs quicker and more efficiently with less downtime and risk of dying.

The trade off between grouping and solo is ease and it exists for a reason.

A soloer is their own boss and does what they want when they want and is self sufficient which is very attractive to some of us while grouping can be a pain in the arse, but the opportunity cost is that groups can defeat more difficult mobs and therefore get better rewards in every MMOG that exists.

Most soloers understand the trade off, we just don't want game mechanics created to deny the soloing option.

Artificial no-drop no-trade tags are one way developers pooh pooh soloers by trying to coerce them to group and raid.

If I am a soloer/crafter who has earned wealth legitimately in-game, then I should be allowed to trade for raid and high level group drops in an open marketplace.

Don't create dungeons or instances that refuse soloers to enter.

Don't link mobs together to make it impossible to pull them solo.

 I think you have to admit, that if the Devs dont' link mobs and let you pull everything solo, you have completely destroyed the grouping game.

It may not have been clear in the Original Post, but the comparision was never meant to be solo or group fighting the exact same MOb.\

It was solo fighting the toughest mob they could handle without dieing, vs. Group fighting the toughest mob they could without dieing.

A group has no one to rez them in a party wipe. You've never grouped and had the party get wiped?

Groups once formed....

YOu act as if there is a magic "group" button, and all members of the party are magically transported to the exact location they need to be with no travel time, and requires no time to contact each other. This doesn't actually happen in any game.

  Torik

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2326

7/21/09 12:37:49 PM#40
Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

 I think you have to admit, that if the Devs dont' link mobs and let you pull everything solo, you have completely destroyed the grouping game.

It may not have been clear in the Original Post, but the comparision was never meant to be solo or group fighting the exact same MOb.\

It was solo fighting the toughest mob they could handle without dieing, vs. Group fighting the toughest mob they could without dieing.

A group has no one to rez them in a party wipe. You've never grouped and had the party get wiped?

Groups once formed....

YOu act as if there is a magic "group" button, and all members of the party are magically transported to the exact location they need to be with no travel time, and requires no time to contact each other. This doesn't actually happen in any game.

 

Could you stop with the hyperbole, please.  Pulling solo mobs is just as big a part of the 'grouping game' as the 'solo game' so it can hardly be used to 'destroy the grouping game'.

I really do not see why you are so focusing on what are essentailly solo aspects of group play as making grouping so much harder.  A soloer must spend time traveling to the zone where he/she wants to do content just as a grouper does.  If a soloer wipes he/she takes a penalty and might have to do a corpse run.  They are all essentially solo tasks that also apply to a group.  Heck with something like summoning stones in WoW a group traveling to its destination actually has an easier time of it then a soloer.

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search