Trending Games | ArcheAge | WildStar | Archlord 2 | Elder Scrolls Online

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,799,789 Users Online:0
Games:725  Posts:6,196,058
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why Group?

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search
125 posts found
  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

7/19/09 12:00:04 PM#61
Originally posted by Eronakis
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by CactusmanX

And I don't mean why do you group but what should be the reason to group in an MMO, other than social

 

No one needs to be in a group to socialize. You can chat in the guild channel, or global channel, and socialize all day long without grouping.

If a single person can do it, who cares if a group makes it easier? That sounds like a game where it's pointless to group, IMO.

I don't think grouping should be purely "social".

I like grouping for the EXACT reasons you said you didn't like grouping, the combat mechanics.

Also, in a game where grouping is NECESSARY, not social it changes the entire community. If you're an asshat then people dont' want you in the group, and you actually suffer  for that. With grouping being purely an optional social thing, who cares if people don't want you in a group because you're an asshat? You don't need them anyway.

Your post strikes me as basically, I like solo games, don't want to be required to group, here's some dumb "social" thing the groupers can do so they will shut up and let me solo the game. As a grouper, I'd have zero interest in this game.

I think your one the very few on here who comprehends whats going on here. The people who you argue with (the majority), are the new crowd to mmos. The ones played WoW first. They dont understand the grouping. I bet ya 5 bucks that if wow never went mainstream and it never had those colossal subcriber base, we wouldnt have this arguement on this forum right now.


 

People arguing about soloability in an mmo or should an mmo be solo friendly existed before WoW.   There used to be debates about it all the time in EQ.  Especially considering how viable some classes could solo some mobs such as a wizard or bard compared to trying to do anything like that as a cleric.

Can I have my five bucks now?

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Ilvaldyr

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/08
Posts: 2163

7/19/09 12:02:10 PM#62
Originally posted by Eronakis

I think your one the very few on here who comprehends whats going on here. The people who you argue with (the majority), are the new crowd to mmos. The ones played WoW first. They dont understand the grouping. I bet ya 5 bucks that if wow never went mainstream and it never had those colossal subcriber base, we wouldnt have this arguement on this forum right now.

Did you just play the "veteran" card? You went there, didn't ya?

Don't be ignorant. I'm pro-solo and my MMO experience dates back to 1997 with the launch of UO, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard. There is a group of gamers (including myself) who have experienced the grouping heyday and come out the other side of it into a more relaxed, casual perspective to reflect our changing priorities in life.


Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift

  User Deleted
7/19/09 12:05:26 PM#63

God forbid that the gaming industry should reflect the diversity of it's consumer base.

  Eronakis

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/17/08
Posts: 1980

7/19/09 12:08:17 PM#64
Originally posted by Ilvaldyr
Originally posted by Eronakis

I think your one the very few on here who comprehends whats going on here. The people who you argue with (the majority), are the new crowd to mmos. The ones played WoW first. They dont understand the grouping. I bet ya 5 bucks that if wow never went mainstream and it never had those colossal subcriber base, we wouldnt have this arguement on this forum right now.

Did you just play the "veteran" card? You went there, didn't ya?

Don't be ignorant. I'm pro-solo and my MMO experience dates back to 1997 with the launch of UO, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard. There is a group of gamers (including myself) who have experienced the grouping heyday and come out the other side of it into a more relaxed, casual perspective to reflect our changing priorities in life.

 

Pro solo? Are you sure? Wow, because I ENJOY grouping over solo play that makes me a no life hardcore player? Please, you have no right to judge, you dont be ignorant!

  Ihmotepp

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/28/08
Posts: 14557

7/19/09 12:10:26 PM#65
Originally posted by Vrazule

God forbid that the gaming industry should reflect the diversity of it's consumer base.

 

They do. They make games for groupers, and games for solo players that like to group once in a while for shits and giggles.

The problem is they dont' make many games for groupers, like EQ and DAoC.

Even WAR turned into crap because it was a solo game.

You solo quests, and then you jump into a scenario, and play that solo as well with others running around on your team.

  Ilvaldyr

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/08
Posts: 2163

7/19/09 12:12:15 PM#66
Originally posted by Eronakis
Originally posted by Ilvaldyr
Originally posted by Eronakis

I think your one the very few on here who comprehends whats going on here. The people who you argue with (the majority), are the new crowd to mmos. The ones played WoW first. They dont understand the grouping. I bet ya 5 bucks that if wow never went mainstream and it never had those colossal subcriber base, we wouldnt have this arguement on this forum right now.

Did you just play the "veteran" card? You went there, didn't ya?

Don't be ignorant. I'm pro-solo and my MMO experience dates back to 1997 with the launch of UO, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard. There is a group of gamers (including myself) who have experienced the grouping heyday and come out the other side of it into a more relaxed, casual perspective to reflect our changing priorities in life.

Pro solo? Are you sure? Wow, because I ENJOY grouping over solo play that makes me a no life hardcore player? Please, you have no right to judge, you dont be ignorant!

I was describing my situation/history, not yours.

If you inferred a negative from my post, it's purely in your own mind buddy. Try not to be so touchy.


Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift

  User Deleted
7/19/09 4:58:26 PM#67
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by elderotter
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by LynxJSA

Every thread goes the same way. The forced grouping crowd will always argue the same points, despite how many times their falsehoods are corrected.

- Interaction and grouping are not the same thing

- A person can contribute to the game community in forms other than DKP and knowing their role.

- Solo play does not mean anti-social play.

 

Read it. Write it down if you have to. But, for fuck's sake, stop bringing the same tired and completely false arguments out every damn thread.

 

 

 

 I agree with all your points, and assert a few of my own.

Solo players will not acknowledge that grouping for no reason is not fun, while at the same time admitting that grouping is not necessary for socialization.

Ok, if you don't need to group to socialize, which we both agree on, then why do you need to group?

If there is absolutely no need to group, then what's supposed to make it fun?'

Again, we've already stated it's NOT socialization, because grouping is not required to socialize.

The reason grouping is fun, is because it requires team work to over come a challenge.

A challenge that can be avoided, is not a real challenge.

When you add in alternatives to group challenges that require team work, you have removed the challenge for the group player, and therefore the fun, the REASON for grouping.

Why would you group if there is no reason for it?

The reason cannot be socializing, because we have already agreed this can be done playing solo.

I agree with your points but will say this: most groups I have been in, with the exception of guild- only groups(we know each other) do not focus on team-work.  Forced grouping, in my opinion, only results in a large number of what I call "Legions of Doom" usually resulting more in penalties for dying and repairing gear than rewards.  When I group I want people who understand their role in a group, not a bunch of people teamed up who have not worked together and are in it for their own rewards not the rewards for the other members of the group.  Basically, a lot of groups I have been in(non-guild variety) were just a group of solo people who happened to be in a team.You have DPS'rs trying to tank or running out into an area and aggroing everything, which results in the healer trying to heal everyone at once - not good.  You have healers who either do not understand their role or who have run out of mana trying to heal dps'rs and letting the tank die.  You have tanks who think they should be DPS'rs and nott getting the aggro on themselves.  In my experience the main thing forced grouping does is increase the number of Cluster-F*cks.

 

What game, and what level?

IN EQ and DAoC, by level 20 this didn't hardly exist. Since you needed to group, people did, and they learned how to do it.

Most pick up groups in those games people will fall into their roles by level 20 with hardly any discussion, and do them fairly well, if not perfectly.

Many games, CoX,  Shadowbane,  LOTRO, WoW, EQ2 and others I have played.  The level has little to do with it - I have seen legion of doom groups well past lvl 30.  Most pick up groups I have seen have had little team work involved and experienced a large drop out rate by players who finished their quest or level before the rest of the group was done, regardless of level.

As I said Guild-centered groups are not as bad.

  qombi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 1187

7/19/09 5:12:03 PM#68
Originally posted by zethcarn

To answer your question,  there hasn't been enough incentive to group yet.   I love grouping but if I'm not going to be rewarded for taking the time to put a good group of 4-6 players together then why do it?  Especially if you take an instance for example.  You get good rewards but then you level up a little more and the rewards become obsolete.

For grouping to make a comeback in MMOs there needs to be a big incentive to do so.

 

In Everquest leveling wasn't so fast, you actually used the gear for quite sometime so grouping was attractive. Also in Everquest is some ways was similar to what the OP is requesting. People soloed but it was much more effcient in groups and you could get better gear for grouping. MMOs have de-evolved in some aspects, even Everquest has. Don't play Everquest of today it is ruined. The winning formula that made the original game the best selling MMO of it's time is no longer there. The developers just tried to copy the newer games, so what you are left with is a really old patched together mess that tries to be WoW.

  User Deleted
7/19/09 5:27:44 PM#69
Originally posted by qombi
Originally posted by zethcarn

To answer your question,  there hasn't been enough incentive to group yet.   I love grouping but if I'm not going to be rewarded for taking the time to put a good group of 4-6 players together then why do it?  Especially if you take an instance for example.  You get good rewards but then you level up a little more and the rewards become obsolete.

For grouping to make a comeback in MMOs there needs to be a big incentive to do so.

 

In Everquest leveling wasn't so fast, you actually used the gear for quite sometime so grouping was attractive. Also in Everquest is some ways was similar to what the OP is requesting. People soloed but it was much more effcient in groups and you could get better gear for grouping. MMOs have de-evolved in some aspects, even Everquest has. Don't play Everquest of today it is ruined. The winning formula that made the original game the best selling MMO of it's time is no longer there. The developers just tried to copy the newer games, so what you are left with is a really old patched together mess that tries to be WoW.

I agree with most of your post.  I think attempts to make another WoW or even a Wow killer are ruining MMO's.  However I do not think that the term de-evolved is correct.  Without a solo capability Games would be leaving unaddressed a sizable community which would be unwise financially.  It sounds like you are trying to say that no solo content should ever be in any game.  Thus leaving people who enjoy solo content out in the dark.  The wise developer tries to make a game  that addresses both camps, knowing that neither camp will be wholly pleased,  that is called compromise.     You can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.  Group only and solo only games would never get as many people sub'ing to them as a game that offers both.  The developer wants as many subs as possible, leaving one or the other group out of the game would limit the number of subs.  Just my opinion.  Myself, i have no problem grouping, especially with guild mates, when I have to but I like the ability to do as much as I can, through my skills and knowledge of my character's class as possible.  I may be wrong but I think there are many like me, we group when we have to and tend to group with guildmates where possible over random pick-up groups.  At least with guildmates you have some knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of each member and can come to an agreement of when to schedule the group.

With random pick-up groups much time is spent on forming and then rebuilding the group, as people drop out for whatever reason, and who knows who is going to be in the group.  I know that much has been said about in group only games you can blacklist certain players but that doesn't help them learn to be a better team player.  I can argue that solo play does because you learn your character intimately - without doing so you will fail at solo play much less team play.

  Solo play can be an asset to grouping in that it helps a player learn their class's strengths and weaknesses.  I know that the group- only side will disagree with this, but I have yet to see an argument from them that is not is not selfish.  At least I argue that a balance is better, I never say that solo only games are better, just that some solo content should be in the game.  Without it you will have less people in the game and the groupers will still have the same problem of not being able to find people to group with... not because people are soloing but because there is a smaller population of players in the game.  I have found group only games to be both frustrating and boring.  As always - just my opinion.

  qombi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 1187

7/19/09 5:33:17 PM#70
Originally posted by elderotter
Originally posted by qombi
Originally posted by zethcarn

To answer your question,  there hasn't been enough incentive to group yet.   I love grouping but if I'm not going to be rewarded for taking the time to put a good group of 4-6 players together then why do it?  Especially if you take an instance for example.  You get good rewards but then you level up a little more and the rewards become obsolete.

For grouping to make a comeback in MMOs there needs to be a big incentive to do so.

 

In Everquest leveling wasn't so fast, you actually used the gear for quite sometime so grouping was attractive. Also in Everquest is some ways was similar to what the OP is requesting. People soloed but it was much more effcient in groups and you could get better gear for grouping. MMOs have de-evolved in some aspects, even Everquest has. Don't play Everquest of today it is ruined. The winning formula that made the original game the best selling MMO of it's time is no longer there. The developers just tried to copy the newer games, so what you are left with is a really old patched together mess that tries to be WoW.

I agree with most of your post.  I think attempts to make another WoW or even a Wow killer are ruining MMO's.  However I do not think that the term de-evolved is correct.  Without a solo capability Games would be leaving unaddressed a sizable community which would be unwise financially.  It sounds like you are trying to say that no solo content should ever be in any game.  Thus leaving people who enjoy solo content out in the dark.  The wise developer tries to make a game  that addresses both camps, knowing that neither camp will be wholly pleased,  that is called compromise.     You can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.  Group only and solo only games would never get as many people sub'ing to them as a game that offers both.  The developer wants as many subs as possible, leaving one or the other group out of the game would limit the number of subs.  Just my opinion.  Myself, i have no problem grouping, especially with guild mates, when I have to but I like the ability to do as much as I can, through my skills and knowledge of my character's class as possible.  I may be wrong but I think there are many like me, we group when we have to and tend to group with guildmates where possible over random pick-up groups.  At least with guildmates you have some knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of each member and can come to an agreement of when to schedule the group.

With random pick-up groups much time is spent on forming and then rebuilding the group, as people drop out for whatever reason, and who knows who is going to be in the group.  I know that much has been said about in group only games you can blacklist certain players but that doesn't help them learn to be a better team player.  I can argue that solo play does because you learn your character intimately - without doing so you will fail at solo play much less team play.

  Solo play can be an asset to grouping in that it helps a player learn their class's strengths and weaknesses.  I know that the group- only side will disagree with this, but I have yet to see an argument from them that is not is not selfish.  At least I argue that a balance is better, I never say that solo only games are better, just that some solo content should be in the game.  Without it you will have less people in the game and the groupers will still have the same problem of not being able to find people to group with... not because people are soloing but because there is a smaller population of players in the game.  I have found group only games to be both frustrating and boring.  As always - just my opinion.

 

I stated in my post that you could solo in Everquest just wasn't as beneficial as grouping. I do not think that solo should be removed from MMOs. On the contrary I believe solo should be part of a MMO, not at all times can you find a group. I do believe however that grouping should reward you for coming together with others. With grouping being more attractive as an option, I believe it makes it much easier for everyone to find a group.

  User Deleted
7/19/09 5:54:34 PM#71
Originally posted by qombi
Originally posted by elderotter
Originally posted by qombi
Originally posted by zethcarn

To answer your question,  there hasn't been enough incentive to group yet.   I love grouping but if I'm not going to be rewarded for taking the time to put a good group of 4-6 players together then why do it?  Especially if you take an instance for example.  You get good rewards but then you level up a little more and the rewards become obsolete.

For grouping to make a comeback in MMOs there needs to be a big incentive to do so.

 

In Everquest leveling wasn't so fast, you actually used the gear for quite sometime so grouping was attractive. Also in Everquest is some ways was similar to what the OP is requesting. People soloed but it was much more effcient in groups and you could get better gear for grouping. MMOs have de-evolved in some aspects, even Everquest has. Don't play Everquest of today it is ruined. The winning formula that made the original game the best selling MMO of it's time is no longer there. The developers just tried to copy the newer games, so what you are left with is a really old patched together mess that tries to be WoW.

I agree with most of your post.  I think attempts to make another WoW or even a Wow killer are ruining MMO's.  However I do not think that the term de-evolved is correct.  Without a solo capability Games would be leaving unaddressed a sizable community which would be unwise financially.  It sounds like you are trying to say that no solo content should ever be in any game.  Thus leaving people who enjoy solo content out in the dark.  The wise developer tries to make a game  that addresses both camps, knowing that neither camp will be wholly pleased,  that is called compromise.     You can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.  Group only and solo only games would never get as many people sub'ing to them as a game that offers both.  The developer wants as many subs as possible, leaving one or the other group out of the game would limit the number of subs.  Just my opinion.  Myself, i have no problem grouping, especially with guild mates, when I have to but I like the ability to do as much as I can, through my skills and knowledge of my character's class as possible.  I may be wrong but I think there are many like me, we group when we have to and tend to group with guildmates where possible over random pick-up groups.  At least with guildmates you have some knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of each member and can come to an agreement of when to schedule the group.

With random pick-up groups much time is spent on forming and then rebuilding the group, as people drop out for whatever reason, and who knows who is going to be in the group.  I know that much has been said about in group only games you can blacklist certain players but that doesn't help them learn to be a better team player.  I can argue that solo play does because you learn your character intimately - without doing so you will fail at solo play much less team play.

  Solo play can be an asset to grouping in that it helps a player learn their class's strengths and weaknesses.  I know that the group- only side will disagree with this, but I have yet to see an argument from them that is not is not selfish.  At least I argue that a balance is better, I never say that solo only games are better, just that some solo content should be in the game.  Without it you will have less people in the game and the groupers will still have the same problem of not being able to find people to group with... not because people are soloing but because there is a smaller population of players in the game.  I have found group only games to be both frustrating and boring.  As always - just my opinion.

 

I stated in my post that you could solo in Everquest just wasn't as beneficial as grouping. I do not think that solo should be removed from MMOs. On the contrary I believe solo should be part of a MMO, not at all times can you find a group. I do believe however that grouping should reward you for coming together with others. With grouping being more attractive as an option, I believe it makes it much easier for everyone to find a group.

It would have to be a major reward to benefit you  - since most of my experience in non-guild groups is that being in a group is detrimental to my enjoyment of the game - mostly due to the non team attitude of most of those who do random groups.

  toddze

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2195

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

7/19/09 6:31:22 PM#72
Originally posted by Ilvaldyr
Originally posted by Eronakis

I think your one the very few on here who comprehends whats going on here. The people who you argue with (the majority), are the new crowd to mmos. The ones played WoW first. They dont understand the grouping. I bet ya 5 bucks that if wow never went mainstream and it never had those colossal subcriber base, we wouldnt have this arguement on this forum right now.

Did you just play the "veteran" card? You went there, didn't ya?

Don't be ignorant. I'm pro-solo and my MMO experience dates back to 1997 with the launch of UO, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard. There is a group of gamers (including myself) who have experienced the grouping heyday and come out the other side of it into a more relaxed, casual perspective to reflect our changing priorities in life.

 

Yours as well as my priorities have changed but what is completly ignorant and selfish is assuming that since ours has changed, that means everyones has changed. But it seems that the solist is about selfishness so I am not surprised. There are countless others who took our spot with a lots of hours to devote to a game. They have no idea what games like UO, EQ, FFXI were like in their heyday.

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  User Deleted
7/19/09 6:36:33 PM#73
Originally posted by toddze
Originally posted by Ilvaldyr
Originally posted by Eronakis

I think your one the very few on here who comprehends whats going on here. The people who you argue with (the majority), are the new crowd to mmos. The ones played WoW first. They dont understand the grouping. I bet ya 5 bucks that if wow never went mainstream and it never had those colossal subcriber base, we wouldnt have this arguement on this forum right now.

Did you just play the "veteran" card? You went there, didn't ya?

Don't be ignorant. I'm pro-solo and my MMO experience dates back to 1997 with the launch of UO, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard. There is a group of gamers (including myself) who have experienced the grouping heyday and come out the other side of it into a more relaxed, casual perspective to reflect our changing priorities in life.

 

Yours as well as my priorities have changed but what is completly ignorant and selfish is assuming that since ours has changed, that means everyones has changed. But it seems that the solist is about selfishness so I am not surprised. There are countless others who took our spot with a lots of hours to devote to a game. They have no idea what games like UO, EQ, FFXI were like in their heyday.

Soloing is about selfishness just as much as random grouping is.  Which is to say I do not agree.  To me soloing is a challenge, random grouping is also a challenge - how long can I stay in the group before the petty BS drives me back to soloing.

  Artursl

Novice Member

Joined: 12/11/05
Posts: 24

7/19/09 6:45:36 PM#74

I 100% agree to the whole "needs more twitch right there" argument. I've been wanting this for ages and I'm not the only one. A lot of people have been throwing the idea of twitch based mmo's. Closes we have had was...Tabula Rasa? And then we have Huxley which is in the beta atm.

But on the grouping - Yes, I agree. Grouping should make things easier and more fun and should by no means be mandatory and forced. Large groups should only be enforced in pvp events, when your guild/faction needs people to defend/attack.

  toddze

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2195

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

7/19/09 6:50:34 PM#75
Originally posted by elderotter


Soloing is about selfishness just as much as random grouping is.  Which is to say I do not agree.  To me soloing is a challenge, random grouping is also a challenge - how long can I stay in the group before the petty BS drives me back to soloing.

 

Ahh but your main problem is your grouping with soloists, who only care about themselves. Thats why PUG groups in solo friendly games are dangerous.

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  User Deleted
7/19/09 7:01:08 PM#76
Originally posted by toddze
Originally posted by elderotter


Soloing is about selfishness just as much as random grouping is.  Which is to say I do not agree.  To me soloing is a challenge, random grouping is also a challenge - how long can I stay in the group before the petty BS drives me back to soloing.

 

Ahh but your main problem is your grouping with soloists, who only care about themselves. Thats why PUG groups in solo friendly games are dangerous.

Actually I learned long ago to group with guild mates, especially those who use TS or vent.  Which is why - in several of my posts - I made sure to differentiate between random and guild groups.

  Rigorous

Novice Member

Joined: 7/19/09
Posts: 9

7/19/09 7:27:38 PM#77
Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

<snip>

I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard. There is a group of gamers (including myself) who have experienced the grouping heyday and come out the other side of it into a more relaxed, casual perspective to reflect our changing priorities in life.


 

A-freaking-men, my brother.

I loved EQ back in the day (my first MMO...started just after the release of Kunark)...forced grouping and the frustration that could come with LFG for long periods of time sometimes and all.  I also enjoyed soloing as much as I could because it gave me confidence and a clear sense of personal accomplishment.  However, back then, players were much more disciplined and understood their roles better and didn't (in general) behave like utter morons in groups (both because they wanted to participate properly and because there were social incentives not to).

Fast forward to now.  In my experience, too often PUGs (and by extension, Guilds) are an excercise in a different kind of frustration because people just don't know how to monitor their own behavior or how to stay within the boundaries of their roles (yes, possibly because of the surge in solo-ability of games).  I don't need or want to spend my time dealing with that.

So, I continue to enjoy soloing over grouping (in whatever MMO I may be playing) because my time is more important to me and because now my wife or my kids (or work or life or...) might want or need my attention at any moment and out of courtesy to others, I don't get into groups.  I don't expect to get the rewards that I would if I was grouping more difficult content and I can accept that freely.

But don't tell me that I should go play Oblivion because I want to solo.  Don't tell me that I have to group or I simply won't play your game.  Don't tell me that I'm anti-social because I don't look to an online game to form some sort of social status in my own head.  Don't tell me that I am a cancer on the MMO scene because I choose to play the same game that you do, but do it in a way that is different from you.  I'm not (and neither are any "pro-soloers" that I've seen) saying anything whatsoever bad about "pro-groupers," I'm just expecting to be treated in a way that doesn't arbitrarily ostracize me from the community by participating in my chosen hobby in a way that suits me and my life.

"Ignorance begets confidence more often than does knowledge." - Charles Darwin
"It is far easier to be critical than to be correct." - Benjamin Disreali
"A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way." - Mark Twain

  User Deleted
7/19/09 7:32:46 PM#78
Originally posted by Rigorous
Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

<snip>

I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard. There is a group of gamers (including myself) who have experienced the grouping heyday and come out the other side of it into a more relaxed, casual perspective to reflect our changing priorities in life.


 

A-freaking-men, my brother.

I loved EQ back in the day (my first MMO...started just after the release of Kunark)...forced grouping and the frustration that could come with LFG for long periods of time sometimes and all.  I also enjoyed soloing as much as I could because it gave me confidence and a clear sense of personal accomplishment.  However, back then, players were much more disciplined and understood their roles better and didn't (in general) behave like utter morons in groups (both because they wanted to participate properly and because there were social incentives not to).

Fast forward to now.  In my experience, too often PUGs (and by extension, Guilds) are an excercise in a different kind of frustration because people just don't know how to monitor their own behavior or how to stay within the boundaries of their roles (yes, possibly because of the surge in solo-ability of games).  I don't need or want to spend my time dealing with that.

So, I continue to enjoy soloing over grouping (in whatever MMO I may be playing) because my time is more important to me and because now my wife or my kids (or work or life or...) might want or need my attention at any moment and out of courtesy to others, I don't get into groups.  I don't expect to get the rewards that I would if I was grouping more difficult content and I can accept that freely.

But don't tell me that I should go play Oblivion because I want to solo.  Don't tell me that I have to group or I simply won't play your game.  Don't tell me that I'm anti-social because I don't look to an online game to form some sort of social status in my own head.  Don't tell me that I am a cancer on the MMO scene because I choose to play the same game that you do, but do it in a way that is different from you.  I'm not (and neither are any "pro-soloers" that I've seen) saying anything whatsoever bad about "pro-groupers," I'm just expecting to be treated in a way that doesn't arbitrarily ostracize me from the community by participating in my chosen hobby in a way that suits me and my life.

I agree, and want to add "nor do I want to be blamed because no one will group with You".

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3611

7/20/09 12:57:51 AM#79
Originally posted by Eronakis
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by Wolfenpride

This is the cancer that is killing MMO's

Go play a single player game if you want to do everything on your own!!

 

No, the cancer is the bald assertion that MMOs are all about grouping which is simply not true.  They never have been, they never will be.  It is a complete and total lie that grouping is the only "correct" way to play an MMO.

Go play a game like Call of Duty if you want to be in a team.  Leave the rest of us alone.

 

You obviously haven't been around in this genre for a while. I haven't played UO but I did play EQ. At lower levels you could solo but at later levels you had to group. Now some classes, players found out that they could solo at leter stages of the game. Yes, EQ was made after a DnD mold! They wanted grouping. You are obviously clueless.

Yes, I have been around for probably longer than you, I simply recognize that this is no longer a niche genre catering to anti-social twits living in their mother's basement.  The overwhelming majority of the MMO playerbase no longer wants that, that's something you're going to have to get through your head whether you want to or not.

This isn't 2002.  Stop living in the past and join the modern era.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3611

7/20/09 1:01:11 AM#80
Originally posted by Vrazule

God forbid that the gaming industry should reflect the diversity of it's consumer base.

 

There's nothing wrong with diversity and for the most part, the gaming industry *IS* reflecting the diversity of it's consumer  base.  The overwhelming majority of players play solo, at least a part of the time.  Many play it almost exclusively.  Therefore, solo play is emphasized.  That doesn't stop anyone out there from playing in a group in pretty much any game you can name.  That's reflecting diversity.  Soloers have never once suggested that we stop people from grouping, it's the groupers who can't get it through their thick little heads that they can't stop soloers from soloing.

It's amazing how many people want  more diversity by eliminating... diversity.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

7 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Search