It seems their is a new trend with gaming companies now a days to put out a unfinished product and charge people to play their unfinished game.

 Their have been a slew of them in the past year or so and well to be brutealy blunt these games have failed so miserably and  have disheartend and disgusted most in the mmo. comunity that most have gone back to older games that basickly where not  built like peices of shit like these last batches of mmo's where.

AOC,WAR,DARKFALL. now we have Aion, and Mortal Online.

First we used to call beta-beta testing because thats what we where we doing was testing the game out on a larger scale then we where in alpha,  testing the game play, the quest threads, the monster AI,  ect.ect. but here is the big diffrence we did reports daily, and weekly it was our JOB not our fun time to play the game the product was not finished, the product was not being released for the consumer to take as a finished product to play and to fork over x amount of cash to do so. ( what ever the amount.)

Is this product they are puting out beta?

1. Are the people testing during (what is called beta) this phase perfosinals in the feild of computer gaming or being paied a fee to test this product out before the consumer can buy it? NO

2. Are their reports to be filed on a daily or week basis on various elements of the game broken down into catagories? NO

3. Are any of the reports or anything that is pointed out to be a flaw,glitch,bug, or anything that could help in completeing of the game for release taken into concideration and asigned a priority to be look into and solved? NO (just look at a darkfall form or war or aoc to see that nothing you say means anything at all.)

This does not look like beta testing at  all it looks exactly like what it is.

Tthe ability to put a unfinished game out their and have people buy it up in the hopes it lives up to what the dev.'s say it will be.  do not fool your selves or try to convince other's that you are helping this company out bye beta testing their product ( you are not a beta tester.) you are simply buying a unfinished product the only way you are helping the company out is buy puting money into their pockets if you feel so strongly about the game just cut them a check and mail it to them or use pay pal I wold have some respect for the person who does that and says thats what the money I am giving them is for to help pay for their costs to make and produce this game not ya i got in when ever i do get in to play woot o ya but i am beta testing this game for them i am basickly a company man helping out ( you are not.)

This company needs  money to finish up their product and publish it and such and they are a independant so their for they do not have the funds as say a SOE,or a BLIZZ,or a EA -- why? how do they not have the money? no one belived in their product? no ability to make it a corporation with finichial backers?  banks no longer give out business loans to finachly sound bussiness ideas?   

 Hows  a company get millions apon millions of dollars for a scam, a game that never was going to be made with just some hype and some vid's not even game play vid's? and at one point actualy have a release date that you could goto game stop and ask them about? stargate worlds ring a bell? or is it anericans just do it better and if they are going to get paied its going to be worth their while and their not going to have to put nearly any work into getting  a big pay day?

Then the question is how do two scam artists get a company formed peole working for them on a game that was nothing but a scam and a legit company can not get enuff to make a game with a small staff? I will bet the stargate worlds company had more workers and people on payroll then SV has so explain that one if you can.

Their was a time that if you where to walk into the office and say hey i got a great idea lets put the game out as is and charge peole to play it just like we would if we released the finished product and all we have to do is call it beta and here is the best part we do not have to pay the beta testers because the consumer becomes the beta tester even tho they are not realy testing anything. 

You would be promply asked to leave the building and that your check would be mailed to you and to not ask for a refrence. 

That is the difrence between a company that is going to have its 5,10 and who knows anaversiery and the company that is going to have server mergers and then nothing but a bad memory and some old posts on various web sites.

Good luck with MO but I would bet money that its not the next EQ,orWOW,or even any other game thats been out for years with a loyal fan base that demands enuff attention to validate keeping the game running I will bet that it will be another AOC,WAR,darkfall just haging on life suport waiting for the enavitable end to come.  

.

WALL OF TEXT!

To answer your question simply, after reading your nice piece of text, I must say... yes. Most of the times, yes.

 Mortal is just an Oblivion rip off... they really didn't have ot finish or make anything they just stole the whole game.

Honestly why would you pay to play Oblivion now when you didn't have to years ago.

Yes, as long as people are willing to pay to beta it will go on. Of course not everyone has the same view of whether the game is still in  beta or complete. Some folks are willing to play the game even if it's not complete because they like it and are willing to watch it improve.

I wish I were one of the 'perfosinals in the feild of computer gaming or being paied a fee'. On my 1 year 'anaversiery' I could ask for a 'refrence' . It would be 'enavitable' that I would get one since I would be 'basickly' a company man working for a 'finachly sound bussiness'. 'well to be brutealy blunt' I could go on and on but it would make no 'difrence'. 

to me most of his post just sounded like someone made hej didnt get somethinglike a beta invite or something

Originally posted by Rajen

 Mortal is just an Oblivion rip off... they really didn't have ot finish or make anything they just stole the whole game.

 

Honestly why would you pay to play Oblivion now when you didn't have to years ago.

I'm assuming you've played the game then?
Can you tell me how it is?
Aside from that, what you wrote is complete nonsense.

I read an article in a magazine a few months ago.  The author was talking about the state of single player console games that are being released today.  How developers seem to be releasing games with more bugs and broken features, and then patching in fixes later.  Let me repeat, he was talking about single player console games; not MMO's.

Early, rushed releases is not just an MMO thing, it's a game thing all around.
A portion of it is that games are costing more and more to prduce, and are typically taking longer and longer to make.  Investors aren't that willing to wait around for a half decade or more to start seeing a return on thier money, and large game companies that control the studios are the same way.  Publishers often operate with a now mentallity, they want the game done now, they want it released now, they want to start making money now, and the world economic condition isn't helping any either; even large companies have less to spend and reduced patients when it comes to seeing a return.

As far as MO goes.
There is no mystery here.  This isn't Vanguard, AoC, Darkfall, or any slew of other games that have released in the past couple years wholey unfinished and poorly tested.  MO isn't released.
Proffesional beta testers are called quality assurance specialists; they work for the studio and do the internal tests. 
Outside of alpha testing, and the friends and familly beta, closed/ open beta testers are the same people that will be participating in the MO beta.  Members of the community. 

The only dif. between MO's and a regular beta, is that the devs said they needed money to continue development and offered the game for prepurchase.  Those people that would normally wait for devs to send them an email inviting them to beta now know they get in, and when.

But it's more then just beta.
SV isn't expecting to release MO with a half dozen servers.  Just one or two.
On top of getting to do beta testing everyone that prepurchaed the game is guaranteed a spot on the live server.  If you didn't prepurchase then there is no guarantee you'll get to play the game when it launches.  Outside fo just getting to participate in beta, this was a good enough reason for me to pay them now.  Regardless if people think the game sucks when it launches or not, I would buy a copy and play; now I know I'll be able to play when it launches and not have to wait a couple of months or more for a new server to be opened.

All that to say,
SV and MO aren't operating like the games you listed.
Those games released unfinished and in a beta state.  MO is just going into beta and everyone that buys it know that.

I suggest if the OP thinks pre-ordering MO is such a bad idea...that he doesn't.

Rants like this are just a waste of space.

Originally posted by Rajen

 Mortal is just an Oblivion rip off... they really didn't have ot finish or make anything they just stole the whole game.

 

Honestly why would you pay to play Oblivion now when you didn't have to years ago.

it should be illegal for people like you to play or speak about video games.

I dont like what has become om mmorpgs ether.  This way everything will go down.

Originally posted by Rajen

 Mortal is just an Oblivion rip off... they really didn't have ot finish or make anything they just stole the whole game.

 

Honestly why would you pay to play Oblivion now when you didn't have to years ago.

so much lol...it hurts! +1 internets for the dumbest post of the week.

The way it used to work was that the company gave out beta accounts to people for free. Then these people sold their beta accounts to other people for lots of money. So now the company just sells the beta accounts directly to those people. It cuts out the middle man.

So I don't see any problem with it.

Originally posted by sidfu

to me most of his post just sounded like someone made hej didnt get somethinglike a beta invite or something

you don't get invited to beta - you have to buy the game in order to "beta" it

again the meaning of beta has changed in the ever evolving "world" of MMOs

historical view of beta

year one - - - if you choose to help a company test their game they are thankful and actually listen to their testers

year two - - -  helping  a development company test their game to save them money on professionals is now considered a privilege and those testers aren't taken seriously

year three - - -  because of the treatment of year two gamers now try to get into beta just to get a sneak peek at a game and most could give a shit about actually reporting bugs and exploits

year four - - - you now buy an unfinished game to give money to ungrateful developers in the hope that they will finish the dream game they have described to you 

next year - - -  who knows - gamers now are expected to just fork over their credit card numbers with the promise that a game will be forthcoming in a few years?

Originally posted by zartanyen

It seems their is a new trend with gaming companies now a days to put out a unfinished product and charge people to play their unfinished game.

New trend?

*lifts rock*

Sorry doc, but this is actually an old trend by now that started way before AOC, WAR and Darkfall. I know... it's sad

No MMoRPG has ever been released "finished" and I doubt one will ever be, dosnt bother me, if I like a game I will play it, if I dont I wont play it, its time alot of people either live in reality or find another hobby, making games costs mega bucks and companies do and will run out of money, they have no choice but to release thier game.

Its funny how the OP used WoW and EQ as examples of finished games yet WoW was loaded with bugs, server problems and had no endgame nor PvP system at release, while I wont even go into EQs release, its obvious the OP has no idea what hes is typing about much less any idea about how the older MMos true release state was.

Too many companies nowadays are using people who shouldn't be testing games in the first place to beta test their games. This is why the games turn out so crappy. Half of the people testing them don't even know what they are supposed to be testing for, how to fill out a proper bug report or what's normal in a beta at a certain stage of it. I have been in betas where you get tons of people who log on for the first time in a beta and then you see this:

Clueless betatester: "Hey, what's wrong with this gun? It doesn't shoot right."

Vet betatester: "Yeah, that gun isn't working right. I put a ticket on it yesterday."

Clueless betatester: "They still didn't fix it yet? What's the holdup? If they run things like this, this game will bomb."

Vet betatester: "..."

People pay their five bucks or whatever now, and it gives them the right (they think) to bitch in beta testing as to why the game isn't ready yesterday. They paid their fee and are all experts in beta now, so they come back to boards and give their "reviews" on why this game or that game will fail.

All for the mere low price of five bucks.

Originally posted by popinjay

Too many companies nowadays are using people who shouldn't be testing games in the first place to beta test their games. This is why the games turn out so crappy. Half of the people testing them don't even know what they are supposed to be testing for, how to fill out a proper bug report or what's normal in a beta at a certain stage of it. I have been in betas where you get tons of people who log on for the first time in a beta and then you see this:

 

 

 

Clueless betatester: "Hey, what's wrong with this gun? It doesn't shoot right."

Vet betatester: "Yeah, that gun isn't working right. I put a ticket on it yesterday."

 

Clueless betatester: "They still didn't fix it yet? What's the holdup? If they run things like this, this game will bomb."

 

Vet betatester: "..."

 

 

 

People pay their five bucks or whatever now, and it gives them the right (they think) to bitch in beta testing as to why the game isn't ready yesterday. They paid their fee and are all experts in beta now, so they come back to boards and give their "reviews" on why this game or that game will fail.

 

 

 

All for the mere low price of five bucks.

good points. From alpha/beta testing fallen earth i think companys need to bite the bullet and pay people to test their games, like singleplayer games. I got into the FE test, but tbh i didnt have any drive to submit bug reports and what not because it was boring and i wasnt being rewarded for my time.

Originally posted by tvalentine

Originally posted by popinjay

Too many companies nowadays are using people who shouldn't be testing games in the first place to beta test their games. This is why the games turn out so crappy. Half of the people testing them don't even know what they are supposed to be testing for, how to fill out a proper bug report or what's normal in a beta at a certain stage of it. I have been in betas where you get tons of people who log on for the first time in a beta and then you see this:

 

 

 

Clueless betatester: "Hey, what's wrong with this gun? It doesn't shoot right."

Vet betatester: "Yeah, that gun isn't working right. I put a ticket on it yesterday."

 

Clueless betatester: "They still didn't fix it yet? What's the holdup? If they run things like this, this game will bomb."

 

Vet betatester: "..."

 

 

 

People pay their five bucks or whatever now, and it gives them the right (they think) to bitch in beta testing as to why the game isn't ready yesterday. They paid their fee and are all experts in beta now, so they come back to boards and give their "reviews" on why this game or that game will fail.

 

 

 

All for the mere low price of five bucks.

 

good points. From alpha/beta testing fallen earth i think companys need to bite the bullet and pay people to test their games, like singleplayer games. I got into the FE test, but tbh i didnt have any drive to submit bug reports and what not because it was boring and i wasnt being rewarded for my time.

REWARDED? beta testing is supposed to be volunteer work, and nothing more.. Its a shame it has become cash cows for some people (selling beta accounts via ebay) and developers (75 dollars to get into an alpha test?? come on.)

I dont care what anyone says, you don't have to go to college and get a degree to beta test, therefore it is general knowledge t be able to tell a broken item from a working one meaning EVERYONE should be just as qualified to test and help fix the game not just the people willing to throw down 75 dollars in hopes that the game is what they think it is or should be..

Originally posted by Vyeth

Originally posted by tvalentine

Originally posted by popinjay

Too many companies nowadays are using people who shouldn't be testing games in the first place to beta test their games. This is why the games turn out so crappy. Half of the people testing them don't even know what they are supposed to be testing for, how to fill out a proper bug report or what's normal in a beta at a certain stage of it. I have been in betas where you get tons of people who log on for the first time in a beta and then you see this:

 

 

 

Clueless betatester: "Hey, what's wrong with this gun? It doesn't shoot right."

Vet betatester: "Yeah, that gun isn't working right. I put a ticket on it yesterday."

 

Clueless betatester: "They still didn't fix it yet? What's the holdup? If they run things like this, this game will bomb."

 

Vet betatester: "..."

 

 

 

People pay their five bucks or whatever now, and it gives them the right (they think) to bitch in beta testing as to why the game isn't ready yesterday. They paid their fee and are all experts in beta now, so they come back to boards and give their "reviews" on why this game or that game will fail.

 

 

 

All for the mere low price of five bucks.

 

good points. From alpha/beta testing fallen earth i think companys need to bite the bullet and pay people to test their games, like singleplayer games. I got into the FE test, but tbh i didnt have any drive to submit bug reports and what not because it was boring and i wasnt being rewarded for my time.

 

REWARDED? beta testing is supposed to be volunteer work, and nothing more.. Its a shame it has become cash cows for some people (selling beta accounts via ebay) and developers (75 dollars to get into an alpha test?? come on.)

I dont care what anyone says, you don't have to go to college and get a degree to beta test, therefore it is general knowledge t be able to tell a broken item from a working one meaning EVERYONE should be just as qualified to test and help fix the game not just the people willing to throw down 75 dollars in hopes that the game is what they think it is or should be..

yeah thats the point .... its volunteer work.... When you are paid to do something, you usually do a better job then you would if you are volunteering, since you're getting something out of it. TBH posting and petitioning bugs in the amount of detail they want is boring and not fun at all, and the game is incomplete because its in beta, so alot of the fun that could be had in the game to offset the petitioning isn't there. I mean who wants to come home from work, and work volunatarily for a MMORPG company? In the end, you get more quality work from paid workers then volunteers.

Originally posted by tvalentine

 

yeah thats the point .... its volunteer work.... When you are paid to do something, you usually do a better job then you would if you are volunteering, since you're getting something out of it. TBH posting and petitioning bugs in the amount of detail they want is boring and not fun at all, and the game is incomplete because its in beta, so alot of the fun that could be had in the game to offset the petitioning isn't there. I mean who wants to come home from work, and work volunatarily for a MMORPG company? In the end, you get more quality work from paid workers then volunteers.

Thats not true at all. If  a bug keeps popping up, you are going to report is because the bug bothers you. It doesn't matter if you paid to get into beta or not. It makes you feel good when you help fix a bug and make the game better.

Originally posted by tvalentine

Originally posted by Vyeth

Originally posted by tvalentine

Originally posted by popinjay

Too many companies nowadays are using people who shouldn't be testing games in the first place to beta test their games. This is why the games turn out so crappy. Half of the people testing them don't even know what they are supposed to be testing for, how to fill out a proper bug report or what's normal in a beta at a certain stage of it. I have been in betas where you get tons of people who log on for the first time in a beta and then you see this:

 

 

 

Clueless betatester: "Hey, what's wrong with this gun? It doesn't shoot right."

Vet betatester: "Yeah, that gun isn't working right. I put a ticket on it yesterday."

 

Clueless betatester: "They still didn't fix it yet? What's the holdup? If they run things like this, this game will bomb."

 

Vet betatester: "..."

 

 

 

People pay their five bucks or whatever now, and it gives them the right (they think) to bitch in beta testing as to why the game isn't ready yesterday. They paid their fee and are all experts in beta now, so they come back to boards and give their "reviews" on why this game or that game will fail.

 

 

 

All for the mere low price of five bucks.

 

good points. From alpha/beta testing fallen earth i think companys need to bite the bullet and pay people to test their games, like singleplayer games. I got into the FE test, but tbh i didnt have any drive to submit bug reports and what not because it was boring and i wasnt being rewarded for my time.

 

REWARDED? beta testing is supposed to be volunteer work, and nothing more.. Its a shame it has become cash cows for some people (selling beta accounts via ebay) and developers (75 dollars to get into an alpha test?? come on.)

I dont care what anyone says, you don't have to go to college and get a degree to beta test, therefore it is general knowledge t be able to tell a broken item from a working one meaning EVERYONE should be just as qualified to test and help fix the game not just the people willing to throw down 75 dollars in hopes that the game is what they think it is or should be..

 

yeah thats the point .... its volunteer work.... When you are paid to do something, you usually do a better job then you would if you are volunteering, since you're getting something out of it. TBH posting and petitioning bugs in the amount of detail they want is boring and not fun at all, and the game is incomplete because its in beta, so alot of the fun that could be had in the game to offset the petitioning isn't there. I mean who wants to come home from work, and work volunatarily for a MMORPG company? In the end, you get more quality work from paid workers then volunteers.

Actually, I know one person (not myself) that actively patrols certain forums as an moderator..  deleting, locking.. suspending.. whatever he has to do to keep the boards clean.  He also writes for a gaming magazine company.  Guess what, he hasn't been paid for it.  Maybe people like you don't care, but there are plenty of people out there who live and breathe games.  They do it because they love it.  Imagine that.

For me personally, I have been dying for a game like Ultima Online for a decade.  Now I finally have the chance to play in the near future... and I'm not going to screw off and not beta test this properly.  There are going to be a lot of people just like me, who actually want this game to succeed.  And the only way to do that is to put forth our best effort to help SV make this what we've always been dreaming of.  We have a vested interest in this game, why in the world would I pre-order and then screw off while beta testing?  I'd be wasting my own money.  Maybe all the little kids could care less, but when it comes to my money.. I'd much rather not give it away by not helping SV make it worth the cash.

You understand now?

Oh by the way, I hate my job and I do just enough to not get fired... so your theory is way off for me.

I am also worried with this "paying to beta tactics" as it will draw alot of fanboys to beta test the game and fan boys are, because of emotional reasons, incapable of criticizing anything in the game.

So flaws that, most normal gamers, would see as flaws would be lost to the fanboys testing it. Not good, not good at all...

Originally posted by DAS1337

Actually, I know one person (not myself) that actively patrols certain forums as an moderator..  deleting, locking.. suspending.. whatever he has to do to keep the boards clean.  He also writes for a gaming magazine company.  Guess what, he hasn't been paid for it.  Maybe people like you don't care, but there are plenty of people out there who live and breathe games.  They do it because they love it.  Imagine that.

 

For me personally, I have been dying for a game like Ultima Online for a decade.  Now I finally have the chance to play in the near future... and I'm not going to screw off and not beta test this properly.  There are going to be a lot of people just like me, who actually want this game to succeed.  And the only way to do that is to put forth our best effort to help SV make this what we've always been dreaming of.  We have a vested interest in this game, why in the world would I pre-order and then screw off while beta testing?  I'd be wasting my own money.  Maybe all the little kids could care less, but when it comes to my money.. I'd much rather not give it away by not helping SV make it worth the cash.

 

You understand now?

 

Oh by the way, I hate my job and I do just enough to not get fired... so your theory is way off for me.

Problem is that you are too much of vested interest in the game which makes it impossible for you to be an objective tester. A tester must be a very critical person and look out for flaws but since you, as you say, is already convinced that this game will be the second coming of UO (even though you, probably, havent even played the game) are clearly incapable to be objective as you are far to emotionally invested in the game.

That is why companies need PROFESSIONAL testers, or if they can't get that, atleast testers that are not so into the game, without even playing it, that they are ready to pay $100 to test it. You will swallow everything you see because you are already convinced that the game is great and that is a terrible mindset to have as a tester.

Because if it is so great then it can't possibly have any flaws right?

Oh brother, pleaaase. You know how many MMOs have been released in a real final state?

0

Any MMO that has fixed at least one bug, you could say they released it in a beta state, since really, the definition of a game ready for release is void of bugs.

I'll just say simply that, I don't agree with your post at all.

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by tvalentine 

yeah thats the point .... its volunteer work.... When you are paid to do something, you usually do a better job then you would if you are volunteering, since you're getting something out of it. TBH posting and petitioning bugs in the amount of detail they want is boring and not fun at all, and the game is incomplete because its in beta, so alot of the fun that could be had in the game to offset the petitioning isn't there. I mean who wants to come home from work, and work volunatarily for a MMORPG company? In the end, you get more quality work from paid workers then volunteers.

Actually, I know one person (not myself) that actively patrols certain forums as an moderator..  deleting, locking.. suspending.. whatever he has to do to keep the boards clean.  He also writes for a gaming magazine company.  Guess what, he hasn't been paid for it.  Maybe people like you don't care, but there are plenty of people out there who live and breathe games.  They do it because they love it.  Imagine that.

 

For me personally, I have been dying for a game like Ultima Online for a decade.  Now I finally have the chance to play in the near future... and I'm not going to screw off and not beta test this properly.  There are going to be a lot of people just like me, who actually want this game to succeed.  And the only way to do that is to put forth our best effort to help SV make this what we've always been dreaming of.  We have a vested interest in this game, why in the world would I pre-order and then screw off while beta testing?  I'd be wasting my own money.  Maybe all the little kids could care less, but when it comes to my money.. I'd much rather not give it away by not helping SV make it worth the cash.

 

You understand now?

 

Oh by the way, I hate my job and I do just enough to not get fired... so your theory is way off for me.

Amen!