Here's what Roper posted regarding MTs in today's state of the game post:

"Champions Online will support micro-transactions, but contrary to the concerns of some people, the game is not ‘based’ on them. There are the basic tenets for our micro-transactions:

The vast majority are aesthetic items, such as costume pieces, action figures, emblems, etc.

A very few are account-level management tools, such as being able to rename a character

Micro-transactions should never limit your ability to enjoy the game or reach the level cap

Any micro-transaction that has a game effect can also be earned in the game through play

Also, it’s important to note that the overwhelming majority of micro-transactions are account-wide. This means if you buy a costume piece or an action figure, every character on your account gets it.

Finally, many of the pre-order programs that we’re finalizing now have cryptic points associated with them. This is a way for us to allow our players to choose their own pre-order reward(s) which falls into our whole customization concept for Champions Online."

Take this as you will

I hate that they're charging for "fluff." People who are conditionally okay with cash shops usually say, "as long as it's just fluff." To me, fluff is an important part of the game, especially in a game like this. With avatar identities being so important in a superhero game, it just mystifies me that Cryptic would try to monetize it. It's a core component!

It may be that I'm not the target demographic for this particular game: I'm female, and I'm over 30. Then again, Champions was my favorite tabletop roleplaying game by a mile, I've been an avid MMO gamer since 1999 (18 months spent in CoX), I played MUDs for eight years before MMOs were around, I'm one of probably ten women in the world who owns a long-box of  comic books, avatar customization is tremendously important to me, and I posted semi-regularly on the CO official forums. If I'm not the target demographic for this game, I don't know who is. And I deleted my Champions bookmark folder from Firefox this morning.

If RMTs really are the future, I'm taking a trip back to the past; the Mud Connector still has 1119 MUDs listed, and I still have a copy of ZMud around somewhere. I'm sure this comes across as just another RMT rant (lord knows there were 28-page threads on the subject at the official forums), but I look at the landscape of MMOs and upcoming MMOs, and I see the death of something I've enjoyed doing for a decade. That chafes a bit.

You're probably thinking, "Melodramatic much?" Sure, the games will continue, they'll probably even turn record profits, but they won't be the things I fell in love with anymore. Games based even partly on the RMT/cash shop model have to give you reasons to spend your money or there's no income. Those reasons are little reminders, little flags, insidious little nudges around every corner that "if you pay just a bit more, you'll have a better experience!" Of course, in a subscription game, that means "Your subscription fee has purchased a sub-optimal experience. Please enter your PIN number for Big Fun!™" No thank you.

(Editor's Note: I'm not a perpetually cynical or pessimistic person, but this topic really rumbles my thunder!)

Originally posted by Jenuviel

I hate that they're charging for "fluff." People who are conditionally okay with cash shops usually say, "as long as it's just fluff." To me, fluff is an important part of the game, especially in a game like this. With avatar identities being so important in a superhero game, it just mystifies me that Cryptic would try to monetize it. It's a core component!

 

It may be that I'm not the target demographic for this particular game: I'm female, and I'm over 30. Then again, Champions was my favorite tabletop roleplaying game by a mile, I've been an avid MMO gamer since 1999 (18 months spent in CoX), I played MUDs for eight years before MMOs were around, I'm one of probably ten women in the world who owns a long-box of  comic books, avatar customization is tremendously important to me, and I posted semi-regularly on the CO official forums. If I'm not the target demographic for this game, I don't know who is. And I deleted my Champions bookmark folder from Firefox this morning.

 

If RMTs really are the future, I'm taking a trip back to the past; the Mud Connector still has 1119 MUDs listed, and I still have a copy of ZMud around somewhere. I'm sure this comes across as just another RMT rant (lord knows there were 28-page threads on the subject at the official forums), but I look at the landscape of MMOs and upcoming MMOs, and I see the death of something I've enjoyed doing for a decade. That chafes a bit.

 

You're probably thinking, "Melodramatic much?" Sure, the games will continue, they'll probably even turn record profits, but they won't be the things I fell in love with anymore. Games based even partly on the RMT/cash shop model have to give you reasons to spend your money or there's no income. Those reasons are little reminders, little flags, insidious little nudges around every corner that "if you pay just a bit more, you'll have a better experience!" Of course, in a subscription game, that means "Your subscription fee has purchased a sub-optimal experience. Please enter your PIN number for Big Fun!™" No thank you.

 

(Editor's Note: I'm not a perpetually cynical or pessimistic person, but this topic really rumbles my thunder!)

I wasn't around with MUDs, but I still feel the same about RMT and all that. I want everyone have the same conditions and RMT and such sounds not ok for me. I think for us as gamers it is right to say how we feel about it. I dont understand why some always must make fun of those of us, as if any development in games (or elsewhere) was a fate written in stone! I mean, even if RMT will spread, we don't have to like it and as gamers we are entitled to say what we dislike. I mean, when did criticizing become illegal, or what? It may not have immediate effect, but even if it just helps to keep it limited, it does do good. We must say we don't like it, so at least it doesn't spread to game influencing stuff and is limited to some fancy.

Especially for CO it is unfortunate though. I liked the way in CoH where there was only one limit to your character design: your imagination. Now its your imagination AND your pocket purse, and I don't see that as progress. I think we should voice our dislike. Even if it comes, at least hopefully it stays limited. So far I am sure not to buy CO, at least not until a while after release I am sure about how it is, now. There are still enough MMOs without RMT. And this is pure greed. You buy the box, you pay monthly AND you pay for extra stuff. Just a bit too much payment for my taste, but each must know for him/herself how much he/she wants to invest into a game.

Yea I agree, its a mistake... all i know is that i;ll stat far away, i rather pay for small expansions .. but charging for little "fluff" stuff is silly and just leaves a bad tasted and makes them appear greedy or despearte for more money. Plus as someone said, fluff is going to be an important part of a superhero game.

I think this will hurt them.. especially if it's a part of their their business model from the start. Expect people to buy the silly stuff they have in the stores... and counting on that money.... well I doubt it will work.

Originally posted by zethcarn

 

Any micro-transaction that has a game effect can also be earned in the game through play

This can ONLY be read as saying, "We will have MTs that cause game effects"   That is the deal-breaker to those of us who lost interest in this game because of RMTs.  You want to pay to change servers?  Fine.  You want to pay to change your name?  Fine.  You want  to buy something that you would otherwise have to earn in-game?  Forget it, I'm outta here.

While I also think the RTs are a really stupid idea I'm still on the fence about this game.  Fluff items are not the core of my game play.  I'm more interested in exploring, combat, and items that affect your character's power.  I keep thinking about all the fun times I had in City of Heroes and wonder if Cryptic can carry over the same fun game play.  In regards to costumes I never really cared too deeply about how I looked versus how effective my toon was in a team.

I haven't followed Champions and I don't have any affinity for super hero MMOs/RPGs. That said, I wanted to comment on the RMT discussion for this new game. I believe one of the posters above me stated it well when he/she mentioned demographics. As a professional male past the apparent target demographic for many of the upcoming games, I can't help but wonder if/when a high quality game will be developed to cater to that mostly untapped crowd.

Of course, I fully expect to pay more for a monthly subscription...I WANT to pay more. I believe $40 - $60 per month for a monthly subscription seems reasonable for a quality game that is developed with specific tastes in mind and makes no apologies for it. I make an outstanding living money-wise, and yet I have never and will never purchase a single RMT item in something that I consider to be my hobby - the hobby part being the advancement and growth of my character through my own risk/reward choices and fortitude.

I can see how the preference of others feel differently who:

• consistently maintain that they have "real" lives, and therefore scoff at the idea of spending anything beyond what they deem as an acceptable amount of time on a game
• have decided to make gaming a low priority in their lives
• do not enjoy the "challenge", or "competitiveness" that has been the foundation for games for centuries
• view MMOs as little more than avatar-centric and graphically enhanced chat rooms
• are not adept at MMO gaming controls or mechanics (hand-eye coordination, understanding of math/statistics and their impact on game mechanics)
• like the tables tipped in their favor over whatever is the game's challenge (PVP, PVE, etc.)
• are willing to pay for advancement and character growth with money rather than time or fortitude within the game
• believe that everyone in an MMO should (or even can be) a hero

Given the currrent trend of in-development MMOs and the dramatic change in direction and even scope of a growing number of released games, someone out there sure thinks that most gamers fit into one or more of those categories (these are just examples...there are many more and combinations therein, of course).

This may be the case, and yet how many posts and threads have we read where folks are lamenting that their gaming style or demographic is being ignored? I don't know much, but I believe that the industry ignores my demographic to its detriment. (My personal demographic being professional, just turned 40, family, and yet highly avid gamer - I eschew all television and other time wasters.) Rather than my demographic wanting it easier, I submit that game developers may just be surprised.

I no more pretend to represent my demographic's  middle ground any more than I represent the average anything (I do not). And yet, the fact still remains that an entire demographic - perhaps an entire generation - is being underserved.

Originally posted by zethcarn

Here's what Roper posted regarding MTs in today's state of the game post:

"Champions Online will support micro-transactions, but contrary to the concerns of some people, the game is not ‘based’ on them. There are the basic tenets for our micro-transactions:

The vast majority are aesthetic items, such as costume pieces, action figures, emblems, etc.

A very few are account-level management tools, such as being able to rename a character

Micro-transactions should never limit your ability to enjoy the game or reach the level cap

Any micro-transaction that has a game effect can also be earned in the game through play

Also, it’s important to note that the overwhelming majority of micro-transactions are account-wide. This means if you buy a costume piece or an action figure, every character on your account gets it.

Finally, many of the pre-order programs that we’re finalizing now have cryptic points associated with them. This is a way for us to allow our players to choose their own pre-order reward(s) which falls into our whole customization concept for Champions Online."

Take this as you will

What's surprising? That worthless waste of good oxygen Bill Roper tried to charge for everything under the sun with Failgate: London, including mmo monthly fees for a non-mmo game. If anything takes Champions Online down, it won't be RMT. It will be Bill Roper.

Stupid. Crossing this one off my list of games to try.

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by zethcarn

Here's what Roper posted regarding MTs in today's state of the game post:

"Champions Online will support micro-transactions, but contrary to the concerns of some people, the game is not ‘based’ on them. There are the basic tenets for our micro-transactions:

The vast majority are aesthetic items, such as costume pieces, action figures, emblems, etc.

A very few are account-level management tools, such as being able to rename a character

Micro-transactions should never limit your ability to enjoy the game or reach the level cap

Any micro-transaction that has a game effect can also be earned in the game through play

Also, it’s important to note that the overwhelming majority of micro-transactions are account-wide. This means if you buy a costume piece or an action figure, every character on your account gets it.

Finally, many of the pre-order programs that we’re finalizing now have cryptic points associated with them. This is a way for us to allow our players to choose their own pre-order reward(s) which falls into our whole customization concept for Champions Online."

Take this as you will

 

What's surprising? That worthless waste of good oxygen Bill Roper tried to charge for everything under the sun with Failgate: London, including mmo monthly fees for a non-mmo game. If anything takes Champions Online down, it won't be RMT. It will be Bill Roper.

QFT QFT

When I bought CoH I paid more for a collectors edition that gave me Power Slide. It was faster than sprint and was useful in getting around. If you didn't get the CE than you didn't get it. I've paid for 2 extra slots on my server and paid for the Cyborg pack and the Magic Pack for my costumes. Oh and one server transfer. So that's an extra £30 over 5 years. Really broke the bank that one.

Oh and just out of curiosity Zethcarn, where did you get the bill roper quote from?

Originally posted by Jenuviel

I hate that they're charging for "fluff." People who are conditionally okay with cash shops usually say, "as long as it's just fluff." To me, fluff is an important part of the game, especially in a game like this. With avatar identities being so important in a superhero game, it just mystifies me that Cryptic would try to monetize it. It's a core component!

 

It may be that I'm not the target demographic for this particular game: I'm female, and I'm over 30. Then again, Champions was my favorite tabletop roleplaying game by a mile, I've been an avid MMO gamer since 1999 (18 months spent in CoX), I played MUDs for eight years before MMOs were around, I'm one of probably ten women in the world who owns a long-box of  comic books, avatar customization is tremendously important to me, and I posted semi-regularly on the CO official forums. If I'm not the target demographic for this game, I don't know who is. And I deleted my Champions bookmark folder from Firefox this morning.

 

If RMTs really are the future, I'm taking a trip back to the past; the Mud Connector still has 1119 MUDs listed, and I still have a copy of ZMud around somewhere. I'm sure this comes across as just another RMT rant (lord knows there were 28-page threads on the subject at the official forums), but I look at the landscape of MMOs and upcoming MMOs, and I see the death of something I've enjoyed doing for a decade. That chafes a bit.

 

You're probably thinking, "Melodramatic much?" Sure, the games will continue, they'll probably even turn record profits, but they won't be the things I fell in love with anymore. Games based even partly on the RMT/cash shop model have to give you reasons to spend your money or there's no income. Those reasons are little reminders, little flags, insidious little nudges around every corner that "if you pay just a bit more, you'll have a better experience!" Of course, in a subscription game, that means "Your subscription fee has purchased a sub-optimal experience. Please enter your PIN number for Big Fun!™" No thank you.

 

(Editor's Note: I'm not a perpetually cynical or pessimistic person, but this topic really rumbles my thunder!)

CoX has costume/power/emote packages that cost "extra".  I guess you can consider that an RMT game, so you've already played one.  I really don't see the problem.  I don't see it as game-breaking.  If you don't want it, don't buy it. 

Originally posted by Leethe

When I bought CoH I paid more for a collectors edition that gave me Power Slide. It was faster than sprint and was useful in getting around. If you didn't get the CE than you didn't get it. I've paid for 2 extra slots on my server and paid for the Cyborg pack and the Magic Pack for my costumes. Oh and one server transfer. So that's an extra £30 over 5 years. Really broke the bank that one.

Oh and just out of curiosity Zethcarn, where did you get the bill roper quote from?

http://www.champions-online.com/node/92892

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Originally posted by zethcarn

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Originally posted by Leethe

When I bought CoH I paid more for a collectors edition that gave me Power Slide. It was faster than sprint and was useful in getting around. If you didn't get the CE than you didn't get it. I've paid for 2 extra slots on my server and paid for the Cyborg pack and the Magic Pack for my costumes. Oh and one server transfer. So that's an extra £30 over 5 years. Really broke the bank that one.
Oh and just out of curiosity Zethcarn, where did you get the bill roper quote from?

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http://www.champions-online.com/node/92892
 

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Originally posted by junzo316

<snip>

CoX has costume/power/emote packages that cost "extra".  I guess you can consider that an RMT game, so you've already played one.  I really don't see the problem.  I don't see it as game-breaking.  If you don't want it, don't buy it. 

CoX absolutely did have RMT, but it didn't when it launched. That game is where I learned how much I disliked them. I definitely won't tell you you're wrong to be fine with them; it wasn't my intent to point fingers at you, and you're entitled to your own preferences. If you do want it, do buy it. I've already made the decision not to, however, and it's entirely because of this issue. Rather than just going away quietly, I wanted to express the reasoning behind my displeasure.

In a way, I wish there were an exit survey I could fill out before ever playing the game. Cryptic will never actually know that I did or didn't buy the thing, they'll never know why I didn't buy the thing, they'll just know if they sold more or less copies than they expected to. I'd have liked to tell them that I'd been standing in line to be one more sale, and that RMTs alone were a big enough turn-off to not only cause the cancellation of my pre-order, to not only make me delete all bookmarks associated with the game, but to send me to a gaming forum to express my frustration over it.  Yes, people are always "expressing frustration" on the internet, particularly on forums like this one. If not here, though, where?

Anyway, I didn't want to get into an argument over this. This whole thing just makes me so..so...grrrr!