I still think AC is the best MMORPG that has been made.  The lore is great, the ability to custom-build your type of character has no equal I've found, and the variety of quests is still amazing.  The biggest thing I've heard anyone say about the game is the need to update the graphics, and refine the coding to reduce lag.  If AC could accomplish those two things alone, I think former players would come back in droves.  I know it's a major undertaking that would cost a fortune, but is it really a risky bet for a game that has the staying power this one does?  There aren't many others that have the longevity, and there's a reason for that.  This game is simply a very, very good game.  If it wasn't fun, people wouldn't still be playing it.  I keep returning for the game, and leaving because of the ancient graphics.  I still have one of my original characters from the first year of the game.  I've tried other games, and find I get bored with them, even WoW, with all it's glitz.  There's just something about AC that has never been matched elsewhere.  I'd hate to see the bad graphics cause that intangible something to wither away.

Got to agree, Asheron's Call is one of the best, most-pioneering MMOs I've seen to date. Character development, open sandbox style with world events on a regular basis - classic and unendingly fun.

Got to disagree with the second part though. I'd come back and play AC in a heartbeat with the existing graphics - but I can't. I suffer the same problem as many others in that the game and server setup simply won't communicate with my modem, so I cannot get past the loading screen.

Seeing as how technology moves on so fast in the world today, my first priority would be to update the game connection technology/specs/process to ALLOW people to get back into it - AC will never compete with more modern MMOs for graphics, but will blow 99% of them away for gameplay, fun and longevity.

Laters
Max

Anyone that plays a game based on graphics is the same type of person that will leave as soon as the next game is released. Those are the types of people that play any given MMO for only 1-3 months before moving on, and that isn't where the staying power comes from.

Would newer graphics be nice? Of course. Is it necessary for the game to continue to be fun? Not at all. And that is where the real staying power comes from, the game is fun.

But I certainly wouldn't be against the game getting rebuilt on a modern engine, since they do have LotRO and DDOs engines to work with, I'm sure it's just too big of an investment for them to want to do it.

 To bring people back to the game that have left, and, more importantly, to grow the population and attract new players, Asheron's Call must have graphics that are not nearing 10 years  old.  If Asheron's Call wasn't fun, I wouldn't keep coming back to it.  I've been a player since the second month of release.  When it was released, the game had graphics that were equal to anything else available.  How many games with a substantial following still have graphics engines that old?  A handful.  The ones that still survive have dedicated fans because of the quality of the games.    

It is an unfortunate fact that if I log in, say in Holtburg, the number of bots in town far outnumbers the players on most occasions.  New players rarely appear- most low level characters are alts for established players.  A graphics update would bring back old players that loved the game, and provide a reason to promote the game to new players- the only real way the game will continue to survive in the long run.  On the other hand, if Turbine is merely going to milk the game until it dies with as little additional investment as possible, it will die a withering death.

Look at all the new games that appear, after years of heavy development, only to die not long after release because the game doesn't grab the audience.  Isn't Dungeons and Dragons a good example of this, to say nothing of AC2?  Asheron's Call has that special something that catches our imagination.  Aside from that, it is indeed, a fun game.  However, it is fast approaching the place where you have to question if it is still a MASSIVELY MULTI-PLAYER online game.  It's just not that massive anymore.  It's not as exciting as it was in the days of large crowds in all towns.  I really wish that would change, but I don't see Turbine willing to invest in AC in a big way.  I sure wish they would.  After the minor graphics update they did previously, and with the last expansion, AC was available for a short time at a retail level again, and actually brought some new players into the game.  But it's been a long time since that expansion, and I don't hear any talk of any more of them on the way.  If I'm wrong about that, I would be ecstatic.

Originally posted by Erindorn

 To bring people back to the game that have left, and, more importantly, to grow the population and attract new players, Asheron's Call must have graphics that are not nearing 10 years  old.  If Asheron's Call wasn't fun, I wouldn't keep coming back to it.  I've been a player since the second month of release.  When it was released, the game had graphics that were equal to anything else available.  How many games with a substantial following still have graphics engines that old?  A handful.  The ones that still survive have dedicated fans because of the quality of the games.    

It is an unfortunate fact that if I log in, say in Holtburg, the number of bots in town far outnumbers the players on most occasions.  New players rarely appear- most low level characters are alts for established players.  A graphics update would bring back old players that loved the game, and provide a reason to promote the game to new players- the only real way the game will continue to survive in the long run.  On the other hand, if Turbine is merely going to milk the game until it dies with as little additional investment as possible, it will die a withering death.

Look at all the new games that appear, after years of heavy development, only to die not long after release because the game doesn't grab the audience.  Isn't Dungeons and Dragons a good example of this, to say nothing of AC2?  Asheron's Call has that special something that catches our imagination.  Aside from that, it is indeed, a fun game.  However, it is fast approaching the place where you have to question if it is still a MASSIVELY MULTI-PLAYER online game.  It's just not that massive anymore.  It's not as exciting as it was in the days of large crowds in all towns.  I really wish that would change, but I don't see Turbine willing to invest in AC in a big way.  I sure wish they would.  After the minor graphics update they did previously, and with the last expansion, AC was available for a short time at a retail level again, and actually brought some new players into the game.  But it's been a long time since that expansion, and I don't hear any talk of any more of them on the way.  If I'm wrong about that, I would be ecstatic.

They release expansion sized patches for free now. 100th update had a ton of content, new features, whole new loot tear along with brand new types of armor. Societies and PvP elements. It would of been an expansion by most other companies standards but it was just a free download. For 10th anniversary they're talking about brand new skills, a quest panel (yes finally). That patch will probably also be an expansion sized one but it will also be free. That is why you don't see boxed expansions anymore.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

They release expansion sized patches for free now. 100th update had a ton of content, new features, whole new loot tear along with brand new types of armor. Societies and PvP elements. It would of been an expansion by most other companies standards but it was just a free download. For 10th anniversary they're talking about brand new skills, a quest panel (yes finally). That patch will probably also be an expansion sized one but it will also be free. That is why you don't see boxed expansions anymore.

Just because they release patches "the size of expansions" (which they don't), doesn't mean it is alright to sit on 10 year old DX7 graphics. Yes, they updated to DX8 like 4 years ago, when DX9 was out, congrats to them. Look at Everquest, they constantly update their engine, and with the money that Turbine pulls in from LotRO and DDO there is no reason they shouldn't be looking at improving the graphics of the game, except for the fact that they don't want to invest a nickle into it.

It takes far less money to generate some textures (and that is all the Turbine Armor is, just retextured models) then to create a new engine. The problem is, AC is probably down to it's last few thousand players. With no one wanting to join any more, and old players moving on to other games. Yes, it has some of the best gameplay and character development. I played WoW for 4 years after leaving AC, so graphics aren't a huge catch, but I can't play something that looks like it was made for the Playstation 1. Seriously, a simple graphics update would do wonders.

The other hope, is a new game based on AC with some unique mechanics and an improved gaming engine. Yet, I have a feeling Turbine wants to let AC die a slow death.

Originally posted by phitch

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

They release expansion sized patches for free now. 100th update had a ton of content, new features, whole new loot tear along with brand new types of armor. Societies and PvP elements. It would of been an expansion by most other companies standards but it was just a free download. For 10th anniversary they're talking about brand new skills, a quest panel (yes finally). That patch will probably also be an expansion sized one but it will also be free. That is why you don't see boxed expansions anymore.

 

Just because they release patches "the size of expansions" (which they don't), doesn't mean it is alright to sit on 10 year old DX7 graphics. Yes, they updated to DX8 like 4 years ago, when DX9 was out, congrats to them. Look at Everquest, they constantly update their engine, and with the money that Turbine pulls in from LotRO and DDO there is no reason they shouldn't be looking at improving the graphics of the game, except for the fact that they don't want to invest a nickle into it.

It takes far less money to generate some textures (and that is all the Turbine Armor is, just retextured models) then to create a new engine. The problem is, AC is probably down to it's last few thousand players. With no one wanting to join any more, and old players moving on to other games. Yes, it has some of the best gameplay and character development. I played WoW for 4 years after leaving AC, so graphics aren't a huge catch, but I can't play something that looks like it was made for the Playstation 1. Seriously, a simple graphics update would do wonders.

The other hope, is a new game based on AC with some unique mechanics and an improved gaming engine. Yet, I have a feeling Turbine wants to let AC die a slow death.

They release a patch last year that was the same size as most game expansions, and they had the 10th anniversary this year which introduced a new creature race, two new skills (so essentially a new class) and a quest journal among other things. Which is generally the amount of stuff that once again you get with a paid expansion in other games, but good job on being ignorant and posting on the fact that you are.

As I said before I have no problems with people who play a game based on graphics to not join the player base. That same type of person leaves games frequently looking for what's new and shiny. The majority has spoken and it is why the mmo genre is getting worse by the year. Players want more and newer shinies, and they want simple games that just keep throwing new bings at them (levels, loot, titles every few minutes). So that is how all new games will be made, they will b edesigned to hold someone's attention for a max of 3 months and then the next game is released. I don't want any part of that cycle or those boring games.

Asheron's armor is pallettized models. So there are like 12 styles of armor, maybe more I was counting off the top of my head, all with their own models and then the texture is changed so that players can dye them and find different color setups. The newest armor (society armor) does have solid models and textures. New stuff created generally does, but no it w ould cost a ton to overhaul the tens of thousands of preexisting art assetss, both models and textures.

I don't comment on this game as person who immediately jumped to the newest shiniest game.  I started playing AC 2 months after it started.  I consistently held an account for about 8 years.  I had 3 accounts for about 4 years.  I'm sorry, but Turbine just doesn't invest into the game at the same level they used to.  They used to have weekly content updates, no charge.  They would add quests, and more importantly, add to the ongoing storyline on a weekly basis.  It kept people invested, much as a tv show that is continued until next week's episode.  When the moved away from the weekly patches, it became more difficult keeping the sense of involvement in a story that was continually developing.  The deep storylines were the most compelling feature.  They seem to have lost that central storyline to a great degree, starting before the ToD expansion.  That expansion largely ignored what had been an ongoing story that had lasted for years.  It went in a completely different direction, and I think it really disconnected the lore.

When AC first went live, everyone was using Windows 98.  A large hard drive was 20-40 gb, and processors and video cards were equally limited.  AC2  was an attempt to bring the graphics up to speed, but the world was largely two-dimensional.   The buildings were cardboard cutouts that you couldn't even enter.  The original AC world was totally accessible, you could enter all the buildings.  You could climb all the mountains.  There were very few artificial graphic walls that stopped you from going anywhere.  That's still an area AC has over every other game out there.  The lack of narrow borders that a player needed to stay within, both in the gameworld and in the character design, remains unique to AC.  You want a spellcasting warrior?  No problem.  You want to explore every building in the world?  Have at it. 

I find it regrettable that Turbine doesn't recognize the gem it has, and put money into it accordingly.  Update the graphics.  Go back to a weekly patch regimen that keeps a developing storyline involving players in the lore.  Put out major expansions once a year that offer an opportunity to draw new players into the game.  D&D is a dog.  AC2 deserved its fate.  LotR is clumsy to play, even if it's pretty to look at. 

I've spent a lot of time and money playing MMORPGs.  I've tried most, but the only ones I've committed to long-term had something unique about them.  I just find the graphics in AC now similar to watching a black and white movie after just watching a blu-ray disk.  If what they're doing currently was enough, the game world wouldn't be so empty.  Fix the graphics.  Do weekly story updates again.  See how many former players come back in a heartbeat.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

They release a patch last year that was the same size as most game expansions,

Really? According to whom was it as big as most expansions? If it was as big as most expansions according to you, that doesn't make it so.  Did they add a new race, a new host of skills, a new land mass half the size of the original? If your answer is no, then it was just a big patch, not an expansion sized patch.

and they had the 10th anniversary this year which introduced a new creature race, two new skills (so essentially a new class) and a quest journal among other things. Which is generally the amount of stuff that once again you get with a paid expansion in other games, but good job on being ignorant and posting on the fact that you are.

Wow, I really pressed a button with you, but tell me what game introduces a new mob and 2 skills and calls it an expansion? I want to hear this. If you say WoW, you are wrong. Last expansion they introduced a new continent half the size of the original game, a whole new class with close to 50 unique skills, a whole new crafting skill, and a good dozen or so dungeons. Which seems to be the typical expansion for most games. So obviously, I am ignorant.

 

As I said before I have no problems with people who play a game based on graphics to not join the player base. That same type of person leaves games frequently looking for what's new and shiny. The majority has spoken and it is why the mmo genre is getting worse by the year. Players want more and newer shinies, and they want simple games that just keep throwing new bings at them (levels, loot, titles every few minutes). So that is how all new games will be made, they will b edesigned to hold someone's attention for a max of 3 months and then the next game is released. I don't want any part of that cycle or those boring games.

Nothing personal, Asheron's Call is a very simple game. You have choices as far as your character goes, but there is nothing complex about the game. You simply press auto attack, bandage every once and a while and go. It is one the least complex games available. "But you get to make choices!" And? There is no tanking, no healing, no raiding, just grinding and gear. That is all, kill mobs look for better gear, tinker it, and repeat. Maybe do some kind of XP run in a dungeon. Seriously, what is complex? What makes you believe just because the game is more "grindy" that it is more complex? There is a serious lack of depth as far as the game goes. Join a VoD xp grind? Join a XP run in a dungeon?

Don't get me wrong, I loved AC in it's day, but to say "people who play for graphics..." is a cop out and you know it. It gives you a reason for feeling better about sticking with the game, while somehow feeling superior at the same time because you can look down on others and tell them they just mmo hop. Which is probably not the case, but rather then look at it objectively it is easier to criticize other people for wanting to move on from a game who's game play has become stagnant and who's graphics were outdated 6 years ago.

 

Asheron's armor is pallettized models. So there are like 12 styles of armor, maybe more I was counting off the top of my head, all with their own models and then the texture is changed so that players can dye them and find different color setups. The newest armor (society armor) does have solid models and textures. New stuff created generally does, but no it w ould cost a ton to overhaul the tens of thousands of preexisting art assetss, both models and textures.

You are wrong, the armor in Asheron's Call is all mesh. All they do is take the standard body type of the male and female and then they draw the armor directly on top of that. Nothing more. Don't believe me? Take your armor off, look at the size of your character, then put it back on, nothing changes size wise.  Nothing in the game is done with "solid models" because they game and the skeletons of the characters don't support it.

"You are wrong, the armor in Asheron's Call is all mesh. All they do is take the standard body type of the male and female and then they draw the armor directly on top of that. Nothing more. Don't believe me? Take your armor off, look at the size of your character, then put it back on, nothing changes size wise. Nothing in the game is done with "solid models" because they game and the skeletons of the characters don't support it."

Wrong. Asheron's Call was before meshes became common practice. Each part of the character is in fact a seperate model. There is an upper and lower arm model for example, they are then all put together in the animations. And as a very quick and easy example to your armor, the viamontian armor suits completly change the body shape and size of the wearer. Armor in AC is not the paint over that games with meshes tend to use now, each piece of armor is an actual model that covers the body part. Another easy way to see this is to wear different types of armor together, so wear one styles breastplate and another armor types sleeves, and the models don't fit together where they meet, because one type is big heavy armor and another is small light armor. They are actually models. All items can also be dropped on the ground so there is the 3d model used for that as well (and yes the different pieces and types of armor all look like their respective armor when dropped, it isn't just a this is a piece of armor graphic).

There is no cop out in the graphics issue. The fact that AC still has players after 10 years with the same graphics shows to the gameplay. The fact that most MMOs now a days release with huge sales numbers month 1 and then down to a fraction of that month 2 and 3 is because everyone jumps to the new and shiny, then they are bored and need another new and shiny. So why would a company invest millions to redo an entire game's art just to draw in the crowd that needs the new and shiny that will leave anyways once the next new pretty game is released.

"but tell me what game introduces a new mob and 2 skills and calls it an expansion? I want to hear this. If you say WoW, you are wrong. Last expansion they introduced a new continent half the size of the original game, a whole new class with close to 50 unique skills, a whole new crafting skill, and a good dozen or so dungeons. Which seems to be the typical expansion for most games. So obviously, I am ignorant."

Yes clearly you have issue with AC and good for you. But you are still ignorant. Let's look at it as a whole then since maybe that will be easier for you. Most games release an expansion once a year sometimes once every 2 years. They add a new area to hunt in, a new class, and raise the level cap.

AC releases new content every month for free, equaling easily 30 new quests a year. AC on top of that releases big updates also for free. These big update this year brought a new fighting skill and a new crafting skill. A new mob (as in entire new art and then all the level breaks of that mob), 2 new hunting areas, a quest journal which the game never had, a new jewelry slot that works in a different way then previous ones (have to find specific items and then craft them making a variety of choices to put there that have spells unique only to this type of jewelry).

Last year's big update brought 2 new landmasses to fight on, new pk control towns, socities which each have at least 30 quests involved with them, new society only armor and items. An entire new tier of loot, so a new level of every type of weapon and spell. A new system of accessing the new loot through gaining keys from a large selection of quests along with finding it on loot.

The producer's letter and ask the devs info released this past week talks about new playable races and a new level cap (among a bunch of other interesting additions and art improvements) on top of the continuing added content.

But I can see how these free updates are nothing like the paid expansions of other games........

Originally posted by SnarlingWol

 

Wrong. Asheron's Call was before meshes became common practice. Each part of the character is in fact a seperate model. There is an upper and lower arm model for example, they are then all put together in the animations. And as a very quick and easy example to your armor, the viamontian armor suits completly change the body shape and size of the wearer. Armor in AC is not the paint over that games with meshes tend to use now, each piece of armor is an actual model that covers the body part. Another easy way to see this is to wear different types of armor together, so wear one styles breastplate and another armor types sleeves, and the models don't fit together where they meet, because one type is big heavy armor and another is small light armor. They are actually models. All items can also be dropped on the ground so there is the 3d model used for that as well (and yes the different pieces and types of armor all look like their respective armor when dropped, it isn't just a this is a piece of armor graphic).

 

Wrong again. You don't change and the armor is all drawn over, don't believe me? Open up the .dat file my friend. It is all paint over. Believe what you will but you know you are wrong.

 

There is no cop out in the graphics issue. The fact that AC still has players after 10 years with the same graphics shows to the gameplay. The fact that most MMOs now a days release with huge sales numbers month 1 and then down to a fraction of that month 2 and 3 is because everyone jumps to the new and shiny, then they are bored and need another new and shiny. So why would a company invest millions to redo an entire game's art just to draw in the crowd that needs the new and shiny that will leave anyways once the next new pretty game is released.

Yes, keeping a game running with 1% of it's peak player is a sign of success...

 

Yes clearly you have issue with AC and good for you. But you are still ignorant. Let's look at it as a whole then since maybe that will be easier for you. Most games release an expansion once a year sometimes once every 2 years. They add a new area to hunt in, a new class, and raise the level cap.

AC releases new content every month for free, equaling easily 30 new quests a year. AC on top of that releases big updates also for free. These big update this year brought a new fighting skill and a new crafting skill. A new mob (as in entire new art and then all the level breaks of that mob), 2 new hunting areas, a quest journal which the game never had, a new jewelry slot that works in a different way then previous ones (have to find specific items and then craft them making a variety of choices to put there that have spells unique only to this type of jewelry).

OMG 30 whole quests? Wow! Stop the presses, hold the phones AC added 30 new quests! What's that, last patch WoW added 15 new quests... but 30, over a year. Not impressive. A new mob! Wow! 1 Whole new mob... after 2 years since their last expansion!

 

Last year's big update brought 2 new landmasses to fight on, new pk control towns, socities which each have at least 30 quests involved with them, new society only armor and items. An entire new tier of loot, so a new level of every type of weapon and spell. A new system of accessing the new loot through gaining keys from a large selection of quests along with finding it on loot.

 2 small landmasses mind you, a new level of gear which requires an extra line of code, and some quests... you mentioned the quests though.

The producer's letter and ask the devs info released this past week talks about new playable races and a new level cap (among a bunch of other interesting additions and art improvements) on top of the continuing added content.

 Another human? Wow! Instead of 4 humans, you will have 5! Fantastic.

But I can see how these free updates are nothing like the paid expansions of other games........

I tried to play AC again this weekend. The game was so bad that I decided to uninstall it in 30 minutes.


[ Mod Edit ]

Lol you mention other games adding 30 quests as a bonus, I show that AC did that too and you make remarks that show how pathetic you are in return, nice one.

The new races are likely to not be human, lugians/gearknights/empyreans have all been talked about as likely choices.

I am willing to wager with you right now that the armor is actual models, so much so that I would like to wager which one of us is wrong has to delete his MMORPG account. What do you say? We will ask the devs via their forums or e-mail directly.

< nevermind, I'm not going to try >

AC was my First Online game and the one that got me HOOKED on Gaming [Thanks Matt....lol]

It was Brilliant and all the concepts still are - only ONE thing WRONG, Up date the Graphics - Especially the Character Graphics. 

I have spoken to a lot of friends that were in AC with me and other people that played it - they say IF the graphics were Updated they WOULD GO BACK!  I would go back in a Heartbeat if they updated the Graphics. The monthly Subscription is far too high for the kind of Graphics they are giving.

Come on TURBINE - UPDATE the GRAPHICS!   It  WILL Pay for itself in the long run!

a graphics update will only go so far, AC is an amazing game but the UI and combat definitely needs to be upgraded.  If they could make the melee/ranged combat something similar to what DDO uses I think this would make AC into a much more fun to play game for most newer mmo players. 

Originally posted by S00S00

I used to like their UI - and found it hard when first moving to another game to get used to the others with their Cluttered up screens.

I still find a lot of Games screens very cluttered - so Games like RIFT, Conan etc with their allowing players to move anything on the screen to suit their mode of play suits me beautifully. Have to say so far though RIFT is the best for being able to move and size all on the screen, only thing I still do not like in most games is the fact we cannot make the Chat boxes even smaller than they allow atm, AC2 was great for that - my chat box was 1" x 1"   Perfect.....LOL

I would go back if they just brought the graphics up to date and left the UI - but I understand that people want Different things - but then again if they did improve the graphics [which in reality would mean remaking the whole game with a different Graphics engine] then Changing the UI would just be part and parcel of that.

I know they tried to do better with AC2 - and despite what some people say - I liked AC2 as well - Turbine were pretty good at game making - so What happened TURBINE?  Come on you KNOW YOU CAN do it again!   :o))

 

Give us back the BEST game - but updated - PLEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZE!

 Since they do monthly updates (and basically have to keep that up as all existing players are too used to it at this point) they add/enhance graphics slowly over time. They did the landscape and they've done a few of the world objects. They added the gearknights, gurogs, snow tuskers which are all higher quality art than what existed in AC. They said in the producer's letter that they are planning on updating the art on the undead race soon as well.

They also recently added mouse turning/moving to allow people from other MMOs get into the game and use the controls they are used to. Also they announced that they are looking to start on some UI changes this year.

Ya, the things they r bringing into the game and the way the story line is going looks like they r moving towards the time of AC2's history, all the critters they r bringing in so far, r from AC2.

Problem is they r taking So Long to update the graphics, that by the time it is fully updated I will be in my Dotage............lol  and other games will Still be far ahead in Graphic terms, as they would have moved ahead as well!

Originally posted by S00S00

 

Ya, the things they r bringing into the game and the way the story line is going looks like they r moving towards the time of AC2's history, all the critters they r bringing in so far, r from AC2.

Problem is they r taking So Long to update the graphics, that by the time it is fully updated I will be in my Dotage............lol  and other games will Still be far ahead in Graphic terms, as they would have moved ahead as well!

 Sure, but the people who play for graphics don't stay with games long anyway so there is no point spending millions to bring in a crowd that will jump ship when the next shiny comes out.

Basically if you need the whole game's graphics updated for you to want to play it, then you don't want to play the game in the first place.

Graphics do not equal fun and AC is serious fun.

I did play it from the beginning till AC2 came out!  I also went back - but Graphics DO make a difference to game play!

I have also played WoW from Beta - which is a pretty long time.

Turbine do have a better Graphics Engine - so it is not as though they have to go to the expense of getting that and the programmers!

And even if the gamers only went into it for up to 4 years - they would More than make their money back!

I think u r just trying to be otherwise!........LOL