Originally posted by crunchyblack

i dont care that your leaving, no one expected you to turn around and like the game, that was obvious.

quitting over not having the death peanalty you want is, well....

wan't just that one thing Crunchy . The lack of any death penalty was just one straw on a pile. I won't bother listing them because that would not serve any purpose except to start arguments. I really did try and like the game, gave it three chances and there are aspects of it I really like, but overall it just comes up short in my expectations of what a game should be in too many ways

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by crunchyblack

i dont care that your leaving, no one expected you to turn around and like the game, that was obvious.

quitting over not having the death peanalty you want is, well....

wan't just that one thing Crunchy . The lack of any death penalty was just one straw on a pile. I won't bother listing them because that would not serve any purpose except to start arguments. I really did try and like the game, gave it three chances and there are aspects of it I really like, but overall it just comes up short in my expectations of what a game should be in too many ways

well we all look forward to hearing about those expectations aoc fell short in for many months, and years to come.

lets not forget "what a game should be" is the ultimate in objective statements.

Not having any risk vs reward is a pretty big flaw in a game Crunchy, try googling risk vs reward if you don't believe me

here is a bit that might explain it better than I can

So why is risk important? As game designers we are always looking for what makes a game enjoyable, one of those factors is risk. If a character can die a million times and we don’t care we lose the immersive experience of the game. If we feel as though we are “going through the motions”, that is if all we are doing is repeating some mindless action in order to get to the next plot point, then we resent that section of the game (anyone who’s played through a Final Fantasy or a Xenosaga or a .hack understands this feeling). We don’t find it “fun” or challenging, we find it tedious and time consuming. There is no epinephrine released during this time -- there is no excitement -- and when we complete such a section in a game we breathe a sigh of relief, inwardly saying “glad that’s done” rather than feeling the exaltation of victory.

from this link on gamasutra

www.gamasutra.com/features/20060912/portnow_02.shtml

Originally posted by Jackdog

Not having any risk vs reward is a pretty big flaw in a game Crunchy, try googling risk vs reward if you don't believe me

here is a bit that might explain it better than I can

So why is risk important? As game designers we are always looking for what makes a game enjoyable, one of those factors is risk. If a character can die a million times and we don’t care we lose the immersive experience of the game. If we feel as though we are “going through the motions”, that is if all we are doing is repeating some mindless action in order to get to the next plot point, then we resent that section of the game (anyone who’s played through a Final Fantasy or a Xenosaga or a .hack understands this feeling). We don’t find it “fun” or challenging, we find it tedious and time consuming. There is no epinephrine released during this time -- there is no excitement -- and when we complete such a section in a game we breathe a sigh of relief, inwardly saying “glad that’s done” rather than feeling the exaltation of victory.

 

from this link on gamasutra

www.gamasutra.com/features/20060912/portnow_02.shtml

 

 

 

again i believe in risk vs reward, im just against a time sink as a punishment.

and again, its not a game changer to me, i dont care if you have links and quotes that tell me it should be a game changer.

these are just games, i play to have fun...regrinding a % of xp or chiling and waiting for a debuff to run out isnt my idea of having fun, it doesnt add to the game.

perhaps you could fill us in on what a good death penalty looks like? so mabey we all have a frame of reference here.

Originally posted by crunchyblack

Originally posted by Jackdog

Not having any risk vs reward is a pretty big flaw in a game Crunchy, try googling risk vs reward if you don't believe me

here is a bit that might explain it better than I can

So why is risk important? As game designers we are always looking for what makes a game enjoyable, one of those factors is risk. If a character can die a million times and we don’t care we lose the immersive experience of the game. If we feel as though we are “going through the motions”, that is if all we are doing is repeating some mindless action in order to get to the next plot point, then we resent that section of the game (anyone who’s played through a Final Fantasy or a Xenosaga or a .hack understands this feeling). We don’t find it “fun” or challenging, we find it tedious and time consuming. There is no epinephrine released during this time -- there is no excitement -- and when we complete such a section in a game we breathe a sigh of relief, inwardly saying “glad that’s done” rather than feeling the exaltation of victory.

 

from this link on gamasutra

www.gamasutra.com/features/20060912/portnow_02.shtml

 

 

 

 

again i believe in risk vs reward, im just against a time sink as a punishment.

and again, its not a game changer to me, i dont care if you have links and quotes that tell me it should be a game changer.

these are just games, i play to have fun...regrinding a % of xp or chiling and waiting for a debuff to run out isnt my idea of having fun, it doesnt add to the game.

perhaps you could fill us in on what a good death penalty looks like? so mabey we all have a frame of reference here.

why bother, you just want to argue. For the record I have enjoyed Ultima Online, DAoC, SWG ( original) EQII, LoTRO , and Eve so pick any and or all of those for your frame of reference. None were or are perfect but they are all better than nothing at all so now go ahead and enjoy AoC dude, it doesn't matter what I think. Like the guy said above I cannot get immered in a character if I don't give a damn whether he lives or dies, obviously you can so enjoy.

Originally posted by Jackdog

why bother, you just want to argue. For the record I have enjoyed Ultima Online, DAoC, SWG ( original) EQII, LoTRO , and Eve so pick any and or all of those for your frame of reference. None were or are perfect but they are all better than nothing at all so now go ahead and enjoy AoC dude, it doesn't matter what I think. Like the guy said above I cannot get immered in a character if I don't give a damn whether he lives or dies, obviously you can so enjoy.

SWG definitely had one of the more in-depth death penalties. The way it was tied into socialization was ingenious IMO. To bad it was changed along with everything else that was unique in the experience. AOC would benefit from some ideas that were used in SWG early on, especially in teh realm of player cities. Creating a reason to gather outside of combat goes along way to strengthening a community.

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Jackdog

why bother, you just want to argue. For the record I have enjoyed Ultima Online, DAoC, SWG ( original) EQII, LoTRO , and Eve so pick any and or all of those for your frame of reference. None were or are perfect but they are all better than nothing at all so now go ahead and enjoy AoC dude, it doesn't matter what I think. Like the guy said above I cannot get immered in a character if I don't give a damn whether he lives or dies, obviously you can so enjoy.

SWG definitely had one of the more in-depth death penalties. The way it was tied into socialization was ingenious IMO. To bad it was changed along with everything else that was unique in the experience. AOC would benefit from some ideas that were used in SWG early on, especially in teh realm of player cities. Creating a reason to gather outside of combat goes along way to strengthening a community.

a very good point and I agree.

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by crunchyblack

i dont care that your leaving, no one expected you to turn around and like the game, that was obvious.

quitting over not having the death peanalty you want is, well....

wan't just that one thing Crunchy . The lack of any death penalty was just one straw on a pile. I won't bother listing them because that would not serve any purpose except to start arguments. I really did try and like the game, gave it three chances and there are aspects of it I really like, but overall it just comes up short in my expectations of what a game should be in too many ways

there is no lack of death penalty, the only lack over here is of you understanding how death penalty works in AoC.

no need to remind you that the fact of not understanding something does not necessarily negate its exstence.

Originally posted by clearSam

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by crunchyblack

i dont care that your leaving, no one expected you to turn around and like the game, that was obvious.

quitting over not having the death peanalty you want is, well....

wan't just that one thing Crunchy . The lack of any death penalty was just one straw on a pile. I won't bother listing them because that would not serve any purpose except to start arguments. I really did try and like the game, gave it three chances and there are aspects of it I really like, but overall it just comes up short in my expectations of what a game should be in too many ways

there is no lack of death penalty, the only lack over here is of you understanding how death penalty works in AoC.

no need to remind you that the fact of not understanding something does not necessarily negate its exstence.

 

so what exactly is the death penalty Sam? There are no debuffs anymore. There is no equipment damage and repair bill. The only thing I saw was a 15 second run back from the rez pad.  I sure as hell could not tell any difference in my characters performance

As fans have already pointed out in this thread at one time there was a mild death penalty, a debuff that reduced stats. Stats affected turned red and were reduced in value. That seems to have went away somewhere between last February and now.

Whether that is just a bug or redesign to make the game even easier than it was, that is the question.

I mean even kiddie games like Flyff have a death penalty so i imagine it is just a bug in the patch.

Originally posted by Jackdog

I just did a test. I committed suicide three times in game. Checked all of my stats and wrote them down, never tagged my tombstones and all my stats were exactly the same after the three deaths as they were before I started. A FPS has more of a death penalty than this game, AoC is all reward and no risk.

Sorry FC but as far as I am concerned that really sucks, no wonder I found myself getting bored again.

Actually there is a debuff. It's not large but it's there. mouse over the skull and it gives -1% blah blah to certain things. My guess is that each skull adds to that.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jackdog

I just did a test. I committed suicide three times in game. Checked all of my stats and wrote them down, never tagged my tombstones and all my stats were exactly the same after the three deaths as they were before I started. A FPS has more of a death penalty than this game, AoC is all reward and no risk.

Sorry FC but as far as I am concerned that really sucks, no wonder I found myself getting bored again.

 

Actually there is a debuff. It's not large but it's there. mouse over the skull and it gives -1% blah blah to certain things. My guess is that each skull adds to that.

if it does it is not apparent by looking at the character stats. I had 3 of them stacked last night and everything was - 0%, it is probably bugged

Looks like I might have to do a re install just to do some screenshots to prove it.

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jackdog

I just did a test. I committed suicide three times in game. Checked all of my stats and wrote them down, never tagged my tombstones and all my stats were exactly the same after the three deaths as they were before I started. A FPS has more of a death penalty than this game, AoC is all reward and no risk.

Sorry FC but as far as I am concerned that really sucks, no wonder I found myself getting bored again.

 

Actually there is a debuff. It's not large but it's there. mouse over the skull and it gives -1% blah blah to certain things. My guess is that each skull adds to that.

if it does it is not apparent by looking at the character stats, probably bugged

possible but I died twice the other night... then realized that I didn't know what the debuff was. It takes off -1% off of certain things. you just have to mouse over the skulls to see what the debuff is.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jackdog

I just did a test. I committed suicide three times in game. Checked all of my stats and wrote them down, never tagged my tombstones and all my stats were exactly the same after the three deaths as they were before I started. A FPS has more of a death penalty than this game, AoC is all reward and no risk.

Sorry FC but as far as I am concerned that really sucks, no wonder I found myself getting bored again.

 

Actually there is a debuff. It's not large but it's there. mouse over the skull and it gives -1% blah blah to certain things. My guess is that each skull adds to that.

if it does it is not apparent by looking at the character stats, probably bugged

 

possible but I died twice the other night... then realized that I didn't know what the debuff was. It takes off -1% off of certain things. you just have to mouse over the skulls to see what the debuff is.

I am not doubting you on that it might be saying it is, what I am saying is that it isn't really doing it. Some of the stats used to turn red and had a reduced value. My bet is that it is bugged, not that FC intended to make it go away.

Either one of the Devs that read this board or Avery or someone that still playing the game needs to bring it to FC's attention.

Originally posted by Jackdog

I just did a test. I committed suicide three times in game. Checked all of my stats and wrote them down, never tagged my tombstones and all my stats were exactly the same after the three deaths as they were before I started. A FPS has more of a death penalty than this game, AoC is all reward and no risk.

Sorry FC but as far as I am concerned that really sucks, no wonder I found myself getting bored again.

The debuffs works, but it is not that big deal unless you die 5 times+ in half an hour.

But to be honest, death penalties in almost all modern games suck. 10% down on armor that costs a few silver to fix for my high level char?

Lineage 1 had the perfect penalty, if you died you sometimes lost a random item (I think it was 1 time in 3 or something like that). Mobs picked up those items if your friends didn't for you and anyone killing the mob got the extra loot. The bad part was that sometimes it got odd, I got a lvl 35 or so sword from a rabbit. At night She-lobs spawned there but in the day it was a noob zone so the first day I was playing I got a great item. You also lost some XP.

But that was a great penalty because you were afraid to die but if you did it didn't totaly ruin your game. Corpse runs are boring and starting without all your stuff is too harsch for my taste. But the regular penalties now are nothing and people die 20 times fighting a monster that is almost impossible for them to kill but they lose almost nothing and will succed sooner or later.

You should be afraid to die, but not so you quit the game and play like a total chicken.

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Jackdog

I just did a test. I committed suicide three times in game. Checked all of my stats and wrote them down, never tagged my tombstones and all my stats were exactly the same after the three deaths as they were before I started. A FPS has more of a death penalty than this game, AoC is all reward and no risk.

Sorry FC but as far as I am concerned that really sucks, no wonder I found myself getting bored again.

 

Actually there is a debuff. It's not large but it's there. mouse over the skull and it gives -1% blah blah to certain things. My guess is that each skull adds to that.

if it does it is not apparent by looking at the character stats, probably bugged

 

possible but I died twice the other night... then realized that I didn't know what the debuff was. It takes off -1% off of certain things. you just have to mouse over the skulls to see what the debuff is.

I am not doubting you on that it might be saying it is, what I am saying is that it isn't really doing it. Some of the stats used to turn red and had a reduced value. My bet is that it is bugged, not that FC intended to make it go away.

Either one of the Devs that read this board or Avery or someone that still playing the game needs to bring it to FC's attention.

yup... bugged.

Originally posted by Loke666

 

But to be honest, death penalties in almost all modern games suck. 10% down on armor that costs a few silver to fix for my high level char?

heh heh you should get some lvl 60 high end equipment, the teal stuff, and die 3 or 4  times in LoTRO. You will see the better part off a gold piece go away. And even at lvl 60 it takes about a hour or so to make a gold unless you are really lucky in gathering.

At any rate I am glad to find out it was just a bug, not a intentional re design. If I had known that yesterdat I would have just sent in a bug report instead of making this thread.

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Loke666

 

But to be honest, death penalties in almost all modern games suck. 10% down on armor that costs a few silver to fix for my high level char?

heh heh you should get some lvl 60 high end equipment, the teal stuff, and die 3 or 4  times in LoTRO. You will see the better part off a gold piece go away. And even at lvl 60 it takes about a hour or so to make a gold unless you are really lucky in gathering.

At any rate I am glad to find out it was just a bug, not a intentional re design. If I had known that yesterdat I would have just sent in a bug report instead of making this thread.

 

And what level were you when you tested the Death penatly in AoC Jackdog? 
 

Cos a 3% decrease in stats may not show up as an overall reduction if your such a low level!

Originally posted by VultureSkull

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Loke666

 

But to be honest, death penalties in almost all modern games suck. 10% down on armor that costs a few silver to fix for my high level char?

heh heh you should get some lvl 60 high end equipment, the teal stuff, and die 3 or 4  times in LoTRO. You will see the better part off a gold piece go away. And even at lvl 60 it takes about a hour or so to make a gold unless you are really lucky in gathering.

At any rate I am glad to find out it was just a bug, not a intentional re design. If I had known that yesterdat I would have just sent in a bug report instead of making this thread.

 

And what level were you when you tested the Death penatly in AoC Jackdog? 
 

Cos a 3% decrease in stats may not show up as an overall reduction if your such a low level!

I first noticed it on my lvl 18 then tested it on my level 28 Vulture. Wasn't just me that tested it either if you read the thread. Stats are not even turning red anymore. It is bugged, I am sure sooner or later FC will get around to fixxing it. 

I don't understand peoples' need to physically see the stat deduction on their character sheet.  I don't see my stats affected via what my character sheet says.  But, however, the effects are still there.  If you really want to see the penalty working die 6-7 times in quick succession (less than 2 minutes in between, because not only do you get another debuff but the previous one will also increase its stat deduction).  You will probably be seeing a 12%+ deduction, your stats just won't reflect the numbers on the character sheet.

Essentially what I got form teh OP was "Hey the death penalty doesn't suck as much unless you die a lot.  That makes the game suck.  I MUST be punished for dying."  You want punishment for dying, go play FFXI and die just after every time you ding a level.

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by VultureSkull

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Loke666

 

But to be honest, death penalties in almost all modern games suck. 10% down on armor that costs a few silver to fix for my high level char?

heh heh you should get some lvl 60 high end equipment, the teal stuff, and die 3 or 4  times in LoTRO. You will see the better part off a gold piece go away. And even at lvl 60 it takes about a hour or so to make a gold unless you are really lucky in gathering.

At any rate I am glad to find out it was just a bug, not a intentional re design. If I had known that yesterdat I would have just sent in a bug report instead of making this thread.

 

And what level were you when you tested the Death penatly in AoC Jackdog? 
 

Cos a 3% decrease in stats may not show up as an overall reduction if your such a low level!

I first noticed it on my lvl 18 then tested it on my level 28 Vulture. Wasn't just me that tested it either if you read the thread. Stats are not even turning red anymore. It is bugged, I am sure sooner or later FC will get around to fixxing it. 

I cannot duplicate this issue. For myself, when I die, I hold the mouse over the skull and it shows how much of a penalty I have.

It does not reflect in the stats tab anymore, but instead on the actual skull icon.

This is not a bug, but a user error. Please run verify/repair (as you did note issues with a crash on install and patcher update). That should alleviate the problem.

Thanks

whatever guys, the death penalty whether it is working or not  was just one more straw of boredom on the pile of ho humm. Like I said it used to show up in stats but if you want to insist it is wroking even though it does not show up there then so be it. Even with three tombstones stacked I saw no difference in how my lvl 28 HoX played. If it is working as intended then fine.  Perfect  for those who do not care for any challenge or difficulty in their games I guess. If all you want to do is to kill time completing one level of quest so you can advance to the next level of quests with the least amount of difficulty possible you have the ideal game here.

By the way Open in a MMO the damage is computed server side not client side and I uninstalled with no intention of ever reinstalling the game ever again. I figure I have gave it three tries and three times found it boring. I was hoping the 1.05 would make the game interesting for me but it did not.

Enjoy the game fans

Originally posted by Jackdog

whatever guys, the death penalty whether it is working or not  was just one more straw of boredom on the pile of ho humm. Like I said it used to show up in stats but if you want to insist it is wroking even though it does not show up there then so be it. Even with three tombstones stacked I saw no difference in how my lvl 28 HoX played. If it is working as intended then fine.  Perfect  for those who do not care for any challenge or difficulty in their games I guess. If all you want to do is to kill time completing one level of quest so you can advance to the next level of quests with the least amount of difficulty possible you have the ideal game here.

By the way Open in a MMO the damage is computed server side not client side and I uninstalled with no intention of ever reinstalling the game ever again. I figure I have gave it three tries and three times found it boring. I was hoping the 1.05 would make the game interesting for me but it did not.

Enjoy the game fans

Does this mean your done posting stuff like this? Awesome.

Thanks for sharing, and enjoy your game of choice. (Not sure why you did not stay if it was that great to begin with...???)

AoC will survive!

Originally posted by openedge1

Originally posted by Jackdog

whatever guys, the death penalty whether it is working or not  was just one more straw of boredom on the pile of ho humm. Like I said it used to show up in stats but if you want to insist it is wroking even though it does not show up there then so be it. Even with three tombstones stacked I saw no difference in how my lvl 28 HoX played. If it is working as intended then fine.  Perfect  for those who do not care for any challenge or difficulty in their games I guess. If all you want to do is to kill time completing one level of quest so you can advance to the next level of quests with the least amount of difficulty possible you have the ideal game here.

By the way Open in a MMO the damage is computed server side not client side and I uninstalled with no intention of ever reinstalling the game ever again. I figure I have gave it three tries and three times found it boring. I was hoping the 1.05 would make the game interesting for me but it did not.

Enjoy the game fans

Does this mean your done posting stuff like this? Awesome.

Thanks for sharing, and enjoy your game of choice. (Not sure why you did not stay if it was that great to begin with...???)

AoC will survive!

just because I find the game boring does not mean I find watching the roller coaster drama over here on these forums enjoyable. They are far more entertaining than the game itself ever was.

On your last sentence just the fact that you needed to add it means that there must be some doubts there. I guess the third quarter figures will pretty much tell the tale won't they? The veteran campaign and 1.05 really is pretty much the last ball the pitcher has to throw out isn't it?

By the way I have changed my main MMORPG 5 times in the last 12 years ( UO, DAoC, SWG, EQII, and now LoTRO). I don't marry a game I play it till something better comes along. AoC was not something better

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by openedge1

Originally posted by Jackdog

whatever guys, the death penalty whether it is working or not  was just one more straw of boredom on the pile of ho humm. Like I said it used to show up in stats but if you want to insist it is wroking even though it does not show up there then so be it. Even with three tombstones stacked I saw no difference in how my lvl 28 HoX played. If it is working as intended then fine.  Perfect  for those who do not care for any challenge or difficulty in their games I guess. If all you want to do is to kill time completing one level of quest so you can advance to the next level of quests with the least amount of difficulty possible you have the ideal game here.

By the way Open in a MMO the damage is computed server side not client side and I uninstalled with no intention of ever reinstalling the game ever again. I figure I have gave it three tries and three times found it boring. I was hoping the 1.05 would make the game interesting for me but it did not.

Enjoy the game fans

Does this mean your done posting stuff like this? Awesome.

Thanks for sharing, and enjoy your game of choice. (Not sure why you did not stay if it was that great to begin with...???)

AoC will survive!

On your last sentence just the fact that you needed to add it means that there must be some doubts there. I guess the third quarter figures will pretty much tell the tale won't they? The veteran campaign and 1.05 really is pretty much the last ball the pitcher has to throw out isn't it?

 

Well, I really didn't want to add the last part to be nice. But, since you insist.

AoC will survive without YOU.

Really, the complaints you have lodged here have been laughable. The game changes, and because you do not understand those changes or cannot comprehend, you decide to deride the game. But, all it is doing is making you look silly here...and everyone can see that as well. This is just another wasteful campaign.

I explained why you are having issues, but you are here complaining instead of trying the fixes I described. Your "visual" issue is 100% client side, as I stated. I do not have this problem, so if it IS server side, would I not see the same thing, or the many others who also have posted here?

The final piece in this nail coffin deal is you also make this claim with no proof to back it up. As I said at the beginning, its laughable.

So, I will say it once more for you. AoC will SURVIVE...without you, just as it has every other time you predicted it would fail

Now, if you are done, thanks for playing the forum game!

Omg people read Jackdog signiture and stop arguing :)

As for the AoC dead penalty or Lotro or WoW imo everything is crap, full loot / deleveling is the only way to go -> for my taste ofc.
Eve handles death penalty really good.

I would love if other MMO's adopted that like you have a way to "insure" your things so not everything is lost ( yea I know Iam a bit of carebear too but I will never admit it )

Well with this recent offer I returned to AoC and I must say that PvP mechanics are one of the best, lets leave aside there is no real point to fight except PvP levels/items but somehow that not enough of incentive.

And yes AoC will survive but on how many subs dunno but we all know once Funcom make something they are willing to run it for years like AO that is considered success with 20K subs so go figure.

I dont mind if AoC have 20K subs just make sure that in that case you have only 2 server and each have 10K of players.

Could care less if any of MMO Iam playing have 50K or 50m players all i need to have is populated server so its not the ghost town ( and aoc had quite few of those before the merges )