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heerobya
 Novice Member
Joined: 8/21/04
"What man is a man who does not make the world better?" |
Originally posted by altairzq
/thread Thanks What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. |
Originally posted by heerobya
/thread Thanks
standing still and pressing 1 -9?
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Originally posted by SXRchosen1
Yep, every youtube video I've seen of any major raid is pretty much people not moving at all. This is where I agree with the soloer's that epic encounters are not necessarily difficult to accomplish if you have a solid group makeup. Hopefully the one and probably only good thing that the industry takes from Warhammer, and City of Heroes did this somewhat as well with the mission architect, is PQ's. As technology, programming, and developers continue to evolve they will expand on this type of system to make encounters a lot more exciting and unpredictable therefore utilizing another way to up the challenge of them rather than just increasing hitpoints and damage. |
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Originally posted by Greenie
Yep, every youtube video I've seen of any major raid is pretty much people not moving at all. This is where I agree with the soloer's that epic encounters are not necessarily difficult to accomplish if you have a solid group makeup. Hopefully the one and probably only good thing that the industry takes from Warhammer, and City of Heroes did this somewhat as well with the mission architect, is PQ's. As technology, programming, and developers continue to evolve they will expand on this type of system to make encounters a lot more exciting and unpredictable therefore utilizing another way to up the challenge of them rather than just increasing hitpoints and damage.
Someone never played Cthun, Archimonde (easy but if you were with idiots, Oh God), Any boss in Sunwell... or watched any videos on them , probably a few bosses in Ulduar but i stopped playing before that. |
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Originally posted by heerobya
Finally, another old school MMO vet and veteran like myself who can bring some order and logic to these boards. Thanks Gameloading, I've missed you.
Let me talk plain- I started MMOs with Ultima Online when the game was still in Beta, playing on a friends account. I didn't have my own account and play really seriously until the Trammel / Felucca split, and I spent about half my time on the Atlantic server mostly on the PvE side (Trammel) until the Factions PvP system came out.
pfft...noob..I pvp'd on pacman, pk'd in space invaders, the version with the coloured overlay...thats how hardcore I am.
haha, I love how people throw around their mmo experience like some virtual schwang swinging in the wind
Blizzard do get it though. They cather to both the casual and the hardcore. See the success Diablo had. Very easy to understand and play but quite hard at hell difficulty, not to talk about pvp. Hell, even Diablo2 is still being played online ffs. That should say a thing or two about Blizzard as a developer. Yes, I know it was Blizzard North that made Diablo, but it was, and still is Blizzard who keep that game alive, and patch it now and then. |
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Does the OP believe everything he reads from a developer?? i mean what developer on this planet would tell you truth when in marketing mode?they 100% of the time ALWAYS hype up their game and tell the people what they want to hear,it is always marketing BS. This SC2 is actually the same over the head view garbage they do with Diablo and the overall quality of the engine is horrible.They are doing there usual rehash of old ideas and old game engines and trying to convince the dummies out there,they are getting something new and unique,neither is true. If Blizzard wa so sure of their ability and their game,they would have made SC2 years ago and not canceled it at least once,probably twice.I mean the SC:Ghost was already being made,and they purchased that company,so why did it disband?They only got brave enough,once the cash rolled in from WOW,to even consider a rehash of the older SC.If anyone of sane mind thinks WOW was HARDCORE,,rflmao,they need to give their head a shake,WOW is anything but,it was designed for the younger immature crowd.Blizzard actually designs their games for the EXACT opposite of what they are claiming,very funny how pathetic their marketing ploys are,yet even more amazing is how many buy into their BS. There is no longer 10 million brand new clueless gamers clammouring to get into the MMO crave,Blizzard must now try their marketing BS on more intelligent gamers and have a MUCH smaller crowd to try and fool.Their cheap designs,cheap game engines ,have very little chance of fooling people ever again.Once the masses leave WOW,Blizzard will once again be a struggling entity amongst the gaming community.There is always a very young crowd looking for simplistic,cheap games like Diablo,but there is far too many choices for that age group ,to hope Blizzard can lock them all up under their wing.Besides that Diablo type games are now old school,we have moved beyond that phase. Good thing they enticed Activision to partnership,they will need them down the road.If the rumors were correct about WOW's cost,then they must have a VERY inept loose ship for spending money,that game should have cost them VERY little to develope.They had the know how from former SOE staff,they had the template to copy[EQ],all they had to do is roll with it. The same will happen with SC2,they already have the template or game,i am sure you will be getting the left overs already designed by the developer Blizzard bought out the rights to SC:Ghost.Blizzard will be trying to sell the public a rehashed older game as something new..bah. |
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Originally posted by rello
Someone never played Cthun, Archimonde (easy but if you were with idiots, Oh God), Any boss in Sunwell... or watched any videos on them , probably a few bosses in Ulduar but i stopped playing before that.
I guess I was kind of vague in my response, but yea I just watched the Cthun raid,, and talking to a friend who was a hardcore raider in wow,, it's figuring out how to be the encounter that is the tough part and the challenging part. Once you've figured out the trick, it's just a rinse repeat cycle. That is why I wish there was a way for epic encounters to sort of random up, so what worked once, might not work next time. This is also why I prefer group vs group and RvR combat. Each battle is it's own challenge and no two are exactly alike. There is much more randomness involved. |
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Originally posted by Wizardry Sounds like a hate with no evidence. As for SC2 being 'rehased', why fix something that isn't broken? -TORMENT GAMING COMMUNITY- |
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Originally posted by Greenie
Someone never played Cthun, Archimonde (easy but if you were with idiots, Oh God), Any boss in Sunwell... or watched any videos on them , probably a few bosses in Ulduar but i stopped playing before that.
I guess I was kind of vague in my response, but yea I just watched the Cthun raid,, and talking to a friend who was a hardcore raider in wow,, it's figuring out how to be the encounter that is the tough part and the challenging part. Once you've figured out the trick, it's just a rinse repeat cycle. That is why I wish there was a way for epic encounters to sort of random up, so what worked once, might not work next time. This is also why I prefer group vs group and RvR combat. Each battle is it's own challenge and no two are exactly alike. There is much more randomness involved.
I learned a lot about how "easy" the stuff can be in WoW when I played it. Learn the script, follow the script, win the encounter. The "hard" part was gearing up to fight the encounters -- earlier on anyway. I haven't played the game since shortly after TBC shipped. When the encounters aren't known yet (as in someone hasn't said "here's how you do it"), you find entire servers unable to progress and mass complaints posted about "keeping secrets" and the like. Once someone lays out the first "winning" script to follow, others then vary it slightly and you end up with a few different tactics. Hell, when TBC first shipped there was nothing about the hard mode instances out there. I did a group and they hemmed and hawed about doing an encounter without instructions so I went to a wiki and posted our general thoughts on it as "tactics". I then told the group leader there was a tactic out there, he looked it up and was willing to try it... 2 shots and we beat the boss with him saying "I should post out the changes we found, that info wasn't fully complete on the fight..." That's how most of your fights go in WoW. Follow the instruction manual to beat it but don't try and figure it out yourself -- leave that up to the experts. *yawn* I'm not into the PvP stuff much. That's a "win-lose" scenario. There is no win-win in PvP. In PvE there is no loser in it. The 2 ways of playing are like mountain climbing versus football. Both can be team oriented but in 1, you'll always have a loser and I prefer winners all around. Oh, and yes, I have "ranked up" pretty well in PvP and run PvP raids and groups in different games. I just prefer a lot of cheering instead of "stomped those guys brains out!" because we had the better gear... |
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Originally posted by Eleazaros
Yea, I"ve been arguing with some other dude all day about gear making too much of a difference in pvp. At end game nowadays, there is generally one set of armor/weapons worth using and the others are crap. I don't know if PvP is a win-lose scenario. We used to fight tougher and better players in daoc 8 mans and the fight was what mattered in those situations. If we took down 1 or 2 players in those groups being much higher Realm Rank than our group we still had a sense of accomplishment. You don't get better by playing against people worse than you or AI. But that's the problem with a lot of anti-pvp'rs. They don't like and cant' handle losing. It's a mentality that permeates many games and even real life nowadays. People do not want competition. That is why they want overpowered gear. They use wiki's for encounters. They want to win all the time which to me is completely boring. There is no acheivement in doing something that you are gauranteed a win on. |
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Originally posted by Greenie
Yea, I"ve been arguing with some other dude all day about gear making too much of a difference in pvp. At end game nowadays, there is generally one set of armor/weapons worth using and the others are crap. I don't know if PvP is a win-lose scenario. We used to fight tougher and better players in daoc 8 mans and the fight was what mattered in those situations. If we took down 1 or 2 players in those groups being much higher Realm Rank than our group we still had a sense of accomplishment. You don't get better by playing against people worse than you or AI. But that's the problem with a lot of anti-pvp'rs. They don't like and cant' handle losing. It's a mentality that permeates many games and even real life nowadays. People do not want competition. That is why they want overpowered gear. They use wiki's for encounters. They want to win all the time which to me is completely boring. There is no acheivement in doing something that you are gauranteed a win on.
Actually you'd be amazed at how often PvE folks "lose". soloing -- dead. Group runs -- dead. Raid runs -- wipe. etc... They "lose" all the time in PvE just like PvP. The PvP myth that PvE folks just can't stand to lose is as inaccurate as the PvE myth that PvP has more griefers. *BOTH* are very inaccurate. They are 2 different styles of play based upon competition *AND* cooperation. In PvP you have as much (or more) group activity as you do in PvE -- it's more the goals of play that people like and dislike. To put this in perspective another way: If someone in PvE exploits a bug to beat an encounter, others will be "outraged" but in a far more detached fashion than when you got your butt handed to because your opponent exploited a bug. One is "unfair" from a distance while the other is right in your face with ranking, standing, gear loss, etc...
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Originally posted by Greenie
I would be opposed to that, there is no reason why people who spend more time in pvp should be more powerful than those who spend more time in PVE. |
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Originally posted by Gameloading
I would be opposed to that, there is no reason why people who spend more time in pvp should be more powerful than those who spend more time in PVE.
So you're saying that time committed is greater than difficulty? Otherwise, why should someone who PVE's be more powerful than someone who spends more time in PvP ? Also in a previous post you said you like to see a significant increase in power when you find a rare item that you've worked hard for. Well someone who PVP's and earns greater power through those means has worked hard and in some cases you could say had to work harder because they don't win every fight and sure don't win as many fights as someone who is doing a pve encounter. Why the double standard? |
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Originally posted by Retrad
Of course Blizzard is hardcore. It took months for ONE guild to achieve the Ulduar final boss achievement ... and of ALL things it was A Chinese guild to do it. You know the ones that are not even supposed to be playing it :)))). Blizzard is the absolute master of active paid subscriptions and having the number one PC best seller of 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, ... It is a jack of all trades and a master in all. It owns MORE than all other PC games combined. And OP: of course their target is the hardcore public. No one in these pages could even achieve the hardest fights in WotLK 3.1 and 3.2 is already in within a few weeks. ALL BIG mouths, but NO skills. That's very clear when I look at the armory. :)))
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Originally posted by Greenie
Yea, I"ve been arguing with some other dude all day about gear making too much of a difference in pvp. At end game nowadays, there is generally one set of armor/weapons worth using and the others are crap. I don't know if PvP is a win-lose scenario. We used to fight tougher and better players in daoc 8 mans and the fight was what mattered in those situations. If we took down 1 or 2 players in those groups being much higher Realm Rank than our group we still had a sense of accomplishment. You don't get better by playing against people worse than you or AI. But that's the problem with a lot of anti-pvp'rs. They don't like and cant' handle losing. It's a mentality that permeates many games and even real life nowadays. People do not want competition. That is why they want overpowered gear. They use wiki's for encounters. They want to win all the time which to me is completely boring. There is no acheivement in doing something that you are gauranteed a win on. Yeah - Lovely - I was just bringing up another low level (12) alt in WoW and was running my new Night Elf Hunter with his Durotar Tiger pet (Yeah a HORDE pet at level 12 - WHICH I GOT BY SOLOING) - when I ran into a GAGGLE of troops trying to take out the three baddies at the Pumpkin farm in SE Elwin Forest (a failed Lock without a pet and 2 fighter types. (They had to get her necklace back) By the time I got there this GROUP of FIVE misfits - including a level 12 PALLY who was almost dead - and they had lost two others already - were beating on the two fighter type baddies - while the female who was the object of the quest in the first place was nuking all of them from the rear. I suppose I should have just stood around and watched while the whole crew got their butts wiped out, but care-bear me I just put a couple of arrows into her and the other two and ended the (FIGHT?) I have done this same quest several tomes SOLO with a level 10 Lock and just my imp . When are these MORONS going to learn how to play their class without relying on a HERD of troops to do the job for them? And these IDIOTS are ragging on ME for not wanting to group? And why the hell SHOULD NOT the SOLOER get all the goodies if they do ALL the work?
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Blizzard always gets it, and they never get it either.
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Kyleran
 Elite Member
Joined: 9/13/06
"In EVE, no one gives a damn about a fair fight." - chafin |
Originally posted by Zorndorf
Of course Blizzard is hardcore. It took months for ONE guild to achieve the Ulduar final boss achievement ... and of ALL things it was A Chinese guild to do it. You know the ones that are not even supposed to be playing it :)))). Blizzard is the absolute master of active paid subscriptions and having the number one PC best seller of 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, ... It is a jack of all trades and a master in all. It owns MORE than all other PC games combined. And OP: of course their target is the hardcore public. No one in these pages could even achieve the hardest fights in WotLK 3.1 and 3.2 is already in within a few weeks. ALL BIG mouths, but NO skills. That's very clear when I look at the armory. :)))
Of course it took months for a guild to complete WOW's hardest quest, no one with any real skill still plays WOW, what did you expect? You make it too easy. The sub numbers are relevant only in terms of how popular the game it is, and not how "good" the game is. All depends on how you define good, and WOW fails in many places depending how you look at it. But you never accept that.
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon EVE Cult member since May 2007 Regarding EVE: "To be honest, I think God himself created this game." - Shek Regarding new players in EVE: "Think of yourself as a child released into a park full of pedophiles..." - Eleazaros |
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If Blizzard really did get it, SC2 would have a LAN option.
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Originally posted by Kyleran
Of course it took months for a guild to complete WOW's hardest quest, no one with any real skill still plays WOW, what did you expect? You make it too easy. The sub numbers are relevant only in terms of how popular the game it is, and not how "good" the game is. All depends on how you define good, and WOW fails in many places depending how you look at it. But you never accept that.
No you are taking the easy road. The game is not only popular it is ... SUCCESFUL. Bringing in over 1.2 BILLION dollars of revenu each year. You know that's quite a difference: being popular or being succesful. That's the difference between being a popular pop singer and being the King of a genre. Being popular is one thing, but being PLAYED MOST with a fixed monthly subscription fee attached to it strikes another chord. That's succcesful. The game single handedly created the present day MMORPG business in what once was a very laggy, hampered, dull animated and poorly developped game industry. That is and always was the Blizzard factor. Call it popular, but that doesn't do it justice. Call it succesful as THE most single succesful game in the 30 years video game industry ever developped (as in .... dollars). See the difference? And now you know why copies won't make the cut...at all.
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Originally posted by Eleazaros Congratulations! You have just discovered the process of playing against a video game. P.S. Wizardry is so full of fail, its mind boggling where he gets his ideas from.
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Originally posted by TheHavok Congratulations! You have just discovered the process of playing against a video game. P.S. Wizardry is so full of fail, its mind boggling where he gets his ideas from.
The problem is ... in WOTLK you have half a dozen "different "fights to bosses: it is called downing the bosses in various hard modes and getting better gear and achievements/titles. And with 25 people it is about coordination. ------ >It is like a dancing contest: even with the steps known .... one or two people "out of step" makes for some very nasty surprises in the dancing contest. Those who downplay Ulduar PVE achievements indeed never made the grade. The tric was to include "hardest modes" so it takes sometimes months to have a first world down, so the videos don't help much in the first weeks :)))). And no the hardest modes are not "simply" more health to bosses, but sometimes complete different tactics used. As shown by 99.99999% of the armory.
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Originally posted by Zorndorf
In other world, they make the content seems like a lot more buy using the same content several times with different difficulty... Am I the only one that thinks that is very lazy from the richest MMO company in the world? Sure, Guildwars does the same thing but killing the same boss many times are still boring no matter how much the difficulty increase (and when I say many I mean many, you also have to actually get the gear). To me it sounds like they are filling out the content as much as possible while they are working on their new game. |
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Originally posted by Greenie
I would be opposed to that, there is no reason why people who spend more time in pvp should be more powerful than those who spend more time in PVE.
So you're saying that time committed is greater than difficulty? Otherwise, why should someone who PVE's be more powerful than someone who spends more time in PvP ? Also in a previous post you said you like to see a significant increase in power when you find a rare item that you've worked hard for. Well someone who PVP's and earns greater power through those means has worked hard and in some cases you could say had to work harder because they don't win every fight and sure don't win as many fights as someone who is doing a pve encounter. Why the double standard?
It's not double standard. There is no reason why top end PVP gear should be stronger than top end PVE gear. |
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Originally posted by Loke666
In other world, they make the content seems like a lot more buy using the same content several times with different difficulty... Am I the only one that thinks that is very lazy from the richest MMO company in the world? Sure, Guildwars does the same thing but killing the same boss many times are still boring no matter how much the difficulty increase (and when I say many I mean many, you also have to actually get the gear). To me it sounds like they are filling out the content as much as possible while they are working on their new game.
In fact the turnout of new content and mechanics was never more than these last months. Go see patch 3.2 that is almost ready to be published and comes 4 months on the heels of Ulduar and 3 months after the dual specs of all classes. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/242838/So-what-do-we-get-in-patch-32.html It is so fast these days, players can hardly track the new added changes. Not even talking of the changing game mechanics: Dual classes on the fly, gear equipments changes in one sec (in patch 3.2 even with portable bank gear sets), Experience through PvP, joining BG's from anywhere, new BG's, 5 men, 10 men 25 men, heroic versions of them, added solo content. The fact you can simply shut down experience gains and leveling through pure PvP ... in THE game that was based on PVE experience gains, shows a lot of changes you aren't even aware of. |
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Originally posted by Gameloading
It's not double standard. There is no reason why top end PVP gear should be stronger than top end PVE gear.
But why not? If group gear should exceed solo gear based on the time investment or difficulty of getting these power upgrades, then PvP gear by that same argument SHOULD be more powerful. The time investment and the difficulty to reach those ranks is greater than a group's raid. Where one might take a few hours or days,, one might take weeks or months in pvp to accomplish. So groupers although it takes them LESS time to accomplish something than a soloer or a pvp'r in their respective fields of gameplay style and generally speaking groupers have an easier time accomploshing their tasks (once they have a group and the wiki raid info, which you know they will usually) deserve better gear than other player's in game.
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