Due to my excitement over FFXIV, I decided to resub to FFXI.  I started over again as I couldn't find the account info for my old high level Beast Master (BST).  What a pleasant surprise, I rolled a Taru Taru Red Mage (RDM)  and I have been able to easily and casually solo, thus far, to 18.  Soloing, while certainly risky, is much easier and the leveling speed much quicker.

I think perhaps if SE would just polish up what they have put into FFXI for soloing and put that into FFXIV that would be sufficient.

Specifically, I think the break down should be something like this:

1. NO job should be able to solo so well that a party would be undesirable.  But some jobs should be able to effectively solo.

2. ALL jobs should be balanced for group rather than solo play.  This means some jobs, such as RDM and BST in FFXI, will solo better than others. 

3. ALL primary storyline quests should be group only.  No start solo and later have to get a group to finish, group all the way.

4. Side quest lines can be a mix of group and solo, but should be one or the other for the whole of the questline.

5. Job specific quests should be solo instance only.

6. Crafting should be soloable but a little dangerous.

7. NO death penalty if you die in a group.  If you die solo, same penalty as FFXI.

These are my suggestions, I am sure others can think of better ones.

Campaign/Besieged = 'soloing' but grouping at the same time... perfect.

I wouldn't mind if SE abandoned the whole FoV idea with Campaign v2 that is truly Epic compared to what we see in FFXI. The game should be designed with that type of encounters in mind.

Originally posted by SKIPADI

Due to my excitement over FFXIV, I decided to resub to FFXI.  I started over again as I couldn't find the account info for my old high level Beast Master (BST).  What a pleasant surprise, I rolled a Taru Taru Red Mage (RDM)  and I have been able to easily and casually solo, thus far, to 18.  Soloing, while certainly risky, is much easier and the leveling speed much quicker.

I think perhaps if SE would just polish up what they have put into FFXI for soloing and put that into FFXIV that would be sufficient.

Specifically, I think the break down should be something like this:

1. NO job should be able to solo so well that a party would be undesirable.  But some jobs should be able to effectively solo.

I guess I can go for this but it cant be too effective or those jobs will never group and your group pt will suffer because they cant fill that role.

2. ALL jobs should be balanced for group rather than solo play.  This means some jobs, such as RDM and BST in FFXI, will solo better than others. 

BST shouldnt be balanced for group play because its a solo based class, cant give a class the best of both worlds or all you will see is that class.

3. ALL primary storyline quests should be group only.  No start solo and later have to get a group to finish, group all the way.

Ill agree with this

4. Side quest lines can be a mix of group and solo, but should be one or the other for the whole of the questline.

Sometimes a mix is good.

5. Job specific quests should be solo instance only.

I strongly agree with this, and i will add to it by sugesting making expanding on them to where its not a 15 min event.

6. Crafting should be soloable but a little dangerous.

Ill agree

7. NO death penalty if you die in a group.  If you die solo, same penalty as FFXI.

There has to be a death penalty for death period. It should be something to be feared. You dont want to die do you?

These are my suggestions, I am sure others can think of better ones.

 

 

I want SE to reward people who play in partys but not force them which FFXI is doing today. And if you have good solo play and good party play the only think you need to do to make people play in partys is make it faster. If a person wants to level to max level fast party should be the way, but not in anyway forced.

I would also like to see two kinds of quests the casual and the epic where as you can solo casual quests but need a party for the epic ones.

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by SKIPADI

Due to my excitement over FFXIV, I decided to resub to FFXI.  I started over again as I couldn't find the account info for my old high level Beast Master (BST).  What a pleasant surprise, I rolled a Taru Taru Red Mage (RDM)  and I have been able to easily and casually solo, thus far, to 18.  Soloing, while certainly risky, is much easier and the leveling speed much quicker.

I think perhaps if SE would just polish up what they have put into FFXI for soloing and put that into FFXIV that would be sufficient.

Specifically, I think the break down should be something like this:

1. NO job should be able to solo so well that a party would be undesirable.  But some jobs should be able to effectively solo.

I guess I can go for this but it cant be too effective or those jobs will never group and your group pt will suffer because they cant fill that role.

True, but at least one job, like BST in FFXI,  must be able to.

2. ALL jobs should be balanced for group rather than solo play.  This means some jobs, such as RDM and BST in FFXI, will solo better than others. 

BST shouldnt be balanced for group play because its a solo based class, cant give a class the best of both worlds or all you will see is that class.

True, but if such a job existed it could be used to help get some soloists to try grouping.  Your concern is certainly valid though.

3. ALL primary storyline quests should be group only.  No start solo and later have to get a group to finish, group all the way.

Ill agree with this

4. Side quest lines can be a mix of group and solo, but should be one or the other for the whole of the questline.

Sometimes a mix is good.

5. Job specific quests should be solo instance only.

I strongly agree with this, and i will add to it by sugesting making expanding on them to where its not a 15 min event.

6. Crafting should be soloable but a little dangerous.

Ill agree

7. NO death penalty if you die in a group.  If you die solo, same penalty as FFXI.

There has to be a death penalty for death period. It should be something to be feared. You dont want to die do you?

It is selfish of me as a soloist to want to keep the excitement for myself, but I was trying to come up with a tangible advantage for grouping.  I suppose faster leveling, or whatever advancement system is used would do.

These are my suggestions, I am sure others can think of better ones.

 

 

 

7. NO death penalty if you die in a group. If you die solo, same penalty as FFXI.

I Dissagree 100%

The only thing needing to be changed is No DeLvling.

If you want less XP loss If Rezed by a friend in the party then thats fine But Death Penalty Needs to be in the game.

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

7. NO death penalty if you die in a group. If you die solo, same penalty as FFXI.

I Dissagree 100%

The only thing needing to be changed is No DeLvling.

If you want less XP loss If Rezed by a friend in the party then thats fine But Death Penalty Needs to be in the game.

you have to keep de-lvling otherwise once you hit cap there is nothing to fear. no need to xp anymore. Keep the ffxi death penalty as is IMO

Originally posted by ZalKin

I want SE to reward people who play in partys but not force them which FFXI is doing today. And if you have good solo play and good party play the only think you need to do to make people play in partys is make it faster. If a person wants to level to max level fast party should be the way, but not in anyway forced.

I would also like to see two kinds of quests the casual and the epic where as you can solo casual quests but need a party for the epic ones.

I disagree.  FFXI would not be the great game that it is without forced grouping.  There's hundreds of MMO's that you can solo in... feel free to play one of those.  No need to destroy one of the great things about FFXI just to cater to the people who don't like grouping.  Hopefully SE will realize this with FFXIV.

You can't make an MMORPG that's satisfies both crowds. Sure you can have solo content and group content in the same game, but that's not the same as saying you've pleased both types of people. It's not about being able to solo vs. being able to group, it's about being able to solo vs. HAVING to group. Don't confuse the two. There's a world of difference between games that have solo & group content and those that have forced grouping... the community being a very notable one.

No one is forcing anyone to group in any game. If the game does not offer the specific playstyle you choose or have time for there are many other games to choose from. Playing a game that does not reflect your playstyle, then lobbying for it to change just ruins the game for those that have chosen to play it because it does match their playstyle.

I have much less time than I used to, its part of life and at some point you have to accept that you cannot do the same things today you did a year, 2 years, 3 years ago. If I truly enjoy and want to play a game that is more time intensive then my real life will permit, I will play and accomplish what I can within the contstraints of my time and the game. You cannot expect to play a game and have everything other players have because they have more time to invest than you. Where did the feeling of entitlement come from? The expectation that a game has to be all things to all players or its not fair?

Games are much like anything else in life, you get out of it what you put into it.
 

Originally posted by Sixpax

Originally posted by ZalKin

I want SE to reward people who play in partys but not force them which FFXI is doing today. And if you have good solo play and good party play the only think you need to do to make people play in partys is make it faster. If a person wants to level to max level fast party should be the way, but not in anyway forced.

I would also like to see two kinds of quests the casual and the epic where as you can solo casual quests but need a party for the epic ones.

 

I disagree.  FFXI would not be the great game that it is without forced grouping.  There's hundreds of MMO's that you can solo in... feel free to play one of those.  No need to destroy one of the great things about FFXI just to cater to the people who don't like grouping.  Hopefully SE will realize this with FFXIV.

You can't make an MMORPG that's satisfies both crowds. Sure you can have solo content and group content in the same game, but that's not the same as saying you've pleased both types of people. It's not about being able to solo vs. being able to group, it's about being able to solo vs. HAVING to group. Don't confuse the two. There's a world of difference between games that have solo & group content and those that have forced grouping... the community being a very notable one.

Well i don't really think this is the way SE thinks. They want to make an apealing game for all players, because thats where the money is. SE has already told us that they are looking at games like wow, war and aoc. All does games has both solo and group content, and i think that what SE it trying to achieve. The thing a loved with FFXI was the grouping, the thing i hated was to have to wait for 1 h just to find one. If you have the quality of FFXI grouping system and throws in solo content that would be awesome.

I really doubt SE is after some sort of group loving niche market. I heard it's easier now but when I played FFXI at release soloing was like having someone repeatedly kick you in the crotch. It doesn't matter all that much to me whether they do it or not, there are other MMOs coming out that I'm far more interested in but I would probably give this one a good try if they have a sane solo experience.

Originally posted by jusomdude

I really doubt SE is after some sort of group loving niche market. I heard it's easier now but when I played FFXI at release soloing was like having someone repeatedly kick you in the crotch. It doesn't matter all that much to me whether they do it or not, there are other MMOs coming out that I'm far more interested in but I would probably give this one a good try if they have a sane solo experience.

Actually ... SE is after some sort of group loving niche market. Remember this is a japanese game. A cutlure that is more about the group/family/nucleus over the individual. They never hit that fact; they threw it out there at level 10 when you needed to group up to kill mobs. You got the shit beat out of you when you tried to solo because you tried to solo. The idea would be that you learn your lesson and join a party.

Honestly I don't get the people who come into FFXI and then bitch that they can't solo it. First why are you paying month per month to play and online game solo ... but really: This is a group based game. It is like walking into a library and not understanding why people tell you to stop screaming. You could walk into a library and start beating a drum if you wanted, you just are not using the library for what it is used for. But then to turn around and bitch to the librarian and the people trying to study that the library should let you beat your drum is at best disrespectful. Equate it to bitching about getting a fine for smoking while you are under a "No Smoking" sign.

My guess is FFXIV is going to have very limited soloability and the "casual" aspect of the game is going to allow you to jump in and out of exp party very quickly as apposed to FFXI where people can wait for hour so they can set up the perfect party.

---

Originally posted by ZalKin

 

Well i don't really think this is the way SE thinks. They want to make an apealing game for all players, because thats where the money is.

---

By that logic, all restaurants should strive to be McDonald's since that's where the (most) money is. No thanks. I've said it before, I'll say it again... I want another Benihana's, not another McDonald's.

---

Originally posted by ZalKin

 

If you have the quality of FFXI grouping system and throws in solo content that would be awesome.

---

But you can't have it both ways... that's the point. So much of FFXI's quality was based on the fact that it was forced grouping. You can't just open it up to be solo friendly and have the same quality game. It affects so many things from combat, to crafting, to community, to the jobs themselves.

Originally posted by ic0n67

Originally posted by jusomdude

I really doubt SE is after some sort of group loving niche market. I heard it's easier now but when I played FFXI at release soloing was like having someone repeatedly kick you in the crotch. It doesn't matter all that much to me whether they do it or not, there are other MMOs coming out that I'm far more interested in but I would probably give this one a good try if they have a sane solo experience.

 

Actually ... SE is after some sort of group loving niche market. Remember this is a japanese game. A cutlure that is more about the group/family/nucleus over the individual. They never hit that fact; they threw it out there at level 10 when you needed to group up to kill mobs. You got the shit beat out of you when you tried to solo because you tried to solo. The idea would be that you learn your lesson and join a party.

Honestly I don't get the people who come into FFXI and then bitch that they can't solo it. First why are you paying month per month to play and online game solo ... but really: This is a group based game. It is like walking into a library and not understanding why people tell you to stop screaming. You could walk into a library and start beating a drum if you wanted, you just are not using the library for what it is used for. But then to turn around and bitch to the librarian and the people trying to study that the library should let you beat your drum is at best disrespectful. Equate it to bitching about getting a fine for smoking while you are under a "No Smoking" sign.

My guess is FFXIV is going to have very limited soloability and the "casual" aspect of the game is going to allow you to jump in and out of exp party very quickly as apposed to FFXI where people can wait for hour so they can set up the perfect party.

/cheer

*love the library analogy

Originally posted by ic0n67

Originally posted by jusomdude

I really doubt SE is after some sort of group loving niche market. I heard it's easier now but when I played FFXI at release soloing was like having someone repeatedly kick you in the crotch. It doesn't matter all that much to me whether they do it or not, there are other MMOs coming out that I'm far more interested in but I would probably give this one a good try if they have a sane solo experience.

 

Actually ... SE is after some sort of group loving niche market. Remember this is a japanese game. A cutlure that is more about the group/family/nucleus over the individual. They never hit that fact; they threw it out there at level 10 when you needed to group up to kill mobs. You got the shit beat out of you when you tried to solo because you tried to solo. The idea would be that you learn your lesson and join a party.

Honestly I don't get the people who come into FFXI and then bitch that they can't solo it. First why are you paying month per month to play and online game solo ... but really: This is a group based game. It is like walking into a library and not understanding why people tell you to stop screaming. You could walk into a library and start beating a drum if you wanted, you just are not using the library for what it is used for. But then to turn around and bitch to the librarian and the people trying to study that the library should let you beat your drum is at best disrespectful. Equate it to bitching about getting a fine for smoking while you are under a "No Smoking" sign.

My guess is FFXIV is going to have very limited soloability and the "casual" aspect of the game is going to allow you to jump in and out of exp party very quickly as apposed to FFXI where people can wait for hour so they can set up the perfect party.

Well, that's lovely and all I think I will go do those things in your analogy, though it came straight from SE that they're aiming to cater more to the casual market this time around, so you just might have to share some of your candy this time.
 

Maybe they'll offer a "party on demand" thing which I wouldn't mind, but I doubt that will resolve any issue for those that don't want to party or perish.

Sometimes people just want to sit back and mindlessly grind, and if SE doesn't want to cater to those folks, they may as well stop making a sequal right now. I can't imagine they're making it just to get some box sales to their current customers, if that were the case they could just make an expansion.

what you can't explain to most of these folks who are pro group/anti solo..

is that we like to group!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll repeat it again in all caps.. so the point is made.

I F'ING LOVE TO GROUP!!!!

What I don't love is waiting for an hr or 2, doing absolutely nothing trying to get to the point where I can. I don't enjoy getting into a group and then 10 minutes later it disbands because the tanks mother wants him to wash up for dinner. (At the same time, they probably won't like it when I join a group for a end game event and have to leave 3 hrs into it because I refuse to play that long on a computer game).

What is being asked, is that there be "OPTIONS" of play, rather than just "do it this way, or don't play". If I go to Burger King, I can order a whopper any way I want it, with the "OPTIONS" they have. FFXI had no options until recently, you had to eat your burger with whatever the hell they wanted you to have on it. So, too bad if you don't like the taste of onions.

I want a whopper with cheese, pickles, and mustard and ketchup.

and If I want to leave off the mayo or onions (grouping and long play events) I ought to be able to do so, without consequence.

The problem is, all the hardcore players just have this false idea that we don't want to do anything but Solo in the game.. and thats not even close to right.

What we want, is the ability to play the game from the minute we get on, without long periods of doing nothing but twiddling our thumbs. If you can figure out a way to do that, without solo content. I'm all for it.

I do believe FF14 is trying to find that "window" and when they do, they might just have something awesome.

Many of us would still be playing games like FFXI now, if it wasn't so demanding of time. We like to group, and want to group.. but there needs to be a more efficient way to get it done.

Now I can't speak for every FF game prior to VII but every FF game from VII on were party based with some solo content. Seriously why would they put the most successful series of game in a state that would change it entirely of what it is known for? Now if they make it solo then why pay for a broken chain?

I hope they keep it mostly group play and not steer aay from the way the series is. If they wanted to make a solo game then why put Final Fantasy as the title? I say keep it group based but make it much easier to find a party.

Originally posted by Lexin

 If they wanted to make a solo game then why put Final Fantasy as the title?

Last time i checked, i solo'ed FF7 by myself, and FF6 oh and FF5 and 8 oh and FF9... wait you had a point? The actual reason they included FF in the title is because it'll utilise everything that makes final fantasy from moogles to chocobo's. (which is why every FF is based on an entirely different planet/universe etc etc)

Gee, did yuo have to actually "think" with that one ;)

SE want to make money, i'd rather have some solo content as waiting for 2 hours in a PUG, not my idea of fun.. and have you ever tried getting your friends on at exactly the same time everytime when your online. You speak madness and crazy talk.

There must be balance between group, raid and solo. No balance = few population = less quality content and less content = crappy game.

I ripped and got a blizzard eu blue moved by destorying her opinions on grouping only, it was the tauren female ;) no one remembers her name now. heh.

This is why we don't eat the same food day in, day out for the rest of our lifes... variety is the spice of life, engage that grey matter you don't use much ;)

You'll have "some solo content" no worry. But I laugh at any1 who thinks this game will be solo onry like they would  wish. 

It's made by same ppl as FFXI, for fans of FFXI, for japanese group friendly player base.You get  the idea.  They won't switch game focus to exact opposite.

Originally posted by describable

Originally posted by Lexin

 If they wanted to make a solo game then why put Final Fantasy as the title?

 

Last time i checked, i solo'ed FF7 by myself, and FF6 oh and FF5 and 8 oh and FF9... wait you had a point? The actual reason they included FF in the title is because it'll utilise everything that makes final fantasy from moogles to chocobo's. (which is why every FF is based on an entirely different planet/universe etc etc)

Gee, did yuo have to actually "think" with that one ;)

SE want to make money, i'd rather have some solo content as waiting for 2 hours in a PUG, not my idea of fun.. and have you ever tried getting your friends on at exactly the same time everytime when your online. You speak madness and crazy talk.

There must be balance between group, raid and solo. No balance = few population = less quality content and less content = crappy game.

I ripped and got a blizzard eu blue moved by destorying her opinions on grouping only, it was the tauren female ;) no one remembers her name now. heh.

This is why we don't eat the same food day in, day out for the rest of our lifes... variety is the spice of life, engage that grey matter you don't use much ;)

I totally understand where you're coming from and could even I agree with you that there should definitely be solo content to do while LFG and if you don't have time to play for a large amount of time and even some solo story arcs for endgame. However, proving your point by saying you "soloed" FF7,FF6,FF5, etc. etc. etc. doesn't really prove much of a point. I mean, did you beat those games with only one character? No. Just because you're controlling all the characters like in an offline RPG doesn't mean it's not a group based venture. It's still party play haha. This is exactly why they made FFXI party based and more than likely they'll make FFXIV party based, however hopefully it will be easier to group and they do add some more solo content, more than from FFXI.
 

Originally posted by describable

Originally posted by Lexin

 If they wanted to make a solo game then why put Final Fantasy as the title?

 

Last time i checked, i solo'ed FF7 by myself, and FF6 oh and FF5 and 8 oh and FF9... wait you had a point? The actual reason they included FF in the title is because it'll utilise everything that makes final fantasy from moogles to chocobo's. (which is why every FF is based on an entirely different planet/universe etc etc)

Gee, did yuo have to actually "think" with that one ;)

SE want to make money, i'd rather have some solo content as waiting for 2 hours in a PUG, not my idea of fun.. and have you ever tried getting your friends on at exactly the same time everytime when your online. You speak madness and crazy talk.

There must be balance between group, raid and solo. No balance = few population = less quality content and less content = crappy game.

I ripped and got a blizzard eu blue moved by destorying her opinions on grouping only, it was the tauren female ;) no one remembers her name now. heh.

This is why we don't eat the same food day in, day out for the rest of our lifes... variety is the spice of life, engage that grey matter you don't use much ;)

Sorry, seems you missed the point. In all of the FF games, the only time you solo'd was in certain parts of the game when it was one character vs another. Other than that, you're in a party. The only difference between XI and the others is that someone else is controlling the other party members instead of you. So unless you killed off all your party memebers except one, and beat the game that way in every FF, you didn't solo it. If it's all solo, it's not FF is the point.

Don't try to make other people look stupid when you're doing the same thing yourself.

I'm all for group content because that was a great way to meet cool people and A holes to avoid.  I do hope they add a lil something to do while lfg and for those who have only like a few hours to play due to work or school.  Making it so you can solo from 1 to max is something I don't want to see. 

Originally posted by raystantz

What is being asked, is that there be "OPTIONS" of play, rather than just "do it this way, or don't play". If I go to Burger King, I can order a whopper any way I want it, with the "OPTIONS" they have. FFXI had no options until recently, you had to eat your burger with whatever the hell they wanted you to have on it. So, too bad if you don't like the taste of onions.

I want a whopper with cheese, pickles, and mustard and ketchup.

and If I want to leave off the mayo or onions (grouping and long play events) I ought to be able to do so, without consequence.

Options are fine to an extent, but often times what the players *think* they want doesn't make a better game. Here's an example of "options" from other MMORPG's that I dare say would turn off the FF players:

1) Dueling in towns.

2) Conditional (if/then) and looping macros that perform any/every action for you without having to think.

3) Power-leveling.

4) FFA PvP.

5) Multi-clienting (i.e. being able to control numerous characters from one keyboard/mouse).

I can definitely relate to the problems people talk about with forced grouping, but what I don't think they are considering are the ramafications of having the game be completely soloable.  I honestly don't believe you can satisfy both crowds.  One or the other is going to suffer.

Originally posted by Sixpax

Originally posted by raystantz

What is being asked, is that there be "OPTIONS" of play, rather than just "do it this way, or don't play". If I go to Burger King, I can order a whopper any way I want it, with the "OPTIONS" they have. FFXI had no options until recently, you had to eat your burger with whatever the hell they wanted you to have on it. So, too bad if you don't like the taste of onions.

I want a whopper with cheese, pickles, and mustard and ketchup.

and If I want to leave off the mayo or onions (grouping and long play events) I ought to be able to do so, without consequence.

 

Options are fine to an extent, but often times what the players *think* they want doesn't make a better game. Here's an example of "options" from other MMORPG's that I dare say would turn off the FF players:

1) Dueling in towns.

2) Conditional (if/then) and looping macros that perform any/every action for you without having to think.

3) Power-leveling.

4) FFA PvP.

5) Multi-clienting (i.e. being able to control numerous characters from one keyboard/mouse).

I can definitely relate to the problems people talk about with forced grouping, but what I don't think they are considering are the ramafications of having the game be completely soloable.  I honestly don't believe you can satisfy both crowds.  One or the other is going to suffer.

I agree. Someones playstyle is going to suffer. In this particular case I believe it will be the solo crowd. I believe that the "solo game play" has only been implemented for the purpose that someone does not have to wait 30mins-1hour to party. It will give them the opportunity to solo and will not provide a lot of xp as say grouping (Parties) would. Square knows that the group play made a big impression on a lot of its users and im glad that they are providing some kind of option. Unfortunately, those that want solo will get it, i just dont think its going to be what they want. It is only an alternative. But again that is my opinion and i can be completely wrong. But lets call it a hunch.

FFXI and Solo in the same sentence? Maybe you are playing a different Final Fantasy 11 than I am. Yes, with the FoV's and all that soloing up to 20 or maybe even 30 is alot easier, but outside a few jobs the word Solo still doesn't really exist in this game. This is coming from someone who plays both types of jobs, BST, DNC, RDM, BRD, COR, NIN I have experience in all fields of FFXI. Also one of your number posts said you should only lose exp if you are soloing? How about no more Deleveling? That sounds 100% times better to me, but also it has already been said that FF14 is most likely not going to be a traditional system, there will be no "Levels" in this game but traditional means.  Here look at this link of confirmed details on FF14 and maybe this shall shine some light on stuff you are wondering about.

http://www.final-fantasy-14.org/ff14-content/levelling-system/