Please, seriously stop with "This game will kill World of Warcraft." WoW is already dying on its own... I have not even read the OP's thread and I am telling everyone this.. I mean sure, a lot of games are looking similar to World of Warcraft, they are trying to take after WoW's success by trying to make a game to beat it.. This is actually why all those games like Age of Conan, Warhammer, etc.. Are failing... If a company wants to take all the WoW subs then they have to move as far from WoW as you can get.. Look at EVE, the sub base is still growing they started with around 30,000 and now have around 250,000 subs..

I am sick of the "OMG, THIS GAME LOOKS LIKE WOW!" Ya it does, and that is why it will suck.. World of Warcraft sucks, I did not like the game, and I generally did not like anything that copied it..

Originally posted by Compwinner

I made a poll in the Pub. And I thoroughly disagree. Even if these new MMOs are offering the same thing, they offer it in a different enivornment with different names etc and since they are next gen, better graphics and better mechanics that make use of technology. You're argument makes me think that you believe all these new MMOs are simply WoW clones. The thing is they will one day offer the same thing but slightly better. I mean the person who said wow will dominate for many years to come. What about in 5-10 years when playing WoW may seem like SNES graphics ? I'm not sure it can last that long.

 

Anyway discuss!

Graphics doesn't mean jack. Just take a look at UO, AO, EQ1, AC1, FFXI, DAOC, etc.

All these games are still going and aren't going to close down any time soon. Hence, EQ1 gets another Expansion pack!

WoW wasn't really new either. It just happened to release at the right moment, at the right time, with the right features and content people liked.

On top of that. Almost litterly everyone could run the game. Even people with PC's out of the stone age.

Next Gen graphics and use of New technology means also that you exclude a massive amount of potential players. As of yet I still have to see a MMO release (after WoW) that has such scalable NextGen graphics, so people with low end system could scale it down to a level they can run the game at an acceptable level.

That's what made WoW a huge success. We can hate it or like it. That's how it is.

Not everyone is a Rage Nerd that can wave with his / her daddy's/mommy's creditcard and buys the latest hardware nor willing to do it or does feel the need to it.

I myself love fancy graphics and have a decent computer system to support it. But I accept that I am a vast minority in this and that most of the gamers are no upgrade junkies nor have the funding for it or willing to spend it!

So any new MMO releasing right now that wants to be succesful needs to offer something trully unique and different, then just fancy graphics or just a different environment.

Or people get burned out and just keep falling back to their old MMO they came from.

Cheers

Originally posted by lionrwal

Reason 1: This game is very much similar to Knights of the Old Republic, one of the best Star Wars games EVAH!!!! It's also made by Bioware, the makers of K.O.T.O.R., are making this game.

Reason 2: This game will revolutionize MMOs because you will not feel like you are grinding, and the quests(called missions in The Old Republic)will not be like, "Go and kill 10 acklays" or "Collect one krayt dragon hide." The missions will be like, "Go slice into the computer to take over the ship."

Reason 3: Several gaming sites have already written reviews on this game, and they are all good. One site even states,"As the force-choked trooper slides across the ground, clutching is neck, it becomes obvious; this game is a WoW killer."

 

as much as i like star wars and want to believe that swtor gonna rock....

you cant throw reason 1 for granted. you never know what shitty game we gonna get. there is always the first time fail.

also not everybody likes starwars... thus its mostly for us sci-fi fans. then again a lot of sci-fi fans are divided as well (some ppl like startrek, others stargate etc). so you cannot just point a theme (star wars) and say that its gonna win for sure.

reason 2 - telling that the game will have no grind is a lie. well not neccesarily a lie, but if there is nothing to back the argument up - its worthless. we dont know how those quests are gonna play. slicing into computer to take over the ship. hmmm that sounds like a lot of instanced quests from DDO. DDO is grindy as well while it doesnt have any 'collect 10 spider legs' quests.

reason 3? well every single review said that gta4 is ownage. what new did it bring to gaming tho? absolutely nothing. then why the heck give the game 10/10 ratings? fail.

thats just ONE example.

also i can forcechoke a trooper in many other star wars games so..

 To the posters complaining about having to see these types of threads. 

A lot of the people posting about this are just fed up with WoW in general and looking for something new. WoW has become boring to no end yet nothing really gets 'on-par' with it. The game play and expansions aren't going to change any with new xpacks, it will just be the same thing that looks different, so the game is infact starting to show its age. That is why people are conversing and looking for something else.

Final Fantasy, Warcraft, and Everquest are legands in the genre. Square-Enix are RPG development gods of the east and Blizzard is of the west. These would be companies to look at when considering hit titles as they have strong/popular running series with dedicated core fan bases.

EDITED

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by Compwinner

I made a poll in the Pub. And I thoroughly disagree. Even if these new MMOs are offering the same thing, they offer it in a different enivornment with different names etc and since they are next gen, better graphics and better mechanics that make use of technology. You're argument makes me think that you believe all these new MMOs are simply WoW clones. The thing is they will one day offer the same thing but slightly better. I mean the person who said wow will dominate for many years to come. What about in 5-10 years when playing WoW may seem like SNES graphics ? I'm not sure it can last that long.

 

Anyway discuss!

 

Graphics doesn't mean jack. Just take a look at UO, AO, EQ1, AC1, FFXI, DAOC, etc.

All these games are still going and aren't going to close down any time soon. Hence, EQ1 gets another Expansion pack!

WoW wasn't really new either. It just happened to release at the right moment, at the right time, with the right features and content people liked.

On top of that. Almost litterly everyone could run the game. Even people with PC's out of the stone age.

Next Gen graphics and use of New technology means also that you exclude a massive amount of potential players. As of yet I still have to see a MMO release (after WoW) that has such scalable NextGen graphics, so people with low end system could scale it down to a level they can run the game at an acceptable level.

That's what made WoW a huge success. We can hate it or like it. That's how it is.

Not everyone is a Rage Nerd that can wave with his / her daddy's/mommy's creditcard and buys the latest hardware nor willing to do it or does feel the need to it.

I myself love fancy graphics and have a decent computer system to support it. But I accept that I am a vast minority in this and that most of the gamers are no upgrade junkies nor have the funding for it or willing to spend it!

So any new MMO releasing right now that wants to be succesful needs to offer something trully unique and different, then just fancy graphics or just a different environment.

Or people get burned out and just keep falling back to their old MMO they came from.

Cheers

That is my point. WoW IMO will eventually turn into one of those games you listed. Old gen graphics, still going nevertheless, but with a lowered playerbase.. None of those games are up with the millions of subs list are they? They are aged, but still fairly popular, not MEGA popular.

 None of those games are up with the millions of subs list are they? They are aged, but still fairly popular, not MEGA popular.

Square-Enix earning report show FFXI does indeed have over a mil-subs. Most of these subs are Japanese so maybe that is why not to many people talk about it in the west.

EDIT: 1.2mil subs

Originally posted by Compwinner

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by Compwinner

I made a poll in the Pub. And I thoroughly disagree. Even if these new MMOs are offering the same thing, they offer it in a different enivornment with different names etc and since they are next gen, better graphics and better mechanics that make use of technology. You're argument makes me think that you believe all these new MMOs are simply WoW clones. The thing is they will one day offer the same thing but slightly better. I mean the person who said wow will dominate for many years to come. What about in 5-10 years when playing WoW may seem like SNES graphics ? I'm not sure it can last that long.

 

Anyway discuss!

 

Graphics doesn't mean jack. Just take a look at UO, AO, EQ1, AC1, FFXI, DAOC, etc.

All these games are still going and aren't going to close down any time soon. Hence, EQ1 gets another Expansion pack!

WoW wasn't really new either. It just happened to release at the right moment, at the right time, with the right features and content people liked.

On top of that. Almost litterly everyone could run the game. Even people with PC's out of the stone age.

Next Gen graphics and use of New technology means also that you exclude a massive amount of potential players. As of yet I still have to see a MMO release (after WoW) that has such scalable NextGen graphics, so people with low end system could scale it down to a level they can run the game at an acceptable level.

That's what made WoW a huge success. We can hate it or like it. That's how it is.

Not everyone is a Rage Nerd that can wave with his / her daddy's/mommy's creditcard and buys the latest hardware nor willing to do it or does feel the need to it.

I myself love fancy graphics and have a decent computer system to support it. But I accept that I am a vast minority in this and that most of the gamers are no upgrade junkies nor have the funding for it or willing to spend it!

So any new MMO releasing right now that wants to be succesful needs to offer something trully unique and different, then just fancy graphics or just a different environment.

Or people get burned out and just keep falling back to their old MMO they came from.

Cheers

 

That is my point. WoW IMO will eventually turn into one of those games you listed. Old gen graphics, still going nevertheless, but with a lowered playerbase.. None of those games are up with the millions of subs list are they? They are aged, but still fairly popular, not MEGA popular.

Because millions of subs was never ever the norm. At least sertainly not here in the west.

WoW was basically the first and so far the last to ever achieve that.

Having around 200k-300k was considered a success in P2P MMO terms.

That is the whole problem. All investors expect WoW's results repeated, while any sane person would know it's just not possible anymore, due to the saturation of the market.

That's why all MMO's the past 2-3 years bombed so hard and just failed misserably.

The only thing they had going for and what they had mutually in common was overly rushed development, no content, no longetivity, awful amount of bugs and WAY TOO MUCH HYPE.

That's not gonna cut it anymore. But sadly it won't be the end, as so far the game companies have one HUGE arrogant metal plate in front of their heads and continue along this awful path of fail.

We need a true revolution within the MMO genre, but sadly, I don't see us getting any anytime soon. Maybe just never and the genre just dies out over the years. Completely destroyed and milked out to the last penny.

Cheers

Aye and a sad day it would be too. I don't quite understand dev's thought processes sometimes.. If they just read a few forums or looked at past mmo mistakes hehe.. Many say WoW took the best of previous MMOs.. why is that so hard?

Originally posted by Guillermo197

We need a true revolution within the MMO genre, but sadly, I don't see us getting any anytime soon. Maybe just never and the genre just dies out over the years. Completely destroyed and milked out to the last penny.

 

I dont see it happen either.

Every mmo has 1 or 2 things new, the next mmo take those and add 1 or 2 new.

It will grow slowly different then the old MMO'S but everyone copying each other you dont notice the difference.

Take a car for instance, it slowly changes but still have 4 wheels and a steering wheel

a model from 100 years ago differs greatly from the cars now, but a model 4 years younger dusnt have many new things.

One thing we should keep in mind here is that not everyone likes the SCI FI setting. Some people are just Fantasy Buffs and they will not move over to the Old Republic even if its a better game.

Second thing is I dont belive thier Hype about story it sound like some CRAP to bring up the HYPE. MMOs do not need more single player like qualities they need to live up to the name MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER GAME. Having your own crew and Story sounds like a single player game trying to pass itself off as a Multiplayer one.

SO The Old Rebublic and EA BIOMYTHIC(lolZ) need to bring alot more to the table if they hope to dethrone World of Warcraft....

Originally posted by Zlayer77

One thing we should keep in mind here is that not everyone likes the SCI FI setting. Some people are just Fantasy Buffs and they will not move over to the Old Republic even if its a better game.

This is very true with most people I talk to.

WoW has 11.5mil players, more than 60% of the market... that's about 3 times the population of the country of Singapore. If you put all the players together under 1 nation state called WoW, they are the population equivalent of Ohio, ranked 7th most populous state in US. WoW is not dying anytime soon. New players join as they come of age. For many, WoW will be the equivalence of their childhood. WoW has such a critical mass, it is on a self sustaining cycle, and it IS a part of the culture for many people.

There will not be a WoW killer in the sense of a mass exodus from WoW. And many forget, WoW can still choose to improve upon itself as it grows. It already makes a lot of profit to be able to pump back into the development of the game.

 Simple ideas from simple ppl,

1st)  why do u want a "WoW Killer".... if ppl like to play WoW let em.  its like many in the gaming community stay at the simplest level intellectual thought.

2nd)  A sci-fi game will never kill a fantasy game or the reverse, cauz' generally speaking, most ppl are playing them cauz they like the setting.

3rd)  meh, no 3d. too early

/facepalm

And yet *another* game falls victim to the "WoW Killer" label... almost guaranteeing that, even if it's a good game, it will be called a failure on release by many - not for being a bad game, necessarily - but because it wasn't the "WoW killer" it was described as.

Every time I see posts like this pop up, I imagine a bunch of lemming-like people running face-first into a wall... falling over... getting up... finding a new wall.. running face-first into it... falling over... getting up... finding another wall... etc..

As soon as you set WoW as the standard for a game to live up to, you've pretty much set it up to fail.

All people should hope for is a good, solid and fun MMO with enough people to make it fun, and for it to be professionally managed. That would be a realistic standard to set. Being a "WoW Killer" is not required to achieve any of those assets and is unrealistic. 1 million players would be more than enough for KOTOR to be a successful game. Even 500k would be good, depending on BioWare's overhead.

When will people learn?
 

 WELL SAID!

Originally posted by WSIMike

/facepalm

And yet *another* game falls victim to the "WoW Killer" label... almost guaranteeing that, even if it's a good game, it will be called a failure on release by many - not for being a bad game, necessarily - but because it wasn't the "WoW killer" it was described as.

Every time I see posts like this pop up, I imagine a bunch of lemming-like people running face-first into a wall... falling over... getting up... finding a new wall.. running face-first into it... falling over... getting up... finding another wall... etc..

As soon as you set WoW as the standard for a game to live up to, you've pretty much set it up to fail.

All people should hope for is a good, solid and fun MMO with enough people to make it fun, and for it to be professionally managed. That would be a realistic standard to set. Being a "WoW Killer" is not required to achieve any of those assets and is unrealistic. 1 million players would be more than enough for KOTOR to be a successful game. Even 500k would be good, depending on BioWare's overhead.

When will people learn?
 

Sadly. Never.

Originally posted by graggok

*blank* will kill wow threads make me want to bake kittens into a pie.

mmmmm, pie!

Dream on...it is good to dream.  :)

They said UO could never be matched.

They said EQ could never be surpassed.

They were wrong.

Wow has been out for almost five years now.  That's a millenium in MMO years.

Time will kill WoW, not SWOR.

Does a MMORPG needs to "kill WoW" in order to be fun?

I dont think this is a useful discussion. For instance, for me, lotro killed wow. and swtor will probably kill lotro. and the only person that matters to me is me. so there. spread that in your toast and eat it.

Edit: you dont have to eat that toast if you dont want to.

Originally posted by dhayes68

Originally posted by lionrwal

Reason 1: This game is very much similar to Knights of the Old Republic, one of the best Star Wars games EVAH!!!! It's also made by Bioware, the makers of K.O.T.O.R., are making this game.

Reason 2: This game will revolutionize MMOs because you will not feel like you are grinding, and the quests(called missions in The Old Republic)will not be like, "Go and kill 10 acklays" or "Collect one krayt dragon hide." The missions will be like, "Go slice into the computer to take over the ship."

Reason 3: Several gaming sites have already written reviews on this game, and they are all good. One site even states,"As the force-choked trooper slides across the ground, clutching is neck, it becomes obvious; this game is a WoW killer."

 

 

Reason 1: Past success is no guarantee of future performance. Bioware has never made an MMO. Bioware's best gaming days were a long time ago.

Reason 2: Revolutionizing MMO's is only good if people like the revolution. That's no guarantee. Lets keep in mind WoW is the most successful. If Bioware strays (as you claim they are doing) too far from the mmo formula they run the risk of not only great success, but also great failure.

Reason 3: Reviews of a game not launched are meaningless.

 

Not saying TOR will fail or be bad, just that your reasoning is very faulty. Smells more like desperate hope to me.

 

Everybody seems to think that the "WoW Killer" is going be be a revolutionary game. They're not. WoW was not a revolutionary game- it took the ideas of several other games and improved on them. It keeps is 12,000,000 subscribers by updating content. I will most likely be trying out TOR, but they need to take what the gaming community  likes as a whole and improve on it. They need to make small advances and introduce new ideas slowly. People don't like totally revolutionary ideas for recreation. I also will need an open UI because I can't stand a UI that isn't customizable and the best for that so far is WAR (it would be better if they had more addon writers)

Yea yea they're just tooting their own horn. This game will be no different than all the other 'wow-killers'. Even Mythic is involved in it now - and I think there's a good chance this will go the way of Warhammer. It will do well at launch but players will quickly get bored and return to their previous MMO (probably WoW since it will have so much more content, and possibly even another expansion pack on the way)

TOR won't kill WoW, nor do I want it to.  I'd prefer if all the people who use WoW as nothing more than a $15/month chat client while playing Wack-a-Mole (instances, arena, BGs, AH, etc) stay there, and the gamers come over....if you know what I mean.  And that won't kill WoW.

Originally posted by Thradar

TOR won't kill WoW, nor do I want it to.  I'd prefer if all the people who use WoW as nothing more than a $15/month chat client while playing Wack-a-Mole (instances, arena, BGs, AH, etc) stay there, and the gamers come over....if you know what I mean.  And that won't kill WoW.

Exactly! Let the wow faqs stay there the communty in wow just sucks like hell... bunch of kids trying to be the best... let them stay there and bring some mature (mentaly) players to SW... Bring it on ^^