Originally posted by Zorvan

Firstly Elikal, you know better than anyone that the term "queer" can be offensive to someone of the homosexual persuasion. Also, if the guy named "Qweer Cop" was a straight guy making fun of gays, you'd be the first to report his name as harrassment.

Secondly, freedom of speech does not apply to private property and/or functions. You do not have the freedom of speech on these forums or in someone elses game world except for the freedom they allow you.

As an example, the KKK is allowed to spew their hate propoganda due to the second amendment. However, if they choose to do so while on my front lawn, I can have them arrested for hate related crime.

QFT

Originally posted by nkryptik

Being in the gaming business for a very long period of time bee it beta testing, Customer Support, or just as a player this is not something they are doing against you peronally no matter how you may feel.   The reson this is done by gaming companies is they have no right to question anyones sexual orientation, religiuos pratices etc when you buy the game or when you sign up as a customer.  Companies do this so the ones that would use names such as these to be derogitory, or use them in predjudice or hatred will not be allowed or tolerated.  You have sit back and look at teh bigger picture it is not just you they have to look at, take WoW for example with 11 million customers, how would the staff of a game of magnitude ever be able to verify the sexual orientation of all 11 million customers to find out the legit and non legit useage of the name.

Just do not take it personally it is dont to protect you from slander and hatred not stop you from being proud, it is so 5 million "gay haters" do not create toons with such names to well hate on gay people.  The generalization of the "when it is used in a derogatory way" is a protective measure and as I have already mentioned,  how can a company who has any ethics in it's business sence ask a player if they are gay or not?, it cannot as this will set forth a sence that they are screening out "gay" players or "non gay" players.

Just accept the name change and be glad there are major companies that actually care about protecting their customers from such abuse instead of just turning a blind eye to it and letting the haters hate.

Along these lines you have to realize that Cryptic or any other MMO company will not risk interpreting what is offensive and what is not. You may feel your name is fine, but Cryptic aint going to take chances in a court of law. "Well, Eiklial is a gay subscriber to our game and he said it is fine.. Therefore you can't be offended and sue me for discrimination or hate, ...can you?"

The company is going to tell anyone who agrees to their EULA that if a name is even vaguely offensive, they will make you rename it.

 Here's the way the first amendment works.  If I put a sign in my yard that says, "Blue cars suck!", and you take it down because you find it offensive, then you violate my constitutional rights.  If I put a sign in your yard that says, "Blue cars suck!", and you take it down, then I can be charged with trespassing.  Your don't have to give me your yard for me to promote my idiocy.  Cryptic doesn't have to give you their resources to promote your idiocy.  

So lets stop this thread.  OP you are wrong, legally and otherwise.

So, what did you guys have for breakfast? My girl made me a  scrambled egg  with cheese sandwhich. So yummy.

 I made myself an omelet with mushrooms cheese and smoked turkey, my wife had som plain eggs with salsa..... not too bad

To the OP, just because you are guy then that does not make it ok for you to use sensitive words such as 'queer' in your name. Just like colored people are not allowed to use the n-word. So really, you'e delusional if you think this means they don't want gay gamers. They, like any sw company, wouldnt give a rats ass about your sexual orientation as long as you pay them and dont do anything illegal with their SW.

Originally posted by Yamota

To the OP, just because you are guy then that does not make it ok for you to use sensitive words such as 'queer' in your name. Just like colored people are not allowed to use the n-word. So really, you'e delusional if you think this means they don't want gay gamers. They, like any sw company, wouldnt give a rats ass about your sexual orientation as long as you pay them and dont do anything illegal with their SW.

I belive the PC term is now "dark skinned"

I'm a gay gamer.. I could care less if someone wanted to name their character queerkiller or whatever. It's just a game and it's just a name. The only thing that would become offensive to me is if they started going to a main city in the game and preach hate or pick on characters they thought were gay... and even then it would only bother me if I thought they were being serious. Otherwise they are just being annoying.

     Let me break this down for you from a totally straight guys point of view.  The term "gay" and other terms not so nice are used to describe someone who likes to put their body parts in someone elses body parts of the same sex.  It's natural for straight people to find the idea obscene and offensive, yet we must live with you regardless of our personal opinions. 

     However, it has nothing to do with your game character whatsoever.  At the base meaning of the term it is simply used for organization.  It doesn't necessarily mean the person has superpowers or in opposite need to be derogatory.  The words simply exist for classification.  It's the mean or disturbed people of the world that can't let others who are different live as they like in peace... as long as they aren't bothering anyone else. 

     Flaunting your "gayness" is a cliche' and is a major contributor to straight people "hating" gay people.  It bothers us... a lot.  If I were to happen apon a character named "Superbob" who was both friendly and a fun guy to play with I'd add him to the friends list and enjoy our time gaming together, gay or not doesn't matter (and isn't supposed too).  If I were to happen apon a guy named "SuperGayBoB" I'd not even waste the time to type hello.  A guy like that isn't interested in just plain ole' escapism fun, he's just portraying his own personal agenda and perhaps mental instabilities.  Feeling the need to label yourself as "gay" or "straight" or "black" or "white" or any of the other labels that exist in the real world is wasting the opportunity that these games gives you.  The ability to just be you or whoever you dream yourself to be.  No labels.  No judgements.  No hate.  Don't waste it.

Originally posted by Emeraq

Originally posted by Zorvan

Firstly Elikal, you know better than anyone that the term "queer" can be offensive to someone of the homosexual persuasion. Also, if the guy named "Qweer Cop" was a straight guy making fun of gays, you'd be the first to report his name as harrassment.

Secondly, freedom of speech does not apply to private property and/or functions. You do not have the freedom of speech on these forums or in someone elses game world except for the freedom they allow you.

As an example, the KKK is allowed to spew their hate propoganda due to the second amendment. However, if they choose to do so while on my front lawn, I can have them arrested for hate related crime.

 

QFT

QFT x2

That is all that needs to be said.

Originally posted by Elikal

I usually take my word serious, and being in a MMORPG beta under NDA, I usually refrain from taking things to the open. But my personal code of ethics force me to bring something to the public, which I personally feel of enough importance.

 

It is a story whose topic may be know to you. Banning gay people from MMOs. The story is simple enough. I created a character called "Qweer Cop", looking like a Cop. Now my character was forcibly renamed, telling me it was harrasment against sexual orientation. You may mind the irony, that a gay gamer (me!) is "protected" from being harrased by calling himself gay. You may or may may not share my idea of freedom that I can call a character as I want, but pretending to protect ME, by banning my own self-descption is in every way the height of absurdity.

I thought after WOW and SWTOR, we have passe beyond this way of PC thinking. Apparently the lesson isnt learned... so here we go again.

 

I posted a post in the Beta Forum, *kindly* and *reasonably* asking that it was wrong to forbid my character to be named like that. The Tems of Service just mention usage of sexual orientation is only forbidden, when it is used in a derogatory way, which I as gay gamer myself, can't. I mean I AM GAY. I can call MYSELF as I want. Freedom of Speech in USA used to be an absolute, but apparently in 2009 it just means "Freedom of Speech to say what I agree to". There goes the land of the Free. I am ired about the fact they forbade "Qweer Cop" - I used a hero called "Qweer Avenger" in City of Heroes for YEARS, and not a single moment anyone cared.

Nor is the word "Queer" genuinely sexal, as if I had called the char "Assbang Anvenger". It is a matter of identity. And it was a simply fun char, either way. The matter is, when in a forum a reasonable debat isnt just locked, it is deleted, and all the effort from both side are nullified.

 

I understand most of you won't care. I know most of you won't care rat's ass about my pain about being made invisivle and being harrassed by a company. But even tho I know they will likely win and I won't, I must fight this fight. It is to acknowledge what I am - what we gay gamers are. We are once more forbidden even our very own name!

 

And tho it may not credit me as a serious or sober person by your definition - I spit my hate of despise against Cryptic. Hell's own fire is not as hot as my anger against you. Know that I am entirely honest and serious in saying this: from the depth of my heart I wish Cryptic curse and doom.

1. You are not being honest with your title. Did you hear a member of the development team say" We don't want gays?" They can sue you for libel if you don't have proof. They want gays, blacks, whites, girls, short people, etc...They want all of us because they want our money. Show some common sense.

2. Just because a word is not offensive to you, doesn't mean others will be ok with it. It is because of this mentality that they block all words that they deem to be "trouble." It is their environment and they have the legal rights to protect it in any legal manner they see fit. You are just throwing a temper tantrum because someone isn't giving you your way. How childish.

3. I know people of all minority backgrounds and it isn't their respective differences that define them. It is how they act and treat others. Some people who happen to be gay are cool and they tolerate others as they want to be tolerated. In fact, they don't think being gay/black/short/poor is worth mentioning.  You come off as the other type. The type who walk up to strangers and get in their face and scream you are gay and they had better be ok with it or you will report them to Washington...the kind that uses their uniqueness as a means of getting attention, even if it is negative attention.

Want to help yourself out? Delete this post.

Originally posted by Vrazule

 

Private or public, citizen or corporation, if you're located in the United States or it's territories, you must abide by the Constitution and it's Amendments.  Any service or product is included in this.  Lawsuits are filed and won against private companies and individuals who infringe these rights on a regular basis.  All it needs is someone to challenge it.

The passage you quoted means that no successive law can be made to circumvent the first amendment.

Incorrect.

Here's a test for you.  Walk into work tomorrow and tell your boss he's a child molesting scumbag shiteating dogturd. When he fires you, see if the 1st  Amendment protects you.

If you're not quite that brave, walk up to a female co-worker and tell her how hot she is and that you want to bend her over the breakroom table and make her scream. 1st Amendment won't save you from being fired and sued for sexual harrassment there either.

The Constitution protects you from the Government abrdging your rights to free speech, not an individual person or private entity such as a game publisher or a private-sector employer.

You stated such yourself, in fact, when you said 'The passage you quoted means that no successive law can be made to circumvent the first amendment'. Having his character renamed was not an instance where the government stepped in and slapped him, and as such there is no protection offered by the 1st Amendment.

Just from reading the first post this an asbolutely retarted (wait sorry is that offensive?) debate and them changing your name wasn't Cryptic 's way of gay bashing. End of story - queer is an offensive word and its been made that way by gay people saying it is. Heres my exercise of the Freedom of Speech which you claim to be so surpressed. MOVE ON it wasn't any one set on bringing down the gay population you simply had a character name which wasn't approriate. Rename it.

 Well on a good note, these names are still available:

Stupid Cop , Idiot cop, Retarded Cop (probably face the same problems on this one), Complete dumb arse cop ( language here might get ya) ... Feel free to try a new one ....

Originally posted by RogueMaster

Originally posted by Vrazule

 

Private or public, citizen or corporation, if you're located in the United States or it's territories, you must abide by the Constitution and it's Amendments.  Any service or product is included in this.  Lawsuits are filed and won against private companies and individuals who infringe these rights on a regular basis.  All it needs is someone to challenge it.

The passage you quoted means that no successive law can be made to circumvent the first amendment.

 

Incorrect.

 

Here's a test for you.  Walk into work tomorrow and tell your boss he's a child molesting scumbag shiteating dogturd. When he fires you, see if the 1st  Amendment protects you.

 

If you're not quite that brave, walk up to a female co-worker and tell her how hot she is and that you want to bend her over the breakroom table and make her scream. 1st Amendment won't save you from being fired and sued for sexual harrassment there either.

 

The Constitution protects you from the Government abrdging your rights to free speech, not an individual person or private entity such as a game publisher or a private-sector employer.

 

You stated such yourself, in fact, when you said 'The passage you quoted means that no successive law can be made to circumvent the first amendment'. Having his character renamed was not an instance where the government stepped in and slapped him, and as such there is no protection offered by the 1st Amendment.

Exactly correct.

Just for argumentative purposes, I will simplify here but basically, the First Amendment deals specifically with the government. More specifically "Congress". Look at its wording "Congress shall make no law....".

Then ask yourself...is it clear? Sure it is. Who shall make no law? Congress shall make no law...

Again this is a very serious simplification, keep that in mind.

The examples above are very accurate. You cannot claim you have First Amendment rights all of the time. For example, if you post here and make rude/suggestive/insulting comments you can be banned. The same thing with CoC's in games. They make the rules and you cannot complain you have a right to free speech in game or on the forum as it does not apply..... government isn't infringing on your right, you allow your right to be infringed upon by joining that community. You agreed to abide by the rules to join that game or forum, therefore you must abide by the rules. And if you do not agree....you can leave and you have no legal recourse because you cannot claim damages or losses because you are no longer a member.

There are cases where the government can infringe on your right of speech as well. The best example is when public safety is more important than your right to speech. Also in libel and slander cases, your right to free speech doesn't apply since libel and slander are basically the non-truth and lies are not protected.

Free speech is a complicated issue and Champion's Online has the right to change the name of any character they want if that name is against the Code of Conduct. Since the term the OP used in his name carries a detrimental and insulting connotation with it, they have that right.

Why isn't this ludicrous crap closed yet?

Anyone?

Elikal , while I will agree with you on some good points made in your orginal post, I myself as a "gay gamer" would find offense with the title you named yourself.  And you know your the person behind the title and is gay such as me, but no one else knows that in game and may assume more then not that your a straight person harrassing our community...so just to nip it in the but so to speak the rules are in place to prevent this exact problem your bringing up.

Besides come on we"the gay community" are known for our great imaginations so why use such a lame title.  Now  say if you are  at a gay pride parade, and clearly friends and family etc know your out and ga.....y and you wear a shirt saying that all the more power to you because they can see who is behind the name, where in a virtual world they cannot...so suffice to say your main issue with the name ban is null and void.

it all started with the suit over mcdonalds hot coffee, and a bunch of whiners and lawyers.

now anyone can sue anyone, for anything, anywhere, anytime.

 Well, exercising my freedom of speech I went ahead and let the devs for champions know... not sure if they can get this junk removed, or if they just want to ban him off CO's beta or what.  Anyways...  on a more serious note, what is the best topping on a pizza?

Some people just have to have something to complain about, some need a reason to say they've been wronged. The odd thing is that what Cryptic did here was to respect those of homosexual persuasion, they can't know who is or who is NOT homosexual, so the naming policy needs to apply to all, PERIOD, get over it.

 invoking my right to call you a moron

Facing so many enemies at once... alright. 10... 100... 10000 - doesn't matter to me. I am right. That's all I need to go.

First, maye you kick in your brains before posting. If I wanted attention, don't you think I would post something that would catch more... positive response? It is sort of illogical to accuse me of doing this for the attention and at the same time bash me. Unless I were a masochist. You conclude from YOU on me! I do not seek attention, but I do not care if 10.000 call me a fool, when I think I am right and my cause is important.

To most things I don't care to respond, because many posters here showed such apparent lack of both intellectual faculty as well as emotional empathy, that discussing with them is as pointless as discussing with a cow. They just moo out the same thing over and over, they come here for an easy target, and I have no time to play their games.

To some arguments who at least seem some rational mind behind I say this:

a) Being a straight white male you have NO CLUE what it is not to be. It does take a certain step of empathy, and such things are not quite supported in straight white male America. Maybe you ask around ourside of "gods own country" how US is seen any why. May extend your horizon. If you care for understanding, that is. It takes a certain courage to step outside your narrow world and see things through the eyes of those who are different.

b) Why is gay or queer kid unfriendly, when the words straight and hetero are ok? Why should kids be raised unknowing the existence of gay people? We exist. End of story. Like it or not, here we are, everywhere. Ok, not in Iran. Iran's President Achmadinejad has clearly said there are no gay people in Iran. But outside we exist. So what? If those words invoke dirty ideas, it is YOUR problem. When the Black people decided they did not like the N-word, it was their decision, and theirs alone. It isnt up to white people to decide how black people are to be called, no it is merely and alone for black people to decide this. And the same is for gay people. WE have the sole right to decide how we want to be called. We have NOT decided that queer or gay is bad, and you are to respect that. It is OUR name and thus it is OUR decision ALONE what is ok to call us and what isnt, just as it is solely up to black people to say how they want to be named and how not.

c) Maybe you look at the MANY obscene depictions of women on game packages and in games and then come back and we talk about kid friendly again. Almost every game is FULL of sexual referrences, but god forbid when it is a male. Making females sexual objects is ok apparently, yes?

d) Look at how many posts this thread got, and then tell me again, this entire thing is no issue. If it were, people would ignore it. The very mass of responses tells VOLUMES how much this apparently itches you. Yeah you pretend to be so smug over this "drama", but I tell you, you are frightened out of your pants! People laugh at what they fear and the fear what they hate. That is the core of this. If this was the harmless absurd event you claim, you would ignore it and move on. Nothing betrays a person's weak spot more than what he mocks, and in that I guess I hit you guys all square in the chest. Not that your macho attitude allows you to admit it ever. And yes, women can be macho too.

I don't expect you to understand. [Mod Edit]

Firstly the term Queer is derogatory , maybe its not in the US , but any gay people i know get really pissed of if you call them queer.

So your whole up in arms they dont want gay gamers is bullshit and you are actually the one who made a offensive name.

Originally posted by Geriden

Firstly the term Queer is derogatory , maybe its not in the US , but any gay people i know get really pissed of if you call them queer.

So your whole up in arms they dont want gay gamers is bullshit and you are actually the one who made a offensive name.

 

Ummm...nope.  Queer, unless you are referring to something as strange, is pretty much derogatory in the US when referred to the GLBT community. 

OP: Gay, straight...you were just being another young asshole trying to rock the boat.  You were banned because your name was offensive...to the GLBT COMMUNITY!  If you had talked about being gay in-game, and then gotten banned, I'd have sympathy, and in fact, would fight for your cause.  A black man doesn't call his brothers "n*gg*r";  He will call them "My niggaz", referring to a common bond of struggle that black men share.  There is a big difference between "N*gg*r" and "niggaz", and you would know that if you were an American; so shove that European superiority shite up your ass(and no, that wasn't meant as a gay reference, Mr Sensitivity).

You were looking to cause controversy just to massage your own ego, not out of gay pride or whatever lie you might want to fabricate.  Most of those in the gay community would disparage the fact that you used the word queer, which was used as much as "faggot" was by rednecks as they would beat gays in the south and elsewhere.  How about YOU learn some of the history of GLBT culture in the US, before you try to argue such crap as is in your post.

You are just another asshole trying to get a rise out of others.  Well, congrats.  Judging from the amount of posts here, it worked.

for the person that said you can sue private companies over the 1st Amendment.  Techinically this is true.  That the individual did was fail at actually reading the whole of the lawsuits.

The lawsuits are called SLAPP (strategic lawsuits against public participation): (1) involve communications made to influence a government action or outcome, (2) which result in civil lawsuits (complaints, counterclaims, or cross-claims), (3) filed against non-governmental individuals or groups (4) on a substantive issue of some public interest or social significance."
 

These are used against companies all the time for restricting people from saying or doing stuff on private property like work, forum boards, etc. 

Unfortunately due to 'Eastern Railroad Presidents' Conference v. Noerr Motor Freight, Inc', 'United Mine Workers v. Pennington', and 'City of Columbia v. Omni Outdoor Advertising Inc'.  The rulings on these lawsuits has changed in the US Supreme Court.  The Court held that SLAPPs should be dismissed in all cases except those in which the target's activities are not genuinely directed at gaining favorable government action.
 

So if you are sueing a company for some political reason...you fail.  If you are sueing because the site is a 1)PUBLIC forum open to all and 2) the site blatently censors, discriminates, or harasses you, you can sue.  forum boards that force you to join first before posting or are for only a select group that has to elect to join through acceptance of a verbal or non-verbal agreement (as in you have to go to a certain place at a certain time to participate) are excluded.

So the game is not a public forum...you must join and accept their rules.  These protect them from censoring you as they wish so long as the game remain private.  So there is your case law *whip crack* on your government civics classes that some of you should do more than read the cliff notes at.