They don't try to deceive.  They just try to take what works from multiple MMO's and make a hybrid of it.  Rather than the same boring system from start to finish they start out with a quest heavy linear PvE progression and it turns into an all out war between factions.

If you don't like the game concept then simply don't play.  No single playstyle is being forced down anyone's throat because of fans of another playstyle.  The game is what it is, and that info is readily available. 

Originally posted by Teiman

Pure PvE games are really expensive, and for that, the near future is *all* PvE with some PvP mixed. If you don't like PVP at all, the next games will put you on a corner.

BUT there are enough pve games, so living on that corner has not that horrible.

Thats only because most PvP games skimp on real content assuming that they only need to provide high lvl people with PvP and maybe some forts to fight over.  Frankly I want more from a game andif they actually add content then the costs become rather similar or slightly more expensive for the PvP servers since they have to do both the content and the pvp development.  But as we can see based on the past in most cases games the feature PvP tend to scrimp on the pve content in the game.

In reference to the OP, Calintz,

I must say that your post shows sorrow and feelings that to me seemed as though you felt betrayed in some way by NCSoft.  I agree with what you say in that this game will bring those that cherish PvP.  I also am somewhat remorseful that this game like many in the past couple of years show a lack of creativity as the global aspects of mmo's should be. It appears to me you have invested some time and effort in your past support of Aion.

Since the advent of Blizzard's World of Warcraft, we have learned a new term, "end game".  This term basically has marketed and "boxed" games as if they were "Big Macs", in some way.  I suppose you might make a comparison to how mass production in the Ford Motor corporation at the turn of the century revolutionized and increased the sameness of automobiles.  Many of the games we have choices to play today have something in common with what Blizzard created successfully back in 2004.  Unfortunately, corporate sponsorships of games today mean making and meeting a tight time line as far as production of a playable game, thus it might be easier for gaming developers to create a game with one main purpose for "end game" content, like a "one trick pony", I suppose. It's all about the "quick fix" of success and profit in today's gaming market.  Get the sub through the low level content as fast as possible, downgrade the time syncs in the mmo and get those subs to the top level and to that blessed end game content so they can experience the one aspect of the game that the creators are so very proud of, be that raiding dungeons or massive areas for open PvP.  This is what you will log into every day. This is what you will do with your guild, (legion) every day.  No other options.  No other choices.  If this is NOT for you, then you are invited to leave!

Inevitably, with this type of support or lack thereof, it is apparent that these games may very well burn themselves out due to lack of creativity in that companies choose one type of content or theme and that shall be what subs will do when they obtain their highest level.  Now, it's true that WoW might not burn itself out, however it was first to succeed with an "end game" content style. I just laugh and ask this question, Why must we refer to the end of a game cycle as "end game", when we all know that the company has no intention of finishing the game at that specific content?  As Spock might have said to Kirk, "Fascinating!"

I do believe it's time for not only those of us who play games, but also the developers that create these games might take a step back and look at the 'big picture".  It is my feeling that a phenomenom is on the horizon.  The overall age of those people paying subscriptions for these games is increasing.  Many young people's parents are now playing. Families are playing these games now.  But, the most curious of all these facts is that soon, many "Baby Boomers" will be retiring.  Unlike the generation before them, they are computer literate and many have discovered online games and MMO's like the ones reviewed on this forum. Thus, it is time for developers of future MMO's to look at the gaming universe 'globaly".  Not everyone agrees that forced raiding dungeons for the best gear or forced PvP in specific areas for the best gear is what massively multi-player online ROLEPLAYING games should be.  I see four facets of a good MMO; questing/exploration, crafting, faction-based PvP, and raiding as EQUALLY important in story lore and game progression.  I have a feeling that many, if not most older gamers do not mind the time syncs or slower pacing of quest chains and crafting/harvesting.  I suspect that years of real life experiences and their imagaintion drive a creative and colorful apsect for gaming experiences. Therefore I can humbily "feel your pain", Calintz.

Take heart though, eventually, somewhere there are a few developers that have similar feelings that many of these current games offer us little more than a "Big Mac" without the pickles, please.  I predict that within the next five years or so it will become quite apparent that these "Baby Boomers" and the money they might bring to future games are important they might even start listening to some of us that enjoy the slower pacing and logging in for the comradery or fellowship of others in the game.  I do think there will be a game that incorporates the best aspects of many of the successful MMO's like EverQuest, EQ 2, WoW, Lineage 2, and LoTRO, to name a few and balances what gamers can do once they reach their highest level for that current game cycle.

May the winds blow favorably for you, Calintz!

Originally posted by ethion

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Originally posted by ethion

Originally posted by Wakygreek

OKay, WoW there is alot of complaining on this thread. As much as I enjoyed reading some thought-out posts, some were just rediculous.

 

 So here we have the answer to this entire thread. Are you ready? I dont want any of you to miss it.

Answer: 

PVE players your games are that way =======================>

PVP players your games are this way <=======================

Hybrid PVPVE players your game is right here       ===>Aion<===

 

wow someone got heavy into marketing speak... Ok how is Aion a hybrid PvP PvE game?  It isn't there is no such thing.  Aion is a RvR game plain and simple.  The whole PvPvE thing is a load of crock trying to make the game out to be something that will appear to all types of players.  The whole PvPvE thing relates to the abyss and the fact that there is a 3rd NPC faction.  So in the RvR playing field you are fighting with a player driven faction and a computer driven faction.  

It has nothing to do with the game being build to appeal to PvE players.  This game is a pure PvP game just like any other PvP game and to say otherwise is really just trying to market it with falsehoods.

 

I have a certain opinion of what pve and pvp is, when a game has a bit of both its called pvpve. There is no other explanation possible. PVPVE is exactly what Aion is. It is not specifically PVP nor is it PVE. You can level without experiancing pvp in Aion. However there is a chance you may get attacked every now and then through rift wars.

My answer was true, and I dont see your point at all TBH. Aion is a hybrid for those who enjoy both aspects of the game. I am not supporting any falsehoods. It sounds like your stuck in a loop with terms.

The term pvp can by misunderstood by many, but essentually a PVP game is any game that you eventually have to compete with another player over gain/loss. This can be within combat/game economy or other methods. Every game online can technically be categorized as a pvp game. Even WOW is a PVP game, more so than many would beleive because in WOW GEAR focus causes many players to go in a uproar over who gets what. Everytime you roll on gear you are competing against other players. But I feel that a majority of gamers tend to focus on the nitty gritty  such as yourself to try and prove a difference.

P.S.  In short, Aion = PVPVE. How you ask? Because you are given the option to do pvp, pve or both at the same time. If you dont like this answer, I suggest you read up on the game a little more.

 

Total BS....

PvE and PvP have been used for years to refer to two different game distinctions.

PvE - No PvP other then when a player enables it.  Game play orientation is on killing mobs, bosses, raids etc.  It is more about teamwork and defeating NPC encounters.

PvP - Is a MMO just like the PvE mmo excecpt that there is open PvP.  PvP is unavoidable since there is no tag to turn it off.  Other players can attack.  These games however have always had PvE content.  One variation is the quality of the PvE content, most of the time PvP oriented games tend to be focused on PvP at the high end and PvE content is seldom of the quality in a PvE oriented game.

RvR - Similar to PvP games except that player killing is restricted to opposing factions.  The game is more territorial where certain areas are controled by a faction such that enemy factions will encounter npc defenders as well as players.  This is games like DaoC and Warhammer.

Many PvE games have PvP servers - and many PvP games have PvE servers.  In my opinion most PvP games offering PvE servers suck because the PvE content is sparce and inferior to what you find in a PvE game...

Now Aion shows up on the market and decides to make a BS new designation PvPvE trying to say they are going to be uniquely accessable to PvP and PvE players.  But that is total BS.  There is no PvE area in the game other then the starter areas.  All the zones are PvP enabled and the fact that PvP is introduced via a rift does nothing to mittigate that it is pvp.   The game orientation is on PvP not PvE.  Just because they have PvE content doesn't make them a PvE game....  EVERY PVP game has PvE content.  So the whole PvPvE thing is BS marketing speak.

Aion is an RvR game similar to Warhammer or DaoC.  However I'd say that both Warhammer and DaoC supported PvE players who wanted to dabble in RvR far better then Aion.

You like to say BS alot, i guess your in a loop? hehe... anyway. I dont agree with you. I can see you dont like Aion, and to me it seems that you are more focused on threading your replies with negativity towards the game itself. Aion is IMO a PVPVE game, because of what I previously posted. You are welcome to think otherwise. I hope you enjoy WAR and DAOC. Considering your reply I dont think it seems you will be getting Aion. So unfortunately (or fortunately?) I wont be seeing you in game.
 

Good luck with your future games, and please keep using BS and Crock...it makes me laugh to no end.

Cheers.

Originally posted by Calintz333

Thats right, I just want to make it clear, I previously stated in a thread about 2 weeks back that Aion would by my last mmorpg ever. I promised this to freinds and family. That this would be the last mmorpg game I start or play. I still only play to play / start 1 mmorpg no matter what but It wont be Aion.

 

Unlike the majority of people who do not like aion and come here just to flame and troll I actually have something logical and coherent points to bring up. 

First of all I would like to get something out of the way. I was and still am for the most part a huge colossal Aion fan. I have a  poster of Aion which I got in Comic-Con last year in the Ncsoft booth. I had reserved two copies of the limited Edition version of Aion, I had began working with a friend on an Aion fan site in december of 2008, as well as with a online gaming community to join a legion all together as soon as Aion was released. I have been a member of Aion source site since early 2007. I have been eargerly waiting for Aion since 2007.  You could say I am about as big as a Aion fan could get...or was.

 

Im not going to sit here and say Aion is a bad game for this feature of FORCED open world PvP in order to progress, because it is not. It is still a great game that incorporates something totally original and unique into its game play that will be a huge draw to some players, but in my opinion it will be an even bigger barrier to get PvE oriented players, which many games have shown make up the majority of mmorpgs.

 

It is something different made for those players who want something like this.  Originally I was under the impression that Aion was a game that would cater to many different types of play styles. I have recently learned that this is not true at all. Aion is by far not catering to the PvE player. To progress in any meaningful way shape or form you will need to level, and as you level areas become open PK with you having no say in it. Most of the meaningful progressive quests in the game are in an area called the abyss which is also open PK.  The game does not provide a real in game choice for players who do not want to PvP to progress, it is built with PvP as a main point in progressing in mind.

 

I am happy about this at the same time I am very disillusioned.  I am happy for those players who finally get a game that has a good mix of PvE and PvP where they don't  just make PvP a back seat to PvE, and at the same time PvP incorporates a huge sum of a great storyline. This is amazing for those players who were waiting for something like this. I am sure a lot of people will be very happy to know that Aion is that game where PvP can actually help you progress as much if not more than PvE in story, lore, as well as gear.

 

To me this system just does not work well. I do not find any enjoyment at all in ruining another players gaming experience for my own humor, nor do I appreciate it when others do the same to me. I play games to have fun, not to be frustrated.

I hope that everyone here really enjoys Aion because it is an amazing game with great potential for its intended audience. In my China, and US beta weeks I have experienced things in Aion that no other mmorpg has even come close to acomplishing. Immersion unlike any I have ever seen, amazing storytelling and much more.

To a Long term PvE veteran like myself though Aion has been my biggest let down in gaming. In 15 years of gaming I have never felt as empty and disillusioned with any game as I do with Aion. It is not because of what it is not, it is not because I think the game is bad, its just the fact the game forces players to play the game in such a way that I know very well I do not enjoy.

 

As I stated in the beginning of my post, I had previously stated this would be the last EVER mmorpg game I buy and stick with, Well, I had been looking forward to it for 3+ years, I had worked on a fan site for it, I had joined the largest US community of Aion, I was already in a pre determined Legion community.... If all of that does not prove that I was a devoted Aion enthusiast I don't know what will. I just wish Aion gave me the option to enjoy the game the way I want to enjoy it, not force me into a pre determined play style that I despise.   An even bigger shocker is that I had no idea Aion was going to be a PvP based game until recently, I can't believe that in all those years of looking into Aion and in all those hours I spent on the beta testings, I never bothered to ask how the PvP would be until recently.  Guess a lot of that is really my own fault too :)

 

 

 

 

So a self-proclaimed long time follower and fan of Aion is disillusioned with mid/end game PvP. Your statements are contrived and you will continue to have problems with games..in particular MMO's.

It has always been in the fore-front this is a PvP and PvPvE game. Oh well. I'll bump you for  "Best-written, off-base post of the day".

Originally posted by Alyvian

 you ain't forced to go to the abyss where the most of the pvp will be. and as such ya dont have to participate as ya can level to 50 just fine whitout ever entering the abys, you just miss a large bit of the lore associated with that area.

 

that and you will gain levels a bit slower, as abys mobs give higher xp and i think more drops as normal mobs outside the abys (which is logical as the risk is alot higher in the abys as in the normal leveling area's)

That is true...  Until a rift opens.

Don't look at me I loved Ultima Online in 97 and 98... I'm just saying...

Telling someone they don't have to go to the Abyss really isn't saying much.  My personal feeling is if they are this upset that someone might come through a rift and kill them... Then they probably are better off not buying the game.

Why?  Simply because they will not be happy, they will just be waiting for it to happen and then they will make a lot of noise about nerf this that or the other thing (or change it).

I'm not going to take a side in the arguement.   As normally this just consists on insults going one way or the other or talking about the effect it will have on THE game or HAD on some other game.  If you know up front something will bother you this much it is best to just avoid having it happen.

Obviously it HAS been a problem already as NCSoft had already started to make a penalty system for people who kill people lower level than them OUTSIDE of the Abyss.  Which does remind me of the start in UO... with the murder system.. stat loss etc

From my point of view the negative isn't the PvP that might happen outside of the Abyss.  Its the fact they are wasting resources having to put in a "penalty system" that could be used for bug fixes... content.. more customization etc etc

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by Alyvian

 you ain't forced to go to the abyss where the most of the pvp will be. and as such ya dont have to participate as ya can level to 50 just fine whitout ever entering the abys, you just miss a large bit of the lore associated with that area.

 

that and you will gain levels a bit slower, as abys mobs give higher xp and i think more drops as normal mobs outside the abys (which is logical as the risk is alot higher in the abys as in the normal leveling area's)

 

That is true...  Until a rift opens.

 

Don't look at me I loved Ultima Online in 97 and 98... I'm just saying...

 

Telling someone they don't have to go to the Abyss really isn't saying much.  My personal feeling is if they are this upset that someone might come through a rift and kill them... Then they probably are better off not buying the game.

 

Why?  Simply because they will not be happy, they will just be waiting for it to happen and then they will make a lot of noise about nerf this that or the other thing (or change it).

 

I'm not going to take a side in the arguement.   As normally this just consists on insults going one way or the other or talking about the effect it will have on THE game or HAD on some other game.  If you know up front something will bother you this much it is best to just avoid having it happen.

 

Obviously it HAS been a problem already as NCSoft had already started to make a penalty system for people who kill people lower level than them OUTSIDE of the Abyss.  Which does remind me of the start in UO... with the murder system.. stat loss etc

 

From my point of view the negative isn't the PvP that might happen outside of the Abyss.  Its the fact they are wasting resources having to put in a "penalty system" that could be used for bug fixes... content.. more customization etc etc

From what I have been hearing almost half of pvp encounters are occurring outside the abyss in Aion CN. Peeps going into the Abyss are most likely grouped and ready for battle while peeps availible by going through a rift are much easier targets.

I do agree with you on the developer resources being divided part. Your legion should pay back the ganker not force the game into making care bear adjustments.

Just who are the gankers going to gank outside the abyss?   With no carebears to gank there will be only other gankers to pvp against. If you go to the abyss and die without making a kill is there a reward? If you go to the abyss and make a kill and then die does that make the kill you made null and void or do you get something for just doing the pvp? If not, how many times are the lesser players going to go to the abyss and die without any type of reward? Pretty soon you have even less people to gank. There must be some reward system for just showing up but what i read is you get a point per kill and lose a point if you die. If this is how it works this game is doa. Someone tell me this isnt how it is.

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Just who are the gankers going to gank outside the abyss?   With no carebears to gank there will be only other gankers to pvp against. If you go to the abyss and die without making a kill is there a reward? If you go to the abyss and make a kill and then die does that make the kill you made null and void or do you get something for just doing the pvp? If not, how many times are the lesser players going to go to the abyss and die without any type of reward? Pretty soon you have even less people to gank. There must be some reward system for just showing up but what i read is you get a point per kill and lose a point if you die. If this is how it works this game is doa. Someone tell me this isnt how it is.

You get x amount for winning and lose x for being the loser. But there are ways through pve and whatnot to get points beyond pvp.

Hmm.. I think people are just giving forced pvp too much thought/attention. If you can learn to live with loud-mouth-brain-less-and-manner-less-kids such as myself, then the force PVP will not even exist in your tolerance world.

Say for example you are lvl 20 and moved to an area where rifts open. you are a happy bunny killing the monsters, picking the flowers and watering the gardens. All of a sudden a group of enemy players came your way and tested their skills on you. You feel annoyed, frustrated and respawn back to town/res point (there are res points even outside of city). That town/res point is not far from where you were. It maybe take you 5 minutes to ge there and but you will no see another bunch of enemy players for hours, unless you are very lucky and some others came through the rift and you happen to be a in the way. The chances of meeting more enemy players are very slim. During BETA we have limited time and we are eager to test all aspects of the game. Everyone is just killing opposing fractions for fun.

My point is in every game you have to put up with 1337 kids and loud mouth a lot more often than encountering an enemy/pvp battle. You cannot even chat or whisper to your enemy fraction, so just treat them like bunch of mobs. I know for a fact that it is a lot more frustrating having to put up with 1337 kids than being killed.

What would you do if you were gathering, a mob aggro you, stun you and kill you because you weren't prepared for it? You lost exp (you can buy a portion of lost exp from NPC), you get death sickness (sickness goes away after a short period, death sickness is cured if you buy back exp) and you have to come back to that spot for gathering again. You just live with it, take your revenge on the mob and carry on.

Do the same with enemy players. The benifit of player death is that you do not loose exp (you loose AP) and you can cure your death sickness with 1 kinah. If you get ganked by 6 enemy players, respawn and follow a group of people who are leaving city together heading towards enemy location and watch, after watching a few  times you will know how to defend yourself. Also your mini-map shows enemy players as red dots before they even come into viewing distance of your screen. If you do not want to fight, just port out (takes like 3-5 seconds casting).

All im saying is that, you will not find an enemy player everyday, you will not be ganked everyday, someday you might find lots of them, someday you may even kill them while defending yourself. You can get powerful healing/mana potions and much more powerful things with Abyss Points (AP), you gain AP if you manage to kill an enemy player.

Im a stuborn person myself. Sometimes I will not play a game just because I cannot find an attractive character. Eg. I downloaded and patched WoW, all ready with an account. Went online to make a character, could not find a cute character to make so i un-installed the game. WoW is the MMORPG king of this generation, millions of people enjoy it and I could not find a cute character to start the game. Thats just a stupid real example I gave you from my life. My expectation of Aion was sky high, when I played on Chinese server I was surprised and disappointed, I took a step back and started playing Aion without expecting anything. Now that my expectation and game play are coming into sync, im enjoying it so far.

Don't give up on Aion as whole simply because you MAY get killed by passing by enemies once or twice a day (someday more, in that case avoid that area and do a different quest). Once you get used to it, you might even enjoy killing enemy players who try to kill you. Happened to me, a Sin tried to kill my gladiator, too bad it didn't work for him. The game has other options.

Aion is not a perfect game, you are not a perfect person, im not a perfect person, the world is not perfect, nothing is perfect. Just treat Aion like a game, a time pass thing, a fun entertainment, not something like an ABSULUTE MUST! Step back from working so hard and thinking so hard about the game, it's a tool for your enjoyment and entertainment. Just like a movie, you enjoy most parts of it yet you ignore the rubbish part and remember the movie for what you enjoyed.

(jeeeezzz, can't believe I typed so much lol. Lunch hour sure went fast today :p)

I think Aion's PvP (RvR) system is very well thought out. Though you loose AP by dying there is still a good reason to go to Abyss.. and that is AP gained through PvE there. You can get your carrot even if there is no one around. The size of the carrot tho depends on your skill and cunning. Very cool.

And as for rifts... well imo the PvE carebears, raiders or whatever had their way for far too long. It's only fair that PvP people get a quality mmo finally, don't you think? It's not like we have that many options...

Originally posted by markoraos

I think Aion's PvP (RvR) system is very well thought out. Though you loose AP by dying there is still a good reason to go to Abyss.. and that is AP gained through PvE there. You can get your carrot even if there is no one around. The size of the carrot tho depends on your skill and cunning. Very cool.

And as for rifts... well imo the PvE carebears, raiders or whatever had their way for far too long. It's only fair that PvP people get a quality mmo finally, don't you think? It's not like we have that many options...

Aion is a pvp(ve) game. This was a design decision for the game. If a person does not like pvp, then Aion is most likely not the game for them. You will be ganked while leveling. You will be ganked while gathering. You will be ganked while questing. This is simply a way of life in a pvp game.

Now, if you like pvp Aion has incredible graphics, fast paced gameplay, and well thought out RvR as well as some pve stuff (aka raids / instances). The game also runs fairly smoothly.

Originally posted by catlana

Originally posted by markoraos

I think Aion's PvP (RvR) system is very well thought out. Though you loose AP by dying there is still a good reason to go to Abyss.. and that is AP gained through PvE there. You can get your carrot even if there is no one around. The size of the carrot tho depends on your skill and cunning. Very cool.

And as for rifts... well imo the PvE carebears, raiders or whatever had their way for far too long. It's only fair that PvP people get a quality mmo finally, don't you think? It's not like we have that many options...

Aion is a pvp(ve) game. This was a design decision for the game. If a person does not like pvp, then Aion is most likely not the game for them. You will be ganked while leveling. You will be ganked while gathering. You will be ganked while questing. This is simply a way of life in a pvp game.

 

Now, if you like pvp Aion has incredible graphics, fast paced gameplay, and well thought out RvR as well as some pve stuff (aka raids / instances). The game also runs fairly smoothly.

But again, this is not exactly true. Players will get notification when a rift opens up and they can remove themselves. It's not exactly optimum for non-pvp players but it should help.

So they have a lower chance of getting ganked. to that end, there is a debuff when the enemy is on your side for too long so it's not like they are going to get camped all day.

As I've stated wayyyyyy earlyier on in htis game's development, the pure pve players aren't going to like it and the hardcore pvp players aren't going to like it.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by catlana

Originally posted by markoraos

I think Aion's PvP (RvR) system is very well thought out. Though you loose AP by dying there is still a good reason to go to Abyss.. and that is AP gained through PvE there. You can get your carrot even if there is no one around. The size of the carrot tho depends on your skill and cunning. Very cool.

And as for rifts... well imo the PvE carebears, raiders or whatever had their way for far too long. It's only fair that PvP people get a quality mmo finally, don't you think? It's not like we have that many options...

Aion is a pvp(ve) game. This was a design decision for the game. If a person does not like pvp, then Aion is most likely not the game for them. You will be ganked while leveling. You will be ganked while gathering. You will be ganked while questing. This is simply a way of life in a pvp game.

 

Now, if you like pvp Aion has incredible graphics, fast paced gameplay, and well thought out RvR as well as some pve stuff (aka raids / instances). The game also runs fairly smoothly.

 

But again, this is not exactly true. Players will get notification when a rift opens up and they can remove themselves. It's not exactly optimum for non-pvp players but it should help.

So they have a lower chance of getting ganked. to that end, there is a debuff when the enemy is on your side for too long so it's not like they are going to get camped all day.

As I've stated wayyyyyy earlyier on in htis game's development, the pure pve players aren't going to like it and the hardcore pvp players aren't going to like it.

If I read correctly, the slayer debuff comes only after slaughtering an "excessive" number of much lower peeps. Time was not a factor in getting the debuff. You can camp a zone the entire day killing someone you dislike (especially with stealth) until someone kills you. There is a reason why the pvp articles are referring to about a 50 / 50 split towards pvp in Abyss / pvp outside the Abyss.

I am not saying that Aion is "solely" a pvp game. There are raids and instances as well. However, sugar coating the nature of the game will simply lead to unhappy pve carebears.

OP: You should really of researched the game more, because most people (hopefully) can see its a PvP game. I'm not really sure why you went on and on for the mute point of you don't like the game because you don't like open PvP.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by catlana

Originally posted by markoraos

I think Aion's PvP (RvR) system is very well thought out. Though you loose AP by dying there is still a good reason to go to Abyss.. and that is AP gained through PvE there. You can get your carrot even if there is no one around. The size of the carrot tho depends on your skill and cunning. Very cool.

And as for rifts... well imo the PvE carebears, raiders or whatever had their way for far too long. It's only fair that PvP people get a quality mmo finally, don't you think? It's not like we have that many options...

Aion is a pvp(ve) game. This was a design decision for the game. If a person does not like pvp, then Aion is most likely not the game for them. You will be ganked while leveling. You will be ganked while gathering. You will be ganked while questing. This is simply a way of life in a pvp game.

 

Now, if you like pvp Aion has incredible graphics, fast paced gameplay, and well thought out RvR as well as some pve stuff (aka raids / instances). The game also runs fairly smoothly.

 

But again, this is not exactly true. Players will get notification when a rift opens up and they can remove themselves. It's not exactly optimum for non-pvp players but it should help.

So they have a lower chance of getting ganked. to that end, there is a debuff when the enemy is on your side for too long so it's not like they are going to get camped all day.

As I've stated wayyyyyy earlyier on in htis game's development, the pure pve players aren't going to like it and the hardcore pvp players aren't going to like it.

Lets be realistic... If you are our killing mobs doing quests or harvesting and you see that a rift is opening how exactly do you avoid it??  The game from what I've played seems pretty linear for pve in that you go from zone to zone as you level.  There isn't a lot of variation so I can't say go to another zone and do quests.  So really what are my options to avoid pvp?   Go hole up in the nearest outpost?   And even if I was going to do something silly like that for how long do you wait till it is safe?  My understanding is that the rift lets a bunch of people in but there isn't any limit on how long they will be around other then debufs from killing too many times and eventually dying.

I like the abyss part of the game and even the rifts could be fun but not if they open so frequently and players that come thorugh can basically hang our indefinitely.  I can certainly see an occassional rift creating a fun little diversion going an hunting invading PCs.  But again only as an event that isn't something you are constantly having to deal with when what you really want to do is complete some quests.

 Don't flame if this has already been said i don't wanna read like 19 pages.So i thought if it is forced pvp that makes it more exciting but if your more into pve wouldn't that mean more of a reason to group with people make a few friends you can trust to help you live?

I'm not a pvp-er either, well that means I like variation and a bit of choice in a game. None the less I'm certainly going to try Aion and see how it turns out.

Originally posted by ethion

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by catlana

Originally posted by markoraos

I think Aion's PvP (RvR) system is very well thought out. Though you loose AP by dying there is still a good reason to go to Abyss.. and that is AP gained through PvE there. You can get your carrot even if there is no one around. The size of the carrot tho depends on your skill and cunning. Very cool.

And as for rifts... well imo the PvE carebears, raiders or whatever had their way for far too long. It's only fair that PvP people get a quality mmo finally, don't you think? It's not like we have that many options...

Aion is a pvp(ve) game. This was a design decision for the game. If a person does not like pvp, then Aion is most likely not the game for them. You will be ganked while leveling. You will be ganked while gathering. You will be ganked while questing. This is simply a way of life in a pvp game.

 

Now, if you like pvp Aion has incredible graphics, fast paced gameplay, and well thought out RvR as well as some pve stuff (aka raids / instances). The game also runs fairly smoothly.

 

But again, this is not exactly true. Players will get notification when a rift opens up and they can remove themselves. It's not exactly optimum for non-pvp players but it should help.

So they have a lower chance of getting ganked. to that end, there is a debuff when the enemy is on your side for too long so it's not like they are going to get camped all day.

As I've stated wayyyyyy earlyier on in htis game's development, the pure pve players aren't going to like it and the hardcore pvp players aren't going to like it.

 

Lets be realistic... If you are our killing mobs doing quests or harvesting and you see that a rift is opening how exactly do you avoid it??  The game from what I've played seems pretty linear for pve in that you go from zone to zone as you level.  There isn't a lot of variation so I can't say go to another zone and do quests.  So really what are my options to avoid pvp?   Go hole up in the nearest outpost?   And even if I was going to do something silly like that for how long do you wait till it is safe?  My understanding is that the rift lets a bunch of people in but there isn't any limit on how long they will be around other then debufs from killing too many times and eventually dying.

I like the abyss part of the game and even the rifts could be fun but not if they open so frequently and players that come thorugh can basically hang our indefinitely.  I can certainly see an occassional rift creating a fun little diversion going an hunting invading PCs.  But again only as an event that isn't something you are constantly having to deal with when what you really want to do is complete some quests.

Well, you're right.

But that is the choice.

If a player doesn't want to pvp they have to either announce that the enemy is there so that others who enjoy it will take care of (or attempt to take care of) the situation and/or go do something else. or wait it out a little.

I believe the debuffs do limit how long they can be there. There have been several posts about people complaining about them.

But at least you get a warning. It's not like Lineage 2 where you won't know you are being attacked until you are being attacked.

It stinks for those people who don't like pvp but there it is. I would have to see it first hand to see how many times they open up and how long I can be on the other side.

My thought is this. People need to put themselves in the right mind frame and just try the game out (if they are inclined to do so) and just see for themselves.

Look, I played Lineage 2 for over 4 years and in no way would I be considered a hardcore pvp player. I really like it but I'm not really into the ganking and the like. I started that game with the idea that I would try it for a week if that. I remember leaving dark elf village with about 10 people on either side of me and watching for everyone of them to turn and start attacking me. But it didn't happen.

Oh, eventually it happened and I was able to go back and take my attacker out.

Point being is that I saw how the system worked and found enough good in the game that I was able to do well enough and have a good time.

I think that if players are reticent to play aion it can't hurt to try it and see. If they get ganked just hit "back to city" and think about whether or not they might just take a break or if it really was a bit until they got attacked and that they just ignored the rift warning. In other words, it might not be that bad and just a minor inconvenience.

Or they might decided "screw this" and do something else. Doing something else is always better than doing something you hate.

Honestly, how hard would it be to create PvE and PvP servers and let players decide what they prefer?

You know, there is this other game that did it that way, and it's pretty popular. It's done really well in NA, EU, and Asia.

I can't think of the name of that game though... you know which one... elves and orcs and such... classes... some dude named Arthas...

Anyone? Little help?

Originally posted by Bureyku

They don't try to deceive.  They just try to take what works from multiple MMO's and make a hybrid of it.  Rather than the same boring system from start to finish they start out with a quest heavy linear PvE progression and it turns into an all out war between factions.

If you don't like the game concept then simply don't play.  No single playstyle is being forced down anyone's throat because of fans of another playstyle.  The game is what it is, and that info is readily available. 

This 100%  I don't remember ever seeing this game advertised without PvP, it's a big part of the game and story

Can't say I have much pity for OP as I am pretty sure that the PvP emphasis was pretty obvious.  As for not liking to be killed, I've played on WoW PvE servers, and you know what I hate getting worse then being camped and killed? I hate it when players, because they cannot kill me, instead decide to take it on themselves to steal my every kill, camp the quest givers and grief without killing me.   And what's worse... is when I can't fight back. 

As for real life, "PvP" is everywhere.  Sports are competitions between players, not moronic AI.  Even most board games are player pitted against player.  Why do people like to play these games instead of just playing solo in a batting cage or hitting ping pong balls against a wall? People like the challenge and the risk involved in competition.  The same can be applied to Aion and any number of MMO's.  I don't think an MMO can BE an MMO without PvP, by the way, I do not consider competitions to gear up faster to be "PvP" there is no real direct competition, because in competition, there is always offense and defense, gathering gear has none. 

For PvP, I love pvp(applying to WoW).  I liked exploring and just chatting too, I found raiding excessively boring and crafting, unless really well done to be even more so (I actually enjoyed crafting in Aion).  I also have a disdain for those reliant on gear, and those reliant on CD's.  My gear has never ever been top notch, since the best gear comes from a combination of raiding and grinding BG's, in fact, my gear was always pretty crappy.  I find BG's to be boring btw.  I found that I can stand my own in the world itself.  I dont have one hundred alts all level 80, but i played a fury warrior, MM hunter and hybrid fire/arcane mage.  I don't enter the world looking for fights expecting to get kills.   I go into the world, looking for fights, expecting good fights.  I never camped unless camped first, and I practically ignored lowbies unless attacked by them.   When world pvp was scarce to be found, you could usually find someone to duel-which was a lot of fun too.   I no longer have my account as I sold it along with the shitty gear my toons were wearing. I quit after I got tired of the lack of meaningful world pvp.  I have been excited for Aion the past 2 years after reading about it  and seeing the first trailers both for the art style and the PvP.   I do not think the PvP to be so heavy as to scare away the majority of PvE'ers and I have found the majority of PvE'ers to not mind PvP once in a while.  If  getting attacked or having to run from an attack every couple hours is not once in a while, then I don't know what is.

I understand the Op.. but unfortunaly.. this is where mmos going to at the moment..

The young players using their daddy credit cards to pay for the  absense of most use the game to vent their social frustations and psychologic unbalance state of mind, and they use and want and demand violence to ease the pain.. and thats why PvP so looked for in a games format nowadays.

I been playing games since like the 90s and seen the evolution of the PvP playerbase.. most dont do it for fun anymore..

Pitty tho.. games are ment to be fun, and forcing a player who is looking for a hearty relaxing fun game like the op to engage into stressful frustrated kiddie digital pvp can spoil the fun for sure.

Originally posted by EduardoASG

I understand the Op.. but unfortunaly.. this is where mmos going to at the moment..

The young players using their daddy credit cards to pay for the  absense of most use the game to vent their social frustations and psychologic unbalance state of mind, and they use and want and demand violence to ease the pain.. and thats why PvP so looked for in a games format nowadays.

I been playing games since like the 90s and seen the evolution of the PvP playerbase.. most dont do it for fun anymore..

Pitty tho.. games are ment to be fun, and forcing a player who is looking for a hearty relaxing fun game like the op to engage into stressful frustrated kiddie digital pvp can spoil the fun for sure.

Not always. I think we are sometimes jaded about things these days. The playerbase isnt that bad from what I have seen and a good amount of really decent folks. But I have seen what you describe also. Sadly in a way the general community gets hammered for what the very very vocal minority shout at the top of the rooftops.

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by namelessbob

Forced pvp the same way you are forced to log into the game. Rofl at the stupidity of the original posters wall of text.

Let me put it in simple terms because it seems many in the Aion community would rather attack the person making the comment than debate/discuss the issue at hand:

I am out PVE'ing in  a zone. I am minding my own business doing a quest when a rift opens up. 10-20 players come through and kill me.

All of the sudden the CHOICE for me to PVP has been taken from me. Maybe I didn't want to PVP at that moment. Maybe I needed that one last mob for  a quest right before I was headed to sleep. Maybe I was going after a named or trying to get that last crafting item I needed.

Now I have been killed and this "forced" pvp has interrupted my evening and what I want to do. I did not CHOOSE to PVP, the choice was made for me by the game and its design.

How many times will this happen before people who like CHOICES (like myself and Girlgeek above) leave the game? Not many, I promise you that. Luckily, for me, I learned this well in advance so I will not be purchasing the game.

The other issue is, outside of the Aion fanboi community, NCSoft is not making this a well known aspect of the game. It is almost hush hush and a lot of people (as evidenced by many in these forums who tried the beta weekends - like me) were not aware of this design feature. It honestly borders on the ole bait and switch tactic if you ask me.

What people are meaning by forced is that you, as the player, have no choice to PVP or not.

There is a lot of mis-information being put out by NCSoft about the PvE aspect of this game.  This is one article:

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200906/N09.0624.1142.34905.htm?Page=1

This is  a quote from that article from Lani:

"Players can choose to play the game strictly PvE style, or they can enter the Abyss and take part in PvPvE."

It's statements like this that are misleading.  You can't play the game in it's current form without engaging in PvP at sometime even if you don't want to at the time.  So NCsoft should retract statements like the one above that might lead people to buy the game thinking it is possible to avoid PvP.   Or another alternative that would be best for all is to create non forced PvE servers where rifts do not open at all, but the Abyss still exists.  There is a HUGE PvE market out there that will pass this game by if they are forced into PvP.   The reality is some of us don't like getting ganked by frustrated 12-16 year olds who are just mad at the world.