I’m a very team oriented person and rarely like solo games. Heh, I basically rarely play single player games and most MMOs I play are with my clan or friends. That being said, I don’t really understand why someone would go play an MMO solo. Calling everyone except yourself a social outcast and misfit makes you look like a retard. Do you have such a small narrowed mind that you cannot even think for a moment that hardcore players are not always what you think?

You talk about social skills and how communities work but the fact that you posted that completely contradicts your words. It is socially retarded to post crap like that on forums. You’re basically trying to show everyone that you’re better.

As for the time spent on a game… well duh. Let’s say you’re a musician and you practice 1 or 2 casual hours a week. Do you think that you should deserve the same amount praise, offers and rewards as someone that practices 20+ hours per week? I mean, if you look at it the logical way, 20+ hours and hours of work, doesn’t leave a lot of room for a good social life, you’re basically a hermit playing music.

If you want a game that rewards both the casual and hardcore, go play EVE. I’m actually serious here. I’m a very casual player and yet, I still managed to get into one of the best alliance in the game + when I play, I’m pretty “badass” as you would put it.

Before analyzing a situation, you should first learn how to properly do it. I understand what you're trying to do but you're doing it wrong.

Originally posted by Ponico

 I’m a very team oriented person and rarely like solo games. Heh, I basically rarely play single player games and most MMOs I play are with my clan or friends. That being said, I don’t really understand why someone would go play an MMO solo. Calling everyone except yourself a social outcast and misfit makes you look like a retard. Do you have such a small narrowed mind that you cannot even think for a moment that hardcore players are not always what you think?

You talk about social skills and how communities work but the fact that you posted that completely contradicts your words. It is socially retarded to post crap like that on forums. You’re basically trying to show everyone that you’re better.

As for the time spent on a game… well duh. Let’s say you’re a musician and you practice 1 or 2 casual hours a week. Do you think that you should deserve the same amount praise, offers and rewards as someone that practices 20+ hours per week? I mean, if you look at it the logical way, 20+ hours and hours of work, doesn’t leave a lot of room for a good social life, you’re basically a hermit playing music.

If you want a game that rewards both the casual and hardcore, go play EVE. I’m actually serious here. I’m a very casual player and yet, I still managed to get into one of the best alliance in the game + when I play, I’m pretty “badass” as you would put it.

Before analyzing a situation, you should first learn how to properly do it. I understand what you're trying to do but you're doing it wrong.

Thanks for making my point.

Originally posted by Ponico

 I’m a very team oriented person and rarely like solo games. Heh, I basically rarely play single player games and most MMOs I play are with my clan or friends. That being said, I don’t really understand why someone would go play an MMO solo. Calling everyone except yourself a social outcast and misfit makes you look like a retard. Do you have such a small narrowed mind that you cannot even think for a moment that hardcore players are not always what you think?

You talk about social skills and how communities work but the fact that you posted that completely contradicts your words. It is socially retarded to post crap like that on forums. You’re basically trying to show everyone that you’re better.

As for the time spent on a game… well duh. Let’s say you’re a musician and you practice 1 or 2 casual hours a week. Do you think that you should deserve the same amount praise, offers and rewards as someone that practices 20+ hours per week? I mean, if you look at it the logical way, 20+ hours and hours of work, doesn’t leave a lot of room for a good social life, you’re basically a hermit playing music.

If you want a game that rewards both the casual and hardcore, go play EVE. I’m actually serious here. I’m a very casual player and yet, I still managed to get into one of the best alliance in the game + when I play, I’m pretty “badass” as you would put it.

Before analyzing a situation, you should first learn how to properly do it. I understand what you're trying to do but you're doing it wrong.

I'm fairly certain that people socialize in very different ways. Some people have a lot of "friends" though the reality is that they would probably be considered acquaintances. Some have a small group of close people, some have to be alone, some actually do have a lot of friends who they can rely upon for anything in a pinch.

If one can't understand why people solo in mmo's then the truth is that THEY can't understand it. No shame in that. I keep posting why  but  it doesn't seem anyone really cares to know or they are just too adamant that their view of the world is the only one. This of course shocks me in this day and age, but whatever. If I were to enter everyone's life would I be impressed or horrified by the decisions they made? The reality is that they wouldn't care what other people think because people do what they do for their own reasons.

I can be fairly certain that people who solo in mmo's probably do so because they have very good reasons. I could easily make some sort of snide remark about people who have to play in teams and can't play alone but that would just be ridiculous.

The musician analogy almost works. I AM a musician and though I used to practice 4 hours per day there were people who only needed to practice two hours per day. I also know someone who doesn't practice and his technique is practically perfect. He can't compete because you have to be perfect but to play gigs he would never have to practice. I suppose your poin is taken though it does beg the question as to when did games become something that people worked for or that one had to compete in the pro circuit?

In the end, it doesn't matter how much you practice but what the end result is. I can write music for a few hours and pretty much keep everything I write. I know of people who woudl spend all day writing and throw everything out. A waste that.

In any case, different but equal rewards could be given to people who solo and people who group. You can't penalize people who solo because then they will never be able to group. However, if there is a raiding game or a pvp part I don't see any reason why rewards can't be given for people who actually take part  in those events.

I do say that I completely agree with you in that people should not throw stones in glass houses. I'm pretty certain that anyone saying that anyone else is a social outcast, on a video game site, will be looked at by a good part of humanity as having way too much time on their hands. As a coworker said to me last week, "adults really do that?" [play video games].

In the end it's really up to each other as to how they want to play. Unfortunately, people can have this debate over and over. It is a bit moot at this point as most games have some sort of solo capability. It's probably because once game companies realize that people would play their games if only they could mitigate the whole "looking for group" issue then they got a lot more subs.

I would be failry curious to see what games that die hard grouping players are playing. Because I have not played in a game where one couldn't solo a good part of the content.

I can understand why the OP is angry. I've played with many guilds in many MMOs and a great deal of them were focused mainly on gearing the officers. The problem stems from gear based games where the people with better gear are rewarded over those with lesser gear. Social grace then takes a back seat to people with 'epic gears', so what you end up with is a guild that's run by jerks with good gear and they get to dictate who gets what.

Not all guilds are like this, but I'm sure the OP just hasn't had the fortune of playing with any nice guilds.

 Hehe, I’m also a musician and hence why I can only be a casual gamer. 40+ hours work + 15 hours of practice per week is yeah… a lot but a necessary task for gigs. It is true that I know some folks that can wipe the floor with only 1 or 2 hours a week of practice but still… The term practice makes perfect applies to most people.

Well of course, I do have my solo moments for X and Z reasons. Still, reward wise… It’s hard to balance it to be fair for everyone. On one side of the fence, you have 20+ players trying to kill the boss. Once he’s dead, 3 nice item drops. While on the casual solo player, he goes through a dungeon and gets a nice item at the end?

Not sure if that’s actually fair… It basicaly means that the group content is more of a pain in the ass then actually being worth it. I’m sure there’s a way to balance it but the current MMO market is based on LOOTs and therefore, I doubt you’ll ever see a game that can be fair to everyone except skill based games like EVE.

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by Lunicur

 If you want a solo game why are you playing an MMO?

Because there is nothing inherently team-based about MMOs?

There is also nothing saying it isn't a team based game, and so far the majority of MMO's are team based, so if anything we are more in the right with past MMO experience.

 Magical changing colors, we're making a rainbow. :)

The majority of MMOs allow you to choose your play style.  If you want to team, you can team.  If you want to solo, you can solo.  Therefore, the majority of MMOs are neither team based nor solo based, they are play-based.

And if I'm playing an MMO I better be able to be superior to someone.

Why, are you that shallow that you have to show off a bunch of colored pixels to feel good about yourself?  Seriously?

Its a game, why do people play games? to have FUN and to WIN. and if you have to have that new sword, and you want to spend a hour grinding for it.......DO IT! If they made it so people wern't superior to others it would be no fun and MMO's would die. So you sir are retarded. (I mean that in the real sense)

 But is having that super sword something that will help you win, or is it just something that lets you swing your e-peen?  You fail to see the  difference between getting a tool for use as a tool and getting a tool so you can show off and pretend you're better than everyone else.

You, sir, are an idiot if you can't see the difference.  Now grow the hell up.

We all work hard for our rare items, our money, our rare mounts, and whatever else the MMO you're playing allows for.

Only insofar as they make playing the game easier.  I don't want that rare item because I can show off, I want it because it causes more damage in combat, has better protective value than what I was using or lets me get somewhere faster. 

But why do you want to cause more damage in combat? infact why are you fighting at all? well, probably to level....and to level faster, why do you want to level? to get better gear. people (everyone) likes flashy items, thats why in games they give away "pets, rare swords, cool mounts" and why in RL people get nice cars, big houses

 Because you're playing a game and in any game, as you progress, the enemies get harder and you need to improve your gear and your skills to be able to continue progressing.  That's the point of playing a game, *ANY* game.  Acting like hot shit because you've got a flashy sword is just a sign of immaturity.

Yes, people in RL do the same thing and they're just as immature as the people who do it in a game.  But at the end of the day, at least what they have is real.

MMO communities are exactly like real life. Why do you think people strive to have the most expensive luxuries in RL? Humans are competitve and we crave power. We want to feel like we have some sort of worth, that's why these things are so popular.

Because people are stupid and shallow and equate having flashy things with being better people.  They're also wrong.

So now we are talking about the human race, and what drives people. lemme guess, you live in a trailer home, work at McDonals and drive a old clunker and are completly satisfied?......get real

 No, actually.  Married with two children, own my own business, own a big house with 10 acres.  What do you have?  Going to wave your pathetic little dick around some more?  But of course, I don't have anything to prove in an online game, I'm not here to feel better about myself RL, I don't have to.

It's pathetic that you do.

Either stop b*tching or GTFO.

You're just proving the OP right, that the people who want all this stuff are the social outcasts, the screwed up people who want to strut around like peacocks because they hope it'll make people respect them.

In my other post about 2 post up I give a nice detailed post about how this is actually not true at all. you are grouping alot of people togeather to prove a point, so you do hate blacks because 65% of people in prisions are black? do you hate all muslims because so far every terrorist attack on the US has been by a muslim?

It's amazing that later on you accuse me of being racist when you're the only one who has ever brought up race.  Project much?

In other words, exactly the kind of people most of us don't want to play with.

So far we have decided that you are a hatefull, racist, non-human,...thing with a huge lack of achievment.

Sounds like no one wants to play with you.....(maybe thats why you like single player games?)

Wow, managed to get racist out of it?  How in the hell did you do that?

And the funny thing is, I can get into any group I want to, I build teams like crazy when I have the need to, but I don't do it just to be in a team, I do it for specific purposes.  You, on the other hand, sound like someone who can only feel liked if you've got a pile of people around you who are only using you for their own individual needs.  You are aware that's the way MMO grouping works, right?  Or aren't you that smart?

 

 

Originally posted by Ponico

 Hehe, I’m also a musician and hence why I can only be a casual gamer. 40+ hours work + 15 hours of practice per week is yeah… a lot but a necessary task for gigs. It is true that I know some folks that can wipe the floor with only 1 or 2 hours a week of practice but still… The term practice makes perfect applies to most people.

Well of course, I do have my solo moments for X and Z reasons. Still, reward wise… It’s hard to balance it to be fair for everyone. On one side of the fence, you have 20+ players trying to kill the boss. Once he’s dead, 3 nice item drops. While on the casual solo player, he goes through a dungeon and gets a nice item at the end?

Not sure if that’s actually fair… It basicaly means that the group content is more of a pain in the ass then actually being worth it. I’m sure there’s a way to balance it but the current MMO market is based on LOOTs and therefore, I doubt you’ll ever see a game that can be fair to everyone except skill based games like EVE.

Well it isn't fair.. That is why I believe that there needs to be separate items. Before LOTRO added mines of moria, there was pvp gear. I was not interested in lotro pvp, especially as a tank, so I didn't partake. However, I could buy crafted gear and get quest gear that wouldn't gimp me too much if I was to pvp or just do anything else.

people who love raiding should get gear by raiding. same for pvp. PvE can have a mix of a lot of things. I've yet to play a game where the pve portion absolutely required the best gear. Other than raids that is.

Originally posted by Meleagar

After reading several players comment about how no  one would group in a game unless they were forced by goals or mechanics to do so......

This is an issue most people on this forum are very wrong about.  Most people in CoX group.  And no on is forced to by goals or mechanics. 

Unless you consider leveling about twice as fast a goals or mechanic.  

Originally posted by Ebonyfly

I have no problem with the idea that there should be MMOs designed to cater specifically for the solo player but i think the argument you are using to justify this is self-defeating. If it is so important to you to have access to the best gear and be a 1st class citizen then you are displaying exactly the same obsessive social dysfunctions that you are so happy to accuse others of possessing. Perhaps even more so since you want to achieve your rewards on your own rather than as part of a team.

I think it is counter-intuitive to imagine that a game which promotes solo play will have a better community than games which promote group play. The bonds of a community are not built by global chat channels but through shared adventures, mutual assistance and overcoming adversity. I don't know what others have found and these are not the only factors but in my experience the more solo and casual friendly a game is the worse the community.

 

This.  I have already tried to get the OP to see that a treadmill is a treadmill.  You can't expect people not to focus on achieving awards if that is what your focus is.  It is pure self-delusion.

As for everyone else, let me explain the different game types:

Grinder:  a rat race to see who can acquire the most powerful items and abilities.

Multiplayer: a game that involves teams or PvP interaction

Singleplayer:  not multiplayer

MMO:  A massively multiplayer online game.  It is not necessarily a "team" game, nor is it necessarily a grinder, nor is it solo-oriented.  To find out what it is, ask yourself why the game would need a large number of players playing within the same game world.

Originally posted by Celeras

Judging by your post, you're the problem.

I read this whole thread and nothing came close to the first reply.  It's short, it goes straight to the point, and it's completely accurate.

OP wants to feel superior to everyone without doing anything to prove that he is, in fact, actually superior to everyone else.  My guess is this applies to his RL and well as MMOs.

I had a long rant here but it's unnecessary so I'll just snip it out and save you all the TLDR crap.

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by Lunicur

 If you want a solo game why are you playing an MMO?

Because there is nothing inherently team-based about MMOs?

There is also nothing saying it isn't a team based game, and so far the majority of MMO's are team based, so if anything we are more in the right with past MMO experience.

 Magical changing colors, we're making a rainbow. :)

The majority of MMOs allow you to choose your play style.  If you want to team, you can team.  If you want to solo, you can solo.  Therefore, the majority of MMOs are neither team based nor solo based, they are play-based.

Ok so your saying you have no problem with FFXI? (which as I mentioned before is thee most team based mmo out there?) You can CHOOSE to play on a team, or level by yourself. Just one takes longer.

 

And if I'm playing an MMO I better be able to be superior to someone.

Why, are you that shallow that you have to show off a bunch of colored pixels to feel good about yourself?  Seriously?

Its a game, why do people play games? to have FUN and to WIN. and if you have to have that new sword, and you want to spend a hour grinding for it.......DO IT! If they made it so people wern't superior to others it would be no fun and MMO's would die. So you sir are retarded. (I mean that in the real sense)

 But is having that super sword something that will help you win, or is it just something that lets you swing your e-peen?  You fail to see the  difference between getting a tool for use as a tool and getting a tool so you can show off and pretend you're better than everyone else.

You, sir, are an idiot if you can't see the difference.  Now grow the hell up.

Grow the hell up? i'm convinced you are correct now.

 

We all work hard for our rare items, our money, our rare mounts, and whatever else the MMO you're playing allows for.

Only insofar as they make playing the game easier.  I don't want that rare item because I can show off, I want it because it causes more damage in combat, has better protective value than what I was using or lets me get somewhere faster. 

But why do you want to cause more damage in combat? infact why are you fighting at all? well, probably to level....and to level faster, why do you want to level? to get better gear. people (everyone) likes flashy items, thats why in games they give away "pets, rare swords, cool mounts" and why in RL people get nice cars, big houses

 Because you're playing a game and in any game, as you progress, the enemies get harder and you need to improve your gear and your skills to be able to continue progressing.  That's the point of playing a game, *ANY* game.  Acting like hot shit because you've got a flashy sword is just a sign of immaturity.

Yes, people in RL do the same thing and they're just as immature as the people who do it in a game.  But at the end of the day, at least what they have is real.

So you've never got an extra mile in any MMO to get somthing that only had flashy value? An extra pet, maybe some event that gives you somthing......That bear mount in WoW?

I find that kinda hard to believe...but this being the internet i'm sure you'll lie.

 

MMO communities are exactly like real life. Why do you think people strive to have the most expensive luxuries in RL? Humans are competitve and we crave power. We want to feel like we have some sort of worth, that's why these things are so popular.

Because people are stupid and shallow and equate having flashy things with being better people.  They're also wrong.

So now we are talking about the human race, and what drives people. lemme guess, you live in a trailer home, work at McDonals and drive a old clunker and are completly satisfied?......get real

 No, actually.  Married with two children, own my own business, own a big house with 10 acres.  What do you have?  Going to wave your pathetic little dick around some more?  But of course, I don't have anything to prove in an online game, I'm not here to feel better about myself RL, I don't have to.

It's pathetic that you do.

Why do you own a large house if you only have 2 kids? do you have more then 2 veicles? do you enjoy nice cloths? these are all things that drive people to do better, just the same in a MMO, "i'm going to play the extra 2 hours and do that little bit of research online to get this better gear because it looks cool and has good stats"

Truth is you did buy that bigger house, 3rd car, motorcycle...whatever, to feel better. to have more...

 

Either stop b*tching or GTFO.

You're just proving the OP right, that the people who want all this stuff are the social outcasts, the screwed up people who want to strut around like peacocks because they hope it'll make people respect them.

In my other post about 2 post up I give a nice detailed post about how this is actually not true at all. you are grouping alot of people togeather to prove a point, so you do hate blacks because 65% of people in prisions are black? do you hate all muslims because so far every terrorist attack on the US has been by a muslim?

It's amazing that later on you accuse me of being racist when you're the only one who has ever brought up race.  Project much?

Lol you've brought up a c*ck twice already, eather you want to see mine, or you are projecting....

 

In other words, exactly the kind of people most of us don't want to play with.

So far we have decided that you are a hatefull, racist, non-human,...thing with a huge lack of achievment.

Sounds like no one wants to play with you.....(maybe thats why you like single player games?)

Wow, managed to get racist out of it?  How in the hell did you do that?

And the funny thing is, I can get into any group I want to, I build teams like crazy when I have the need to, but I don't do it just to be in a team, I do it for specific purposes.  You, on the other hand, sound like someone who can only feel liked if you've got a pile of people around you who are only using you for their own individual needs.  You are aware that's the way MMO grouping works, right?  Or aren't you that smart?

Of course they are there for there "own needs". but you can still have fun doing it. thats what this whole thread is about, the community. Like I said before you must not have play'd much more then WoW, because there are some great games out there with great communitys. Sure we are all leveling for us, sure we want to get great gear. But you can still be polite, hang out, have fun, chat it up, at the same time.

Maybe you arn't capable of that, I dunno....

 

 

 

 

The OP keeps mentioning equal rewards in mmos.  I guess this part confuses me.  He actually thinks that the hardcore gamers are the only ones possible to attain some things.  This is in fact wrong.  A casual gamer can attain anything that a hardcore gamer can unless its something like in Wow with the pvp ranks, since there was only one rank 1 only the person who plays 15 hours a day and lets a friend play the rest of the time can get it.  I hate wow and I have never seen something like that on other games.

I have never been a lifeless nerd who plays all day on an mmo.  I have a job, I have a life that requires my time but I still find plenty of free time to relax and play an mmo.  The most I ever got into one was when I was in school and maybe in the summer I would play like 6 hours a day. 

I dont expect equal rewards in mmos.  It just doesnt make sense to me, if im killing 50 mobs in 2 hours why should I get the same xp/loot as someone who just killed 300 mobs in 10 hours?  The people who spend more time are always going to be more advanced than someone who doesnt.  This goes for all things in life not just mmos.  I cant expect to pickup a basketball and be better than Michael Jordan can I?  I hate basketball and havent devoted any time at all to it since I was 12 so of course others are going to be better than me. 

However in nearly every mmo just because that person plays 15 hours a day doesnt mean only he will be able to get those items.  It just takes him much less time to do so.  In my experience these people usually quit in less than a year because they are always so far ahead of everyone and say they have done everything.  I will be able to get the same things as him playing 2-3 hours a day, its just going to take me longer and I have no problem with that.

Originally posted by GreenChaos

Originally posted by Meleagar

After reading several players comment about how no  one would group in a game unless they were forced by goals or mechanics to do so......

 

This is an issue most people on this forum are very wrong about.  Most people in CoX group.  And no on is forced to by goals or mechanics. 

Unless you consider leveling about twice as fast a goals or mechanic.  

Leveling twice as fast is a HUGE draw for grouping. 

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by Lunicur

 If you want a solo game why are you playing an MMO?

Because there is nothing inherently team-based about MMOs?

There is also nothing saying it isn't a team based game, and so far the majority of MMO's are team based, so if anything we are more in the right with past MMO experience.

 Magical changing colors, we're making a rainbow. :)

The majority of MMOs allow you to choose your play style.  If you want to team, you can team.  If you want to solo, you can solo.  Therefore, the majority of MMOs are neither team based nor solo based, they are play-based.

Ok so your saying you have no problem with FFXI? (which as I mentioned before is thee most team based mmo out there?) You can CHOOSE to play on a team, or level by yourself. Just one takes longer.

 Have I ever said I had a problem with it?  I don't.  I have a problem with people who demand that nobody be allowed to play solo ever, if you can play solo and play team, where's the issue?

 

We all work hard for our rare items, our money, our rare mounts, and whatever else the MMO you're playing allows for.

Only insofar as they make playing the game easier.  I don't want that rare item because I can show off, I want it because it causes more damage in combat, has better protective value than what I was using or lets me get somewhere faster. 

But why do you want to cause more damage in combat? infact why are you fighting at all? well, probably to level....and to level faster, why do you want to level? to get better gear. people (everyone) likes flashy items, thats why in games they give away "pets, rare swords, cool mounts" and why in RL people get nice cars, big houses

 Because you're playing a game and in any game, as you progress, the enemies get harder and you need to improve your gear and your skills to be able to continue progressing.  That's the point of playing a game, *ANY* game.  Acting like hot shit because you've got a flashy sword is just a sign of immaturity.

Yes, people in RL do the same thing and they're just as immature as the people who do it in a game.  But at the end of the day, at least what they have is real.

So you've never got an extra mile in any MMO to get somthing that only had flashy value? An extra pet, maybe some event that gives you somthing......That bear mount in WoW?

I find that kinda hard to believe...but this being the internet i'm sure you'll lie.

 Can't say I have.  I'm entirely disinterested.  What I look like doesn't matter, in fact for most of my toons, whatever I happen to be wearing is what I look like.  If I have the option of a social tab, I usually keep it turned off.  I'm interested in substance, not flash and it doesn't make a bit of difference if you believe it or not.

MMO communities are exactly like real life. Why do you think people strive to have the most expensive luxuries in RL? Humans are competitve and we crave power. We want to feel like we have some sort of worth, that's why these things are so popular.

Because people are stupid and shallow and equate having flashy things with being better people.  They're also wrong.

So now we are talking about the human race, and what drives people. lemme guess, you live in a trailer home, work at McDonals and drive a old clunker and are completly satisfied?......get real

 No, actually.  Married with two children, own my own business, own a big house with 10 acres.  What do you have?  Going to wave your pathetic little dick around some more?  But of course, I don't have anything to prove in an online game, I'm not here to feel better about myself RL, I don't have to.

It's pathetic that you do.

Why do you own a large house if you only have 2 kids? do you have more then 2 veicles? do you enjoy nice cloths? these are all things that drive people to do better, just the same in a MMO, "i'm going to play the extra 2 hours and do that little bit of research online to get this better gear because it looks cool and has good stats"

Truth is you did buy that bigger house, 3rd car, motorcycle...whatever, to feel better. to have more...

 Yeah, actually we have 3 cars, one of which never gets driven and we'll probably be getting rid of it.  Don't really care about flashy clothes, when I'm not at work, I'm all about t-shirts and jeans, I don't care what anyone thinks about how I look there either.  Obviously the situation changes at work where the expectation is suit and tie.

It's amazing how you can simply pull all that stuff out of your ass and think you have a clue what you're talking about.  I have a big house and a large plot of land because everyone who lives out where I do has one.    It's an upscale area where there's low crime, no graffiti, good schools and you don't have to worry about nosy neighbors peering through your windows because their houses are 6 feet away from yours.  My closest neighbor is a half-mile away.

The truth is, you don't have a goddamn clue.  Anyone surprised?

Either stop b*tching or GTFO.

You're just proving the OP right, that the people who want all this stuff are the social outcasts, the screwed up people who want to strut around like peacocks because they hope it'll make people respect them.

In my other post about 2 post up I give a nice detailed post about how this is actually not true at all. you are grouping alot of people togeather to prove a point, so you do hate blacks because 65% of people in prisions are black? do you hate all muslims because so far every terrorist attack on the US has been by a muslim?

It's amazing that later on you accuse me of being racist when you're the only one who has ever brought up race.  Project much?

Lol you've brought up a c*ck twice already, eather you want to see mine, or you are projecting....

 Learn to spell.

In other words, exactly the kind of people most of us don't want to play with.

So far we have decided that you are a hatefull, racist, non-human,...thing with a huge lack of achievment.

Sounds like no one wants to play with you.....(maybe thats why you like single player games?)

Wow, managed to get racist out of it?  How in the hell did you do that?

And the funny thing is, I can get into any group I want to, I build teams like crazy when I have the need to, but I don't do it just to be in a team, I do it for specific purposes.  You, on the other hand, sound like someone who can only feel liked if you've got a pile of people around you who are only using you for their own individual needs.  You are aware that's the way MMO grouping works, right?  Or aren't you that smart?

Of course they are there for there "own needs". but you can still have fun doing it. thats what this whole thread is about, the community. Like I said before you must not have play'd much more then WoW, because there are some great games out there with great communitys. Sure we are all leveling for us, sure we want to get great gear. But you can still be polite, hang out, have fun, chat it up, at the same time.

Maybe you arn't capable of that, I dunno....

 But community isn't just about sticking a bunch of people together who use each other to get things they want, that's not a community at all.  I've spent a lot of time sitting around buffing people for free, doing free tradeskilling and just talking to people, and it's a lot more fun than the kind of teaming you're talking about.  You might have fun like that, I don't and what I've been doing is a lot more condusive to a good community than taking 10 guys and running into a hole in the wall for loot.

But maybe you are just that shallow, I dunno...

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by BwanaKuu

Leveling twice as fast is a HUGE draw for grouping. 

It's not even twice as fast, I can gain maybe a level a day solo if I stick with it for 5-6 hours.  If I team, I can make 2-3 levels an hour, maybe more, depending on where we play.  But with all of that, a lot of people still choose to solo much of the time.

Imagine that.

Originally posted by x_rast_x 

OP wants to feel superior to everyone without doing anything to prove that he is, in fact, actually superior to everyone else.  My guess is this applies to his RL and well as MMOs.

How does killing things in a group make you superior to anyone else? Solo play can actually be much harder than group play, depending on your class and build. So why should group rewards be better than solo rewards?

The answer is simple: Group rewards take longer to achieve and therefore the developers make more money. Also, see my previous post.

Originally posted by Meleagar

After reading several players comment about how no  one would group in a game unless they were forced by goals or mechanics to do so, I realized the sad truth about modern MMOGs; they're largely programmed and populated by social misfits and outcasts whose only hope of being accepted or admired by a group is if grouping is forced on everyone.  In other words, the casuals - those with lives outside the game - are forced to group up with the internet game junkies and addicts if they want to achieve the higher rewards; in fact, the casuals have to become like those junkies and addicts if they ever want to see top game content.

Newsflash:  MMO's have reached mainstream people thanks to WoW.  Your old stereotype of MMO players being complete nerds no longer applies.  You are just as likely to be slaying mobs with an air force fighter pilot, a football player, or a cheerleader as you are a dork. Is this a good thing?  Not for me, because I prefer a more challenging and communal MMO.  That's my opinion though.

I know people from all different backgrounds who play MMO's now, and few of them are "social misfits".  The problem is that these games have been designed from the ground up to cater to the solo player who wants instant gratification that requires no more than 1 hour of gameplay to accomplish.  The games are designed to focus people on what level they are, and what stats are on their gear. They are also funneling people as fast as possible toward the end game.  If people can accomplish these levels without having to slow down to make a group, why wouldn't they?  Remember, they are in a race to get to level cap.

What you need to do is check out some of the indy MMO's coming down the line, and get away from the solo-focused mainstream games.

Originally posted by BwanaKuu

Originally posted by GreenChaos

Originally posted by Meleagar

After reading several players comment about how no  one would group in a game unless they were forced by goals or mechanics to do so......

 

This is an issue most people on this forum are very wrong about.  Most people in CoX group.  And no on is forced to by goals or mechanics. 

Unless you consider leveling about twice as fast a goals or mechanic.  

Leveling twice as fast is a HUGE draw for grouping. 

In SWG there were hubs where hundreds of players would get together just to form groups to go grind XP.  This was for a couple reasons. 1) The XP bonus was good.  2) The mobs were tough enough that you actually needed a group to take on a whole lair and safely travel the planets.  Chain pulls and all that sort of thing were common and deadly.  SWG also had stalking mobs that would jump members of the group during combat, and end up wiping the whole group.  It was a lot of fun.  The popular games out these days are filled with solo-friendly puss mobs.  Why would anyone bother to group when it's not all that useful or fun?

Again the problem is game design, and the pussification of gameplay.

Hypocritical

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by Lunicur

 If you want a solo game why are you playing an MMO?

Because there is nothing inherently team-based about MMOs?

There is also nothing saying it isn't a team based game, and so far the majority of MMO's are team based, so if anything we are more in the right with past MMO experience.

 Magical changing colors, we're making a rainbow. :)

The majority of MMOs allow you to choose your play style.  If you want to team, you can team.  If you want to solo, you can solo.  Therefore, the majority of MMOs are neither team based nor solo based, they are play-based.

Ok so your saying you have no problem with FFXI? (which as I mentioned before is thee most team based mmo out there?) You can CHOOSE to play on a team, or level by yourself. Just one takes longer.

 Have I ever said I had a problem with it?  I don't.  I have a problem with people who demand that nobody be allowed to play solo ever, if you can play solo and play team, where's the issue?

The argument you are trying to put forward is hypocritical. One one hand you are defending the argument that we need more balance with hardcore vs. casual. And then turn around and tell me the most team based/time sinked game (ffxi) is allright with you......how do you get off on that?

 

 

We all work hard for our rare items, our money, our rare mounts, and whatever else the MMO you're playing allows for.

Only insofar as they make playing the game easier.  I don't want that rare item because I can show off, I want it because it causes more damage in combat, has better protective value than what I was using or lets me get somewhere faster. 

But why do you want to cause more damage in combat? infact why are you fighting at all? well, probably to level....and to level faster, why do you want to level? to get better gear. people (everyone) likes flashy items, thats why in games they give away "pets, rare swords, cool mounts" and why in RL people get nice cars, big houses

 Because you're playing a game and in any game, as you progress, the enemies get harder and you need to improve your gear and your skills to be able to continue progressing.  That's the point of playing a game, *ANY* game.  Acting like hot shit because you've got a flashy sword is just a sign of immaturity.

Yes, people in RL do the same thing and they're just as immature as the people who do it in a game.  But at the end of the day, at least what they have is real.

So you've never got an extra mile in any MMO to get somthing that only had flashy value? An extra pet, maybe some event that gives you somthing......That bear mount in WoW?

I find that kinda hard to believe...but this being the internet i'm sure you'll lie.

 Can't say I have.  I'm entirely disinterested.  What I look like doesn't matter, in fact for most of my toons, whatever I happen to be wearing is what I look like.  If I have the option of a social tab, I usually keep it turned off.  I'm interested in substance, not flash and it doesn't make a bit of difference if you believe it or not.

Well honestly I find that hard to believe, but you are correct it doesn't matter what I think, and I dont' care what you think. But you are telling me that you go against human nature.

 

MMO communities are exactly like real life. Why do you think people strive to have the most expensive luxuries in RL? Humans are competitve and we crave power. We want to feel like we have some sort of worth, that's why these things are so popular.

Because people are stupid and shallow and equate having flashy things with being better people.  They're also wrong.

So now we are talking about the human race, and what drives people. lemme guess, you live in a trailer home, work at McDonals and drive a old clunker and are completly satisfied?......get real

 No, actually.  Married with two children, own my own business, own a big house with 10 acres.  What do you have?  Going to wave your pathetic little dick around some more?  But of course, I don't have anything to prove in an online game, I'm not here to feel better about myself RL, I don't have to.

It's pathetic that you do.

Why do you own a large house if you only have 2 kids? do you have more then 2 veicles? do you enjoy nice cloths? these are all things that drive people to do better, just the same in a MMO, "i'm going to play the extra 2 hours and do that little bit of research online to get this better gear because it looks cool and has good stats"

Truth is you did buy that bigger house, 3rd car, motorcycle...whatever, to feel better. to have more...

 Yeah, actually we have 3 cars, one of which never gets driven and we'll probably be getting rid of it.  Don't really care about flashy clothes, when I'm not at work, I'm all about t-shirts and jeans, I don't care what anyone thinks about how I look there either.  Obviously the situation changes at work where the expectation is suit and tie.

It's amazing how you can simply pull all that stuff out of your ass and think you have a clue what you're talking about.  I have a big house and a large plot of land because everyone who lives out where I do has one.    It's an upscale area where there's low crime, no graffiti, good schools and you don't have to worry about nosy neighbors peering through your windows because their houses are 6 feet away from yours.  My closest neighbor is a half-mile away.

The truth is, you don't have a goddamn clue.  Anyone surprised?

Lol well I live in Alaska, So I know about space, and I do live in a nice home....but none of this really has to do with anything....so, good for you?

 

Either stop b*tching or GTFO.

You're just proving the OP right, that the people who want all this stuff are the social outcasts, the screwed up people who want to strut around like peacocks because they hope it'll make people respect them.

In my other post about 2 post up I give a nice detailed post about how this is actually not true at all. you are grouping alot of people togeather to prove a point, so you do hate blacks because 65% of people in prisions are black? do you hate all muslims because so far every terrorist attack on the US has been by a muslim?

It's amazing that later on you accuse me of being racist when you're the only one who has ever brought up race.  Project much?

Lol you've brought up a c*ck twice already, eather you want to see mine, or you are projecting....

 Learn to spell.

Haha, poor boy can't come up with anything...

 

In other words, exactly the kind of people most of us don't want to play with.

So far we have decided that you are a hatefull, racist, non-human,...thing with a huge lack of achievment.

Sounds like no one wants to play with you.....(maybe thats why you like single player games?)

Wow, managed to get racist out of it?  How in the hell did you do that?

And the funny thing is, I can get into any group I want to, I build teams like crazy when I have the need to, but I don't do it just to be in a team, I do it for specific purposes.  You, on the other hand, sound like someone who can only feel liked if you've got a pile of people around you who are only using you for their own individual needs.  You are aware that's the way MMO grouping works, right?  Or aren't you that smart?

Of course they are there for there "own needs". but you can still have fun doing it. thats what this whole thread is about, the community. Like I said before you must not have play'd much more then WoW, because there are some great games out there with great communitys. Sure we are all leveling for us, sure we want to get great gear. But you can still be polite, hang out, have fun, chat it up, at the same time.

Maybe you arn't capable of that, I dunno....

 But community isn't just about sticking a bunch of people together who use each other to get things they want, that's not a community at all.  I've spent a lot of time sitting around buffing people for free, doing free tradeskilling and just talking to people, and it's a lot more fun than the kind of teaming you're talking about.  You might have fun like that, I don't and what I've been doing is a lot more condusive to a good community than taking 10 guys and running into a hole in the wall for loot.

But maybe you are just that shallow, I dunno...

I've PL'd people, healed and buffed. But how did you get to a high enough level to do that? By leveling Duhhh, and i'm sure in some of those games you joined groups to level, which means you where in it for yourself.

Get off your high horse there is nothing wrong with that. People play games for themselfs, sure they help others out but that isn't the main reson.

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone should be a winner!!!

Get real bro, nothing in life is like this, including games. More time invested = better rewards. Actually this is more true for games (aside from FPS and the like since they incorporate player skill) than for many things in life since individual talent doesn't really factor into the equation. So saying that you shouldn't have to play large numbers of hours to get the best stuff and content in the game is ridiculous. If everyone could finish everything in a short amount of time people would having nothing to do and would quit and the company would lose money.

I'm not even going to go into the other part of the topic which is that people who enjoy forced grouping or whatever you call it are social outcasts...here's a hint. When trying to make an argument, don't use broad generalizations as your main points.

Originally posted by raykor

Generalize much?

whats wrong with generalization? groups are characterized by majority.

I actually agree with the OP and it's the reason why I am seriously thinking about quitting MMOs alltogether. The amount of miscreants is out of hand, and I admit, the games have even affected my behavior a little bit. Online games really shouldn't be about feeling superior to others, they should be about enjoying social time with others, no matter how you are doing it in the game.

Originally posted by jusomdude

I actually agree with the OP and it's the reason why I am seriously thinking about quitting MMOs alltogether. The amount of miscreants is out of hand, and I admit, the games have even affected my behavior a little bit. Online games really shouldn't be about feeling superior to others, they should be about enjoying social time with others, no matter how you are doing it in the game.

And I read the OP's posts and think, how can someone come to such incorrect conclusions?

Back in the early days of DAOC, you pretty much had to group to effectively level, esp if you were a support class or healer.

Couple that with game mechanics that had down time, people camping mob spawns etc and I had some of th best times in online gaming.

Most all the players were cool, we pugged regularly with no fear, and you almost never left a group without getting to know the people better.  Overall the community was great, and people went out of their way to help others.

So today's games for the most part offer significantly more solo content than the early group centric games, are more accessible than ever, yet most will agree the communities are for sh!t.

So where really does the problem lie?

Like one early poster said...I thnk it lies with the OP and those like him.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by jusomdude

I actually agree with the OP and it's the reason why I am seriously thinking about quitting MMOs alltogether. The amount of miscreants is out of hand, and I admit, the games have even affected my behavior a little bit. Online games really shouldn't be about feeling superior to others, they should be about enjoying social time with others, no matter how you are doing it in the game.

 

And I read the OP's posts and think, how can someone come to such incorrect conclusions?

Back in the early days of DAOC, you pretty much had to group to effectively level, esp if you were a support class or healer.

Couple that with game mechanics that had down time, people camping mob spawns etc and I had some of th best times in online gaming.

Most all the players were cool, we pugged regularly with no fear, and you almost never left a group without getting to know the people better.  Overall the community was great, and people went out of their way to help others.

So today's games for the most part offer significantly more solo content than the early group centric games, are more accessible than ever, yet most will agree the communities are for sh!t.

So where really does the problem lie?

Like one early poster said...I thnk it lies with the OP and those like him.

 

I essentially started playing MMOs with DAoC and remember having some fun in it but I also remembering soloing a lot. By no means was it required to group. I do remember people being more courteous back then, but I can also remember the people that had no regard for others other than what others could provide for them.
 

I have no doubt current  MMO design, or even MMOs from the beginning breeds even greater "ME" mentality than real life. No, it doesn't effect everyone, but I can see how it could totally consume someone who doesn't have a sensible set of values in the first place.

Originally posted by Cristina1

Originally posted by raykor

Generalize much?

 

whats wrong with generalization? groups are characterized by majority.

Not only do you not know that the majority of x gamers who play with y playstyle are "socially inept", calling the whole group that when certaintly not all of them are, is ignorant. Generalizing is often times a good way to sound ignorant actually, if that's what you're into. Honeslty I can't believe you even said that, unless you were kidding, but it doesn't look like it.

Edit: As pertaining to the topic itself. The ultimate irony about this whole thing is the OP mentions modern MMOs being filled with the socially inept (or however he puts it) yet modern MMOs are the most solo-friendly MMOs to date...but he seems to think more solo options in MMOs would solve the problem? I mean, where's the logic in that? I'm sure this has been brought up already but I just felt the need to mention it.