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I doubt that Mythic will actively help with the design of SW:TOR. As a group I'm guessing they'll mostly play an advising role, definitely on the part of the MMO-aspect, an area that is completely new for BioWare. BioWare also stated long before this that they were very intrigued by the RvR systems of DaoC and WAR, so it wouldn't be a far fetched assumption to believe that Mythic will be providing insight on that aspect either. I believe the most active "help" Mythic will provide is not as the "group" Mythic, but BioWare pulling some of the best developers away from WAR to work on SW:TOR instead.
On the aspect of "experience". I think in the MMO-world it has shown that experience of making MMO's means absolutely nothing:
- Turbine: Creators of the extremely good Asheron's Call, but lost much of their reputation with AC 2 and Dungeons & Dragons Online. It's only with LOTRO that they managed to become once again a highly acclaimed company. - Mythic: Some call DaoC a "lucky shot" now, but even if that would be true, it's still a highly acclaimed game and succesful in it's day. They failed to live up to that reputation with Warhammer Online, where they didn't manage to deliver what was promised and the game is not nearly the succes they had hoped for. - Funcom: With Anarchy Online they started out.. terrible, but in time that game grew to become a succes and an inspiration for other MMO's. Much as Mythic's Warhammer, they failed to live up to the expectations for Age of Conan and didn't deliver what was promised. Both WAR and AOC seem to be recovering and on the right track again now, however. - SOE: This company has a long list of developed/published MMO's. With EverQuest I and II they have two extremely succesful MMO's, with definitely EQ I as one of the most important games in the history of the genre. Although the game has lost much of its former glory, they've got probably the best MMOFPS out there with PlanetSide. With Star Wars Galaxies they've appeared to have shattered their reputation for eternity for many people however. And Vanguard was so unsuccesful many people don't even know it exists. - NCSoft: Giant MMO developer and publisher. As Sony they've got a huge list of both very succesful and very unsuccesful games. Lineage I and II, Guild Wars, City of Heroes, etc belong to the first group, Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault to the second. - Blizzard: No experience with MMO's whatsoever, but managed to create not only the best-selling MMO in history, but having more subscribers than almost all other MMO's on the market together. I could go on. But I think that if you look at the history of the MMO-genre, you'll all come to the same conclusion that experience of developing in this genre means near to nothing. If anything you'd rather say that the companies with no experience produce the best games. All companies listed above have almost all gained their reputation and acclaim with the first MMO they developed, not the MMO's after that, even though they had more experience then. Heat, pressure and time. The three things that make a diamond, also make a waffle. |
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My logic baffles you?! I never said any of things you say I did. You also make predictions on my future mind set? I guess my logic baffles you because it is grounded in reality. Something you are clearly foriegn to given your further statements. Mythic did run out of money developing Warhammer Online. However, when EA bought Mythic EA gave then tens of millions to finish and dozens of programmers. So, Mythic had more than enough money and manpower, what they lacked however was skill. Mythic is clearly not the same company it was back in 2001 and that is clear considering the quality of Warhammer Online. Warhammer Online is a failure in every single aspect. From technical(graphics engine, servers, combat system) to aesthetic(art direction, lore) so there is absolutely no advice Mythic can give Bioware that would be beneficial. If you respond to this post Shannia please do not lie like you did last time and say I said things I never actually said. But I guess you cant make a counter argument unless you do resort to lies. |
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Shannia
Hard Core Member
Joined: 11/06/05
"World of WarCraft is held alive solely by the mediocrity of competing products." RendRegen |
Originally posted by Xiaoki
My statements were based on the last three lines you said. There was no lie. It's called inferring based on the what you stated as fact. If there is any liar in the thread, you need to look in the mirror. Where is your PROOF that Mythic will only poison BioWare. That line, and the two above it you are stated as fact. Where is your proof that Mythic is a one hit wonder? In reality, Ultima Online and WAR are successful, like DAOC. Are they WoW successful? No. Did they meet EA's expectations for WoW money? No. But you can't call WAR a failure. To date, WAR has the second most concurrent subscribers behind WoW. Unfortunately, Tubine refuses to list their concurrent subscriber numbers, so we don't know where DDO or LOTRO stand subscription wise against WAR. Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware "Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product." |
Im not knocking bioware as much as Im pissed that someone has the balls to act like Bioware is incredible and Mythic is terribad. Just wanted to clear that up in case anyone thinks I have something against bioware.. I dont. But dont fanboi hate on a solid company that couldnt do anything but help the success of SWTOR. |
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Originally posted by logangregor Make fun of a ''fanboi'', then turn around and say: ''(...)on a solid company that couldnt do anything but help the success of SWTOR.'' They obviously screwed up with WAR; anyone who has actually played can attest to the bullshit that is endgame. If they decide to implement a similar system in SW:TOR, shit they just screwed up.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17779800832&sid=1&pageNo=1 The OP just doesn't get it! |
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I think people are being a bit hysterical over this. It's not like bioware is going on a long vacation and giving the project to mythic to complete it. They simply have more people with different types of experience that they can pick and choose. I mean, in general, bioware games are considered pretty good right? then why would they then go with decisions that they knew would be horrible? It doesn't make any sense. In the end it's still their game. They are the people who are making the decisions. |
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I'm playing WAR now and having a great time, better than I ever did in WoW. I think people are overly harsh with WAR. And anyting new that isn't WoW. |
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Originally posted by Sovrath
Exactly. My God people act like Mythic is actually going to be making any game design decisions here. Does Mythic still even have a lead designer on the payroll? (I kid, I think..) This is really pretty simple. EA likes money. Warhammer cost a fortune and will be in the red for a long long time. EA wants what they know will be a huge cash cow done and on the shelves. This is no different than how will all function. When my company has a large job to complete we bring in the 10$ an hour grunts to start patching in cables and taking care of extra crap so the core of us can focus and get the job done. We don't let those guys start loading SBS boxes or let em loose on the Exchange servers. Now I'm not saying Mythic devs are grunts but they have plenty of assets that can be put to good use in getting ToR done that much more quickly. An artist is a friggin artist, modelers and skins, world mappers, testers. These are just some of the things that would help speed it all up. Besides after we all saw EA dress Barnett back up in his clown suit and start jumping around promoting ToR, this news really shouldn't be any surprise. For Gods sake the words are.. Lose - To cease to have. and Loose - To relax; to loosen; to make less strict. |
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Yeah cause Im sure they dont realize they screwed up with WAR. Im sure they want to implement that system in every game they touch. Im sure they want to rinse and repeat what they did in the last 3 years of their life.
It didnt occur to you that there is already a team making TOR? Again its the attitude, your attitude that I dont like one bit. |
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Just wanted to add that BioWare hasn't made a decent RPG since Baldur's Gate 2. Everything since has been all fluff, no substance, and catering to consoletards with the attention span of a fruit fly. Oh, but since Mass Effect has a sex scene, they're TEH GRATEST!!! Dragon Age looks pretty crappy, too. Any RPG relying on the edginess of Marilyn Manson for trailer music is just telegraphing the shallowness ahead of time. *waiting for the vitriol to fly* "You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous |
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Two words to describe DAOC's RVR intensity, three factions. |
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I will admit that I said to my girl friend and it was supposed to be sarcasm type humor...
"Bioware is going to let Mythic be involved in TOR... well EA just flushed $860+ Million..."
You know sometimes reality isn't important.. it was funny to me at least.
If you want to add in reality... Most of the people who worked at Mythic that designed anything you liked in DAoC.. left Mythic already (probably before WAR.. maybe years before).
I don't know many of the names on the BioWare team.. I do know what I have always been happy when "Tyrant" was involved in a project (Gordon Walton). If he mysteriously vanishes... then you'll know that crap is incoming.
/shrug
Being able to choose the skills you want to use, offers much less variety than pre-made class based systems. -Future Game Developer |
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Originally posted by Tiurinn The track record for these two companies changes alot if you examine where the games come from. For instance, Vanguard was not developed by SOE and was already a train wreck before SOE ever touched it. I'm not familiar enough with SOE's stable to really comment further for them. For NCSoft, its appropriate to break it down based on which games they merely published (as opposed to developed) and whether it was NCEast or NCWest that did the development. City or Heroes, Auto Assault, and Guild Wars were all developed by seperate companies with NCSoft doing the publishing. Tabula Rasa was developed by NCWest. NCEast's portfolio is Lineage, Lineage II, Aion, and the upcoming Blade & Soul. Ignoring Blade & Soul since it hasn't been released yet, these have *all* been major successes in their home markets and faired decently in the western market (Except Aion since it has yet to be released in NA). NCSoft's Korean studios certainly appear to know exactly what they need to do for producing solid, commericially viable titles. |
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All you people talking about ultima online do you even know what it is? mythic didn't have anything to do with ultima online till ea gave it to them saying, " We don't care what happeneds to this play with it if you want." . Bioware is not perfect, how would you describe mass effects combat? Never made mmo's , the story should be theres to command but don't think they cant use help dealing with the other parts of the mmo. However i don't want them trying to recapture rvr, from daoc, they need to come up with a new creative system i mean i see how they messed up war, keeps have no walls to destroy, siege stuff is static the area's are really bland, and feel like a counterstrike map. daoc was varies and don't seperate the zones as much. Between them bioware and mythic can come up with a better system. |
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Originally posted by jonrd463
2/10 because I'm feeling gracious |
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What if the game turns out fine? Will you come crawling back here and admit you're wrong? No, you'll make sure Bioware gets all the credit. Maybe Mythic can help improve some of the character models. While the animations were sub-par, WAR's character models were good. Most likely, they'll help with PvP, since next to nothing has been mentioned about it yet and this is classic RvR, Jedi vs. Sith. If you don't like it, you'll have a strong story/PvE game to play, unlike WAR, so if you can stop being negative for more than 2 seconds, maybe we'll get the best of both worlds.
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While I think Bioware is a top notch storytelling company. I have not been impressed w/ a single game engine they've produced or used. All of them have weak combat systems and run poorly on low end systems for the level of graphics they provide. However, they seem to recognize this, and they bought rights to use the Hero's Engine from Simutronics for SWtOR, which has been well received by everyone thats tested it. So I think they will end up having a very solid game on there hands. |
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You know those hypotheticals go both ways. If SW: TOR is not a huge success then people like you will flood these boards proclaiming "well, Mythic really had nothing to do with the game, it was all Bioware". Bioware has already said they are purposely keeping the graphics low end so it will run on a wide variety of computer. Something Mythic got very wrong with Warhammer Online. You want Mythic helping on the Jedi vs Sith PvP? Do you really 2 faction RvR again? One of the biggest complaints about Warhammer Online? Do you want Bioware to repeat every large mistake Mythic made? |
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