Yeah, it isn't a typo because I am basically wondering, with all the talk of forced PvP, why is never the issue of forced PvE brought up? I hate to fight moronic PvE mobs, and I am sure I am not alone, so why is it so seldomly discussed why so few MMORPGs do NOT force you to PvE?

Even so called FFA PvP games like Darkfall more or less require you to PvE (for loot and stuff) so isn't it about time than an MMORPG was created where PvE was purely optional and you could advance to the end game solely by PvP?

The only, notable, MMORPG I know of that comes close is WAR but even that game has alot of forced PvE in the form of raids and such if you want to get the best raids. Even the end-game in that game is about killing a mob.

haha, awesome man..... this thread is gonna get huge

I 100% want an MMO where PvE is optional. I'm lovin' WAR right now, but I think we need more games that allow you to advance through PvP.

Because it is counter-intuitive to what the PVP players say they want.

The vast majority of PVP players say they want to have skill deciding the outcome in PVP contests.  What sort of progression are you proposing that wouldn't make the character's or their gear more powerful?  Where's the carrot to keep players playing?

 You're right, there should be a pure PvP MMO available, along with many other types of MMO's.

But what you're probably gonna hear is that you'll 'force players to PvP', and that you ' only care about what you want'. Too bad. 

I was actually wondering the exact same thing about an hour ago, why not have just PvP games?

GTA online.  get xp and levels by cappin' they ass! (the enemy player gang).  Sure you can shoot dogs, kids, and mothers but they won't get you any xp.

Such a game would be hard to fit into a fantasy style MMO.  It's just be like WoW BG's with a lobby and a menu to distribute your skills and set up your equipment.

Not sure if that could even be classified as a MMO, but some people might like it.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

 You're right, there should be a pure PvP MMO available, along with many other types of MMO's.

But what you're probably gonna hear is that you'll 'force players to PvP', and that you ' only care about what you want'. Too bad. 

If it is a pure PvP game then saying that the game forces people to PvP would be the same as saying that Counterstrike forces people to shoot guns. 

That kind of game would not feel very much like an RPG to me but if there is an actual market for it then some developer might be willing to make it.  Heck Planetside and Guild Wars already did that.

Originally posted by heremypet

Such a game would be hard to fit into a fantasy style MMO.  It's just be like WoW BG's with a lobby and a menu to distribute your skills and set up your equipment.

Not sure if that could even be classified as a MMO, but some people might like it.

Or you could just go buy Guild Wars and call it a day.

Lol people do absolutely no research at all. You can create a max level toon and do nothing but PvP and still advance your character and get better equipment and skills just through PvP.

Sounds like the OP wants to play an FPS.

Because PVP does not belong in an MMO to begin with.

Any game that has charater development based in time in is not a good venue for PVP. The reason is that players with more time in beat those with less and the whole "skill" element disappears. The competition becomes stale and the game ulimately suffers.

Now if you cookie cutter characters and provide zero or limited game play effecting rewards it works. I loved BF2142 because ranks and unlocks helped but did not define my play experience. Can you do that in an MMO and still call it an MMO?

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

Sounds like the OP wants to play an FPS.

You don't level or gain new stuffs in an FPS to the extent you would in an MMO.

Best forum topic.  Wish I had thought of it.

Originally posted by heerobya

Originally posted by heremypet

Such a game would be hard to fit into a fantasy style MMO.  It's just be like WoW BG's with a lobby and a menu to distribute your skills and set up your equipment.

Not sure if that could even be classified as a MMO, but some people might like it.

 

Or you could just go buy Guild Wars and call it a day.

Lol people do absolutely no research at all. You can create a max level toon and do nothing but PvP and still advance your character and get better equipment and skills just through PvP.

 

Well there you go, and research my ass lol

Ive seen plenty of posts by the gankfest crowd complaining about how all the games are carebear and gankers have no games to play. In fact many of the carebear games offer pvp servers. What you are complaining about is that such games offer a choice and you want no choice, you want pvp only and its pretty well understood that games that offer both types of play bring more subs to the game.  Some like to pvp at times and pve at other times.

play EVE online. You never have to kill NPCs at all.

You can straight up from scratch, launch the game, finish tutorial, kill a noob, sell his wreck and repeat until you can start killing bigger players.

That's how most pirates do a living in EVE, they go in high sec, steal cargo, kill miners or combat pilots and etc

You Never Have To Kill and NPC in your Entire existence. I live exclusively on PVP kills. I sell the corpse to some maniac, sell the loots to alliance, keep the loot for replacements.

Originally posted by grimfall

Because it is counter-intuitive to what the PVP players say they want.

 

The vast majority of PVP players say they want to have skill deciding the outcome in PVP contests.  What sort of progression are you proposing that wouldn't make the character's or their gear more powerful?  Where's the carrot to keep players playing?

Status, reptutation, territory, story, all which bring the community together and cause players to actually care about the content more than item upgrades. Your proverbial carrot is nothing more than loot rewards in 90% of todays online games. And the communities have suffered for it, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Goragg

Because PVP does not belong in an MMO to begin with.

Any game that has charater development based in time in is not a good venue for PVP. The reason is that players with more time in beat those with less and the whole "skill" element disappears. The competition becomes stale and the game ulimately suffers.

Now if you cookie cutter characters and provide zero or limited game play effecting rewards it works. I loved BF2142 because ranks and unlocks helped but did not define my play experience. Can you do that in an MMO and still call it an MMO?

 

I agree with most of your post. I think PvP does belong in MMOs, but they have been doing it wrong since the beginning. World PvP can still exist as it is now with gear and level meaning more than your actual experience or skill, but I don't see why they couldn't make instanced PvP be more equal.  Let everyone have the best (or worst) gear and let them have at it. They could make it so you can unlock a few extras, like in TF2, but the extras don't actually make you more powerful, they just offer different options, because you give up something in order to gain anohter.

Originally posted by Ponico

play EVE online. You never have to kill NPCs at all.

 

You can straight up from scratch, launch the game, finish tutorial, kill a noob, sell his wreck and repeat until you can start killing bigger players.

That's how most pirates do a living in EVE, they go in high sec, steal cargo, kill miners or combat pilots and etc

 

You Never Have To Kill and NPC in your Entire existence. I live exclusively on PVP kills. I sell the corpse to some maniac, sell the loots to alliance, keep the loot for replacements.

lol, maybe by can baiting noobs in your rookie craft fitted with a civilian turret, and hoping they can't figure out how to warp out before you kill them, which would probably take 30 minutes with that weapon.  The amount of time it would take repeating that process to get a better ship would be staggering.   I think you might have to mine at least enough to get a standard tech1 turret and some ammo.

But technically your right, you can accomplish just about anything without killing a single NPC.

Originally posted by grimfall

Because it is counter-intuitive to what the PVP players say they want.

 

The vast majority of PVP players say they want to have skill deciding the outcome in PVP contests.  What sort of progression are you proposing that wouldn't make the character's or their gear more powerful?  Where's the carrot to keep players playing?

Where's the carrot?!!! Fuck the bloody carrot!! I dont want to play a game because there is a stupid carrot being dangled in front of me. I want to play a game because the game is fun and because there are real objectives to achieve that effect the other players in the game and change the gameworld itself. I want to play a game where I not only feel like my actions are contributing something but I KNOW that they are.

The same applies to progression. What so are you saying that the only form of progression in a computer game is to watch numbers on your character sheet tick up as you grind away on dumb computer controlled opponents or by clicking through moronic reams of text that people refer to as quests or story? Wake up!

Again there is a LOT more to progression than simply leveling up your character.....or at least there could be. Taking and holding areas of the gameworld for resources. Gaining control of installations and powerful weapons......that could then be lost to the opposing side if you arent careful. Actions of individuals and combined groups causing certain "events" to occur elsewhere on the map.

PwE not PvE. Player with Environement.....not Player versus Environment. For example a group of 10 player mages could congregate around a particular ancient shrine and perform specific actions to summon a horde of demons which they could then direct towards an enemy location on the map. It would be PvE except its not really as the computer controlled creatures are actually being guided by the players.

The possibilities are pretty much endless. We could have some awesome mmos if developers stopped focusing on making games where people had to read through a story like a single player game and fight against the computer all the time. Excuse me could someone help me complete this quest? Screw that retarded shit! Thousands of people in the same gameworld all ignoring each other as they grind their way through a single player game in multiplayer mode? What a waste of online potential.

Originally posted by Goragg

Because PVP does not belong in an MMO to begin with.

Any game that has charater development based in time in is not a good venue for PVP. The reason is that players with more time in beat those with less and the whole "skill" element disappears. The competition becomes stale and the game ulimately suffers.

Now if you cookie cutter characters and provide zero or limited game play effecting rewards it works. I loved BF2142 because ranks and unlocks helped but did not define my play experience. Can you do that in an MMO and still call it an MMO?

 

rofl!

it hasn't a damn thing to do with more time, it has to do with some people learn how to play and some never do

why do you think people zerg, because they can mindlessly smash their keys and win as long as their group is larger or better at button mashing. all skillless noobs

Originally posted by Goragg

Because PVP does not belong in an MMO to begin with.

Any game that has charater development based in time in is not a good venue for PVP. The reason is that players with more time in beat those with less and the whole "skill" element disappears. The competition becomes stale and the game ulimately suffers.

Now if you cookie cutter characters and provide zero or limited game play effecting rewards it works. I loved BF2142 because ranks and unlocks helped but did not define my play experience. Can you do that in an MMO and still call it an MMO?

What a load of crap! Players fighting against other players doesnt belong in an ONLINE roleplaying game? Where does it belong then? Offline roleplaying games lol. Online games are obviously the perfect (and ONLY) venue for PvP. You had better get used to it too because as developers are learning from their past mistakes more WELL DESIGNED mmos are on their way that incorporate PvP.

Players shouldnt be able to play against each other online.......ha ha ha! What a joke lol

Can you do that in an MMO and still call it a Massively Multiplayer Online game? Of course you bloody can. Why is that so difficult to contemplate. It might help if you stop focusing on all the failed attempts at incorporating PvP into the PURE PvE games (ie single player games in multiplayer mode) of the past. Yes they all sucked.....because they were never built for player vs player combat in the first place.......NOT because PvP doesnt work.

Just because you've only ever eaten mouldy apples doesnt mean apples taste bad.

Originally posted by Brif

I was actually wondering the exact same thing about an hour ago, why not have just PvP games?

There's a whole genre devoted to this, goes by the name of FPS, maybe you've heard of it.

Seriously you guys who want to do nothing more than PVP, why do you play mmorpg's?  The genre has never been about PVP.  A few games have managed to implement it well (UO and EVE come to mind) but by and large its poorly done because its an afterthought. 

If you want to beat on people 24/7, choose a genre/game that allows you to do so.  Also, everyone is equal in an FPS, so that mythical 'balance' that pvp'ers always cry about is already taken care of.

/thread

Originally posted by Yamota

 so isn't it about time than an MMORPG was created where PvE was purely optional and you could advance to the end game solely by PvP?

Hmm lets see...

Warhammer Online, possible to level to cap without killing a single NPC (via scenarios or even open rvr)

Eve Online, no need to kill NPCs

Entropia Universe, same as above.

And i'm sure there are others that i don't know.

Bah ha ha ha, you all kill me!    

Originally posted by veritas_X

Originally posted by Brif

I was actually wondering the exact same thing about an hour ago, why not have just PvP games?

 

There's a whole genre devoted to this, goes by the name of FPS, maybe you've heard of it.

Seriously you guys who want to do nothing more than PVP, why do you play mmorpg's?  The genre has never been about PVP.  A few games have managed to implement it well (UO and EVE come to mind) but by and large its poorly done because its an afterthought. 

If you want to beat on people 24/7, choose a genre/game that allows you to do so.  Also, everyone is equal in an FPS, so that mythical 'balance' that pvp'ers always cry about is already taken care of.

/thread

Such a shallow opinion you have here, maybe the argument could be reversed? If all you want to do is kill A.I. why not play nothing but single player games? If you don't want to fight another player, why play online games at all?

Oh, that's right because you want to socialize, well so do those who prefer PVP. You can't get the type of socialization in a fps  you can get in an MMORPG. The fighting aspects are just that, aspects. There's more to these games than killing anything be it a PC or NPC. There's economies, guilds, sometimes cities, others contested areas,exploring and just plain hanging out... You can't do any of that in an FPS frag fest.