Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

so don't play the game.

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

I like story.  And so does Pete.

Originally posted by BluePlayD-oh

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

 

I like story.  And so does Pete.

KOTOR was a great RPG because the story was really good, unliike many RPGs, AND hte story mattered, you ended up light side or dark side, and got a different outcome. Well, the same outcome but it felt different.

That's what TOR has the possiblity to do.

1. Make a good story for a change from most of the crappy MMORPGs storylines.

2. AND the story actually matters because your decisions send you in different directions.

Add some good RvR style PvP between Sith and Jedi, and that works for me.

 Take out story and you might as well no longer call it a RPG.

Wtf? Have people forgotten what RPGs are? Do really they just want the pewpewpew, one-shot kills and the reasonless grind for leveling and gear?

The problem in MMOs isn't the story, but how insignificant the story is made. You read a wall of text for a quest, to only find yourself never seeing anything related to that quest anymore after you do it. That kind of story sucks.

When a game wants us to quest to exterminate or reduce a monster X population from an area, I don't want to see anymore or not as many monster X after I complete the quest, otherwise what is the point?

When a game wants us to quest to kill an enemy leader, he's supposed to be dead, right? Not respawn seconds later, along with all his gang.

MMOs need to develop their dynamics - for now quests are just like a way to direct your leveling grind with the advantage you have something to entertain you for that specific quest. I want to do quests to help that village, to change the world. How do you do that without instancing? No idea, I'm not the technology expert, it's just something developers should improve to create a whole new degree of purpose to quests.

The story in LOTRO was awesome.  The instances really helped the immersion.

If you want no story with anime-style characters crapping all over themselves, try WoW.

Originally posted by fartking7

The story in LOTRO was awesome.  The instances really helped the immersion.

If you want no story with anime-style characters crapping all over themselves, try WoW.

there is certainly a story being told in WoW, just very few people actually care realize it.

in a nutshell, the 'invasion' of northrend by the horde and alliance, many quests, the 5 man dungeons...all lead to the reason why things are happening - an ancient god escaping its prison, which is the last boss of the current highest tier raid. now that this has been dealt with, the argent crusade has set up camp in icecrown, preparing for the eventual assault on icecrown citadel (which will be represented by the next few tiers of raids).  it is all happening for a story driven reason.

i agree that lotro did a great job of continuing the story basically from level one to max, with their book quest lines.

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with ME. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what I have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. I hate classes, I hate levels, I hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address my personal complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, I have been asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that because I believe that "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR have failed, that would send a message, but no. Alas I continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues I have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless to me.

Newsflash jackasses, I am not upset with lack of story, I am upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

 

Fixed. I think you forgot to check with all of us before you decided to speak for us.

LOL!

the fact its story driven and even what some think is a single player mmorpg is the main reason il be playing this game im so tired of the shitty ass mmorpgs where you start out do quests lvl get gear then pvp gg your done now lets do this for 3 years till the next mmo comes out so i can do the same thing again lol i would even pay to play this if it was offline only

I totaly agree !

Seems like the OP is more upset about the info. that' has came out about TOR than the game itself. I'm sure there will be a vanilla phase for TOR just like WoW had. All games have to start somewhere when you're level one.

I am interested more in the available classes and gameplay at this point than the storyline myself. Would be pretty cool though for Mandalorians and Sith to hook up with Bounty Hunters to take down <named Jedi Master> not just for loot, but for active story progression for all individual classes.
 

Every Bioware game, from Baldurs Gate, to Mass Effect has a very compelling story driven aspect.

If they ask you to go and kill 20 rats in the cellar it will be for a very valid reason like they are needed in a potion to save somebodies life or something like that.

Story is very important in every culture in the World so why would we want to cripple one of our most important parts of our psyche?

So to those who don't like story in the games I'm sure there are plenty of other things you can go grind on.

As many others have said, BioWare games always have engrossing and important stories. They will not change this just because they are making an MMO. They will use it to try something new.

If people are shallow enough that they are more interested in stats and numbers than they are story, then its their loss.

Bioware's story will be dust as soon as the spoiler sites start to share info..  People that like to PvP won't give a shit about story, but they will choose path on the spoiler sites so they can be awarded the "Uber Saber of Darkness".. lol   So much for story.. Wait....  Bioware wouldn't be so stupid to reward the Sith a Uber Saber and not give anything to the Jedi's...  So the Jedi's have a quest that give them the "Almighty Saber of Holyness".......  Wait.. I thought making choices means you choose different paths.. BUT in the end everything be the same, just with different names or colors.. So I guess it does matter which path you take, ya'll end up with the same crap.. just different graphics.. LOL

Originally posted by Rydeson

Bioware's story will be dust as soon as the spoiler sites start to share info..  People that like to PvP won't give a shit about story, but they will choose path on the spoiler sites so they can be awarded the "Uber Saber of Darkness".. lol   So much for story.. Wait....  Bioware wouldn't be so stupid to reward the Sith a Uber Saber and not give anything to the Jedi's...  So the Jedi's have a quest that give them the "Almighty Saber of Holyness".......  Wait.. I thought making choices means you choose different paths.. BUT in the end everything be the same, just with different names or colors.. So I guess it does matter which path you take, ya'll end up with the same crap.. just different graphics.. LOL

First and formost it is jedi, not jedi's with a s. So you don't care for TOR, we can see and read that. Why  come into a thread and rain on others parade.

Originally posted by musicmann

Originally posted by Rydeson

Bioware's story will be dust as soon as the spoiler sites start to share info..  People that like to PvP won't give a shit about story, but they will choose path on the spoiler sites so they can be awarded the "Uber Saber of Darkness".. lol   So much for story.. Wait....  Bioware wouldn't be so stupid to reward the Sith a Uber Saber and not give anything to the Jedi's...  So the Jedi's have a quest that give them the "Almighty Saber of Holyness".......  Wait.. I thought making choices means you choose different paths.. BUT in the end everything be the same, just with different names or colors.. So I guess it does matter which path you take, ya'll end up with the same crap.. just different graphics.. LOL

 

 

First and formost it is jedi, not jedi's with a s. So you don't care for TOR, we can see and read that. Why  come into a thread and rain on others parade.

Because I believe people should think for themselves and use their brain, instead of acting like sheep.. Currently Bioware is the Pied Piper, and most everyone here are the lil rodents following the music for unknown reasons..  Stop the hype..

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

I liked the part where you thought your complaints were universal.

"nobody gives a crap about story..."

I happen to care a lot about the story, as do many others.  Good job generalizing though; it really makes your opinion meaningful when you generalize.  Your rant tells us what *you* want in an MMO, but please don't speak for the rest of us.  I'm certainly capable of forming my own opinion about what I want from a game.  Classes, lots of content and a great story are elements that I look for.

Also, please don't bundle Bioware and Lucasarts into the same group as others ("bandwagoners").  Both of these companies have given us some amazing titles in the past.  I think a lot of people (notice I don't say "everyone") would agree that the X-Wing series and the original KOTOR were both pretty amazing.  Bioware has never done an MMO and they have a long history of releasing quality titles.  Give them a chance to do this and if they fail, then so be it, I'll move on.  I've been disappointed by the industry many times over the last few years, but I'm hoping that Bioware and Lucasarts will pick up the slack and provide me with a game I can play for more than a couple of months.

I care about the story being offered. Bioware has a proven track record on telling stories and I do not see this any different. It could fail but they are trying something different.

Originally posted by Netzoko

It blows my mind how out of touch developers are with the MMO base. With literally the biggest IP in the world, their focus is NOT what gamers have hated about mmos for years. No no, they will contiune to shovel the bullshit, but will now have STORY!

Are you kidding me? The level of absurdity is making my brain swell. People hate classes, they hate levels, they hate watered-down gameplay and grind. Does BioWare plan on address these -universal- complaints? Fuck no, to them the problem with MMOs is story? My mind is utterly blown. From forum to forum across the internet, followers are asking the same basic questions. Whats pvp like? Whats pve like? How are the classes? What is the item system like? Yet over and over, every single dev blog and release is about story. I just can't wrap my head around the unsurpassable amount of ignorance by the dev teams. You would think that seeing the failings of supposed "blockbuster" MMOs like Aoc and WAR would send a message, but no. Alas we continue to be insulted by developers who ignore the -KEY- issues people have with the genre, and instead focus on something utterly worthless.

Newsflash jackasses, your customers arn't upset with lack of story, they are upset with the cookie cutter MMO template that money grubing bandwagoners like you continue to reiterate and expect to sell.

You know when i read your tittle i was preparing my self to flame but you but after readding your post.

Your right... your so fucking right and yes its mindbogling how ignorent Dev teams are.

Then again Story is not a bad idea but get rid of the classes please.

So WoW lets you "make your own story", huh. Sweet illusion, you either get more powerful or you don't. That's your "story" in a nutshell. The rails are there, you just refuse to see them. I would add, in WoW's style story, you're worthless, you don't even have a minimal impact on the next demonic invasion in your planet or anything. You could have not existed, and the world would still be the same, after all the only things that matter are what purple named items you wear.

The only games that truly allow you to make your own story are sandbox MMOs, and there's a clear niche for them, few games have open ended aspects as features nowadays though.

... and whoever thinks TOR should be a sandbox a la SWG needs to get real.

BioWare's track record points to the opposite direction, very claustrophobic games (emphasis on KotoR), not that many choices, yet leaving you the option to control how the story will be, more or less.

They can try to mimic Galaxies, but chances are high it would be a big failure... Lack of open world experience, not to mention lack of a sandboxy MMO experience... They're better sticking with their strengths as developers, if the game is really different than the majority out there currently as I heard from them, I say it might be very fun. Not to mention that's exactly what people are expecting, variation in the currently-stagnant MMORPG gameplay.

I love Star Wars.

I loved SWG, then I hated it. Then I hated it even more when they tried to make it a pseudo FPS with out-of-the box Jedis. I hated how nothing about it fit into the timeline they were pushing.

I loved KoTOR. KoTOR came to an end.

I don't want another MMO that plays like WoW, EQ, FFXI, or anything like it. 

If I play the hell out of, say, a Bounty Hunter and get to the "End" of the game, so be it. I just hope that it will be a sweet ride. If it is then I will try another class.

I would rather they make a shorter MMO "Story" as long as it is a high quality one. I would rather they make the small quests and dicking around fun than having the most elite shit.

I believe in good things coming to an end. And by end, I mean end... not just being level 75 and doing another raid of some "challenging" dungeon... or fighting "the gods" again and again.

So what if it ends? Save a bit of cash by pausing your account until new content comes out, or start again with a different character.

Plain and simple.

They think they're making a brilliant commerical decision; Make a game just like WoW, down to the simplistic carrot-stick gameplay and graphics engine that will run on a crappy old budget PC, but try to keep them more interested in the grind by feeding them a story that changes a bit on each alt.

Oh, those sly sales executives, aren't they clever. They'll have the masses of casual retards eating out of their hand and paying for the pleasure.

Bioware probably had a lot of better ideas about what direction the game should go in, but the only point they were able to sell to the money holders was the idea of expanding on the story - Everything else would have conflicted with what they see as the winning WoW game model.

Originally posted by Trenchgun

They think they're making a brilliant commerical decision; Make a game just like WoW, down to the simplistic carrot-stick gameplay and graphics engine that will run on a crappy old budget PC, but try to keep them more interested in the grind by feeding them a story that changes a bit on each alt.

Oh, those sly sales executives, aren't they clever. They'll have the masses of casual retards eating out of their hand and paying for the pleasure.

Bioware probably had a lot of better ideas about what direction the game should go in, but the only point they were able to sell to the money holders was the idea of expanding on the story - Everything else would have conflicted with what they see as the winning WoW game model.

That actually sounds like a fun game the way you describe it.

Story rules, it helps you become more immersed in the world and it makes the world less like a generic space opera and more like Star Wars.

KOTOR was an awesome game and it was heavily based on story and this game is based of KOTOR, I just hope they add enough story and less of the 'kill x rats' crap you see in other MMOS.

I love Story!

I love lvls!

I love classes!

I love select and "click"!

And I'm sure MANY other people love it aswell. Thats the way I learned to play RPG and that was the diferent experience I felt wich made me "fall in love" and  thats how I intend to keep doing so. Till some day someone else make an original and diferent and still fun way to do it.

You FPS lovers, dont come to this genre and expect a FPS mechanic or you are clearly out of your mind.

All FPS-RPG types or whatever you wanna call them arent either good at one thing or the other. Just like hybrids.

Thanks.