Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

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Originally posted by Ozmodan

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Originally posted by Dana

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Originally posted by RZetlin

 

Dana and gamers are missing the larger picture why F2P is on the raise.
The economy is in a recession.
The same people that played P2P a few years ago are out of a job now.
Unemployed gamers cannot spend $15/month anymore.
F2P MMORPGs are the most economic way to play games these days.
 

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F2P has been doing better than subscription MMOs since 2005. The economy has only been in the toilet for a year.

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Sorry Dana, but that is flat out nonsense, at best f2p have been doing better for the last couple years.  You have a short memory

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Theres been like 5 pay to play MMOs that have launched since 2004 that were able to hold 200,000 subscribers.
Before you calling other people statements nonsense perhaps you should do a little research.

 

Also, I would like to say that I am not suprised that so many in this topic completely missed the message from the article wtiter. The article simply states that newer MMOs keep chasing after better and better graphics while the player base stays the same.
A good graphics engine and good art director will do so much more for you than cutting edge graphics.

I am however surprised that no one has mentioned Aion. It runs incredibly well on a wide variety of machines and looks great.

As usual poster can't support his argument for a hill of beans.  Please educate us with f2p MMO's that have held a large audience since 2004?  Prior to the past two years you can't name one.  Oh I am sure some were out there, but you can't name them because no one knew about them.

lol you didnt search a lot
 

i can name at least 1  silkroad online it was full ,is full and will be full for years to come

dont believe me download it and try to login for fun and dont come with the generally believed but false idea

`oh but that game is full of bot `

thats like saying to wow their server arent full because they dont have bot lol

silkroad online add server still .when was the last time blizzard added server ?very long  time ago

silkroad would need an insane amount of server just to keep up with the player waiting to logon

a bunch of reason made this game bigger then even they ever thot

when they released  one expension ,they linked asia with europe in game like you can start from europe and go to china etc

that made a huge impact .plus all the other adds they put in ,not long ago there was another added

i never saw an mmo since 2004 that is popular as silkroad online

and thats a f2p game

its very popular for another reason also

the computer needed to play it is so ridiculous you can play this on a netbook lol

graphic quality is debatable

but i can give you at least 1 exemple

why is it that everquest 2 was a so big ressource hog

hell we ll go to newer game

rappelz i remember playing this game was looking nice but had big lag issue

what they do they lower setting on game that wasnt design as a low setting

result it look so ugly most game can beat the look

its a package you cannot lower graphic quality after the game is made it wasnt design for it

its like if guild wars had been designed on a i7 quad core processor then try to make it run on a an old 3 years old laptop

it just cant be done

guild wars team went another way

they used laptop to design and test guild wars result the smooth  and stable game we got

hell if i was boss of a game producing company

i would design and produce game on netbook

why ? lol did you see how many of those computer were sold

its insane

but trying to design a game on a quad core then proting it to a netbook

is a sure way to fail

it as to be designed and tried on the computer market you target lol not mod the game after you find you cant lower setting

the markiet right now is from netbook to the biggest laptop without sli

but often they try to support quad graphic card etc why try very few baught those lol

most just cant afford those ,go ask the exgm employe if hes gona buy a 1000 $ computer

hell hes like everybody in the world he cant afford it

its so bad most just cant afford just to repair the one they got imagine

 Vanguard:SoH does NOT support multiple cores, including SLI'd GPUs, so only ONE of that "Quad Core's" processor cores was actually in use, as well as only ONE of the video cards.  Furthermore, Vanguard is a 32bit program, and thus utilizes an extremely limited amoutn of RAM.  I don't remember the exact number, but I can tell you that it's <4gb.
Using a quad-core CPU for a single-core game is terribly inefficient.
So, in effect, the person wasted a great dela of money if all he/she used the comp *intensively* for was Vanguard:SoH.

You can run Vanguard flawlessly, at max settings, on a $600 build.  

EDIT: Meant to quote EBlackblade.

Ive been doing Tech work for friends and family even friends of family for a long time. Since i was kid.

And youd be surprised how wrong sterotypes are in my area.

Most the time the Wife will play on the computer more than the husband (husbands usualy play on there console).

Now these games arnt mmos just puzzle or mystery games.

Most people either buy a old computer off there friend or buy the cheepest one at walmart.

Ive never seen a Non tech person with a average job with a high end comp.

Every person that has me look at a game cause it doesnt work its usualy sys req.    And they never upgrade for the game. A few have asked about it but when I told them the price of a stick of ram.  They said no and gave the game away.

The article is a good article.   The only bad thing is  he shoulda pointed out how every Blizzard  game  has never pushed the graphics and has always done good.   And thats blizz speciality makeing there games available to the common consumer both hardware wise and complexity. 

Me personaly im tired of how much it cost to be a computer gamer.   Ive tried many times to go console but fps and mmos are my games so im stuck with pc.

Originally posted by RZetlin

F2P MMORPGs are the most economic way to play games these days.

And one of the things a lot of people find out is that the F2P MMOs hold their interest just as well as their old P2P game.

I know I'l be thinking twice about paying a monthly fee for a game again.

Unfortunately it's people like the OP who keep reminding us why company's can't put out a decent game since wow. They simply FAIL at developing innovative game mechanics that WORK..

You think people are playing WOW because it's the only thing their PC can run? When you can pickup a PC that runs AOC,WAR for less then $500? If that's what you think then all I can say is........ WOW.  Consumer's will ALWAYS buy better hardware if they reach a limit with their software/games... It's a proven FACT. The issue is your not convincing them they NEED a upgrade. What makes people buy a Xbox 360 over a Xbox? Can we say.... HALO? Another perfect example was failcom. Most people were on the fence about upgrading until they discovered they produced a turd in a box. Even then 700k players whole heartly bought the game and upgraded their machines for a huge dissapointment.

Originally posted by Dana

And I don’t want to hear “but our graphics scale!” That’s not a valid counter argument. No one has ever successfully made a game that scales visually.

FFXI made their game scale and cross-platform years and years ahead of it's time. So thanks once again for proving you really know nothing about the industry you write columns on. Also Log on to LOTRO instead of writting fail columns and you can see that game also scales DX9--->DX10 Flawlessly and with good performance unlike WAR, AOC.

Don't bother quoting or responding because you've pretty much lost any credibility at posting a valid argument. I understand everyone has their own opinion but this was so far off in left field I had to post.

This is simply put one great article. I don't care aboutr graphics (it's good to have good one) but gameplay is that why I buy games. And about box selling, aslo true.

Originally posted by Khaunshar

What matters is using an engine, using tech that is suited to the demands of a MMORPG. You dont have to have it run on a calculator to be successful, there are millions of players out there whose rigs are not hamster-wheel-powered with wooden dial-up and a broken bathroom mirror as screen. What you need is to do what Guild Wars did, what Aion did, create a game engine that isnt a rip-off of a singleplayer shooter, but that works for 60 people on screen.

I could be mistaken, but isn't Aion for instance powered by the crytek cryengine? I think most (if not all) use allready build game engines and then modify it instead of building their own game engine. I think I once heard Age of conan was build on the same engine they used for Anarchy Online which was fully developed by their own company I think, but I'm not sure if that's usual (and I'm not even sure if its true)

Originally posted by sairusco

Originally posted by Khaunshar

What matters is using an engine, using tech that is suited to the demands of a MMORPG. You dont have to have it run on a calculator to be successful, there are millions of players out there whose rigs are not hamster-wheel-powered with wooden dial-up and a broken bathroom mirror as screen. What you need is to do what Guild Wars did, what Aion did, create a game engine that isnt a rip-off of a singleplayer shooter, but that works for 60 people on screen.

 

I could be mistaken, but isn't Aion for instance powered by the crytek cryengine? I think most (if not all) use allready build game engines and then modify it instead of building their own game engine. I think I once heard Age of conan was build on the same engine they used for Anarchy Online which was fully developed by their own company I think, but I'm not sure if that's usual (and I'm not even sure if its true)

Yes, the "Dreamworld" engine is the original engine created for Anarchy Online and then updated for Age of Conan. And once upon a time, it was usual for mmo developers to write their own game engines. Now it's all about the rush to get the game out so they go with whatever the flavor of the year engine is.
 

On the front you mentioned - Decent work sells. A game that lags on every machine at date, unless one disables everyone else's spell effects, and even then it lags on most machines if one happens to zoom in on his/her own spell effect, is not a decent piece of work. A game that's isometric has a grand total of 3 classes and a ... [drumbeat] ... pet system isn't a decent piece work either.

The difference is somewere else. I've seen a plenty of people who won't buy a game if they don't like screens. I've yet to see a person who has a weak PC and has nothing more to do than play an accesible junk. I've also yet to see a game that while having it's settings toned down for a 2-years-old-pc looks at least as good as 2-years old game, so yes stop making mamoths already (A slogan if you wish - Mamoth! eats all it can, and still looks ugly...). But like I said, that's not where the magic of f2p hails from. IMHO F2P are prospering on a different field. Successfull game can appear as a result of these things(one or both):

1. Hard and thoughtfull work

2. Brilliant idea.

1st is what sells games for blizzard aside from their logo on a box

2nd is what made atlantica so popular

there's also marketing, but a succesfull game and a game that sold are not the same things in my book, besides we're talking MMO here, one won't get a 3rd month of subcsription on hype.

Back to our biusness models:

Who makes P2P? - Big companies.

What's the worst nightmare of an avarage reach person? - To loose one's money.

What's the worst thing about a brave idea? - It can backfire.

See where this is going? - I'd bet that not quite yet.

At this point one might be thinking "Don't tell me big companies aren't trying new ideas". Well, I won't! What I will tell however, is that they barely ever succed with them. Why? Well, that's a trademark of all brilliand ideas! A success rate as low as that of korean encahnment stone! And the more of them that have been succesfully used...

Why are big companies called big? - They're bigger than most.

What does that mean? - Big companies and most companies are differen't things.

What's the boon of a begar? (religions aside) - He has nothing to lose.

Now see where this is going? - I think you do.

On p2p side we got a handfull of companies all afraid to experiment (and I don't blame them for it). On f2p side we have a mob of idea-driven people trying all kind of crazy ideas. Guess who has the second factor on their side? P2P or F2P games?

Add here the useage of 1st factor, that's starting to appear among the idea-driven crowd, and we can finally grasp the secret of f2p.

By the way anyone noticed an even bigger ammount of failed f2p games? I know I did. But once again, all that is only valid as long as we don't coun't just any game that returned it's investmen't among succesfull.

Here goes ...[drumbeat]... the ink blob!

Gee, those do like spoiling pictures... Those ton of f2p games I mentioned do return their investment, while being far worse than most of "epic fail" (TM) p2p games. ["epic fail" and all succesive trolling and whining are trademarks of mmo forums and as such are restriced from use inside a civilised society]

Why do they return invesment? Accesibilty I guess... In a differen't way though. My theory is this:

1. There are people who have time to waste.

2. There are people who have money to waste and don't like to actually play games.

3. There are people who want some money and can code an isometric engine.

These 3 groups are the backbone of f2p mmos.

3rd groups codes a game, 2nd groups pays their bills (and, by a greater scale, are wasting their time too), and 1st group spends every new week in a new f2p mmo and thus provides 2nd group with new people to hang-out with, so that they keep hanging-out and paying bills.

You call this a buisness model? I call this a herald of doom... Let's hope all his doom-preatching will not fool a potential game developer.

Nevertheless, 1st don't have to pay money, 2nd don't have to bother with gameplay and 3rd don't have to overheat their heads by thinking for more than 15 mintures strait. Accesibilty for everyone!

As a closing line - let's hope there are still people who care for the picture before the inkblob, and they aren't just all "posting on forums".

Originally posted by Tingtong1

Unfortunately it's people like the OP who keep reminding us why company's can't put out a decent game since wow. They simply FAIL at developing innovative game mechanics that WORK..

 

You think people are playing WOW because it's the only thing their PC can run? When you can pickup a PC that runs AOC,WAR for less then $500? If that's what you think then all I can say is........ WOW.  Consumer's will ALWAYS buy better hardware if they reach a limit with their software/games... It's a proven FACT. The issue is your not convincing them they NEED a upgrade. What makes people buy a Xbox 360 over a Xbox? Can we say.... HALO? Another perfect example was failcom. Most people were on the fence about upgrading until they discovered they produced a turd in a box. Even then 700k players whole heartly bought the game and upgraded their machines for a huge dissapointment.

 

 

Originally posted by Dana

And I don’t want to hear “but our graphics scale!” That’s not a valid counter argument. No one has ever successfully made a game that scales visually.

 

FFXI made their game scale and cross-platform years and years ahead of it's time. So thanks once again for proving you really know nothing about the industry you write columns on. Also Log on to LOTRO instead of writting fail columns and you can see that game also scales DX9--->DX10 Flawlessly and with good performance unlike WAR, AOC.

 

Don't bother quoting or responding because you've pretty much lost any credibility at posting a valid argument. I understand everyone has their own opinion but this was so far off in left field I had to post.

Its obvious you don't get the point.  Lets examine some of your fallacies shall we?  First, I see you are still bowing down to the shrine of the <Great God> INNOVATION... ^^ Ah, you did say "that work"... But do you have any conception of how many games have failed to get funded because they "break new ground in innovative game mechanics"? There are so many clones of successful games for a reason. You don't risk tens of millions of dollars of *other peoples money* on the *chance* that your Innovation will not only work, but will be considered *fun* by a LOT of other people. If you want to see a room full of investors go all starry eyed, and start throwing truck loads of money at you, intone the mystic phrase "Its just like World of Warcraft"...

Next, consoles are *NOT* PC's in the minds of the general population.  You are expecting WAY too much from such types. Yes, I know its quite simple to not only upgrade PC's, but to build the things, but thats from a totally different perspective than the typical game consumer.  Anyone who has had to deal with tech support for even simple PC hardware "issues" can tell you horror stories about ignorance/idiocy that would cause you to go screaming to the east. Buying a new game console is different from upgrading a PC. Which is one reason that so damn many people are still using PC relics to this very day. Yes, if a console game is good enough, many people WILL buy a new *console*. There are many fewer people who will buy a new PC, or even upgrade one.

Its interesting that you mention FFXI. Have you examined their subscription numbers? They are a niche game that appeals to a certain limited demographic *within the established gaming population*.  LOTR(even with a massive number of people interested in Tolkien's works) has still demonstrated that they appeal to only to a certain limited demographic.  WoW is the first Western game to demonstrate the ability to pull in millions and millions(coming up on 12) of gamers across the spectrum. Not only that, but they have pulled in people who are outside of the typical gaming population.  Just ONE of the reasons is because WoW will run on the relics that the typical consumer has available. Its also a good game, all the way to level cap for another.

You seriously should have left your last paragraph out.  Its an all too typical mentality these days. "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind has already been made up..." You did more to undermine your own credibility than anyone else could have managed with that.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Tingtong1

Unfortunately it's people like the OP who keep reminding us why company's can't put out a decent game since wow. They simply FAIL at developing innovative game mechanics that WORK..

 

You think people are playing WOW because it's the only thing their PC can run? When you can pickup a PC that runs AOC,WAR for less then $500? If that's what you think then all I can say is........ WOW.  Consumer's will ALWAYS buy better hardware if they reach a limit with their software/games... It's a proven FACT. The issue is your not convincing them they NEED a upgrade. What makes people buy a Xbox 360 over a Xbox? Can we say.... HALO? Another perfect example was failcom. Most people were on the fence about upgrading until they discovered they produced a turd in a box. Even then 700k players whole heartly bought the game and upgraded their machines for a huge dissapointment.

 

 

Originally posted by Dana

And I don’t want to hear “but our graphics scale!” That’s not a valid counter argument. No one has ever successfully made a game that scales visually.

 

FFXI made their game scale and cross-platform years and years ahead of it's time. So thanks once again for proving you really know nothing about the industry you write columns on. Also Log on to LOTRO instead of writting fail columns and you can see that game also scales DX9--->DX10 Flawlessly and with good performance unlike WAR, AOC.

 

Don't bother quoting or responding because you've pretty much lost any credibility at posting a valid argument. I understand everyone has their own opinion but this was so far off in left field I had to post.

 

Its obvious you don't get the point.  Lets examine some of your fallacies shall we?  First, I see you are still bowing down to the shrine of the <Great God> INNOVATION... ^^ Ah, you did say "that work"... But do you have any conception of how many games have failed to get funded because they "break new ground in innovative game mechanics"? There are so many clones of successful games for a reason. You don't risk tens of millions of dollars of *other peoples money* on the *chance* that your Innovation will not only work, but will be considered *fun* by a LOT of other people. If you want to see a room full of investors go all starry eyed, and start throwing truck loads of money at you, intone the mystic phrase "Its just like World of Warcraft"...

Next, consoles are *NOT* PC's in the minds of the general population.  You are expecting WAY too much from such types. Yes, I know its quite simple to not only upgrade PC's, but to build the things, but thats from a totally different perspective than the typical game consumer.  Anyone who has had to deal with tech support for even simple PC hardware "issues" can tell you horror stories about ignorance/idiocy that would cause you to go screaming to the east. Buying a new game console is different from upgrading a PC. Which is one reason that so damn many people are still using PC relics to this very day. Yes, if a console game is good enough, many people WILL buy a new *console*. There are many fewer people who will buy a new PC, or even upgrade one.

Its interesting that you mention FFXI. Have you examined their subscription numbers? They are a niche game that appeals to a certain limited demographic *within the established gaming population*.  LOTR(even with a massive number of people interested in Tolkien's works) has still demonstrated that they appeal to only to a certain limited demographic.  WoW is the first Western game to demonstrate the ability to pull in millions and millions(coming up on 12) of gamers across the spectrum. Not only that, but they have pulled in people who are outside of the typical gaming population.  Just ONE of the reasons is because WoW will run on the relics that the typical consumer has available. Its also a good game, all the way to level cap for another.

You seriously should have left your last paragraph out.  Its an all too typical mentality these days. "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind has already been made up..." You did more to undermine your own credibility than anyone else could have managed with that.

i ll pull the handbrake on wow total number of player

why?they got big issue in asian market ,for now they dont have acces to that market

and i would say 50% of their player come from there so if they dont find a solution soon

they ll loose those player for good

if that bad deal with china had not happened they would probably have broke the 13 million player barrier by end of the year but now they lost a huge number of player because they cant service those player till they find a way to make the game accesable to asian witch im sorry to say isnt gona be easy with china new porn  war .it looks like blizzard wont be able to supply wow to asian for a very long time unless a blizzard rep fly to asia to resolve the issue

(lol like that will ever happens)

Originally posted by drbaltazar

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Tingtong1

Unfortunately it's people like the OP who keep reminding us why company's can't put out a decent game since wow. They simply FAIL at developing innovative game mechanics that WORK..

 

You think people are playing WOW because it's the only thing their PC can run? When you can pickup a PC that runs AOC,WAR for less then $500? If that's what you think then all I can say is........ WOW.  Consumer's will ALWAYS buy better hardware if they reach a limit with their software/games... It's a proven FACT. The issue is your not convincing them they NEED a upgrade. What makes people buy a Xbox 360 over a Xbox? Can we say.... HALO? Another perfect example was failcom. Most people were on the fence about upgrading until they discovered they produced a turd in a box. Even then 700k players whole heartly bought the game and upgraded their machines for a huge dissapointment.

 

 

Originally posted by Dana

And I don’t want to hear “but our graphics scale!” That’s not a valid counter argument. No one has ever successfully made a game that scales visually.

 

FFXI made their game scale and cross-platform years and years ahead of it's time. So thanks once again for proving you really know nothing about the industry you write columns on. Also Log on to LOTRO instead of writting fail columns and you can see that game also scales DX9--->DX10 Flawlessly and with good performance unlike WAR, AOC.

 

Don't bother quoting or responding because you've pretty much lost any credibility at posting a valid argument. I understand everyone has their own opinion but this was so far off in left field I had to post.

 

Its obvious you don't get the point.  Lets examine some of your fallacies shall we?  First, I see you are still bowing down to the shrine of the <Great God> INNOVATION... ^^ Ah, you did say "that work"... But do you have any conception of how many games have failed to get funded because they "break new ground in innovative game mechanics"? There are so many clones of successful games for a reason. You don't risk tens of millions of dollars of *other peoples money* on the *chance* that your Innovation will not only work, but will be considered *fun* by a LOT of other people. If you want to see a room full of investors go all starry eyed, and start throwing truck loads of money at you, intone the mystic phrase "Its just like World of Warcraft"...

Next, consoles are *NOT* PC's in the minds of the general population.  You are expecting WAY too much from such types. Yes, I know its quite simple to not only upgrade PC's, but to build the things, but thats from a totally different perspective than the typical game consumer.  Anyone who has had to deal with tech support for even simple PC hardware "issues" can tell you horror stories about ignorance/idiocy that would cause you to go screaming to the east. Buying a new game console is different from upgrading a PC. Which is one reason that so damn many people are still using PC relics to this very day. Yes, if a console game is good enough, many people WILL buy a new *console*. There are many fewer people who will buy a new PC, or even upgrade one.

Its interesting that you mention FFXI. Have you examined their subscription numbers? They are a niche game that appeals to a certain limited demographic *within the established gaming population*.  LOTR(even with a massive number of people interested in Tolkien's works) has still demonstrated that they appeal to only to a certain limited demographic.  WoW is the first Western game to demonstrate the ability to pull in millions and millions(coming up on 12) of gamers across the spectrum. Not only that, but they have pulled in people who are outside of the typical gaming population.  Just ONE of the reasons is because WoW will run on the relics that the typical consumer has available. Its also a good game, all the way to level cap for another.

You seriously should have left your last paragraph out.  Its an all too typical mentality these days. "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind has already been made up..." You did more to undermine your own credibility than anyone else could have managed with that.

 

i ll pull the handbrake on wow total number of player

why?they got big issue in asian market ,for now they dont have acces to that market

and i would say 50% of their player come from there so if they dont find a solution soon

they ll loose those player for good

if that bad deal with china had not happened they would probably have broke the 13 million player barrier by end of the year but now they lost a huge number of player because they cant service those player till they find a way to make the game accesable to asian witch im sorry to say isnt gona be easy with china new porn  war .it looks like blizzard wont be able to supply wow to asian for a very long time unless a blizzard rep fly to asia to resolve the issue

(lol like that will ever happens)

I'm familiar with their "issues" with The9. But China is just part of Asia. Japan, Korea and the other countries have to be considered. I seriously doubt that half of WoW's subscribers are from China.  Hell, once one gets out of China's Eastern Coastal areas, the vast majority of its people live in conditions much like the middle ages. What Blizzard needs to do is hire a good "lobby" firm over there, that can "represent" them to the local power structure. Corruption being a way of life over there(much as it is in any large power structure)  they need people familiar with how the local system works. Check out World of Fight if you want a good laugh.

You are right to a certain degree, but while WoW once had very, very easy to run graphics, but the things in Northrend are not so much. I knew several people that had to purchase new computers, and the ones they were using were good three or four years ago. Yes, you can run the game, but not on decent settings, and not in the major city.

That is something that Blizzard has done very mistakenly. In attempts to make things simpler and easier to access, they thrown everyone on a server into the same city, and you can easily have hundreds there at once. That will slow down anyone's computer. Blizzard's genius is failing these days.

On a slightly different note, I think more games should add a feature I have recently noted in Aion. There is a toggle that can hide all other players. I like this. I have noted a tendency in players of many MMOs to stand on top of vendors/quest givers/anyone important in an attempt to annoy people or otherwise cause problems. This would prevent that entirely.

The article has some good points, but i think it trivializes the importantance of making a game with enough enjoyable and varied content to keep people wanting to play. One thing wow did that the other titles haven't was release with a huge world w/various quests , and has kept consistantly dangling the carrot of content.

Sorry, but I am massively annoyed by the fact that you just compare all the games to WoW. It's really annoying, especially since the fact that most people these days say the WoW was the first MMO. Umm, hello? Anyone in that empty shell you call a head? Have you not heard of Everquest, nor Dark Age of Camelot? I've never played Everquest my own self, but DAoC was my very first MMO, and from what little time I have spent on my friends WoW character, I have to say, it really disappoints in comparison with DAoC. I know, I'm taking what you, Dana, said in comparing games with WoW, and just comparing WoW with DAoC, but really, what else is there I can do. DAoC and Mythic know how to keep their players entertained. DAoC may have some more realistic graphics, but you know what, they run really well on Windows 95, and if I'm not mistaken, that would be the kind of computer thrown off the back of a truck in the past 5 years. So please, in your next rant about games or whatever, don't compare everything to a half-good game like WoW. They didn't create the generation, they just popularized it with Blizzards many followers. Take a note from the old school. Give love to Everquest, DAoC, UO, and any other pre-WoW games.

Originally posted by Smikis

oh my gawd.. every week yours articless are worse than one before.. and since one before was already terrible, you get my drift how bad and how much nonsense is in this one..

 

system requirements? CHRIST  what exactly you been smoking , and in which century are you living ,

do you look at those   3 mln registered at xxx f2p game. and consider thats success? from 3mln, there is 300k active. .from 300k active there are 50k who buys items, from 50k there are 500 who buys items every week.. or even less

 

its not system requirements, that made what wow is now..

now eq2 didnt had chances not cuz of high spec needed, wow had high specs needed at a time too.. i bought top end ( best you could buy )  like 6-8 months before wow released,it would ran wow on 20-30 fps on med/high , with every patch it would go down, in tbc it was already 15-20 fps.. it would been probably 10 with wotlk

it was wow polish and content , and regular updates, you know few years ago i felt like checking eq2.. then i saw list of all expansions and adventure packs ( before they started selling them together ) there were so many. and all of them had full price..

i launched eq2 trial  week ago, god how terrible it looks.. character models maybe have more details, but everything rest.. felt like playing doom back in 1995..

 

aoc didnt fail cuz of high requirements.. its still ? second best selling mmo ( atleast were in the start, and seems like its on the rise again now, according to some posts )

 

do you actually know what kinda pc you need to run wow at max, and 60+ fps while in raids..  yup.. high end CURRENT HIGH END 

 

aoc with shader model 2 can be run on weaker pc that you need for wow..

wow didnt had its sucess cuz of low requiremnts.. it had due accessibility and polished game, there were so many betas, both closed and open, for wow.. everyone could try, after trying we all wanted to play it.. it was sold in every third world country that didnt knew there are such things as non pirated games..

and constant updates kept ppl playing

 

poor war performance, while been one of points why war failed, it wasnt main reason, to me main reason was that it had terrible low server caps, and world that felt nothing like world i want to play in... it felt like there are 3 islands..all of them divided into 3 zones.. terrible

why do we have casual propoganda posts in hc gaming forums?  tell me how many casual gamers we have here.. ill tell you very few, tell me how many hc gamers hate casual games and gamers .. 90% 

 

im not exactly sure why mmorpg.com felt like they needed all those new ppl write collums every week.. there havent been single good one.. whats next week,

PAINTING MMO WHY NOT ?  oh that already was there in a way  OK SINGING MMO , ROCKBAND ONLINE MMORPG go , i bet you would love it..

I rarely ever post, but I wholeheartedly agree with your statement.  I may sound like an elitist, but I am 100 percent willing to shell out 50 bucks + a subscription fee and $100-200 dollars a year (for hardware upgrades) for a high-quality game.

Basically, the point I am trying to make is that graphics / system requirements shouldn't be a limiting factor in what constitutes a good game.  What, only MMO's that use Direct X 9.0 and pixel shader 2.0 can be considered to garner widespread appeal?  I can find a similar analogy to what people eat.  I consider myself a foodie and a gamer.  I wouldn't say I have an expensive taste, but when I go out and get say, a 24 oz. Prime Rib at a steakhouse, I know well beforehand I'm going to be spending easily $50 or more for the meal.  However, I KNOW this meal is going to be savory and delicious, which is the only reason I'm willing to pay that price for it.  In a sense, the concept of "appreciating the finer things in life" can apply to MMO's: some people are always going to want to pay the absolute minimum and expect a mind-blowing experience of fun and entertainment.  WAKE UP; it's not going to happen.  Hardware companies and game companies all depend on consumers to generate revenue for advancement in technology and products.  If we let the gaming industry stagnate into F2P MMO's and lackluster graphics, then by all means, keep supporting sub-par games and continue living in 2005.

I'm still in college and may have not tasted the real world as most people know it (studying CS at Brown), but myriad algorithms / optimizations in just the realm of computer graphics are constantly being discovered.  AI, database optimizations, processing power of the GPU (real-time raytracing just as an example), and many other utilities are available to make a truly great game.  There is no sense in wasting what is available to developers and settling for mediocrity.  Yes, the bottlenecks of financing and target audience create sufficient obstacles for such a game, but the mentality of "Oh we should settle for less and do what is comfortable without going the extra mile" is definitely not the way to go.  I'm pretty sure any company outside the context of the MMO-industry would scoff at such a rediculous statement.  High-quality, some risk, and a lot of heart, period.

"Heck, Blizzard’s next two games are isometric. No one has released an isometric title in years, everything must be 3D, right?"

Sigh.  Please do a little research before posting something like this.  Starcraft 2 is fully rendered in 3D.  It just happens to have an isometric view.  Isometric doesn't mean the game isn't rendered in 3D.

Very intresting article - Good read.

Point about WOW tho - their graphic engine is now acutally limiting ppl and FPS are falling rapidly in Northrend.  Their updated graphics also add extra load on the servers and that is leading to less ppl beeing able to enter instances.  Yes .... there is actually a Q for getting into instances in WOW now...  PPL are paying subs for standing in a Q....

Seeing the latest batch of free games beeing released - I have to agree that there is not much of a reason to be spending money on subs.  Games like Atlantica online and Runes of Magic are awsome games - even if they were beeing subed.  And there is one huge plus to these free to play games.

F2P games have no reason to PR ppl into "buying" them.  You play them - you like them - or you hate them.  Its up to you.

What did Age of Conan do ?  It fooled litterally million PPL to buy a box BEFORE the game even released.  All through PR and all that PR promising something that wasn't even in the game when it finally released.  The exact same thing is happening with WAR.   It was supposed to be all about RVR - but somehow the devs kinda forgot to mention it on the box - that the RVR part of the game is not only broken... it is also limited in numbers or the Server crashes.  Yes.. thats what you pay your sub for.

For me - I do not care about Graphics in an MMO.  To me mmoRPG games are a story - and it really does not matter if I have a hardcover or a paperback novel to read.  As long I can read it (play it and have fun and enjoy the journey in gaming terms) I will enjoy it - as long as the actual story and content are worth reading in the first place.

Thats were the free to play have been improving lately - they are becoming better and better.  While the latest subed and buy to play games are actually standing still or even promising something that they can't deliver.  And some are even going backwards like AOC launching with a faulty Auctionhouse that was exploided until it was taken offline. 

Extra money for better graphics is not worth it when the rest of the actual game is broken like happened with AOC.  Extra money for "better game" is not valid either.  I really enjoy playing Runes of magic atm - much more than I like WOW cause Blizzard would actually sell their own grandma if they could make some money out of it now (payed for faction changes the latest).  Hows that any diffrent than those item shop free to play games ? 

So ... now games like WOW are actually

Box sale
Subed game
Item shop (faction changes, look changes,  Name changes, server transfers)

Im sorry but where is the gaming part ? Is that the part where a class is nerfed and buffed every other month so you buy the next sub instead of just admitting that those changes have nothing to do with balance ? 

I surely hope that free to play games are the future of gaming.    Would I pay extra for something better ?  Yes I would - but is it going to be anything better ?  No not with the way buisness works....

Once subscription games make their games as easy to play, install and run as their F2P counterparts, then we’ll be able to gather some real data and find out which business model actually is better.

The only people who want an easy, non-detailed graphic mmo that has no content are.........10 year olds

you made alot of good points but that last statement makes me think should stick to browser based mmos ROFL

 I don't agree. 99% of the F2P mmos are trash

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Tingtong1

Unfortunately it's people like the OP who keep reminding us why company's can't put out a decent game since wow. They simply FAIL at developing innovative game mechanics that WORK..

 

You think people are playing WOW because it's the only thing their PC can run? When you can pickup a PC that runs AOC,WAR for less then $500? If that's what you think then all I can say is........ WOW.  Consumer's will ALWAYS buy better hardware if they reach a limit with their software/games... It's a proven FACT. The issue is your not convincing them they NEED a upgrade. What makes people buy a Xbox 360 over a Xbox? Can we say.... HALO? Another perfect example was failcom. Most people were on the fence about upgrading until they discovered they produced a turd in a box. Even then 700k players whole heartly bought the game and upgraded their machines for a huge dissapointment.

 

 

Originally posted by Dana

And I don’t want to hear “but our graphics scale!” That’s not a valid counter argument. No one has ever successfully made a game that scales visually.

 

FFXI made their game scale and cross-platform years and years ahead of it's time. So thanks once again for proving you really know nothing about the industry you write columns on. Also Log on to LOTRO instead of writting fail columns and you can see that game also scales DX9--->DX10 Flawlessly and with good performance unlike WAR, AOC.

 

Don't bother quoting or responding because you've pretty much lost any credibility at posting a valid argument. I understand everyone has their own opinion but this was so far off in left field I had to post.

 

Its obvious you don't get the point.  Lets examine some of your fallacies shall we?  First, I see you are still bowing down to the shrine of the <Great God> INNOVATION... ^^ Ah, you did say "that work"... But do you have any conception of how many games have failed to get funded because they "break new ground in innovative game mechanics"? There are so many clones of successful games for a reason. You don't risk tens of millions of dollars of *other peoples money* on the *chance* that your Innovation will not only work, but will be considered *fun* by a LOT of other people. If you want to see a room full of investors go all starry eyed, and start throwing truck loads of money at you, intone the mystic phrase "Its just like World of Warcraft"...

Next, consoles are *NOT* PC's in the minds of the general population.  You are expecting WAY too much from such types. Yes, I know its quite simple to not only upgrade PC's, but to build the things, but thats from a totally different perspective than the typical game consumer.  Anyone who has had to deal with tech support for even simple PC hardware "issues" can tell you horror stories about ignorance/idiocy that would cause you to go screaming to the east. Buying a new game console is different from upgrading a PC. Which is one reason that so damn many people are still using PC relics to this very day. Yes, if a console game is good enough, many people WILL buy a new *console*. There are many fewer people who will buy a new PC, or even upgrade one.

Its interesting that you mention FFXI. Have you examined their subscription numbers? They are a niche game that appeals to a certain limited demographic *within the established gaming population*.  LOTR(even with a massive number of people interested in Tolkien's works) has still demonstrated that they appeal to only to a certain limited demographic.  WoW is the first Western game to demonstrate the ability to pull in millions and millions(coming up on 12) of gamers across the spectrum. Not only that, but they have pulled in people who are outside of the typical gaming population.  Just ONE of the reasons is because WoW will run on the relics that the typical consumer has available. Its also a good game, all the way to level cap for another.

You seriously should have left your last paragraph out.  Its an all too typical mentality these days. "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind has already been made up..." You did more to undermine your own credibility than anyone else could have managed with that.

wow is so easy a ten your old could get 80 in a month.......thats why it sells, i believe if your a true mmo player you hate wow with a passion for how it fucked up good mmo's cause now everything trys to be like wow. EQ ULTIMA AC FTW

i have to agree that all the points you raised are exactly what mythic DO NOT DO. Dark age of camelot a game which by its nature has some of the best pvp gaming (ok the pve sucks but cant have everything) however the download and install for the game is a monstrous process.They could get around everything by putting together a download that includes all the patches to date and all the expansions call it Dark Age of Camelot and then have it put together a simple trial account that a minute after you have downloaded your in an playing.

I recently returned to the game and thought i would try out the trial system instead of reopening my accounts, the process was an absolute nightmare. Instead of hosting the files themselves they have them spread over multiple providers some of which require registration or subscription payments themselves. After i got past all this garbage and started to download the game i realised that this was downloading only the equivalent of Trials of atlantis the third expansion it hadnt included anything past TOA which included Catacombs and Darkness Rising.

Anyways after it had all downloaded i went to create myself a trial account and i couldnt beleive it Mythic are still expecting people to input credit card details to guarentee payment in other words if you just wanted to find out what the game was like you had to hand over your credit card details. This i felt was a massive blow to the whole concept of trial process, i gave up there and then and instead reactivated my accounts.

I think the problem is certain companies are still living 5 years in the past, they want credit card and not prepared to embrace paypal or debit cards. they want credit cards and they may not realise but not everyone can get a credit card. I think the future is accessible subscription. Dont force people to jump through multiple hoops provide a clear and consise way to activate your game. Age of Conan was another game that the subscription process was a long and convoluted system which didnt actually make it clear if you were paying for anarchy online OR age of conan, and the canceling system was even more complex.

i will say lord of the rings was slightly better but the problem of EU and US versions of the game having different websites and different payment options mean i nearly subscribed to the US when i wanted the EU. (i canceled in the end because the game is boring) as for ncsoft at least they made things slightly easier.

As for F2P mmo's after the disapointment of Archlord im very reluctant to go to that model, i understand it is very succesful but that in itself is worrying. In archlord i could easily spend more than a months worth of subscription on pots and items which would only last 2 weeks 3 if i was conservative and a friend of mine told me how she could easily spend money on a f2p game.

Graphics is another issue i think your right in thinking that the gaming public generally has a rig thats 2 to 3 years old, they dont have the most up to date system and because wow litterally runs on anything nowadays thats the benefit it has over newer releases. Even warhammer i felt was low in the graphics department not much better than WOW but still required massive overheads that stressed even my machine.

Fast playable and easy to access that should be the mantra for companies.

1 thing about WAR and AoC is that they sold alot of copies, and also got alot of people online, at 1st. The problem was that they couldnt keep them, I doubt that is because of accessibilty or system requirements, because most were past that, they just did not enjoy the game or the bugs.