Today, 04:20 PM
Tasos Darkfall Developer   Join Date: Jan 2003	Expansion and N. American Server Launch It was just determined that the Darkfall expansion will go live on Tuesday July 7th.  This short delay pushes back the N. American launch to Monday July 13th.  More information on the Darkfall expansion on Monday July 6th and on the N. American launch shortly after.  Thank you, The Darkfall Team __________________

~Ripper

that sucks.. Mostly becuase the forums will be filled with miles and miles of huge total tonage of crap until then.

oh man! hold on here it comes!

It amazes me that 5 days before the NA launch was supposed to happen we still don't know anything about the publisher or any other details of the launch. If I had to guess, I'd say they're withholding launch info until post expansion in order to hopefully ride the coat tails of the expansion euphoria.

I still have a sinking feeling the North American expansion is going to be more of the same "Mickey Mouse" publisher/billing/account shenanigans we've seen with the European server. Unfortunately, Aventurine isn't doing any damage control at all.

~Ripper

oh god thank you AV this is all we needed haha! ok hands up i admit Darkfall is going down!

Ok i dont realy think that :) is it just the NA server that is delayed then? if so then that's not bad at all for us EU users :) on a selfish note that is...sorry! But again AV it was pretty obvious if you were implementing a large patch on the 7th, why did you even anounce the server opening on the same day? wouldn't it have been better to wait to see if the patch works first so only one server would be messed up.

Anyone with MMo experience knows that a large patch is followed by many smaller patchs fixing things.

Originally posted by shukes33

oh god thank you AV this is all we needed haha! ok hands up i admit Darkfall is going down!

Ok i dont realy think that :) is it just the NA server that is delayed then? if so then that's not bad at all for us EU users :) on a selfish note that is...sorry! But again AV it was pretty obvious if you were implementing a large patch on the 7th, why did you even anounce the server opening on the same day? wouldn't it have been better to wait to see if the patch works first so only one server would be messed up.

Anyone with MMo experience knows that a large patch is followed by many smaller patchs fixing things.

Tasos has 0% logic and critical thinking so im not surprized.

Originally posted by rhinok

It amazes me that 5 days before the NA launch was supposed to happen we still don't know anything about the publisher or any other details of the launch. If I had to guess, I'd say they're withholding launch info until post expansion in order to hopefully ride the coat tails of the expansion euphoria.

I still have a sinking feeling the North American expansion is going to be more of the same "Mickey Mouse" publisher/billing/account shenanigans we've seen with the European server. Unfortunately, Aventurine isn't doing any damage control at all.

~Ripper

In all fairness and sarcasm aside I am not exactly sure I understand why you want to know the publisher.

Could you (and I again an honest question) why it matters that you know who the publisher is?

I should have seen this coming.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by rhinok

It amazes me that 5 days before the NA launch was supposed to happen we still don't know anything about the publisher or any other details of the launch. If I had to guess, I'd say they're withholding launch info until post expansion in order to hopefully ride the coat tails of the expansion euphoria.

I still have a sinking feeling the North American expansion is going to be more of the same "Mickey Mouse" publisher/billing/account shenanigans we've seen with the European server. Unfortunately, Aventurine isn't doing any damage control at all.

~Ripper

 

In all fairness and sarcasm aside I am not exactly sure I understand why you want to know the publisher.

Could you (and I again an honest question) why it matters that you know who the publisher is?

I think because Tasos explained that the reason that there will be a charge for the NA client is because there is a different publisher, so licensing and such is added in.  If there is no new publisher, then Tasos has lied yet again and this just becomes a money grab.

 I wont be defending or playing darkfall anymore haha.

Screw Tasos.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

In all fairness and sarcasm aside I am not exactly sure I understand why you want to know the publisher.

Could you (and I again an honest question) why it matters that you know who the publisher is?

For those who are interested, but hesitent, knowing that an experienced publisher is behind the NA release might instill enough confidence to result in a sale.

For those who dislike AV, knowing the publisher will clarify whether the sale of an NA specific client is a money grab or legit based on another company actually owning the rights.

All in all, whether it matters to you or not, it is unual to be this quiet about it. I mean, when they got AudioVisual for EU, AV was quick to publish the news and talk about how great AudioVisual was. So, for those who are interested, but have been hesitent, this is yet another red flag.

Now, just as you ask others to accept that this sort of thing does not matter to you, you need to accept that it does matter to them. Different people have different priorities; simple as that.

I hope no one is actually surprised about the delay.

I called it 2 days ago in race alliance chat.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by rhinok

It amazes me that 5 days before the NA launch was supposed to happen we still don't know anything about the publisher or any other details of the launch. If I had to guess, I'd say they're withholding launch info until post expansion in order to hopefully ride the coat tails of the expansion euphoria.

I still have a sinking feeling the North American expansion is going to be more of the same "Mickey Mouse" publisher/billing/account shenanigans we've seen with the European server. Unfortunately, Aventurine isn't doing any damage control at all.

~Ripper

 

In all fairness and sarcasm aside I am not exactly sure I understand why you want to know the publisher.

Could you (and I again an honest question) why it matters that you know who the publisher is?

Here are some examples of why it matters:

• Traditional publisher activies (from experienced, legitimate publishers) include funding development, marketing, managing billing, handling customer support, managing the community, etc..  As of now, the only thing that AudioVisual appears to do for Darkfall is manage the billing system.  Having an experienced games publisher for North America could be very beneficial for Darkfall in terms off funding, development, exposure and player confidence.
• The absence of a an experienced, known publisher implies that Aventurine is either self-publishing or is going with another unknown, possibly inexperienced company.
  • If they're going with another company, how can players be confident that their handling of Darkfall will be any better than AudioVisual's? Frankly, Aventurine's ability to communicate with and manage their community is susppect and it's clear they released the game before it as ready to go live.  That doesn't inspire confidence in their current abilities, much less in their potential to not just develop the game, but self-publish it.
  • If Aventurine is self-publishing, what they've really done is cut out the middle-man (AudioVisual, in Europe) in favor of attempting to control all of the revenue.  It seems really, really greedy.  On top of that, Tasos has implied in his statements that the North American rights belong to a separate entity than in Europe.  This implies that there is a publisher.  If that publisher is actually Aventurine, then he's being dishonest with this clientele via "lies by omission". Why is that important?
    • Having a legitimate publisher would help justify the plan to charge for a North American license and subscription model that's separate from the Euopean account system.Technically, AudioVisual hasn't paid for the rights to ditstribute the game outside of Europe, so even if Aventurine was self-publishing, they'd have to set up a separate accounting and billing system, but they would control who can transfer to the North American world, when and how much it would cost (barring any fees demanded by AudioVisual to relinquish the accounts).

Simply put, an experienced, professional publisher could be a boon for Darkfall and it's players.  The absence of such a publisher in favor of an unknown, inexperienced entity or Aventurine self-publishing will most likely be detrimental.

~Ripper

Originally posted by mklinic

 

For those who are interested, but hesitent, knowing that an experienced publisher is behind the NA release might instill enough confidence to result in a sale.

For those who dislike AV, knowing the publisher will clarify whether the sale of an NA specific client is a money grab or legit based on another company actually owning the rights.

All in all, whether it matters to you or not, it is unual to be this quiet about it. I mean, when they got AudioVisual for EU, AV was quick to publish the news and talk about how great AudioVisual was. So, for those who are interested, but have been hesitent, this is yet another red flag.

Now, just as you ask others to accept that this sort of thing does not matter to you, you need to accept that it does matter to them. Different people have different priorities; simple as that.

Well that helps me understand a little more. But not completely.

One reason I am still confused is that the publisher of NA is not going to be a the develoepr of the game. The publsiher of NA isnt going to make the game better or worse either way so I am not sure I understand.

Would you really come back and play the game if the NA server was published by some firm you like?

Originally posted by rhinok

Here are some examples of why it matters:

• Traditional publisher activies (from experienced, legitimate publishers) include funding development, marketing, managing billing, handling customer support, managing the community, etc..  As of now, the only thing that AudioVisual appears to do for Darkfall is manage the billing system.  Having an experienced games publisher for North America could be very beneficial for Darkfall in terms off funding, development, exposure and player confidence.
• The absence of a an experienced, known publisher implies that Aventurine is either self-publishing or is going with another unknown, possibly inexperienced company.
  • If they're going with another company, how can players be confident that their handling of Darkfall will be any better than AudioVisual's? Frankly, Aventurine's ability to communicate with and manage their community is susppect and it's clear they released the game before it as ready to go live.  That doesn't inspire confidence in their current abilities, much less in their potential to not just develop the game, but self-publish it.
  • If Aventurine is self-publishing, what they've really done is cut out the middle-man (AudioVisual, in Europe) in favor of attempting to control all of the revenue.  It seems really, really greedy.  On top of that, Tasos has implied in his statements that the North American rights belong to a separate entity than in Europe.  This implies that there is a publisher.  If that publisher is actually Aventurine, then he's being dishonest with this clientele via "lies by omission". Why is that important?
    • Having a legitimate publisher would help justify the plan to charge for a North American license and subscription model that's separate from the Euopean account system.Technically, AudioVisual hasn't paid for the rights to ditstribute the game outside of Europe, so even if Aventurine was self-publishing, they'd have to set up a separate accounting and billing system, but they would control who can transfer to the North American world, when and how much it would cost (barring any fees demanded by AudioVisual to relinquish the accounts).

Simply put, an experienced, professional publisher could be a boon for Darkfall and it's players.  The absence of such a publisher in favor of an unknown, inexperienced entity or Aventurine self-publishing will most likely be detrimental.

~Ripper

what about the code itself?

maybe I missed it becuase I scanned looking for the word "code".

I think on this one I am on the side of AV the company itself. They have stated they are more intrested in trying to make a good game more than anything else on that list.

I usually dont praise or scold companies becuase I simply dont care. I care about the game, but on that I say "well done". keep the focus on the code please!

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Well that helps me understand a little more. But not completely.

One reason I am still confused is that the publisher of NA is not going to be a the develoepr of the game. The publsiher of NA isnt going to make the game better or worse either way so I am not sure I understand.

Would you really come back and play the game if the NA server was published by some firm you like?

I imagine it would all depend on the Publisher. If you look at something like en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_publisher, you'll see various areas of responsibility that a publisher might be involved in. I don't pretend that this list is 100% accurate and complete, but it at least lists some basics.

For my money, the marketing part would likely be one of the more interesting things to look at. An NA publishing firm would have to market the product they are selling. This sounds like the "new website" that is supposed to coincide with the server launch. Now, if I can look someplace and actually tell what it is I am buying then great. As it stands now, I can't tell if what is on the current website is actually in the game.

Another key point is the funding of development. This could be great for AV as it could buy some time to recover their reputation and really focus on the game. A little bit of funding could go a long way toward fixing various issues that the playerbase have been the most vocal about.

Now, on the flip side, I would certainly not be interested if this were just an NA division of AV as this would, once again, be an example of the company not being forthcoming with their (potential) customers. I've already been through that with other games and see that as a big, neon warning sign.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by rhinok

Here are some examples of why it matters:

• Traditional publisher activies (from experienced, legitimate publishers) include funding development, marketing, managing billing, handling customer support, managing the community, etc..  As of now, the only thing that AudioVisual appears to do for Darkfall is manage the billing system.  Having an experienced games publisher for North America could be very beneficial for Darkfall in terms off funding, development, exposure and player confidence.
• The absence of a an experienced, known publisher implies that Aventurine is either self-publishing or is going with another unknown, possibly inexperienced company.
  • If they're going with another company, how can players be confident that their handling of Darkfall will be any better than AudioVisual's? Frankly, Aventurine's ability to communicate with and manage their community is susppect and it's clear they released the game before it as ready to go live.  That doesn't inspire confidence in their current abilities, much less in their potential to not just develop the game, but self-publish it.
  • If Aventurine is self-publishing, what they've really done is cut out the middle-man (AudioVisual, in Europe) in favor of attempting to control all of the revenue.  It seems really, really greedy.  On top of that, Tasos has implied in his statements that the North American rights belong to a separate entity than in Europe.  This implies that there is a publisher.  If that publisher is actually Aventurine, then he's being dishonest with this clientele via "lies by omission". Why is that important?
    • Having a legitimate publisher would help justify the plan to charge for a North American license and subscription model that's separate from the Euopean account system.Technically, AudioVisual hasn't paid for the rights to ditstribute the game outside of Europe, so even if Aventurine was self-publishing, they'd have to set up a separate accounting and billing system, but they would control who can transfer to the North American world, when and how much it would cost (barring any fees demanded by AudioVisual to relinquish the accounts).

Simply put, an experienced, professional publisher could be a boon for Darkfall and it's players.  The absence of such a publisher in favor of an unknown, inexperienced entity or Aventurine self-publishing will most likely be detrimental.

~Ripper

what about the code itself?

maybe I missed it becuase I scanned looking for the word "code".

I think on this one I am on the side of AV the company itself. They have stated they are more intrested in trying to make a good game more than anything else on that list.

I usually dont praise or scold companies becuase I simply dont care. I care about the game, but on that I say "well done". keep the focus on the code please!

The "code" really has nothing to do with the previous question, nor with my reply.  That being said, there needs to be balance between vision and reality.  Aventurine is running a business that caters to consumers.  If enough consumers are dissatisfied with how Aventurine runs their business, they'll leave.  If that happens, it doesn't matter how laudable Aventurine's vision or intent are, becuase there won't be enough players to support the business , future development or to even play against each other.

As to Aventurine's vision, I think it's admirable, but I don't thinky they've been successful in pulling it off.  Parts of Darkfall are definitely fun, but it also needs a lot of work.  I'd say the expansion is really more of an attempt to put in missing, promised features and polish the game out of it's seemingly perpetual beta state.  Regardless of the "code", Aventurine's worst problem is Aventurine.

~Ripper

Originally posted by rhinok

The "code" really has nothing to do with the previous question, nor with my reply.  That being said, there needs to be balance between vision and reality.  Aventurine is running a business that caters to consumers.  If enough consumers are dissatisfied with how Aventurine runs their business, they'll leave.  If that happens, it doesn't matter how laudable Aventurine's vision or intent are, becuase there won't be enough players to support the business , future development or to even play against each other.

As to Aventurine's vision, I think it's admirable, but I don't thinky they've been successful in pulling it off.  Parts of Darkfall are definitely fun, but it also needs a lot of work.  I'd say the expansion is really more of an attempt to put in missing, promised features and polish the game out of it's seemingly perpetual beta state.  Regardless of the "code", Aventurine's worst problem is Aventurine.

~Ripper

Well its true you have answer my question and from my understanding the answer is as follows (and I want to make clear I am not trying to be mean and I am not "upset" like some other poster suggested).

You want to know who the publisher is becuase you feel that the publisher selected could hurt the game to the point where you would not have at least one server populated enough for you to have a good time.

Its a fair concern, however I have seen games less popular than DF make it just fine. In other words, I am not concern about DF becoming a popular game, just remain online and for that super cadallic business model is not required so its less of a concern for me.

So with that, you answer my question and I have stated my view on it and I guess we are done.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by rhinok

The "code" really has nothing to do with the previous question, nor with my reply.  That being said, there needs to be balance between vision and reality.  Aventurine is running a business that caters to consumers.  If enough consumers are dissatisfied with how Aventurine runs their business, they'll leave.  If that happens, it doesn't matter how laudable Aventurine's vision or intent are, becuase there won't be enough players to support the business , future development or to even play against each other.

As to Aventurine's vision, I think it's admirable, but I don't thinky they've been successful in pulling it off.  Parts of Darkfall are definitely fun, but it also needs a lot of work.  I'd say the expansion is really more of an attempt to put in missing, promised features and polish the game out of it's seemingly perpetual beta state.  Regardless of the "code", Aventurine's worst problem is Aventurine.

~Ripper

 

Well its true you have answer my question and from my understanding the answer is as follows (and I want to make clear I am not trying to be mean and I am not "upset" like some other poster suggested).

You want to know who the publisher is becuase you feel that the publisher selected could hurt the game to the point where you would not have at least one server populated enough for you to have a good time.

Its a fair concern, however I have seen games less popular than DF make it just fine. In other words, I am not concern about DF becoming a popular game, just remain online and for that super cadallic business model is not required so its less of a concern for me.

So with that, you answer my question and I have stated my view on it and I guess we are done.

 

I think what he was trying to say is that having a well known and experienced publisher may actually improve the game. Most of the time this kind of news would be made public and advertised long before the release. AV's silence makes people worry that something is wrong, and AV is being silent so that not to scare potential customers.

Publisher's make a world of difference...look what happened to TCOS

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

 

 

 

Its a fair concern, however I have seen games less popular than DF make it just fine. In other words, I am not concern about DF becoming a popular game, just remain online and for that super cadallic business model is not required so its less of a concern for me.

 

So with that, you answer my question and I have stated my view on it and I guess we are done.

 

There are currently no subscription games less popular than Darkfall in operation. Darkfall has the smallest suscriber base of any $15 per month pay to play MMO.  If they can't pull in more subscribers with the "expansion" and the NA server you're going to be playing something else soon.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

 

 

 

Its a fair concern, however I have seen games less popular than DF make it just fine. In other words, I am not concern about DF becoming a popular game, just remain online and for that super cadallic business model is not required so its less of a concern for me.

 

So with that, you answer my question and I have stated my view on it and I guess we are done.

 

 

There are currently no subscription games less popular than Darkfall in operation. Darkfall has the smallest suscriber base of an pay to play MMO.  If they can't pull in more subscribers with the "expansion" and the NA server you're going to be playing something else soon.

With a track record that Taos has..I see nothing working right regardless what it is..

Originally posted by jimmyman99

I think what he was trying to say is that having a well known and experienced publisher may actually improve the game. Most of the time this kind of news would be made public and advertised long before the release. AV's silence makes people worry that something is wrong, and AV is being silent so that not to scare potential customers.

 

I think I dont fully understand. Would the publisher have rights to the code or game design choices?

if not i do not see how it could make the game better or worse either way.
 

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

 

 

 

Its a fair concern, however I have seen games less popular than DF make it just fine. In other words, I am not concern about DF becoming a popular game, just remain online and for that super cadallic business model is not required so its less of a concern for me.

 

So with that, you answer my question and I have stated my view on it and I guess we are done.

 

 

There are currently no subscription games less popular than Darkfall in operation. Darkfall has the smallest suscriber base of any $15 per month pay to play MMO.  If they can't pull in more subscribers with the "expansion" and the NA server you're going to be playing something else soon.

He's on break from DFO; making modules for Neverwinter Nights, but that's neither here nor there.

Stop responding to him. 
He trolls threads in the exact same way, answering everything with a question on the basis that "he just doesn't understand" in an effort to derail the original topic.  People keep falling for it.

It's not an expansion.  You can't have an expansion for a game that hasn't even completed development. 
It's a patch.

You would think that if Av had found a publisher that the publisher themself would have made an announcement by now; even if Av hasn't.  I really don't think they have one.  I think that it'll turn out to be some sort of hole in the wall company that doesn't typically handle game publishing, and Av will run account services and billing through them just like they do with Audiovisual.  Or to put it another way, a front.

I personally think its hysterical that they pushed back the date till the 13th, which is when MO preorders. :P

Originally posted by Fariic

 

He's on break from DFO; making modules for Neverwinter Nights, but that's neither here nor there.

Stop responding to him. 
He trolls threads in the exact same way, answering everything with a question on the basis that "he just doesn't understand" in an effort to derail the original topic.  People keep falling for it.

It's not an expansion.  You can't have an expansion for a game that hasn't even completed development. 
It's a patch.

You would think that if Av had found a publisher that the publisher themself would have made an announcement by now; even if Av hasn't.  I really don't think they have one.  I think that it'll turn out to be some sort of hole in the wall company that doesn't typically handle game publishing, and Av will run account services and billing through them just like they do with Audiovisual.  Or to put it another way, a front.

Correct, its not an expansion even though it is called that.

Terms aside the content deployed is exactly the same either way.

(p.s. and yes. I actually dont understand 1/2 the time)