Originally posted by Rohn

Originally posted by Moretrinkets

No one is forcing people to play a video game, if people feel the devs are mistreating them, there is always a cancel button and problem solved. Also we must keep in mind that software will always be vulnerable to hackers. I am sure the devs are working on the issue, but do not expect them to fix them fast. Chances are they will never get rid of the hacks.

 

It has nothing to do with "being forced" to play.  It's about people wanting to enjoy their leisure time playing a game - in this case a competitive PvP game - in an environment that's as level as possible.  With all the investment in time that playing an MMO can take, long-term reliability is an even greater issue.

As almost everyone has stated, hacks are a part of just about every game.  But, NCSoft has a very poor track record with handling these types of things.  That is the concern that I have.  A company's history does actually mean something.

Then, knowing how this company handles these issues, why continue giving them money? As a customer, if I do not like a product, I will not support it. Simply as that. And we are not talking here about a product like food or clothes, it is just a video game. If people wants to give money to this company and don't care about the hacks, then go ahead. No one is forcing you to do it.

When I first started playing Dark Age of Camelot, it didn't take long before there were hacks in the game. Most noticable to me was the Odin's Eye hack which allowed players to radar the enemy. So ya, even my most favorite game of all time had hackers in it. If you see someone who is obviously hacking, report them. Darkfall has hackers too, but it seems the players claim they are far and few between now.

I'll still be playing the game, but if it seems everyone and their doggy is hacking, I may reconsider.

Originally posted by gom276

I played city of heroes for a long time and i don't remember seeing cheating and hacks, curious.  Why way City of heroes not as exploted as the other titles.

It almost seems that any MMO with asian appeal is attacked and hacked more often and the user base more inclined to partake than most western MMO's

I remember early days of WoW were less bots until it hit asian markets then gold farming and exploits took off.  Hmmm....  curious, is it just a mild observation or is there really something to this?

Cultural maybe.

I don't think its a cultural thing, its a product of other things.

1) Population size.  The more population a game has, the more likely someone is to be willing to commit the time it takes to develop the hack.  The market for MMOs in the East is far larger than the Western market.

2) Player competition.  There's a lot less motivation to develop hacks for strictly PvE games.  The player community also gets far less upset about them when they do appear.  Alot more of the Asian games released feature some emphasis on PvP than their Western counterparts.

3) Open worlds.  Hacks can be rampant in games like WoW and CoX but as long as the people using them keep their mouths shut and stay inside instances, no one else knows.  Play a game with a single world like L2 though and there's no where to do it privately.

 Some of these patches looks like poor design decisions on AION

You can only cheat on stuff like speed if some stuff run clientside.   Indeed, the game dev's will want to move to clientside as much of the game has posible.. .to make the game faster and smoother, and to save then some CPU on the server. But theres something like a ...limit in a game with PVP. 

:-/ 

Anyway I suppose that the world don't end with technology. There are human beings... is teh GM's and the players reporting the culprits, that will help more than any tecnique. 

To be honest i dont think about the hackers/gold sellers, im sure il come across a few. If people want to do well in the game by cheating then i think its there loss and i pity them :D

Sure as hell wont waste a second thought on them and il get on enjoying the game.

If you guys want discuss more about aion hack, visit here as well.

Click

Originally posted by kimsikyoul

If you guys want discuss more about aion hack, visit here as well.

Click

Good link, thank you for the info.

yawn, just another *feature* of a korean, grindfest, click to move game, nothing new to see here, move along

It's obviously in the developer priority list to close hacking holes, but it's usually not that simple when they abuse a game architecture mechanic.

Opinions usually distort facts, and opening a thread like this will change it much from its reality.

I agree though, my current biggest worry with Aion are hacks and mechanic/bug exploitation. It's so sad when we have to quit a game not because it sucks, but because its anti-cheating systems suck. And don't come with that BS that you can play while many are hacking, there is no sense of accomplishment, and that's why I believe NCSoft will do everything it can to kill hacking in all aspects - including its advertising in any way.

They can't really go and say "we are taking care of the current cheats - our ETA are three months". That would mean three months of rampant hacking.

Trust me, this already happened in RF Online with duping and server crashing exploits, if the company managing the game gives an ETA on it, you literaly open the doors to its abuse.

Originally posted by EricDanie

It's obviously in the developer priority list to close hacking holes, but it's usually not that simple when they abuse a game architecture mechanic.

Opinions usually distort facts, and opening a thread like this will change it much from its reality.

I agree though, my current biggest worry with Aion are hacks and mechanic/bug exploitation. It's so sad when we have to quit a game not because it sucks, but because its anti-cheating systems suck. And don't come with that BS that you can play while many are hacking, there is no sense of accomplishment, and that's why I believe NCSoft will do everything it can to kill hacking in all aspects - including its advertising in any way.

They can't really go and say "we are taking care of the current cheats - our ETA are three months". That would mean three months of rampant hacking.

Trust me, this already happened in RF Online with duping and server crashing exploits, if the company managing the game gives an ETA on it, you literaly open the doors to its abuse.

They dont seem to be in a hurry to remove the thread from AionSource so that is a good sign.

I'll be watching the reports on this issue closely. Nothing destroys enjoyment of a PVP game than rampant hacking.  Let's hope NCSoft takes strong action against it, though from the OP doesn't sound like they are off to a great start.

Originally posted by mxmissile

yawn, just another *feature* of a korean, grindfest, click to move game, nothing new to see here, move along

Might want to give correct into when you insult something. It's not a click to move game. You can if you want, but i surely won't be doing so. Grindfest I can't say because I've never played, but it obviously has more quests than L2.

Originally posted by ajames123

To be honest i dont think about the hackers/gold sellers, im sure il come across a few. If people want to do well in the game by cheating then i think its there loss and i pity them :D

Sure as hell wont waste a second thought on them and il get on enjoying the game.

In most games, I think this is the way it normally is, and is as it should be.

Like others have said above, however - depending on the type of game, and the systems in the game, the impact of hackers can be variable.

If it ends up being like L2 or Darkfall, then you are almost forced to notice.

We can make bets when, after Mortal Online release, such posts appear in that forum.

Originally posted by Shol

We can make bets when, after Mortal Online release, such posts appear in that forum.

 

There have already been a number of posts regarding the potential problems of hacking in the MO official forum, primarily because of the huge problem it has been with Darkfall, and the similarities between the two games.

Of course that has little to do with hacking in Aion.  NCSoft's has earned a bad reputation regarding such things in the past.  I hope they improve with Aion.

I find this comment by him quit odd

Quote:  "Sometimes you're lvl50 and you get 2sec destroyed by some 30 lvl assassin...which is by the way Bullshit."

There is a BIG difference between a lvl50 and a lvl30.  A lvl 30 char can fire off all his skills and still not get half his hp down, HELL most of the attacks will miss due to the stat's.  I would not be surprised if this dude got pwned by a lvl50 Sin that used the skin swapping system on his gear so he looked like he was wearing low lvl gear.

He should have looked up the guy in the powerbook to see what his true lvl was.

There have been hacks and glitches before and they were dealed with, I don't know what does this hack have that the previous ones didnt. It's good that this has been brought to the public attention because now is when NCsoft might act.

Originally posted by stayontarget

I find this comment by him quit odd

Quote:  "Sometimes you're lvl50 and you get 2sec destroyed by some 30 lvl assassin...which is by the way Bullshit."

 

There is a BIG difference between a lvl50 and a lvl30.  A lvl 30 char can fire off all his skills and still not get half his hp down, HELL most of the attacks will miss due to the stat's.  I would not be surprised if this dude got pwned by a lvl50 Sin that used the skin swapping system on his gear so he looked like he was wearing low lvl gear.

He should have looked up the guy in the powerbook to see what his true lvl was.

 

You might want to read this thread:

www.aionsource.com/forum/questions-answers/20272-aions-critical-noob-hack.html

Drama queens of MMORPG.com come out to plaaaayyyyyyyyyy...

Seriously.. loosen up a little.  Let your e-zipper loose a bit and relax.

its NCSOFT.. using gameguard the easiest thing to crack. Its always going to be like this.. its not WAR, or WOW lmao..

play the game and have fun.. just dont expect it to be like other MMO's in the way of GM's.. blah blah.. they dont care..

I cant comprehend why people are making a fuss about exploits/ hackers within a tested game.  As far as the majority games go, issues like this come up before launch. And ok, NCsoft have not got a good repuation when it comes to superintend games, but see it from my perspective:

If NCsoft cared so little about Aion that they would ignore the problems such as these that can ultimately wreck any game, why wouldn't they just cancel it now, and say "Oh theres another dead game... yep we've done it again people, we tits'd this one up nice an good, so good infact lets add it to our reputation."

After the amount of effort, money and time put into the game (not to mention NCsoft's reputation being on the line again), do you really think they want to ruin this. Somehow I don't think the path is set to bring Aion to its knees like soo many potentially great MMO's of our time i.e Richard Garriot's Tabula Rasa.

Originally posted by Zeiyan

I cant comprehend why people are making a fuss about exploits/ hackers within a tested game.  As far as the majority games go, issues like this come up before launch. And ok, NCsoft have not got a good repuation when it comes to superintend games, but see it from my perspective:

If NCsoft cared so little about Aion that they would ignore the problems such as these that can ultimately wreck any game, why wouldn't they just cancel it now, and say "Oh theres another dead game... yep we've done it again people, we tits'd this one up nice an good, so good infact lets add it to our reputation."

After the amount of effort, money and time put into the game (not to mention NCsoft's reputation being on the line again), do you really think they want to ruin this. Somehow I don't think the path is set to bring Aion to its knees like soo many potentially great MMO's of our time i.e Richard Garriot's Tabula Rasa.

I never played L2... etc yet I find it funny that so many people talk about NCSofts reputation with things like this...

Where is the talk of say.. Mythic.

First 3 or 4 years of DAoC they do absolutely nothing about Radar users.  They finally end up doing a half ass ban because so many people were using radar.  As Mythic stated "people began to feel they needed to use radar to compete"....  Which was when one of the biggest chunks of the community left.

How about the release of WAR?  WARBuddy and the other 3+ versions of the same basic thing... some of them even provided by the same guys that provided DAoC radar(s).

Teleport... move under ground (wonder why that flag was being taken with no one in sight?).. flight.. speed hack... escape speed... self ress (yes there was no healer in that fort but they kept being ressed... how odd..).

I'm not sure how I see this as an NCSoft issue... it is most definitely a community issue.  Its why ToS/Eula enforcement is my number 1 gripe with game companies.

Ever wonder why when you appeal they claim they can't tell you the outcome due to privacy issues?  Because they aren't going to do anything... and if they tell you.. you quit faster.

If they said account with character "xxxx" was banned.. what privacy issue?  They didn't release any personal information.. end of story.  You have no expectation of your characters name or account status being private...  Only your own personal information.

There are going to be hacks..things will break and people will exploit it.  There are probably as many websites dedicated to using explolits as there are for selling gold.

A game company can do two things... They can fix the issues as they appear AND they can permanently ban the accounts of people who use these things.

If NCSoft fixes issues and bans abusers... that's all I'll ask.

So far I've yet to find a game company overly willing to enforce the friggin rules.

If your account is banned... after any appeal process where it officially becames a perma ban.. it should be put in a public section.  This way people can at least see that character XXX that they reported... paid the price.  I think that would go a long way.

*edited note*  Let me add this ... It pisses me off to an extent I wouldn't be able to think in a logical path.. when I see the same guy exploiting day after day.  So what I would love to see is the Eula/ToS considered to be a legally binding contract.  This meaning when I click "agree" I agree to follow the rules and when they charge me they agree to enforce the rules.

Then if a company does not enforce their Eula/Tos players can band together and sue them for breach of contract.  Yes it pisses me off that much....  If nothing else the share holders in a company should at least have this right.  As it has an obvious and very negative effect on the game and their investment.

I remember this specificly from DAoC a certain exploit involving doors.. that was confirmed multiple times by CSR's on every level.  I'm pretty sure if the same guy was still playing he'd still be "under investigation" to this very day.  When someone is actively exploiting while you are talking to a CSR... its not overly difficult for the CSR to come to you... after they said it WAS AN EXPLOIT and see the guy do it.. end of story.  When they put that Eula/ToS up there for you to agree to... they should be required to do their end of it.

Originally posted by mugengaia

Althought there are dozens of people spreading the news being banned as I speak, there are still threads being made this very second by persistent gamers on the Korean Aion general forum.

NCsoft has not only abused its rights against customers by banning their accounts, they have also gone beyond their rights and starting banning innocent gamers for spreading what is FREE-SPEECH.

Sorry, but as others have said that is not a violation of free speech. When you sign up for their forums or install and play their game, you have to agree to their terms meaning they can do what they want within those terms. You legally agreed to adhere to them so they can legally take action against you within those terms if you do something wrong. It is not squelching your freedom of speech to remove a post from their forums, database or servers. You or any other person can go make a website about the exploit and say all you want.

Think of it this way: you can't send an article to TIME magazine and tell them to publish it then turn around and say they are squelching your freedom of speech when they refuse to publish it.

At any rate, I really hope they are proactive in removing said exploits and vulnerabilities. There is always some way that someone will be able to exploit something, as the code is written by humans and humans make mistakes. It really becomes an issue when a single program is able to utterly wreck a game as many Chinese players have said it is.

It really all boils down to hoping that NCSoft will be more willing to ban accounts/fix code to ensure that hacking does not become a constant issue. That and hopefully this perticular exploit was fixed in one of the patches that are not present on the Chinese servers (they're still at like 1.0.2 I think?), or in some patch past the Korean servers (at 1.2 currently?) since they have already confirmed we'll be getting 1.5 in the US/EU release.

Edit: I totally agree with Antarious, in the post above this one. Game companies that require us to agree to a ToS/EULA should have the responsibility to enforce said contract and if they do not, we should be able to take legal action.

Originally posted by mugengaia

Originally posted by Belsameth

Originally posted by mugengaia

NCsoft has not only abused its rights against customers by banning their accounts, they have also gone beyond their rights and starting banning innocent gamers for spreading what is FREE-SPEECH.

 

Free speech? May I remind you it's *THEIR* forum obn which *THEY* geyt to make the rules.

If you want free speech, go host your own forum. Do remember tho, if you do free speech will only go for yourself and not for the other users ;)

As for the issue. Can't blame NCSoft for not wanting to have a discussion about exploits on their official game forum. Rarely will an MMO dev/publisher allow that, so it seems somewhat strange that you act all hurt and such...

 

Well, no I'm not hurt...LOL

 

I quit the game for good.  Closed my account, and never want to play Aion again.  As for the hacks.  It is really bad in Korea.  Almost all the top ranking PvPers in the Abyss are hack users. 

 

Sometimes you're lvl50 and you get 2sec destroyed by some 30 lvl assassin...which is by the way Bullshit. 

Anyways, good luck to all you NA/EU gamers waiting for the release.  I doubt the hacks and bots will ever really be moderated by the GMs or the dev. team in NA/EU.  For one Kim Taek Jin doesn't give a rat's ass about customers, and it's been old news.  I guess I'll just go back to WoW...or try LOTRO. 

I've been wanting to try LOTRO...since people have been telling me Moria's interesting...

Well, anyways good luck to you guys.

GOOD for you,as you SHOULD be standing up against these lame developers like NCSOFT whjo is the worst IMO well next to JOYMAX.

I have pointed out the flaw of GG MANY times and the fact that NCSOFT considers their player base to be thjat dumb is an insult to the players.I would bet 99.9% of the players know GG DOES NOT work and NEVER has worked to stop cheating,so why does NCSOFT try to fool the people?because they are a joke and a VERY lame developer that has NEVER shown any action against botters or cheats.

NOT one single person should be defending NCSOFT,those forums should be bombarded non stop until NCSOFT gets the message that players want a game and a developer they can TRUST,and so far after many years NCSOFT is NOT one to be trusted.

It is also a lame move to stop others from spreading the word on OFFICIAL forums that cheats are being used in the game,they are trying to mislead the customers into thinking their game is a FAIR place to play..pfft.There is almost NEVER any action by GM's ,it is 99% of the time up to players to report cheaters,so the fact they are trying to less educate the users means very few will even know of the cheats to report them,again this is why it is lame to do the cover up action.Copver ups are something goverment does to try and hide MISTAKES or lame actions,it is wrong no matter how much you try to twist it around you know it and i know it.

I don't care if it is NCSOFT or whoever developer,this type of action is brutal and the players should do whatever action is needed to get the message across LOUD n CLEAR.I would say without a doubt a 25-50% sudden subscription cancelation would send the message and action would have to be taken.This goes for ANY game,do not think i am just bashing NCSOFT,just so happens i hate this type of crap from ANY developer.

Grab the cash and run. Keep those pre-orders coming, guys. Get the Special Edition, and one for your friend.