Wish #5 was granted by Star Wars Galaxies. You could even mod your avatar at any time by visiting an Image Designer. Gosh, I miss that game aspect. No one else has come even close to that level of character detail as far as I know. Too bad the game sucks now.

Wishes in order.

1) Sci-fi based MMORPG/FPS sandbox/ with space flight- skill based - no levels.
 

2) Sci-fi based MMORPG/FPS sandbox/ with space flight - skill based - no levels.
 

3) Sci-fi based MMORPG/FPS sandbox/ with space flight - skill based - no levels.
 

4) Sci-fi based MMORPG/FPS sandbox/ with space flight - skill based - no levels.
 

5) Sci-fi based MMORPG/FPS sandbox/ with space flight - skill based - no levels.
 

1).  Longer leveling -  At least 50 days played to reach Max level for hardcore players.  Which would mean 200+ days played for the casuals hopefully more.

2).  Raid empahsis - Actual progression raiding where guilds can differentiate themselves from poor slower or less skilled guilds. 

3.)  Complicated well done combat and classes -  Where skilled players and groups.  No dumbing down of the game for the simple casual kiddie players.

4.)  Well developed crafting system -  Community projects like Horzons, well done mechanics like Vanguard, developed housing system like Horizons, and actual need for crafters at high end.

5A).  Reputation matters -  A community based game where poor reputation hurts players. 

5B)  Dynamic content -   The world changes doe to player actions.  Similar to the vision of Horizons which never was developed.  Where mobs can take over player towns, move their camps and be driven from areas.

I agree with all but #4.

My #6 would be: Why is the Sandbox MMO being abandoned?

I'm in agreement with the entire list, though I would've put the no-IPs at number one.  MMOs are the worst thing that can happen to a beloved IP, because at the end of the day, all of these games are the same, and the financial pressure is such that pre-existing stories and lore are shoe-horned into FedEx and Kill Quest-driven games, which cheapens the experience immeasurably.

I'm hard-pressed to think of an example better than SWG.  That game died for true SW fans long before the NGE.  It made a laughing-stock of the existing continuity from launch.

God forbid anyone ever makes a Dune or Song of Ice and Fire mmo, they will be similar abominations when compared to the source material.

Until developers and investors tire of their directed-experience tendencies, I'd like for them to keep their greedy hands off of stories that I care about.

Originally posted by silandril

You're certainly entitled to your opinion regarding IP based MMOs. However, I believe the solution is not to lower our expectations.

My biggest MMO wish and the reason I think so many MMOs fail is actually a change in the player base from the time of MMO inception. Namely, when MMOs first arrived ( Muds then EQ1 ), the players drawn to these games were table top roleplayers ( D&D, Shadowrun, etc etc ). These folks knew that what made the games fun was character development and roleplaying--not levels, skills, linear quests but an open game world where the creative player could create his own world. As time has moved on, it seems to me that today's players don't understand or aren't interested in the true "roleplaying" aspect of online games anymore. This is unfortunate, because it takes games to a higher level. The MMO makers have adapted to this lead em by the nose mentality and dumbed down the games. All that being said, my wish is for a new level of gaming awareness of the players. SWG was the last great MMO--genuine player communities, lives within a game made it great.

I wasn't literally talking about lowering expectations. That was just an amusing photo. I was actually talking about managing expectations.

Originally posted by silandril

My biggest MMO wish and the reason I think so many MMOs fail is actually a change in the player base from the time of MMO inception. Namely, when MMOs first arrived ( Muds then EQ1 ), the players drawn to these games were table top roleplayers ( D&D, Shadowrun, etc etc ). These folks knew that what made the games fun was character development and roleplaying--not levels, skills, linear quests but an open game world where the creative player could create his own world. As time has moved on, it seems to me that today's players don't understand or aren't interested in the true "roleplaying" aspect of online games anymore. This is unfortunate, because it takes games to a higher level.

That's a great point, and a feeling that I've had for some time but haven't been able to articulate as you've done here.

Unfortunately I think the cat is out of the bag, and those days are gone.  People are addicted to the false sense of accomplishment/stimulation granted by newer games, and as a wider (i.e. less nerdy) audience has embraced mmos, the number of people wanting a world first and a game second has decreased dramatically.

I fear the only way you'll get your wish is to return to tabletop, or private roleplaying servers.

While I don't really care about #5, I agree with the rest of the article. Nicely written and very true.

my wish list is pretty simple. just one thing i want.

RETURN DAOC TO THE GLORY DAYS!!!

/pray cmon daoc2 and dont screw it up mythic.

I think the pre-sales of games to get into Beta already accomplishes your wish #7.  In theory pre-sales will give publishers a good idea about whether or not they should continue to fund the game if required, and if they're only $5, that's a lot less than the proposed $42 your 6 months of beta adds up to.

Otherwise pretty good points.

I enjoyed this article, as I like seeing others with the same idea's as myself. IP based MMO's died in my mind when I heard the development of MXO.  I mean MXO is not something that should even be thought of in a MMO universe, that's purely a FPS game that should have RPG gameplay much like Mass Effect. However, like you stated, and you probably know this first hand like myself.  We indy developers never have the funds that Studios such as Blizzard, SOE, and EA can put forth. It's saddening to think there is a massive amount of pure original idea's being wasted in indy development that ends up being canceled or distorted and never implemented to it's original purpose.

However then reality sets in, the gaming industry has taken a leap into the monopoly of the power of money.  And it's become so massive that creativity has not just yet flown out the window, but management budgets are being cut left and right so that gross revenue goals can be achieved. There are a few games that stick close to my heart that were created by indy makers and yet delivered a true original game, Funcom's "Anarchy Online" and Reakktor's "Neocron".  I'm a sucker for the sci-fi based gaming idea.  And both games certainly delivered, but yet due to budget cuts have been further development wise destroyed.  Hopefully the few new original games that I see upon the horizon such "Black Prophecy" and "Mortal Online" will prove us all wrong.

All in all though, great article, was a good read and I agree on your wish list.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by witchkiller

how are you qualified to say this:

" See, the initial instinct is to blame the developers, but the truth is that there is an intricate dance happening behind the scenes of an IP MMO between the IP holder and the developers and most of the time, it’s the IP holder that’s doing the leading if you catch my drift.

Generally speaking, the IP holder gets final say on pretty much everything about their MMO, sometimes that’s a good thing, sometimes it’s a very bad thing"

are you knowledgeable about this or are you guessing or using hearsay as you basis?

regardless, i agree with most of your post other than the bit about no more IP MMO. i think they provide alot of lore that mmo's need. people can jump into the game and if they are knowledgeable about the background, they feel more connection to it. while world of warcraft does have alot of lore behind, similar to warhammer, i've never read any of it, and from the solo play aspect of those games (questing), they are indistinguishable. now, a game like SWG, a player can get into and try to become his own version of han solo.

i do want to know if you actually know much about the interactions between developers and IP holders, or were you guessing? what did the intellectual property owners of conan do that influenced the game?

 

The IP holders do get a lot of say in the creation of a game based on their world, and they can nix any concept they don't want to exist in that world. He's not making anything up and it has come out as information in many different instances before. The truth is an IP is nice because it can bring in a sizeable audience based on name alone, but at the same time it is limiting because basic staples, like PvP, can be forced out at the IP holder discretion.

how are YOU qualified to say that?!? do you have an instance you can actually show someone so they can read it? i'm not trying to be an ass here, maybe this has happened in every mmo based from an existing franchise, but.... i can't remember any.

do you have any links? even a specific thing that you clearly remember and IP owner forcing into a game that a dev didn't want to do or had done a different way?

i reiterate my question, are you guessing or basing your opinion off hearsay? do you have any credibility on this topic or just opinion? not trying to be overly agressive here, but i am tired of posts like yours, which claim "Truth" but are full on conjecture.

My comment on the part about using established IP's: for the most part I agree with you. Champions Online is a little bit of an exception though, since they purchased the IP and are therefore free to change it if they wish.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by witchkiller

how are you qualified to say this:

" See, the initial instinct is to blame the developers, but the truth is that there is an intricate dance happening behind the scenes of an IP MMO between the IP holder and the developers and most of the time, it’s the IP holder that’s doing the leading if you catch my drift.

Generally speaking, the IP holder gets final say on pretty much everything about their MMO, sometimes that’s a good thing, sometimes it’s a very bad thing"

are you knowledgeable about this or are you guessing or using hearsay as you basis?

Well, my qualifications were pretty well spelled out for you in the sidebar of the article, but... I've been running this website for the last two uyears, and working here for four. I have worked as a developer on MMOs, and in my position, I learn about the industry and how it functions. That's my qualification.

of course i'm not attacking your credentials for wrting articles about mmos.

i was wondering how do you know what you are claiming as truth is justified. does GamesWorkShop get alot of input on warhammer? the people who own conan? does george lucas influence star wars games? what are these "very bad thing"?

i like these IP MMO games. tabula rasa...not so hot. ip mmo or not doesn't make or break a game.

Originally posted by witchkiller

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by witchkiller

how are you qualified to say this:

" See, the initial instinct is to blame the developers, but the truth is that there is an intricate dance happening behind the scenes of an IP MMO between the IP holder and the developers and most of the time, it’s the IP holder that’s doing the leading if you catch my drift.

Generally speaking, the IP holder gets final say on pretty much everything about their MMO, sometimes that’s a good thing, sometimes it’s a very bad thing"

are you knowledgeable about this or are you guessing or using hearsay as you basis?

regardless, i agree with most of your post other than the bit about no more IP MMO. i think they provide alot of lore that mmo's need. people can jump into the game and if they are knowledgeable about the background, they feel more connection to it. while world of warcraft does have alot of lore behind, similar to warhammer, i've never read any of it, and from the solo play aspect of those games (questing), they are indistinguishable. now, a game like SWG, a player can get into and try to become his own version of han solo.

i do want to know if you actually know much about the interactions between developers and IP holders, or were you guessing? what did the intellectual property owners of conan do that influenced the game?

 

The IP holders do get a lot of say in the creation of a game based on their world, and they can nix any concept they don't want to exist in that world. He's not making anything up and it has come out as information in many different instances before. The truth is an IP is nice because it can bring in a sizeable audience based on name alone, but at the same time it is limiting because basic staples, like PvP, can be forced out at the IP holder discretion.

 

how are YOU qualified to say that?!? do you have an instance you can actually show someone so they can read it? i'm not trying to be an ass here, maybe this has happened in every mmo based from an existing franchise, but.... i can't remember any.

do you have any links? even a specific thing that you clearly remember and IP owner forcing into a game that a dev didn't want to do or had done a different way?

i reiterate my question, are you guessing or basing your opinion off hearsay? do you have any credibility on this topic or just opinion? not trying to be overly agressive here, but i am tired of posts like yours, which claim "Truth" but are full on conjecture.

So nice to see people creating new accounts just to go trolling by a fresh name.
 

Originally posted by witchkiller

how are YOU qualified to say that?!? do you have an instance you can actually show someone so they can read it? i'm not trying to be an ass here, maybe this has happened in every mmo based from an existing franchise, but.... i can't remember any.

do you have any links? even a specific thing that you clearly remember and IP owner forcing into a game that a dev didn't want to do or had done a different way?

i reiterate my question, are you guessing or basing your opinion off hearsay? do you have any credibility on this topic or just opinion? not trying to be overly agressive here, but i am tired of posts like yours, which claim "Truth" but are full on conjecture.

You'll never see on the record proof of it. The official party line is always going to be: Company X (the license holder) has been great to work with. The truth is though that there are standards that have to be upheld. This is just common practice with ANY property. LucasArts, for example are notorious for being very hands-on with their products, toy, TV, comic book, video game, whatever. I know that Mythic, for example, worked very closely with Games Workshop and that Turbine works with Tolkien Enterprises, Cryptic works with CBS, the list goes on. It's a partnership between the developers and the licensers.

I agree with most of your points, but IP MMOs. IP MMOs have been some of the best games in the MMO market. Such as Star Wars Galaxies, Lord of the Rings Online, and The Matrix Online. I'm still hoping for a Transformer G1 or G.I. Joe G1 MMOs. Most IPs from  movies, books, and TV shows with two factions or more, make perfect sense to turn into a MMO.  Who would not like to live in their favorite movie, book, or TV show? I know, I've always have liked the idea.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by witchkiller

how are YOU qualified to say that?!? do you have an instance you can actually show someone so they can read it? i'm not trying to be an ass here, maybe this has happened in every mmo based from an existing franchise, but.... i can't remember any.

do you have any links? even a specific thing that you clearly remember and IP owner forcing into a game that a dev didn't want to do or had done a different way?

i reiterate my question, are you guessing or basing your opinion off hearsay? do you have any credibility on this topic or just opinion? not trying to be overly agressive here, but i am tired of posts like yours, which claim "Truth" but are full on conjecture.

You'll never see on the record proof of it. The official party line is always going to be: Company X (the license holder) has been great to work with. The truth is though that there are standards that have to be upheld. This is just common practice with ANY property. LucasArts, for example are notorious for being very hands-on with their products, toy, TV, comic book, video game, whatever. I know that Mythic, for example, worked very closely with Games Workshop and that Turbine works with Tolkien Enterprises, Cryptic works with CBS, the list goes on. It's a partnership between the developers and the licensers.

 

 

Why shouldn't they be hands on with their IPs? MMOs are just the nest step in marketing synergy.  Its a way to let cusomers experience the IPs in  new and different way. I for one see nothing wrong with it at all.

Originally posted by veritas_X

Originally posted by silandril

My biggest MMO wish and the reason I think so many MMOs fail is actually a change in the player base from the time of MMO inception. Namely, when MMOs first arrived ( Muds then EQ1 ), the players drawn to these games were table top roleplayers ( D&D, Shadowrun, etc etc ). These folks knew that what made the games fun was character development and roleplaying--not levels, skills, linear quests but an open game world where the creative player could create his own world. As time has moved on, it seems to me that today's players don't understand or aren't interested in the true "roleplaying" aspect of online games anymore. This is unfortunate, because it takes games to a higher level.

 

That's a great point, and a feeling that I've had for some time but haven't been able to articulate as you've done here.

Unfortunately I think the cat is out of the bag, and those days are gone.  People are addicted to the false sense of accomplishment/stimulation granted by newer games, and as a wider (i.e. less nerdy) audience has embraced mmos, the number of people wanting a world first and a game second has decreased dramatically.

I fear the only way you'll get your wish is to return to tabletop, or private roleplaying servers.

Yeah, I feel the same. And agreed, it was well put. Also explains why my mmo subs are down to just EvE and that just cause I can still advance without playing. Miss the community dynamic. I think the de-emphasizing of community is whats hurting the industry (imo). The way I see it is, ya a lot of current players don't care for positive player interaction, crafting, rp, community building, etc... and thats fine, but what they fail to realize is that the people who like that stuff are the kind of people who make a game fun to play in. To my way of thinking its what separates mmos (I like) from rpg's with multiplayer (not so interested in) which I think are becoming the norm.

Great article, you hit the biggest issues head on. Please devs, stop releasing unfinished, unoriginal WoW clones.

This is probably the worst article ever available on this site.

The suggested solutions are terrible ideas and several of the wishes show signs of disconnect between the writer and the community he...ugh...represents?

It might seem harsh, but that is my feeling.
 

I love some of this thinking, and it's nice to hear it coming from someone connected to the site.  I agree that a lot of the innovative stuff can come from indy companies.  In fact, one of the most promising games I'm testing at the moment is open source.  It's about people who love games making them for other gamers.  I like that mindset.  It's not corporate.  Good.  Not everything in this life needs to be about chasing the dollar.  In fact, if it is, I think we've missed something.

I also like the comments on IP games.  They have too much hype, and the expectations are hard to even come close to.  They also seem to get latched onto by the suits who just want to turn a profit ASAP, and damn the quality and customer satisfaction.

I love the idea that devs should be allowed to speak honestly about the state of the game.  Really I think a communication manager should handle that to avoid mixed messages, but honesty is the real key.  People aren't as stupid as some of the suits appear to believe.  We know, for example, when features listed on the box are not actually in the game.  We know, also, that something isn't working, even if a CSR tells us that it is.  Just be straight with people.  Don't insult their intelligence.  Doing so is a sure way to lose them, and ten of their friends, possibly for life.

About paying a reduced early bird price for a post-beta, pre-polished game, I can understand the thinking behind this.  It seems based on a premise I'm not sure I fully accept though: that games must be released in a partially functional state.  Remember when the Edsel was shipped to Ford delearships in an incomplete state?  Well even if you don't remember it, you can read about it.  Many MMOs hit the market in the same shape, and receive the same kind of reception, deservedly so.  What does this require?  Patience.

For a game to be successful in the long term, I believe it needs to be finished and polished upon release.  Long term success requires front-end investment to ensure a high level of quality.  Those that look to WoW as having some kind of winning formula should focus first, I believe, on how good the game worked at release.  Working games are fun games.  Fun games attract and retain customers.  These customers tell their friends, who then become new customers, and so on, and so on.

A successful launch of a polished game can create an avalanche of positive momentum.  A broken release, on the other hand, digs a hole that a game may never get out of (e.g. Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, StarWars Galaxies).  My wish for MMOs would be that companies take the time needed to ensure a successful release. 

You had me at hello...

I mean....the picture.

Originally posted by purewitz

I agree with most of your points, but IP MMOs. IP MMOs have been some of the best games in the MMO market. Such as Star Wars Galaxies, Lord of the Rings Online, and The Matrix Online. I'm still hoping for a Transformer G1 or G.I. Joe G1 MMOs. Most IPs from  movies, books, and TV shows with two factions or more, make perfect sense to turn into a MMO.  Who would not like to live in their favorite movie, book, or TV show? I know, I've always have liked the idea.

Just as an fyi, two of the IP MMOs you've mentioned were absolute disasters, and one's closure was recently announced as a result.  The other is having the IP given to a competitor, who will hopefully do a much better job.

IP's tie into that expectation factor I think.  They also seem to be viewed as cash cows by corporate investors, who then seem to push for an early (and broken) release to begin turning a profit as soon as they can.  Greed, impatience and hype make for poor MMO releases imo.

If someone could manage to take the time needed for a good IP release, maybe we'd see this trend shift in a more favourable direction.

<to the theme of TOTP's>

5. Making Me - CoH was the nearest I ever got to making ‘me’ and yes it was a good feeling. I loved the idea of the theme music, some games like LotR allow you to play your own though, which is close enough.

4. IP MMO’s: The wish list often wants MMO’s to sort out problems that our wider society cannot sort out, IP’s are one of them. IP’s cause these problems as books become films and so on. Increasingly you won’t get your MMO, film, or book financed without an IP behind it.

3. Big and Indie. MMO’s are in an industry, again same problems with indie films etc, nothing can be done about it.

2. MMO Expectations - We live in a Age of Hype. It is everywhere from politics to MMO’s. Nothing negative must ever be said about our product be it a new tax or new MMO. MMO’s are not going to be able to make a stand here, how could they?

1. Beta’s and Launch - I liked the idea of a reduced starter subscription, but can see problems when the company announces the subscription is going up. No matter how much more ‘polishing’ has been done.