Typically great article, Sanya.  It's nice to see insight into the industry.  Seems very much like the travel or general marketing industries - maybe a bit geekier. :D  One particular paragraph stands out to me:

"Beyond all of that, there is the basic fact that without a great deal of effort, people at the top of any field lose touch with the things that made them great. The first to go is usually empathy for ordinary people, which unfortunately makes up the bulk of the potential customers and employees – all people who rely on you to care. Perspective goes next, because of the all encompassing bubble of pleasant sounding people who avoid confronting you. Creative thinking goes at some point, or at least the proof of it, because risks cannot be taken with millions of dollars of other peoples’ money. And one’s sense of fun disappears when someone is isolated, which is just death to a game maker. But simple things stop being enjoyable, until finally “fun” is limited to things beyond the range or experience of the average gamer."

This made complete sense to me and explained a ton, right up until the last sentence.  Just looking at what has been released over the past 5 years, "fun" is definitely limited, but at least to me not at all beyond anyone's range or experience.  Quite the opposite, actually.  The average gamer, at least in the eyes of today's developers, is a 17-year-old boy who never emotionally matured past age 8.  Instant gratification is rampant, and appears to be the result of a combination of people whining about the "grind" and random focus groups who are merely asked "So, would you like something nice later, or would you like it now?" and are rarely, if ever, shown the complete package objectively.  While I don't think games should necessarily be designed to make calculus seem like Candy Land, it'd be nice if some of these designers would come down from their clouds you so eloquently described them on, get back to their roots, and maybe take a look at what people who actually have disposable income and a modicum of intelligence enjoy.

It's not quite true we never get asked to sign autographs.  I've signed a number of them for fans.  One time some Meridian 59 fans spotted me at a Dave and Busters (restaurant and high end arcade) and bought me a drink.  The funny part is I was standing next to Raph Koster, a much bigger MMO "celebrity" than I am, and they didn't notice him. :)

As far as our celebrity being limited, it's not necessarily accurate.  Movie and TV stars are much more recognizable because their faces are part of our entertainment.  Even some of the creatives get recognized because of the filming of documentaries and special features.  We don't have the same things in the game industry to that extent, but I'm sure people like John Romero and Raph Koster get recognized because of their high profile.  But, for the most part, I don't think it's fair to look at movie and TV stars and say game developers aren't famous because we're not as recognizable as they are.

Sounds like the MMO business is no different from any other business.

Originally posted by Sanya

Originally posted by Teiman

What you comment in this article, methinks is private to these people, and sould not be commented publicy in a website.

but thats me.. 

 

I can promise you this - there are no statements in that entire article that apply to one single individual. What I said applies, for better or for worse, to multiple people. And I'm told that the same is true across many industries, which vaguely depresses me.

People are broken. And people are magnificent, too. Usually the same people are both, if that makes sense.

It's true. I, for one, am magnificentally broken.

And I liked this article.

Originally posted by Teiman

What you comment in this article, methinks is private to these people, and sould not be commented publicy in a website.

but thats me.. 

I agree. A lot of it really seemed like it was referring to specific incidents and specific people.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Teiman

What you comment in this article, methinks is private to these people, and sould not be commented publicy in a website.

but thats me.. 

 

I agree. A lot of it really seemed like it was referring to specifric incidents and specific people.

I'm just curious if Sanya was the girl misled by the "lead designer".

Originally posted by Sanya

People are broken. And people are magnificent, too. Usually the same people are both, if that makes sense.

This describes much of humanity well, but in particular, the nerd.

Is it the nerds who can overcome their social retardation, or the better socialized people coming to grips with the finer workings of mmos, who make the most progress in the industry?

Originally posted by badgerer

Originally posted by Sanya

People are broken. And people are magnificent, too. Usually the same people are both, if that makes sense.

 

This describes much of humanity well, but in particular, the nerd.

 

Is it the nerds who can overcome their social retardation, or the better socialized people coming to grips with the finer workings of mmos, who make the most progress in the industry?

On this note, & most importantly, is that really you in the pic on pg 1 Sanya? Cause ur a real hawtie tottie ya know chickee-babe! >;-)

And who's the lucky nerd in the picture with you? (checks over shoulder to see if Mrs is about *blush*)

Originally posted by Nostromo21

Originally posted by badgerer

Originally posted by Sanya

People are broken. And people are magnificent, too. Usually the same people are both, if that makes sense.

 

This describes much of humanity well, but in particular, the nerd.

 

Is it the nerds who can overcome their social retardation, or the better socialized people coming to grips with the finer workings of mmos, who make the most progress in the industry?

 

On this note, & most importantly, is that really you in the pic on pg 1 Sanya? Cause ur a real hawtie tottie ya know chickee-babe! >;-)

And who's the lucky nerd in the picture with you? (checks over shoulder to see if Mrs is about *blush*)

No, that was "Jon and Kate Plus 8". You know, the dumbasses who exploited their 8 children so they could be rich and then go through a divorce on t.v.

Originally posted by Zorvan

No, that was "Jon and Kate Plus 8". You know, the dumbasses who exploited their 8 children so they could be rich and then go through a divorce on t.v.

Dang :( *sniff*. Can we get some glamour pics anyway Sanya? *wink*

(oh yeah, great article btw ;)

Originally posted by Sanya

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Wait. So, would we (and by "we" I mean forum goers, game players) fall into that "anoymous dillweed" category for the things we say about them? Cause I have done so on more than a few occaisions (stating that they've lost touch with the spark that created this genre, etc...an example can be found here that I wrote today.) If so, don't get me wrong, I'm not upset at being called a dillweed (been called much worse, lol!!), I just don't put my real name out there because of you never know when something you write will piss someone off enough that they come after you. Sure, I have 8 years Army behind me and my home is a miniature armory, but have you ever tried to clean blood out of a carpet?

That and I don't think most of my jabs are hidden, lol.

 

No, and I'm not explaining myself well.

Right now, on several forums, there are people posting under newly created identities just to make cheap shots at someone they don't know, and they've made no effort to talk to anyone informed. That's a dillweed.

People who say "die in a fire" over a video game in any sense but an ironic one are dillweeds.

But I don't think an observation counts as dillweed behavior. And I clearly don't think using a forum handle is in and of itself dillweed behavior, although it is often a contributing factor.

I do think that if you are part of the game industry, you have a responsibility to identify yourself as such, either by affiliation or by your actual name. But plenty of people that I love and respect feel differently about this, and I don't claim to be walking the one true path or anything. For myself, I have made a point for the last eight years of using some variation of my real name everywhere that I post, and if I'm posting on behalf of a studio, then I use "NameOfProduct RealName" as my handle. Just so everyone knows where and for what I stand.

I didn't always feel that way, but I like to think I learned from my youthful idiocy.

Thank for the reply. Would have replied sooner but went camping shortly later Friday.

Cool, that cleared it up for me. Sometimes, though, I wish the internet was wired so that you had to use your real name and information. I bet it would cut down on alot of the garbage that gets thrown up by people hiding behind that shield of anonymity.

Good article, but I'm going to have to disagree with the idea that there's no end for some of these guy's careers . That's not just wishfull thinking either!  It's a small industry, and the lack of competition for leadership is the sole factor keeping them on top. 

Managing artists is an art in itself, but knowing a good idea when you hear it from a subordinate isn't about having some magical leaderships skills, it's about not having your head in your ass and actually doing your job and listening.  How many game saving ideas have these guys ignored?  How many of these guys even come close to matching the dedication and effort of the artist's and programmers on their team?  How could they, without cutting into their golf/dirtbike/whiskey/spaceship time?  Who would ever trust these jackasses with a multi million dollar project after seeing them fail again repeatedly?   

Personality might get them the job, but only results matter to the players.  A product that stands out as exceptional is almost always the result of a good team effort, but a product that flops is almost always the result of bad management.  MMO customers will always remember the flops first, I promise. 

 Chuckle - so a couple of leaders of the gaming industry took a gander at yur piece, Sanya. I bet they scoured your words nervously to make sure you weren't blackmailing em from a past developer event ..

j/k Keep up the good work

Originally posted by lilune666

A product that stands out as exceptional is almost always the result of a good team effort, but a product that flops is almost always the result of bad management.  MMO customers will always remember the flops first, I promise. 

the game industry is deep down no different than any other trade I've worked in - the old adage "you're only as good as your last project" ring true, and it's human nature to remember the bad over the good, you can have 8 days of blazing sunshine and only bleat on about the fact it rained for 2 days straight. I do find however that "geekdom" for want of a better word is often more forgiving of the flops if you'vealready proven you can do great things.
 

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Teiman

What you comment in this article, methinks is private to these people, and sould not be commented publicy in a website.

but thats me.. 

 

I agree. A lot of it really seemed like it was referring to specific incidents and specific people.

And so what? These specific people screwed up so bad, that it's worth mentioning.

These specific people are the CLASSIC example of how a person reaches a typical FAKE celebrity status (or think he/she has reached it) and starts walking next to his/her shoes, only to fall flat on his/her face a short while later.

Most annoying thing today is tho. That there is still one person out there, who doesn't seem to be able to fall. A person so many want to see go down so bad and yet remains.

Cheers

Nice read as always, Sanya. Greetings!

Originally posted by Itoao

Originally posted by Sanya

Originally posted by Teiman

What you comment in this article, methinks is private to these people, and sould not be commented publicy in a website.

but thats me.. 

 

I can promise you this - there are no statements in that entire article that apply to one single individual. What I said applies, for better or for worse, to multiple people. And I'm told that the same is true across many industries, which vaguely depresses me.

People are broken. And people are magnificent, too. Usually the same people are both, if that makes sense.

 

Ok, I really enjoy your articles. Sometimes the posts even more. I think I may have to steal that one. If someone said it please let me know.

People are broken. And people are magnificent, too. Usually the same people are both, if that makes sense.

 

Gotta Love it!

I also fell in love with that quotation and I am also wondering if there is any origin to it.

What makes Dilbert, The Office (I prefer the UK version though the US one has its moments), and other business-life-based comedies so endearing is how the jokes have such a ring of truth to them. After working for several companies that have transitioned from small businesses to large corporations (and now consult for businesses that run across the spectrum), I can say from personal experience that even the most outlandish jokes in entertainment pale in comparison to what really happens.

The "geek" culture of MMO development houses is just transitioning to the "middle-management" culture of corporations.

It's a sad thing to see happen to any business, but until executions of middle-management become legal (ah, but the glory of the Roman Empire is long gone) it's inevitable for any growing business.

-w

The truth is that the people who sit atop a large game or company do deserve the majority of the blame when things go wrong. They make all the final decisions, and in the case that there are others who make the final decisions they are the ones who picked and hired the other decision makers. It's the same as every other type of company.

They have to balance the fine line of giving the employees enough freedom to do something great, but enough restriction to make sure it all follows the same vision and works together wonderfully. In the end it all gets traced back up to that top guy and what policies/decisions he made over the design and implementation time. It's his fault if he was persuaded by the guy who was determined to get a certain feature in that failed miserably, and his fault if he didn't allow in a feature that might of made the game a huge success.

I'm not saying it's easy but in the end it is his fault and his bad leadership (I use he through all this because everyone listed in the article was a guy).

A hard article to read.  Even with the many drafts, it feels so very raw.

People on both sides of the curtain are far too human sometimes.

Sonya - your articles are always good to read and give good insight to the gaming industry.

Someone else already stated that "Celebrity" status is attained by repeated success in the eyes of the users.  Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, Steven Spielburg, ect. did not become famous with just one movie.  They became famous after years of acting and/or directing movies.  When the "BIG" names in gaming reach that pinnacle in thier career they will very possibly have the poveratsy(sp?) chasing them with the same vigor as they chase the big movie stars, and for the same reasons - Dirty Laundry.

The MMO workplace sounds exactly like every other workplace that I have ever had the displeasure of going to, except for one thing; most people in the gaming industry joined not because they just had to have a job, but instead because they dreamed of creating games or being part of the process of creating games.  If those employees dont enjoy what they are doing then its a reasonable probability that the people who play the game are not going to enjoy what the unhappy employee created.

Short to say, my last job was working in a company that created medical equipment and supplies.  My boss was caught screwing his bosses (Sr Director of Supply) secretary in his bosses personnal conference room during lunch.  A guy two offices down from my office  hung himself when the divorce papers came in the office mail from his wife - apparently when he called home his wife had left a message letting him know that she was going to rake him over the coals and press for full custody of thier 3 children.  Icing on the cake, in the packing warehouse, we had a father and daughter working packing boxes.  The father had to be arrested and removed from the premises when he found out his daughter was pregnant with the baby of another of thier coworkers.  This all happened in a six month timeframe.  FUN FUN FUN..... but most those people worked thier jobs not because they had a dream of working that type of job, but because thats the type of job they could get with thier educational levels; they all pretty much hated thier jobs.

Well I must admit that I have read your posts in the past as a passing interest. This article comes across to me that you are a little pissed at alot of people. Maybe you should be the one to take a year off and practice those smiling exercises?

I come from a TV and Theatre background where things are similar yet unfold in the background, and at least we have the decency to keep them in the background!

This is by no means a personal stab mind you. I just think you had a bad day and need to vent more before posting articles, otherwise you'll become a victim to those statements.

As far as I am concerned though, this article was a simple rant, so just like those MMO dicks you mention, who cares all I want is a good damn MMO to play and see someone actually fix those errors rather than playing the schoolyard blame game.

God, no wonder people leave these MMO's soon after the game reaches retail. Get back to making real games that work and if you're one of those dicks with wads, keep it in your pants and show us your money, stick it in your mouth and give us what we want. What else are you gonna do with it, spend it?

Well as for my money, I'm keeping it until something descent comes out, hype isn't worth it, end game for me!

Originally posted by skintrade

Originally posted by lilune666

A product that stands out as exceptional is almost always the result of a good team effort, but a product that flops is almost always the result of bad management.  MMO customers will always remember the flops first, I promise. 

the game industry is deep down no different than any other trade I've worked in - the old adage "you're only as good as your last project" ring true, and it's human nature to remember the bad over the good, you can have 8 days of blazing sunshine and only bleat on about the fact it rained for 2 days straight. I do find however that "geekdom" for want of a better word is often more forgiving of the flops if you'vealready proven you can do great things.
 

No, I don't think geekdom is forgiving.  My counter to your observation is Jeff Freeman.  He did great work on SWG, with its launch and Jedi instilation but he will forever be remebered as the creator of the NGE.

RIP Jeff,

Your troubles are done.

Nice article.  Interesting read.

I can't help but think how heartbreaking it's gotta be for developers to see an MMO they've worked on for years crash and burn.  And to add salt to the wounds you have a plethora of people online posting hateful things, often personally insulting the creators. 

A thought provoking and well written "take" on the industry from the inside that seeks a commonality -- a "thread" to obtain answers that thinking MMO hobbyists seek.

Of course, the title says it all, really.  There is no "End Game" -- no "magic bullet" to explain away all the issues for all the problems and failures.  Except one.  For all of them (the latest put out to pasture is Mark Jacobs) -- it was time for them to go.