Originally posted by Syno23

For most people who have tried out the Chinese or Korean beta or retail version, we have this huge grind beginning at level 20. It's not a grind where you kill monsters over and over again, but a grind where you have to do the same quest over and over again. What a drag...how boring.

Level 50 can take weeks or months for the casual.

We all know know the  Warhammer Online  scenario grind, the Aion quest grind, the Age of Conan level 70 to 80 Death  Master's Camp grind, Final Fantasy XI's level 12 to 75 grind. But, Aion has something next-gen.....

....at last version update 1.3....will have:

A. Battle-shugos

- This is supposed to be a fun leveling instance for people still stuck in the leveling stage of Aion. This instance will be designed like a ship with evolved Shugos that are hostile to the players.This instance is designed with casual players in mind and will contain many quests.

(Source: http://www.aionsource.com/forum/news-announcements/16696-content-update-1-3-semi-official-content-news.html)

Yup, NCSoft is working hard to rid the grind that is killing us all is these stereotype Asian Grinders.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I would HARDLY compare Aion's grind to FF11's. FF 11's was way worse, way, way, waaaaaaay worse.

And every single MMO out there has grinds. WoW has more grinds than a lot of games, they just don't involve leveling. Rep grinds, honor grind, arena point grind, repetitive dungeon and raid grinds, profession grinds. A grind is just a word that has come to mean something that you 'do', but it isn't fun.

I found the leveling in Aion to be fairly fun and not much different than that of WoW. Granted I only did it up to 38 on a gladiator, but still. At times it felt like a bit of a grind, but then again it wasn't much different than WoW, in fact I'd say that Aion gave me fewer moments like that than WoW ever did while leveling.

The stereotypical Asian grinder is dead folks, they don't exist anymore. The only ones still around are ones that are left-overs from 2003 and earlier, or they're f2p's, but ALL f2p's are like that for the most part. The Asian gamer doesn't enjoy level grinds like that anymore than western gamers do.

yeah i've played chinese and korean both and the "Grind" isn't as bad as people make it out. its lil slower lvling is all, but alot haven't played any pre-wow games so they don't know what a grind can be..lol but like others said wow honestly has more grind than anything. rep grind is just a retarded idea, some of those reps took longer to get than it did to reach the lvl to even start doing the quest.

Originally posted by Wolfenpride

The longer the grind, the longer the reason to play.

Once you reach the cap, the game is pretty much near over with.

That's why they call it "endgame"

By your reasoning, developers should just make the entire game about grinding with no level cap and then every player that signs up will never leave.

If you only play to get to end game then I say quit playing MMORPG's because that is just sad.  I mean play a game that starts at end game and quit wasting your life.

Originally posted by ProfRed

If you only play to get to end game then I say quit playing MMORPG's because that is just sad.  I mean play a game that starts at end game and quit wasting your life.

So then you recognize that grinding is just a waste of my time?

I'm glad you're here to tell me these things.

The quest grind by many recent MMO's is no different than the mob grind from games like EQ and L2.    I'm getting pretty sick of quest grind games myself. 

People who talk about grind on these forums have no idea what grind is.

Aion is  story based MMO, Progression will take time, but beyond that there is no grind. The only way you are going to think the game is a grind is if you dont like the story.

Originally posted by Kuatosune

It's really only a grind if you're not having any fun... imo

Agreed, honestly i can stand to lvl anymore WoW characters because it's not fun. Aion will be a new game so leveling will not be a problem for most ppl, like me, who want to explore as much content as possible while leveling and finding out what there is in the game, not just go up each level finding mobs kill em all grind it out. sure its fast but, nothing new comes your way. plus, you'll be one of the few ppl who will actually kno where things are at so all your friends or people in game  will be asking you, "dude...where is this place?"

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

People who talk about grind on these forums have no idea what grind is.

 

Aion is  story based MMO, Progression will take time, but beyond that there is no grind. The only way you are going to think the game is a grind is if you dont like the story.

That's actually is quite not true. Just because you have a main campaign does not make an MMO story based. The main campaign in AION is not the main focus of the game. It was designed/implemented very simple and does not offer much story telling at all. Age of Conan offerred more story telling than that in Tortage main quest line. FFXI offerred way more story telling than that with its mission lines. WOTLK offerred more story telling than that with the Death Knight quest line and Northend quest line.

Depends on what version the US will be getting, you will see more or less grinding. Here is the chart posted here in this forum a while ago for AION version 1.0x. You decide if it was a grind or not.

Originally posted by Thachsanh

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

People who talk about grind on these forums have no idea what grind is.

 

Aion is  story based MMO, Progression will take time, but beyond that there is no grind. The only way you are going to think the game is a grind is if you dont like the story.

 

That's actually is quite not true. Just because you have a main campaign does not make an MMO story based. The main campaign in AION is not the main focus of the game. It was designed/implemented very simple and does not offer much story telling at all. Age of Conan offerred more story telling than that in Tortage main quest line. FFXI offerred way more story telling than that with its mission lines. WOTLK offerred more story telling than that with the Death Knight quest line and Northend quest line.

Depends on what version the US will be getting, you will see more or less grinding. Here is the chart posted here in this forum a while ago for AION version 1.0x. You decide if it was a grind or not.

1.0, doesn't include abyss quests and doesn't include missions. That chart is simply wrong.

Originally posted by Ephimero

1.0, doesn't include abyss quests and doesn't include missions. That chart is simply wrong.

Like I said, it really depends on what version you are getting you will have more or less grind. That chart is only for 1.0x. NCSoft since then has been trying to cover the gap.  It's getting better in the last version but saying AION is an story base MMO and there's no grind only progression is just simply naive or misinformed.

Originally posted by Snievan

Originally posted by ProfRed

If you only play to get to end game then I say quit playing MMORPG's because that is just sad.  I mean play a game that starts at end game and quit wasting your life.

So then you recognize that grinding is just a waste of my time?

I'm glad you're here to tell me these things.

There are those of us who actually like progression, I don't mean insane L2 level progression but what Aion offers is a nice middle ground. Not everyone plays the same while you may want only the end game and get as fast as possible some people don't care about the endgame and just enjoy going through the levels, quests and story. Enjoying the journey so to speak.

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by Snievan

Originally posted by ProfRed

If you only play to get to end game then I say quit playing MMORPG's because that is just sad.  I mean play a game that starts at end game and quit wasting your life.

So then you recognize that grinding is just a waste of my time?

I'm glad you're here to tell me these things.

 

There are those of us who actually like progression, I don't mean insane L2 level progression but what Aion offers is a nice middle ground. Not everyone plays the same while you may want only the end game and get as fast as possible some people don't care about the endgame and just enjoy going through the levels, quests and story. Enjoying the journey so to speak.

Well we could just get rid of all the content 1-49 and make 5min to get to 50.  Is that seriously what people want?

I'm having fun lower levels because there's actually stuff to do, outdoor dungeons, group and raid bosses (looks like the soloable named/bosses end at 20).  In a lot of games it's normally just quest/grind to get to certain dungeons and then to cap level.  I'm actually enjoying the middle ground, not to mention the PvP all the way through to make it interesting.

Originally posted by Vallkyra

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by Snievan

Originally posted by ProfRed

If you only play to get to end game then I say quit playing MMORPG's because that is just sad.  I mean play a game that starts at end game and quit wasting your life.

So then you recognize that grinding is just a waste of my time?

I'm glad you're here to tell me these things.

 

There are those of us who actually like progression, I don't mean insane L2 level progression but what Aion offers is a nice middle ground. Not everyone plays the same while you may want only the end game and get as fast as possible some people don't care about the endgame and just enjoy going through the levels, quests and story. Enjoying the journey so to speak.

Well we could just get rid of all the content 1-49 and make 5min to get to 50.  Is that seriously what people want?

 

It seems that way more and more these days.  People can't be bothered to play a game - they just want to get to endgame so they can stand around. /boggle I mean, look at the progression of games as they get farther along their life cycle - DAoC added /level so people wouldn't have to go through the "pain" of leveling through the low levels.  EQ is releasing a 51/50 server.  In WoW, they've made leveling so easy that it is not even a second thought.

I remember in EQ, leveling was an accomplishment.  It was fun to grind out those levels - and when you walked by, people said "Oooh, there's a level xx".  People seem to forget that the grind (whether its exp or quests or reputation or gear) is what the game is all about.  The same people that complain about grind are the same people that burn their way to 50 then bitch about having nothing to do.  Well, you missed the game.  You're too concerned with being the first level 50, the first 50 assassin, the first to get some sort of gear, to enjoy the game.  Granted, some people may enjoy that more than anything, but don't ask "where's the game"?  when you've blown through it.

As someone else posted in this thread, the game doesn't start at endgame.  Some great aspects may kick in once you get to endgame, but you're forgetting the 1-49 levels that the devs worked hard to create, balance and attune to a storyline.  You're just passing through those, grinding your teeth saying, "Endgame better be great because this game will suck otherwise," completely oblivious of the beautiful world around you, and everything to do -except- hit endgame.

Originally posted by Vallkyra

 I'm actually enjoying the middle ground, not to mention the PvP all the way through to make it interesting.

PVP all the way through is only fun if its pplat or around your lvl, but like every game you're gonna have the losers who jsut HAVE TO gank and grief on lowbies to feel better about themselves, cuz they indeed suck at PVP themselves.

Originally posted by Alxgranger

Originally posted by Vallkyra

 I'm actually enjoying the middle ground, not to mention the PvP all the way through to make it interesting.

 

PVP all the way through is only fun if its pplat or around your lvl, but like every game you're gonna have the losers who jsut HAVE TO gank and grief on lowbies to feel better about themselves, cuz they indeed suck at PVP themselves.

Indeed, I got to see some of this in the CN Retail, but in our version they will have put in anti griefing methods that punishes you everytime you pick on someone 5? or 10? levels under you.  Keep doing it and you'll lose spawn points in enemy realms and be weakened to the point they'll kill you easily.  Think of it as a PvP based rez sickness related to griefing.

To be completely honest, I think grinding sometimes can help a game and community.  I look at the old days of EQ.  Very few classes could solo effeciently, there werent many quests, and the main source of leveling was to group and grind certain monsters or camps. 

I think what they did with EQ was real good.  Leveling was extremely slow, but getting items for your current level actualy lasted and was worth getting.  Not like wow where the weapon you just found is outdated and no good 30 minutes later when your already 2 levels higher.  When you had to group to level you actualy got to know your group, chat and have a good time.  I certainly didnt mind sitting in the same spot with a group of friends for 4 hours killing the same Tigers/birds/rhinos/etc. 

Today, you find a group for an instance, its over in under 30mins and thats it.  Usualy if you die, someones a newb, leaves group etc etc.  I cant count the amount of times ive done 25man VoA Emalon with a Pug and after the first wipe 10 people leave.  What they need to do is make grinding worthwhile like EQ did.  For anyone that doesnt know what im talking about.  EQ had many camps and zones where you could sit and grind with a group and farm a named monster that could spawn for GREAT loot for your current level.   Leveling took MUCH longer then anything in wow.  I remember it taking about 8 hours or more at the Sarnak Fort to go from about 24 to 25.  There were 50 levels at that time. 

So my point is,  games like WoW made it way to easy to level has ruined what true MMOs should be like.  Grinding really isnt bad if its done correctly.  Now i dont mind Solo play,  but like EQ it should be far slower and more difficult to do.  Id rather Grind then do millions of pointless quests.

Originally posted by sbfbeef

To be completely honest, I think grinding sometimes can help a game and community.  I look at the old days of EQ.  Very few classes could solo effeciently, there werent many quests, and the main source of leveling was to group and grind certain monsters or camps.

Sounds like a horrible and extremely limiting gaming experience.

Originally posted by sbfbeef

To be completely honest, I think grinding sometimes can help a game and community.  I look at the old days of EQ.  Very few classes could solo effeciently, there werent many quests, and the main source of leveling was to group and grind certain monsters or camps. 

I think what they did with EQ was real good.  Leveling was extremely slow, but getting items for your current level actualy lasted and was worth getting.  Not like wow where the weapon you just found is outdated and no good 30 minutes later when your already 2 levels higher.  When you had to group to level you actualy got to know your group, chat and have a good time.  I certainly didnt mind sitting in the same spot with a group of friends for 4 hours killing the same Tigers/birds/rhinos/etc. 

Today, you find a group for an instance, its over in under 30mins and thats it.  Usualy if you die, someones a newb, leaves group etc etc.  I cant count the amount of times ive done 25man VoA Emalon with a Pug and after the first wipe 10 people leave.  What they need to do is make grinding worthwhile like EQ did.  For anyone that doesnt know what im talking about.  EQ had many camps and zones where you could sit and grind with a group and farm a named monster that could spawn for GREAT loot for your current level.   Leveling took MUCH longer then anything in wow.  I remember it taking about 8 hours or more at the Sarnak Fort to go from about 24 to 25.  There were 50 levels at that time. 

So my point is,  games like WoW made it way to easy to level has ruined what true MMOs should be like.  Grinding really isnt bad if its done correctly.  Now i dont mind Solo play,  but like EQ it should be far slower and more difficult to do.  Id rather Grind then do millions of pointless quests.

You should play EQ now. It's drastically different. Leveling in EQ now is pretty quick before level 50. Game is still a blast though, especially with the better UI.

So far in aion I never had to ''just go kill shit mindlessly to level my toon'' . I have leveled by quests mostly which opens up the story arch of whats going on in the lands, of course one could just kill shit to level, but why would they want too, theres always a reason to kill shit and a story behind what yer doing, this is why I love Aion so far.

Originally posted by sbfbeef

...So my point is,  games like WoW made it way to easy to level has ruined FOR ME what true MMOs should be like...

Talking in absolutes is fun, eh?  Grind can be ok if it is made to feel necessary for the concept/storyline of the game.  You kill a certain number of the enemy, you are contributing to the war effort.  If you kill a certain number of vermin, you are protecting travelers in the forest, or you are collecting ingredients for a potion.  If the stuff you are killing is a challenge(ie NOT boars), that works. 

Grind for sheer leveling is only if you are someone who sits in front of the comp playing the game 6-10 hours a day, 5-7 hours a week, with a bad skin condition and belly cheese/anorexic build("LIVE TO WIN!  YEAH!").  Other people, the casual players who are 99.9 percent of the gamers(read: not you), prefer to feel like they are a part of a world or journey.  Grinding to level is not fun unless you are ADHD, in which case, you have my sympathies.  If a person wants grind, they can go into data entry or one of a jillion other jobs.

Of course, that is my opinion, not an absolute.  OT, I don't see grind in Aion, and from what I have seen from the Korean/Chinese players, they have added more quests/plot lines to eliminate the grinding aspect.  I'm not afraid of any grind in this game.  They have done a good job of making all the quests/missions feel relevant rather than work.  After all, a game is made for us to have fun, right?

i played wow for 4 years, It took me 3 weeks to hit max level in WoW when it first came out... but 4 months just to finish my teir 1 set, and 2 months alone doing black rock just to get dal rends.

I played lineage for 3 years, same time as i played wow, took me 2 years to get to level 70, never really hit max level in lineage 2, wasnt a need too, i could still do everything, siege, pvp, party, etc.

SO whats teh real difference? Everyone is obsessed with getting to the max level as fast as possible, but the only reason to want to do that is to be able to take part in everything the game offers. If you can party , pvp and rvr in the abyss around lets say, 25, will you still be in a rush to grind to max level, is your goal to play the game or to see how fast you can blow through the content?

The only time you should be concerned about the grind is, if there is another expansion coming out that improves on the end game and yous till havent made it to the endgame yet.

It's numbing to see how many people, instead of playing the game, want to spend tens or hundreds of hours on one monotonous task that anyone who could slide their face across the keyboard could accomplish.

And you guys actually call this shit content. 

I guess I'm unique in this thread in that I don't believe that I should be required to do a chore before I'm able to access what I already paid money for.

As long as the gameplay is fun and I'm enjoing the game, then nope not scared of the grind.

re Snievan: several people, including me, said that.  You are not a unique snowflake.