Originally posted by mklinic

 

As I said, it all comes down to what a person is willing to accept. Most people were unwilling to accept the NGE. We see many people unwilling to accept the recent news from AV. However, when WoW decided to allow transfers from PvE to PvP servers (despite promises at one point that they would not), we heard some complaints, but overall, people were willing to accept it. This is an example of a company who had a good idea of what there playerbase wanted and would tolerate and made a move based on the fact they could likely retain and attract more then they lost. So there are three examples that hopefully provide some anecdotal perspective.

That said, I'm not really sure how your example has any bearing on the conversation. What was the better alternative AV offered? A player can either spend money or wait and spend money with undisclosed limitations (aside from the whole no gear transfer) if their desire is to play on NA1. Wow, with all those options, one has to be the clear winner right?

Back to my original point which you went out of your way to not address; players don't kill games. I have to assume we agree on that since you did not choose to address that point and that what my main point of contention to your previous posts.

ok
 

1. WoW might have great customer service and fantastic dev relationships with players but speaking personally I think the game looks like a cartoon and I wouldnt play it regardless of how good the customer service is. This is where I am coming from that the ACTUAL GAME ITSELF is more important to me that the PR or dev to player realtionship or even the company. But, hey, I am odd that way.

2. A lot of complainers (which may or may not be you in this context) really dont care what the reason is for the broken promise. They have zero intrest in learning that maybe the promise was broken becuase it was discovered that it was not possible or that maybe a better idea is being explored. Not sure if that is your angle or not but a promise broken just becuase its a promise doesnt mean ANYTHING to me.

ADDED:  alot of players in the community seem to not really be all that intrested in games themsevles. They are however intrested in teh companies that create that games. Speaking personally

I would never play WoW no matter how good the customer service is becuase the game itself doesnt appeal to me.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

ok
 

1. WoW might have great customer service and fantastic dev relationships with players but speaking personally I think the game looks like a cartoon and I wouldnt play it regardless of how good the customer service is. This is where I am coming from that the ACTUAL GAME ITSELF is more important to me that the PR or dev to player realtionship or even the company. But, hey, I am odd that way.

2. A lot of complainers (which may or may not be you in this context) really dont care what the reason is for the broken promise. They have zero intrest in learning that maybe the promise was broken becuase it was discovered that it was not possible or that maybe a better idea is being explored. Not sure if that is your angle or not but a promise broken just becuase its a promise doesnt mean ANYTHING to me.

1.) This is not a discussion of WoW being good or bad. It was anecdotal evidence of three different games that made three different changes and how those changes were received and handled. So, of the people that enjoyed DF, a number have raised issues with the current situation. Of the number who played SWG, a number raised took issue with the implementaion of the NGE and xPac sale preceeding it. Of the number who played WoW, the change was generally well received. What does any of that have to do with whether you like WoW?

2.) See previous two times where I said "it all comes down to what a person is willing to accept." Those same people would have quit WoW or SWG given the scenarios presented for those games. They do not however kill the game as the publisher is the one who incited them to leave.

And, once again, your post screams "me, me, me" when you are critcizing others for making a decision based on their personal opinions. Why is yours any more valid? People make decisions on their personal thresholds and motives.

nevah ! The game is garbage

some people these days are willing to pay for betas and patches advertised as expansions, go figure.

Originally posted by mklinic

 

1.) This is not a discussion of WoW being good or bad. It was anecdotal evidence of three different games that made three different changes and how those changes were received and handled. So, of the people that enjoyed DF, a number have raised issues with the current situation. Of the number who played SWG, a number raised took issue with the implementaion of the NGE and xPac sale preceeding it. Of the number who played WoW, the change was generally well received. What does any of that have to do with whether you like WoW?

2.) See previous two times where I said "it all comes down to what a person is willing to accept." Those same people would have quit WoW or SWG given the scenarios presented for those games. They do not however kill the game as the publisher is the one who incited them to leave.

And, once again, your post screams "me, me, me" when you are critcizing others for making a decision based on their personal opinions. Why is yours any more valid? People make decisions on their personal thresholds and motives.

1. everyone who posts (including yourself) is posting their personal view point on something and is therefore a "me me me"  post exactly like mine. The only difference with mine is I usually point out things like "I think this game is bad" instead of the more common post of "this game IS bad" (which is a view point posted as a fact)

2. I am also using WoW  "as an example" to make my point that if the game itself is not good, no amount of good customer serivice is going to attract me (oh sorry....I mean "players") to the game.

3. "willing to accept" well yeah, your exactly right. To bad for them, I am lucky I make it simple, play games I like, dont play games I dont like.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

1. everyone who posts (including yourself) is posting their personal view point on something and is therefore a "me me me"  post exactly like mine. The only difference with mine is I usually point out things like "I think this game is bad" instead of the more common post of "this game IS bad" (which is a view point posted as a fact)

2. I am also using WoW  "as an example" to make my point that if the game itself is not good, no amount of good customer serivice is going to attract me (oh sorry....I mean "players") to the game.

3. "willing to accept" well yeah, your exactly right. To bad for them, I am lucky I make it simple, play games I like, dont play games I dont like.

1. Fair enough that you see it that way. Funny thing is that many people actually speak from experience while you openly state you have very little. Others speak based on principles when you openly admit you have very few. And yet you present yourself as knowing so much better then everyone while calling others losers.

2. Once again, nowhere in there have I said DF was bad or WoW was good as far as the game goes. If you want to get hung up on those specifics then your neglecting the actual topic.

3. Again, good for you, but that somehow allows you to label those other people as "losers". Reminds me of the mother watching their kid in the marching band "All those other kids are out of step except mine".

We can certainly go back and forth all day and not get anywhere though. My original point stands. You are not longer speaking to it and, as a result, I don't really see a reason to continue. If you still believe players kill games, despite your later statements that they dont have such power, then I will be happy to continue the discussion. Until then, you get to stamp your feet and get the last word again since that is the game you seem to like to play.

Originally posted by mklinic

 

1. Fair enough that you see it that way. Funny thing is that many people actually speak from experience while you openly state you have very little. Others speak based on principles when you openly admit you have very few. And yet you present yourself as knowing so much better then everyone while calling others losers.

2. Once again, nowhere in there have I said DF was bad or WoW was good as far as the game goes. If you want to get hung up on those specifics then your neglecting the actual topic.

3. Again, good for you, but that somehow allows you to label those other people as "losers". Reminds me of the mother watching their kid in the marching band "All those other kids are out of step except mine".

We can certainly go back and forth all day and not get anywhere though. My original point stands. You are not longer speaking to it and, as a result, I don't really see a reason to continue. If you still believe players kill games, despite your later statements that they dont have such power, then I will be happy to continue the discussion. Until then, you get to stamp your feet and get the last word again since that is the game you seem to like to play.

all is all nice but...

when I hear of someone who stops doing something they like to do becuase someone broke a promise I find that patetic and childish and I am sorry but that feeling is factual.

despite how much experience you think you have in this industry and no matter how prinicpled you think you are everything you say here is also your "opinion" just like me, unless you can back it up as an actual fact.

also, to be frank, I think I have more actual game experience then most people here. Why ? becuase they still havent learned how the industry works pre-game release and they keep following the vapor.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by mklinic

 

1. Fair enough that you see it that way. Funny thing is that many people actually speak from experience while you openly state you have very little. Others speak based on principles when you openly admit you have very few. And yet you present yourself as knowing so much better then everyone while calling others losers.

2. Once again, nowhere in there have I said DF was bad or WoW was good as far as the game goes. If you want to get hung up on those specifics then your neglecting the actual topic.

3. Again, good for you, but that somehow allows you to label those other people as "losers". Reminds me of the mother watching their kid in the marching band "All those other kids are out of step except mine".

We can certainly go back and forth all day and not get anywhere though. My original point stands. You are not longer speaking to it and, as a result, I don't really see a reason to continue. If you still believe players kill games, despite your later statements that they dont have such power, then I will be happy to continue the discussion. Until then, you get to stamp your feet and get the last word again since that is the game you seem to like to play.

 

all is all nice but...

when I hear of someone who stops doing something they like to do becuase someone broke a promise I find that patetic and childish and I am sorry but that feeling is factual.

despite how much experience you think you have in this industry and no matter how prinicpled you think you are everything you say here is also your "opinion" just like me, unless you can back it up as an actual fact.

 

also, to be frank, I think I have more actual game experience then most people here. Why ? becuase they still havent learned how the industry works pre-game release and they keep following the vapor.

 

Yup it is all nice.
 

In the end it's always about a player's own personal opinion of what they find fun... or what they may THINK they will find fun. 

(If for instance, they haven't played the game and are just going by what they read about it from a description of it on the web-site).

The bottom line is that DarkFall is hurting for subs.  WoW has subs in spades.  Games are a very subjective thing, what one players find great; another will hate.  Current forum's game is a good example of this.

What isn't subjective is the number of subs that a game attracts.  Like it or not, MMOs are judged by the number of subs they attract. 

If a particular MMO attracts too few subs... they fold.   That too is not subjective... it's a fact.

If a particular MMO attacts a huge amount of subs... they will have many other MMOs trying to emulate them.  Again, nothing subjective there.

Draw whatever conclusion you want, but in the end there is no denying the fact that a very small percentage of gamers currently find DarkFall to be the best MMO available.  Will they attract enough to keep afloat?  Well, that is what this NA server launch in July will decide.

It will make no difference if you personally find DarkFall to be fun, and if you personally think it is the best MMO available.  If enough other players do not share your opinion... it will die.   THAT is where the intangibles like customer support, and PR come in.  They can help tide a game over the rough spots and give developers a few more months to straighten things out. 

THAT is what Aventurine has been pissing away in spades! 

Originally posted by xzyax

Yup it is all nice.
 

 

In the end it's always about a player's own personal opinion of what they find fun... or what they may THINK they will find fun. 

(If for instance, they haven't played the game and are just going by what they read about it from a description of it on the web-site).

 

The bottom line is that DarkFall is hurting for subs.  WoW has subs in spades.  Games are a very subjective thing, what one players find great; another will hate.  Current forum's game is a good example of this.

What isn't subjective is the number of subs that a game attracts.  Like it or not, MMOs are judged by the number of subs they attract. 

If a particular MMO attracts too few subs... they fold.   That too is not subjective... it's a fact.

If a particular MMO attacts a huge amount of subs... they will have many other MMOs trying to emulate them.  Again, nothing subjective there.

 

Draw whatever conclusion you want, but in the end there is no denying the fact that a very small percentage of gamers currently find DarkFall to be the best MMO available.  Will they attract enough to keep afloat?  Well, that is what this NA server launch in July will decide.

It will make no difference if you personally find DarkFall to be fun, and if you personally think it is the best MMO available.  If enough other players do not share your opinion... it will die.   THAT is where the intangibles like customer support, and PR come in.  They can help tide a game over the rough spots and give developers a few more months to straighten things out. 

THAT is what Aventurine has been pissing away in spades! 

most people would agree with this. I however do not.

I do not believe that the best movie is the one that sells the most tickets.

peroid.

Sorry

HOWEVER: you might be able to convince me that most people do not like to play a game based on fun factor of actual game play but more on customer service. This is something I could actually believe.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by xzyax

Yup it is all nice.
 

 

In the end it's always about a player's own personal opinion of what they find fun... or what they may THINK they will find fun. 

(If for instance, they haven't played the game and are just going by what they read about it from a description of it on the web-site).

 

The bottom line is that DarkFall is hurting for subs.  WoW has subs in spades.  Games are a very subjective thing, what one players find great; another will hate.  Current forum's game is a good example of this.

What isn't subjective is the number of subs that a game attracts.  Like it or not, MMOs are judged by the number of subs they attract. 

If a particular MMO attracts too few subs... they fold.   That too is not subjective... it's a fact.

If a particular MMO attacts a huge amount of subs... they will have many other MMOs trying to emulate them.  Again, nothing subjective there.

 

Draw whatever conclusion you want, but in the end there is no denying the fact that a very small percentage of gamers currently find DarkFall to be the best MMO available.  Will they attract enough to keep afloat?  Well, that is what this NA server launch in July will decide.

It will make no difference if you personally find DarkFall to be fun, and if you personally think it is the best MMO available.  If enough other players do not share your opinion... it will die.   THAT is where the intangibles like customer support, and PR come in.  They can help tide a game over the rough spots and give developers a few more months to straighten things out. 

THAT is what Aventurine has been pissing away in spades! 

 

most people would agree with this. I however do not.

I do not believe that the best movie is the one that sells the most tickets.

 

peroid.

Sorry

HOWEVER: you might be able to convince me that most people do not like to play a game based on fun factor of actual game play but more on customer service. This is something I could actually believe.

Did you read what I posted?

Please point to where I said that the best MMO (movie) is the one that sells the most subs (tickets).

I'll wait.

Originally posted by xzyax

 

Did you read what I posted?

Please point to where I said that the best MMO (movie) is the one that sells the most subs (tickets).

I'll wait.

dang it! I think you just killed it.

I was hoping someone would take point but I guess it died.

Locked:  Trolling.