I want to preface this post with a couple of statements.

I am a PVP gamer. I enjoy PVP always have, If a MMO doesn’t offer a comprehensive PVP game I will not play it period.

Also I think Aion is an incredible game that has a real shot of being a major success in the west, I think the Aion West team understands what will and will not go over and are dedicated to help this game live up to it’s potential.

Now with that out of the way……

Aion has a major problem, one that I’m afraid may end up costing the IP many, many players and that is intolerance. In Europe and Asia this isn’t a Issue, but here in “Merica”  we have this vocal contingent that is dead set on blowing as much shit as possible to those players who just aren’t that much into PVP but really enjoy Aions. Lore, Quest system and crafting…..these Asshats (for lack of a better description)  prowl the beta forums shouting go back to WoW every time anyone post anything that is non-PVP related, they say the game is their game, and outright lie about forced PVP…..even when developers show up and correct them.

It’s breeding a lord of the fly’s environment, that isn’t going to do the community one bit of good. I get that Aion is at it’s core a PVP game and I think that is great, but it is idiotic to spew hate at someone who doesn’t share your interest, because like it or not PVE players will play Aion…I know entire linkshells that have zero interest in PVP that have pre ordered the game…they are playing beta and they are loving it as a PVE game.  PVP players should understand that there is room for all play styles in Aion.

So lets put aside our differences we have the chance here to build a community that goes against the stereotypical American audience playing a Asian game… There are already some awesome people in our community….lets not let the few jerks who want Shadowbane part Deux ruin it for everyone.
 

Funny that most of these "Asshats" will be in fact enjoying the PvE also.  I like to do both and most of the time I find myself running with the PvE crowd.

People just need to chill.

Originally posted by stayontarget

Funny that most of these "Asshats" will be in fact enjoying the PvE also.  I like to do both and most of the time I find myself running with the PvE crowd.

People just need to chill.

That is a good point, and If the enviroment is right some of the PVE may try PVP and find out that like it.  One hoepful thing in all of this was last week Liv popped on the beta boards and basically said that the game was designed for all playstyles and that it wasn't any one groups game, and during the next preview event moderation was going to be a lot heavier. It's good to see that NCsoft is at least trying to keep to Apes from taking over the zoo.

It's not like this kind of fanatacism is only seen in Aion fanbois. WoW has it, AoC has it, Darkfall DEFINITELY has it. My point being, if you let a portion of the community ruin the game for you then I must say you are out of luck my friend.

Every game has an ignore fuction for a reason.

Originally posted by todeswulf

One hoepful thing in all of this was last week Liv popped on the beta boards and basically said that the game was designed for all playstyles and that it wasn't any one groups game, and during the next preview event moderation was going to be a lot heavier. It's good to see that NCsoft is at least trying to keep to Apes from taking over the zoo.

I didn't get to see that post but that's really good news, there were a few very senseless threads last beta that went on for too long.

To to the OP I'm one of those PvE players who's been dying to play this game and don't even care if I get thrown into PvP here and then, it's just that badass to me. ;p Also it's not just a matter of PvE vs PvP it's a matter of respect that in an online world a whole lot is possible that usually isn't in a specified single player experience, and we should always understand we don't own this game we just pay for the privilege of enjoying other people's creation, what we suggest to them is just that a suggestion. They don't have to consider it if they don't find them appropriate for the game they are trying to deliver. 

Now I know there's such a thing as customer satisfaction but bear with me, as a graphic designer I have known clients who will let me do whatever I want for their purpose and some who insist on telling me exactly what to do and how to do it. Guess which project usually ends up way cooler and nicer? Not the control freak's .... ^_^

Let the people show us their vision.

Unfortunately all games are getting these breeds of players, there's nothing legal you can do about i'm afraid :(

Where there be people, there be assholes.  Pretty simple, it takes all kinds to make a world.  Im just glad i'm not dealing with the Halo community, elitist jerks, little kids, spammers, you name it.  Since the PvP looks to be more group oriented, the idiots who fancy themselves the "Lone Ranger" will die, a terrible, horrible death, and I will watch them with my battlegroup, while they get themselves ganked and slaughtered like the noobs they are lol.

You may be concerned by those people, who want to be Fanboys and dicks.  Why not instead look around for the good people.  Sometimes, its as hard as looking for a needle in a pile of needles, but they are out there.  (Cynthe is awesome BTW, lets hope she doesnt choose the dark side).  I think Ephimero can get wrapped up to much in the game, but he's not a bad guy.  Mark from aionsource seems to be pretty cool too.  I dont think it necessary to keep listing names, but suffice to say, that if theres 1 good person out of 10 or even 100 assholes, then I would be happy and those are the people that I like to call friends.

While its true that players will be able to try to advoid PvP, it's impossible not to get ganked at least once due to rifts. In Korea, while leveling, I got ganked at least once a day out of the abyss. And we will hear many complains about that, you can be sure, what I don't want is PvErs wanting abyss weapons to be given in instances and getting ranks there too, or people complaining because they are not abyss heros without pvping, that's something I deffinetly dont want. Good thing tho, the game is Korean, our feedback will mix up with Koreans and they are more akin to my playstyle than western players are.

Originally posted by todeswulf

So lets put aside our differences we have the chance here to build a community that goes against the stereotypical American audience playing a Asian game… There are already some awesome people in our community….lets not let the few jerks who want Shadowbane part Deux ruin it for everyone.
 

OK come on. Shadowbane is what it is and never pretended to be anything else. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with Aion and the people who played Shadowbane aren't your problem.  You do realize most of the people who post go back to WoW are from WoW? The best way to discourage prejudices is not by displaying your own. The Stereotypical American audience isn't much different than the Stereotypical Asian one or the Stereotypical European one. The moderators just need to set a better tone on their forums and if that upsets a few weenies so be it.

Originally posted by Ephimero

While its true that players will be able to try to advoid PvP, it's impossible not to get ganked at least once due to rifts. In Korea, while leveling, I got ganked at least once a day out of the abyss. And we will hear many complains about that, you can be sure, what I don't want is PvErs wanting abyss weapons to be given in instances and getting ranks there too, or people complaining because they are not abyss heros without pvping, that's something I deffinetly dont want. Good thing tho, the game is Korean, our feedback will mix up with Koreans and they are more akin to my playstyle than western players are.

Actually that will no longer be a concern when 1.3 arrives, also Crafted  and PVE gear will be "comparable" to Abyss gear.  The crafted and drops will be geared more towards the PVE instances outside of the abyss, and are suppose to have their own still very cool look.

The malcontents on the beta board  even when shown the direct quotes from Brian Knox and Liv and the patch notes stilled denied it and was telling every new player that showed up on the beta boards they and I quote better love forced PVP or they had better GTFO.  I think that’s really prompted Liv to show up on the boards…I mean look at it from their end they have invested millions into making this a cross over multi play style MMO, they can’t have some whack job  who is convinced the game is just for them scare other players away.

Originally posted by zymurgeis

OK come on. Shadowbane is what it is and never pretended to be anything else. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with Aion and the people who played Shadowbane aren't your problem.  You do realize most of the people who post go back to WoW are from WoW? The best way to discourage prejudices is not by displaying your own. The Stereotypical American audience isn't much different than the Stereotypical Asian one or the Stereotypical European one. The moderators just need to set a better tone on their forums and if that upsets a few weenies so be it

Sure Zymurgeis....Shadowbane was Shadowbane, (It had it's charms :) )  And the reason I used it a an example is I was hearing the exact same idiocy on the beta boards last week that I heard from some of the SB Zealots back in the day.

Yes most of those who are shouting go back to WoW are butthurt hardcore Raiders or old World PVP players. That doesn’t make it any less unnecessary.  The thing is the European beta and the Chinese game this is a non issue, so why they may have stereotypes; being part of the bratty contingent that can't enjoy a game unless they are ruining another players day  isn't part of it. Those guys like me and unlike many American players want opponents not victims

I'm one of those who thinks that not all prejudices are bad, take prejudice against the aforementioned Jerks for instance, I could give you many more examples of just prejudices but I really don't want to go out into the real world for examples on a video game...lets just say they are plentiful.

Originally posted by todeswulf

Originally posted by Ephimero

While its true that players will be able to try to advoid PvP, it's impossible not to get ganked at least once due to rifts. In Korea, while leveling, I got ganked at least once a day out of the abyss. And we will hear many complains about that, you can be sure, what I don't want is PvErs wanting abyss weapons to be given in instances and getting ranks there too, or people complaining because they are not abyss heros without pvping, that's something I deffinetly dont want. Good thing tho, the game is Korean, our feedback will mix up with Koreans and they are more akin to my playstyle than western players are.

 

Actually that will no longer be a concern when 1.3 arrives,

How so, what does 1.3 change regarding rifts?

also Crafted  and PVE gear will be "comparable" to Abyss gear.  The crafted and drops will be geared more towards the PVE instances outside of the abyss, and are suppose to have their own still very cool look.

Comparable, but still slightly worse. Anyways, why would PvErs want the best possible equipment, all they need is something strong enough to complete the PvE content.

The malcontents on the beta board  even when shown the direct quotes from Brian Knox and Liv and the patch notes stilled denied it and was telling every new player that showed up on the beta boards they and I quote better love forced PVP or they had better GTFO.  I think that’s really prompted Liv to show up on the boards…I mean look at it from their end they have invested millions into making this a cross over multi play style MMO, they can’t have some whack job  who is convinced the game is just for them scare other players away.

 

While I don't agree with the go back to wow responses, I think many pvers are going to get frustrated once they get ganked through rifts and once they realize the best XP per kill ratio is in the Abyss.

 I honestly, have a hard time being respectfull towards people who come to a game's forum and tries to change its nature, specially when I already like its nature. A lot of games got way softer regarding the penalties and PvP because of people whining, and their egoist attitude is ruining games for people who have liked them since the first ideas were released. As long as you understand this is Aion and not another game, and that your wish to change the game to cater you will deter others who already like it, you'll have my respect.

Originally posted by todeswulf

Originally posted by zymurgeis

OK come on. Shadowbane is what it is and never pretended to be anything else. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with Aion and the people who played Shadowbane aren't your problem.  You do realize most of the people who post go back to WoW are from WoW? The best way to discourage prejudices is not by displaying your own. The Stereotypical American audience isn't much different than the Stereotypical Asian one or the Stereotypical European one. The moderators just need to set a better tone on their forums and if that upsets a few weenies so be it

Sure Zymurgeis....Shadowbane was Shadowbane, (It had it's charms :) )  And the reason I used it a an example is I was hearing the exact same idiocy on the beta boards last week that I heard from some of the SB Zealots back in the day.

 

Yes most of those who are shouting go back to WoW are butthurt hardcore Raiders or old World PVP players. That doesn’t make it any less unnecessary.  The thing is the European beta and the Chinese game this is a non issue, so why they may have stereotypes; being part of the bratty contingent that can't enjoy a game unless they are ruining another players day  isn't part of it. Those guys like me and unlike many American players want opponents not victims

 

I'm one of those who thinks that not all prejudices are bad, take prejudice against the aforementioned Jerks for instance, I could give you many more examples of just prejudices but I really don't want to go out into the real world for examples on a video game...lets just say they are plentiful.

 

Except those zealots were right. There was no PvE worthy of mention in Shadowbane. There isn't in Darkfall either contrary to a diffetrent group of zealots claims. Aion is apparently a fundamentlly different game. You can either bring people to realize that or you can build an unbreachable wall to shout at each other through.
 

Most of those bratty people you speak of are motivated by an insecurity so deep they can't deal with losing and will do anything to win. When they find they can't always win they leave rapidly enough. You actually have to be pretty Zen about losing to play Shadowbane for very long. Loss is a huge part of the game. Most people can't accept that. Even people who play Aion will have to deal with loss though to a much lesser extent.

Prejudice colors your perspective. It affects the ways you deal with people who you disagree with. Hate the idea not the person no matter how wrong you think their ideas are. Prejudice prevents you from meeting people on terms that may bring them around to your point of view. There is no justified prejudice. It is the sworn enemy of reason.

OP i must commend you on your atriculate post.  There are many people that share your sentiments and concerns, however, they have the sense enough to ignore childish mentalities that are rampant on teh web.  Those who chime in and attempt to ruin an atmosphere are immature losers who crave nothing more than attention at any cost.  Often times the silent majority who enjoy MMOs regardless of loud mouth dorks, are pwning thier sorry asses in game left adn right.  Regardless of their short comings, these brats do not control the fate of a game.  Believing such woudl just inflate their egos.  Immaturity only affects forum communities with regard to how often people will visit or botehr returning.  When it comes down to paid in game time, the silent majoirity and forum lurkers take a stand.  In conclusion - the ignore function is the best game feature ever invented!  /guildkick is at a close second.

peace

Originally posted by todeswulf

Aion has a major problem, one that I’m afraid may end up costing the IP many, many players and that is intolerance. In Europe and Asia this isn’t a Issue, but here in “Merica”  we have this vocal contingent that is dead set on blowing as much shit as possible to those players who just aren’t that much into PVP but really enjoy Aions. Lore, Quest system and crafting…..these Asshats (for lack of a better description)  prowl the beta forums shouting go back to WoW every time anyone post anything that is non-PVP related, they say the game is their game, and outright lie about forced PVP…..even when developers show up and correct them.

It’s breeding a lord of the fly’s environment, that isn’t going to do the community one bit of good. I get that Aion is at it’s core a PVP game and I think that is great, but it is idiotic to spew hate at someone who doesn’t share your interest, because like it or not PVE players will play Aion…I know entire linkshells that have zero interest in PVP that have pre ordered the game…they are playing beta and they are loving it as a PVE game.  PVP players should understand that there is room for all play styles in Aion.

So lets put aside our differences we have the chance here to build a community that goes against the stereotypical American audience playing a Asian game… There are already some awesome people in our community….lets not let the few jerks who want Shadowbane part Deux ruin it for everyone.
 

Without a link to a post its hard to understand the frame of reference in which you wrote this.  If the PVE players are going to the beta forums and complaining about the pvp focus of the game and suggesting more PVE features, then yes, they are going to be told to go back to WOW.

You might think its possible to develop a game that caters to both playstyles, but its not true.  A developer has to pick a core design and stay true to it, or you end up with a very generic mush that might even appeal to a broad audience (think WOW) but doesn't really offer an excellent experience in either PVE or PVP (also think WOW)

EVE is a PVP game at its core.  It also has a lot of PVE elements and in fact, people spend a large amount of time on PVE.  But there are always requests for more PVE, or more limitations on PVP and of course, those folks get told to go back to WOW.

I've not played Aion, but from what I've read, the Abyss combat is the core mechanic of the mid to end game.  Yep, they have lots of PVE quests and maybe even PVE raids, but it is not the core of the game. 

Yeah, the Developers say differently, but they either are lying, or ...trying to make a middle of the road game that appeals to a lot of people, but the are willing to settle for an average, generic gaming experience which might not be what some gamers are looking for.

Now I agree, there's no reason for the PVP crowd to react so violently to suggestions about broadening PVE options, but it just part of their nature and they've gone a long time w/o a quality game that caters to them.

As for forum moderation, when it came to the Lineage 1/2 forums NCSoft was quite stern and many a player found themselves permabanned from the forums, so I doubt you'll have to worry on that front once they get things really going.

AION follow the new style that sets PVP as the endgame.   I think PVErs has to understand this, because the act of leveling, put then near a PVP zone.   I know people that absolutelly don't want to play a game with PVP.  I think these people are letting his prejuzgtions to handicap his fun,  but... he? can we help these people?  I don't think so.    Is these people that is nerfing his fun with his absolute hatred for PVP. 

Well if there is no possibility of getting ganked while I'm questing, I'm sold....mostly :)

One thing that I feel like pointing out.

Aion's PvE content will satisfy PvErs. There are 4 instanced dungeons per race in 1.2, all of them are party dungeons. The raid bosses (24 people) are found in the open world, many of them in the abyss, many in the mainlands, those are the ones with red decoration around the HP bar. There are also lots of elite areas and zones to hunt in party with increased rewards. The PvE gear is pretty good and has awesome looks, I had draupnir shoulderpads as a sorcerer and they are awesome, really, with those energy threads moving around my chest I felt so bad ass.

However, if you are a PvEr and you want to advoid PvP at all costs, you'll be frustrated with Aion. Why?

-Rifts spawn near instances, people will block your entrance until you kill them.

-Some of your mainlands Raids are quest givers for the opposite race, you will aim to kill them, but they will go and defend them too. In many Korean servers, nowadays, there is some kind of truce between the races so asmos and Elyos wait together for the NPC without killing each other, but trust me that truce doesn't last long, there's always someone hitting someone else and then the skirmish begins.

-Without going to the abyss and without completing the missions there, you'll have to grind, Aion doesn't exceed quests per level, not even in 1.2, in 1.2, you will get to 50 questing as long as you complete all of the quests, including group and abyss ones.

-Rift gank squads are going on every 2 hours, I got killed by an Elyos rift squad in Beluslan, and when I hit back to the village, the elyos killed the guards in the town I was binded to and they started killing us again until I glided away from them to the ice lake and lost them. I had a quest to return there and I had to wait a lot until a group of Koreans formed to kick them out because they were also killing the NPCs. They even killed the soul recovery NPC lol.

- In 1.2 rifts are way more regulated than in 1.1, there are more guards and restrictions, still, there's a lot of ganking going on.

So, if you want Aion to fulfill your PvE needs, it will probably do it, but don't expect to just PvE in peace, because that won't happen, at least not always. The line separating PvE from PvP is way thinner than in western games (wow and war, for example).

Actually I think the EU would suffer from this just as much, well, western europe anyway, since Russians do love their Pvp's

There was very much this feeling with Guildwars too,  while GW is not advertised as an MMO, and more of a competative online RPG peope still compared it to an MMO and thus the floods of t ears ensued from those who blitzed the campain in but a week.

those of us who loved pvp, pvp'ed on GW for years and loved it, for the most part,  but a division was still created.

Aion's Pve, im sure, will last quite a bit longer than GW's original release will but the OP is right, there will still be these people who create those familiar rivers of tears named "forced to pvp"

While its true that many of us are capable to ignore such people, those with less maturity, less IQ and are less than articulate are in the majority!

I am a pve'er, however, I am looking forward to doing a lil' bit of pvp. Getting ganked is fine w/ me if it's only occasional. I like the look and pace of  Aion pve so much, that I'm willing to give the pvp a go.

What pve'ers need to understand is that this game offers Both play styles, so tolerance is gonna be key.

Good post btw.