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Originally posted by SemperFiVet
A typical reply from a internet genius with little or no real world experience. And you will have to excuse my typing, I took Football, girls and fast cars in high school and college, not typing..
 
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Pity you didn't take finance or law, either.

What is this guy hoping to accomplish by ranting to a bunch of gamer nerds?

Seriously.

Originally posted by ianubisi

I can't take any of this seriously.

Anyone with any proper sense would know better than to come to a public forum and write scathing, incendiary comments about a situation that has legal ramifications.

This is either slander or this is elemental stupidity in action.

Exactly.  Every word he typed (even if deleted) are now public record or one subpoena away.

http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=114867

Okay we have posts disappearing like Casper the ghost on this thread – I know I was up and posted some intelligent shit and now it’s gone.

Again, much of what Bob says is indeed true. The offices are nearly empty, and they did consolidated the studios personnel. Nobody that is left can make a game – especially with all the battlefield promotions that took place in the spring.
The code base for Stargate Worlds is broken! They let the interns and unqualified programmers work on the game and now nothing works. Because of this, they stopped working on Stargate Worlds and are concentrating on Deadlands with what few people they have left.

Bob is concerned because of his own losses, and the fact that Whiting is still out trying to gather funds from unknowing investors. They are still pushing MMOGULS, but with their main product Stargate Worlds never coming out…. Isn’t that illegal? Hell yes.

Bob, what are your plans? Are you going to litigate Whiting? You should, he got you to invest in MMOGULS or CME when he knew damn well that the game wasn’t coming out in April/May. Subpoena the company’s e-maill or deposition the employees. Have you contacted Nedra about teaming up with her? What can you really do to help the investors and employees?
 

SemperFiVet is Bob Guenther!!!!  What a joke - If he hadn't signed his name, I would have believed what he wrote because it sounds credible - but alas - he signed his name.  The one person who is more of a crook than Gary or Fred is Bob.  He has been on a self appointed mission to destroy Stargate Worlds since the day Gary and Fred kicked him out of the building.  With him as the author - who knows what if any of  his rantings is trueful and what is malicious lies.

 The OP made a second thread with the same title and message. 

And the same bad grammer and unfounded accusations.  Honestly when he called it a ponzi scheme I tuned out right there. Then I kept coming back for laughs when he claimed to be a high speed investor; yet put money into an mmo, didnt know what a ponzi scheme was, etc. I keep checking back just hoping the OP posts more stuff out of his ass so I can get a chuckle.

so is micheal jackson

I made some calls and got some facts.    Couldn't find anything out about MMOGULS - no one will talk or no one knows anything..  About CME - it is still moving forward, but has definitely had funding problems big time - Bob would like to take credit for destroying the company, but the economy has done the most damage.  Despite not being employed, there are still several employees cranking out work every day.  CME is not a Ponzi - no investor has received any return on their money and didn't expect to until the game launched.  If CME can raise the money, the game can get completed and investor will do ok.  if they don't raise funds (as Bob is trying to cause) then everyone will lose everything.  Bob and the economy will hold far more blame than Gary or Fred for CME's demise.  of course, they caused their own problems.

Originally posted by Demonized

so is micheal jackson

loool! i read every post and I have to say, epic payout at the end of this thread with your post.  You just saved the thread... bravo!!

I dont know about you lot but I am finding this fascinating.

I also dont know about the legal standpoint, maybe I am getting something mixed up or wrong but from what I have read so far.

1-40 mil from mormon friends

2-10 mil from people involved in creating game (senior management and possibly the stars of the show)

3-20 mil from people that invested in a GW comp and not CME, to get a piece of the CME pie, but through a 3rd party.

 This 20 mil I take it was basically a form of being able to accept money into a another company that could be legally invested in anything but CME, but give those investors the feeling they were buying into the slice of the game StargateWorlds, when the people at that company knew the invested funds would not go into CME.

Now if I understand correctly all this money was to invest in a game called StargateWolrds, it was not invested to make other companies like 'Superstition Studios' or 'Hand Cranked Games', I can understand the creation of a publishing house, but not the other two.  Also to have the money people have invested in StargateWolds to be used for other projects, no matter how viable but have nothing to do with StargateWorlds, seems to me very unlawful.

I am really suprised at the number of company names created and supposedly connected to CME, that are not truely connected, for example 'Cheyenne Mountain Games', this has nothing to do with CME or stargateworlds, but was created by GW so he could "LINK" possible non funded CME projects to look like they are all one big company.

The whole thing has become so twisted and so convoluted no one knows what companies do what, what companies belong to whom (well GW, but how was he allowed to run rampant creating as many alias'  this isnt a website url domain).

What will become of StargateWorlds, when everyone invested ONLY IN THIS GAME.

Some answers I would like to know.

1-Who owns Firesky?

2-Who owns the IP now? (Firesky or CME)

3-If CME dies will Firesky be able to carry on the IP with another Developer House?

4-Will CME and FIRESKY get into a fistycuffs over StargateWorlds.

The last question is the most important, we all know what happens when the Developer tries to go it alone without the publisher who holds the IP, think Stargate:Alliance, it was found that JoWood didnt have the rights to SG IP, and when he tried to drop the perception publisher, they shot themselves in the foot and basically MGM stepped in pulled the IP from them, it took a 2 years court battle, but JoWood eventually admitted they didnt have the IP at the time, and is still under investigation about fooling people into believing he had, taking investors money and so forth, even though he knew at the time he did not have that IP.

This all seems to ring true again, since back in April 2008, Firesky boasts ion a press release it now has the publishing rights to the SG IP for StargateWorlds.  Now does this mean that CME has just become the developing house to produce the code for Firesky.  CME cannot publish the game because Firesky has the publishing rights, even if CME wanted to publish the game they would not be able to.

This raises the next question (for me anyways), was Firesky created to move assets away from certain individuals and create a buffer company, so that if things went wrong all the code and hardware, etc will be safe.  Having looked at Firesky, I can see the main people at the top are similar to CME, but different in the sense that they are all from the games industry, unlike CME that seems to be a list of who could get there names on the dotted line before anyone else.

I know this is all specualtion, but I would seriously like to know the answers to these questions.

1-Who owns Firesky? Gary Whiting.

2-Who owns the IP now? (Firesky or CME) Gary Whiting.

3-If CME dies will Firesky be able to carry on the IP with another Developer House? No.

4-Will CME and FIRESKY get into a fistycuffs over StargateWorlds. No.

To go more deeply into it, if Firesky had the IP how would it fund another development studio to develop the game? Also I doubt the contract with MGM allows Firesky to sell it on to someone else and effectively become a middle man. CME and Firesky getting into a fisticuffs? I somehow doubt Gary Whiting is going to sue himself, he has enough trouble with others sueing him already!

As for ownership, Firesky was created by Cheyenne Mountain Games which is owned by ... you guessed it Gary Whiting.

Originally posted by yellowperil

1-Who owns Firesky?

2-Who owns the IP now? (Firesky or CME)

3-If CME dies will Firesky be able to carry on the IP with another Developer House?

4-Will CME and FIRESKY get into a fistycuffs over StargateWorlds.

1. This is muddy as all hell... if you go to firesky.com and click on the "large" company tab, you'll see these words:

FireSky, Inc., a wholly-owned publishing subsidiary of Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment, was formed in 2008.

However, Firesky is not incorporated in AZ, only NV. And neither are any of GW's other companies other than CME.

If you search the NV corporate records, you'll see that Firesky is an LLC, managed by Cheyenne Mountain Games, not Enttertainment.

In fact, CMG is the umbrella corp, and manager of all the studios (Handcranked, Superstition, and Stargate Worlds). It and CME are full corporations. However, GW is the president and chairman of CMG, giving him more control. However, I can't really be sure that the NV records are completely up to date.

I have no idea how CME and CMG interrelate, nor why there is a "Stargate Worlds" LLC, or how it relates to CME.

2. The license was originally granted to CME. I have not been able to find anything about it being transferred.

3. Depends on the answer to 2.

4. Well, given that GW is the chairman of both companies, he can fire any CEO that doesn't follow his direction, and put himself in the position. So, I doubt the companies themselves would get into a fight. Doint this might cause investor lawsuits, perhaps.

The reason for my post is very simple.. Whiting and Gagon are crooks. They have preyed on their own Mormon brothers, dedicated employees, friends and friends of friends and hundreds, if not several thousand ,unsophisticated investors. I simply want to warn others so they will not loose their money and I want to gather as much information on other injured parties  who may want to TRY and get their money back and would like to put Whiting and Gagon where they belong, in jail..

Along the way, he hit on a few investors, like me, who look at the company,  form a LP, minimize each partners exposure, jump in and take a good, long look before investing serious money. That is exactly what I did. I have recouped my original investment of $60,000. When I went after Whiting in January, threatening a shareholders suit and was going to petition the court for a receiver to be appointed to oversee CME, Whiting wired my $60K back to my bank. At the same time, he and Wendi Horton, one of his multiple wives and personal assistant filed a bogus Workplace Harrassment Injuction against me on Jan 5th. The order was dismissed without prejudice on January 16th.. See the order below:

Michael K. Jeanes, Clerk of Court
*** Electronically Filed ***
01/20/2009 8:00 AM
SUPERIOR COURT OF ARIZONA
MARICOPA COUNTY
CV 2009-090215 01/16/2009
Docket Code 002 Form V000A Page 1
CLERK OF THE COURT
COMMISSIONER BRIAN S. REES L. Gauna
Deputy
MMOGULS / CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN &
AFFILIATES
MMOGULS / CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN
& AFFILIATES
4140 E BASELINE RD
MESA AZ 85206
v.
ROBERT GUENTHER SCOTT H ZWILLINGER
MCSO-OIC
MINUTE ENTRY
This matter having been set for hearing on the Injunction Against Workplace Harassment
issued on January 5, 2009 on behalf of Mmoguls/Cheyenne Mountain & Affiliates and against
Robert L. Guenther at 9:30 a.m., and the Court having received and reviewed a faxed Stipulation
for Dismissal without Prejudice,
IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED approving the Stipulation.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED vacating the hearing set this date.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED dismissing the Injunction Against Workplace Harassment
issued on January 5, 2009.
FILED: Order Dismissing Injunction Against Workplace Harassment
LET THE RECORD REFLECT the Injunction Against Workplace Harassment is
quashed electronically at 1:49 p.m. by the above named Deputy Clerk.

Despite the dismissal, Whiting found a Mesa police officer to file charges against me for violating the order, 2 months after the dismissal., the charge, Sending two emails....

Whiting has no problem with finding funds for lawyers, he uses investors money.  And he has a legal background, so he manuvers the system.. Trouble  for Whiting, I also have a legal background and am handling this case Pro Per, representing myself. Last week I once again appeared in  Maricopa County Superior Court, waived a Preliminary Hearing and have a Pre Trial Hearing scheduled for July 23rd. I passed on a plea agreement offered, because I want this clown in the courtroom and on the record, under oath. He won't show though, he is all talk and no play..

In the past several days I have been inundated with calls from people who have been scammed by Whiting, just yesterday I was contacted by a man in Phoenix who was talked into "lending"  Whiting some money last August, with a promise to rep[ay him in 30 days plus give him some stock. He has not seen a dime of his money, and is ready to file charges against Whiting, the amount of the loan, $250,000.... I have so many stories like that I could write a 300 page book..

And to answer questions about what I am going to do, it is simple,:

I am going to follow Whiting and Gagon to the grave or to jail, which ever comes first. WHY?

Because, he screwed with the wrong redneck from Texas..............

I wish you the best man.  I was looking forward to this particular game, but certainly not at the expense of anyone.  It does sound like you have a solid case, with plenty of potential witnesses/victims.  Be careful though. Don't paint yourself in a corner by falling into the trap of discrediting yourself by letting your emotions dictate your actions in a public forum (be it here or anywhere.)  Take the high road.  By all means be informative, but stick to the facts to protect yourself, and your case.

All i have to say damm stargate would of made a pretty intresting game.

Also its ok to warn people but try find somewere that can back your facts up because gaming community is bunch non-believer they think everything is vaporware lol.

Semper if you could answer a couple of more points please.

1- if investments were made to Gavick and not directly to CME, this money in theory was never invested IN CME, or is this how Gavick company used this money to get such a large % in CME.

2-Why didnt people invest directly into CME, as far as I know, GW was hired to find investors for CME, but your comments look like he found investors to invest in his companies as they had shares in CME? is this legal?

3-If the initial investors money was for stargateworlds MMORPG, why did/does CME use this money to create other companies and make other games with this money? Is that legal?

4-When was the last time you saw the game actually playing, I find it hard to believe its as incomplete as your making it out to be?

5-Did you invest in MMOGULS or CME (for stargateworlds)?  This one is important.

6-I hear ponzi scheme and everything being thrown around, which I think is very wrong, we are talking about the GAME and CME, not MMOGULS, if you invested in CME you were not investing in a MMOGULS, but a MMORPG, were the turnaround would have been anything from 1-3 years from investment.

7-Did you get involved with MMOGULS first or CME?

8-You maybe able to answer this one, is FIRESKY under the control of GW and band, or is it now a breakaway company?

Originally posted by mackdawg19

I hope you realize most MMO's that are created from an independent company are working off investor cash. Anyway's, if SGW is dead, why are the servers still up and running? I take it your someone who's local and harrased them because they removed you from beta and claim to be an investor because you gave them free lunch? Regardless, the game is still being run and developed, and in fact is not dead. SUre they are having money issues, but they are still in development. It's clearly evident if you were in beta you would know this. Thanks for posting your info though, look forward to some spam. And next time your bitter, would be best to look professional and take it up with them instead of posting it in some forum board where people careless and will only flame you. Seriously, if you invested with them and are legitiment, why would you even attempt to post this here. Does it even sound like the right thing to do?

The only servers up and running are the website. The beta has been offline since late last year. No news out of CME in months, no beta boards, nothing but the regular community forum.

If this game isn't dead, it should be.

Originally posted by heartless

I don't understand why you guys are attacking him. He's obviously distraught over being scammed. Whether or not he really did get scammed, I don't know. What I do know is that the information he provided does seem interesting and in my opinion warrants a little more attention. The TTH article about a potential MLM scheme by CME was also an interesting read.

I did check out the MMOGULs website and it does seem like an MLM scheme. They call their members "affiliates" and there is a blog post about combining work and leisure to make money.

Anyway, seems interesting to me. I sure do love a good conspiracy.

Actually, most think he was trying to scam MMOGULS and take over the company. Now, he is  the owner of 2 felony charges of violating a restraining order.  There is also rumors that he physically choked someone in their office, which is aggravated assault. Bob is not all there sometimes, you should see his other rants on other forums.

Ask him if he got the money he invested in MMOGULS by scamming another group of people out of $130K !

what a horrible death, This was the most horrifying read ever. My stomach cant take how well described the grueling disgusting eye popping omg.