I see many preorder P2P games and buy collector editions and spend money without having played the game. *cough cough Aion*

When the games turn out to be bad, everyone complains about the industry and how they don't innovate.

Isn't it the players themselves who do this?

 Everyone is handing over money withouth knowing much of the games through preorders. How are small and innovative companies going to fight against people who keep spending money on anything that's new and shiny to get beta keys or silly collector edictions etc?

It's a bit the players themselves who support cookie-cutter industry don't you think?

...ok what? How is getting excited about a game and preordering it making the game industry make cookiecutter games? Alot of the time the companies that are innovating these games need to do a preorder system so they can get some kind of revenue to finish polishing the game. As of recently Ill agree that several games have done this completely wrong. Say AoC or WaR or Darkfall who made you basically pre-order an unfinished product. The game industry does not lack innovation, it is just a waiting game before the innovative games hit the market. No one wants to lose money so WoW model shows promise. If you pitch a radical new MMO to a company they are going to point you to the exit. If you show them a WoW clone and explain how well WoW did and how that will rub off on your game they will give you a contract. I expect to see much more promising MMO's in the future from very small unknown companies. (PLZ GOD PLZ!)

Originally posted by Killsmallchi

...ok what? How is getting excited about a game and preordering it making the game industry make cookiecutter games?

Ok, I thought I explained it, but will try to explain it again.

If people keep preordering like sheep and preorder anything the big companies throw at them, even if they don't know anything about the game, you are supporting that industry.

All that money is not going to innovative companies and smaller companies and the industry keeps making the same stuff because the same people keep buying it.

How do you expect to get innovation if everyone hands over money no matter what? Aion is a good example, AoC was a good example. Some might like the games but many will be disappointed and then complain about it..but they all preorder blindly? Hmm..what do you expect....?

I wish preorders wouldn't be possible, it's really huring this industry and this time it is the player's fault.

Originally posted by Bastioni

I see many preorder P2P games and buy collector editions and spend money without having played the game. *cough cough Aion*

When the games turn out to be bad, everyone complains about the industry and how they don't innovate.

Isn't it the players themselves who do this?

 Everyone is handing over money withouth knowing much of the games through preorders. How are small and innovative companies going to fight against people who keep spending money on anything that's new and shiny to get beta keys or silly collector edictions etc?

It's a bit the players themselves who support cookie-cutter industry don't you think?

Most players will have played the game through a preview event or beta before making this decision (at least in my experience) or know someone who has played it and is hyping it enough to get them excited about it too.

I think all CE edition buyers will have at least done a decent amount of research about the game before purchasing it too.

Preorders and CE editions have nothing to do with helping with finishing polishing.  Generally at the point preorders are available the game will have finished with most of it's development costs.  Remember preorders can still be cancelled (usually).  What it does help is it gives the developer an idea of how many people are going to buy their game and they can reduce or increase the number of actual box units they are going to ship depending on how many preordered.

Do you walk into your local Gamestop and ask what's available for preorder as a collector's edition and just buy it?  No, you probably at least have a really decent amount of knowledge about the game or are a fan of the company/series before you do it.  Most people don't preorder stuff on impulses.  Impulse buying is actually done on physical items in the store.

Originally posted by Magnum2103

 

Most players will have played the game through a preview event or beta before making this decision (at least in my experience) or know someone who has played it and is hyping it enough to get them excited about it too.

I think all CE edition buyers will have at least done a decent amount of research about the game before purchasing it too.

Preorders and CE editions have nothing to do with helping with finishing polishing.  Generally at the point preorders are available the game will have finished with most of it's development costs.  Remember preorders can still be cancelled (usually).  What it does help is it gives the developer an idea of how many people are going to buy their game and they can reduce or increase the number of actual box units they are going to ship depending on how many preordered.

Do you walk into your local Gamestop and ask what's available for preorder as a collector's edition and just buy it?  No, you probably at least have a really decent amount of knowledge about the game or are a fan of the company/series before you do it.  Most people don't preorder stuff on impulses.  Impulse buying is actually done on physical items in the store.

I don't think so, many bought Vanguard blindly and many are buying Aion blindly withouth having played the game. It's the same thing all over again.

Originally posted by Bastioni

Originally posted by Killsmallchi

...ok what? How is getting excited about a game and preordering it making the game industry make cookiecutter games?

 

Ok, I thought I explained it, but will try to explain it again.

If people keep preordering like sheep and preorder anything the big companies throw at them, even if they don't know anything about the game, you are supporting that industry.

All that money is not going to innovative companies and smaller companies and the industry keeps making the same stuff because the same people keep buying it.

How do you expect to get innovation if everyone hands over money no matter what? Aion is a good example, AoC was a good example. Some might like the games but many will be disappointed and then complain about it..but they all preorder blindly? Hmm..what do you expect....?

I wish preorders wouldn't be possible, it's really huring this industry and this time it is the player's fault.

You have still failed to explain how preorders could possibly be hurting the industry.

The fact is, the majority of games, mmo or otherwise, are sold without the player ever having played them.  Your example of Aion, in particular, is ridiculous.  The game has been out in asia for 6 months, and there is plenty of information available on it.  I preordered it, I loved it during the preview, and I plan on playing it upon release.

Look at Mortal Online for an example of how pre orders can HELP a small company who is trying to innovate.

Now, during poor economic times, would be in incredibly stupid time to try and innovate.  As we have seen thus far every game that strays from the tried and true formula ends up closing the doors on the game because no one wants to play it.  Innovation is a double edged-sword, either it works out and you have a sleeper hit or you just wasted all your hard work and money on landfill contents.

As far as Aion is concerned, many that have pre-ordered have already tried the game through use of the Korean or Chinese clients.  So as far as to call those of us that have pre-ordered "sheep" perhaps you might want to rethink your strategy and approach it from a more constructive direction.  Perhaps then you will get a real discussion.

Not everyone does this and I believe the majority doesn't, but many do. Thousands of people buy MMO and quit them the next day. 

Anyone remember WAR and AoC's numbers, was it from a million to barely 100k a few weeks later? People are consumer junkies and there's little to stop them.

I must be missing something here...I still dont understand how pre-ordering any game prevents another industry from creating an innovative game? I would never blindly just pre-order anything but even if I did it doesnt mean that I wouldn't support another game from another company if that game was just as good or better...maybe someone can explain to me where the problem lies in pre-ordering and how that affects other games being cookiecutters?

People also 'preorder' movie tickets, they pay the full price in advance without seeing beforehand what kind of movie it'll be. Now we know why the movie industry is so un-innovative, right?

I'd say there are 4 kinds of preorders.

1) Some people preorder after having tested the game, or read a review they trust, or heard from a friend. It's a purchase based on knowledge, nothing wrong with that.

2) Other preorders are made because the game is based on Age of Conan/Lord of the Rings/Star Wars/<insert your favourite IP here>. Those purchases have little to do with game quality, and encourage game studios to use popular IPs instead of creating their own. I think these are bad for the industry, it encourages producers to produce crappy games from popular IPs and reap the profits out of fans

3) Some people preorder game because it's a sequel to their favourite game or comes from their favourite developer. I personally admit bying anything coming from Blizzard. But if a game studio has made a good game that you have enjoyed very much, don't they deserve it? Even if it works against small indie game studios, it also works against those studios producing crappy games (like SOE has done with some of their games), and rewards those who make quality products with sales of future products (like Bioware).

4) Some people preorder game because of promised features. I think Darkfall is a good example of this, the game's quality is questionable but FFA PVP with full loot sells. Also Vanguard sold much because of promise, and AoC. This is a double edged sword, on the other hand it helps indie developers and those who include some radical new features, wich I consider generally a good thing. But on the other hand it's the worst possible way customers could act because developers get money just by promising something and may deliver a horrible and broken game.

I started preordering and purchasing CEs to piss people off actually... since then i've enjoyed the hefty influx of posters and dodads, full beta access, head starts, items that boost my stats, and a fancy box on my shelf.

To think, I started doing it back in 2004 just because of a thread like this!

Originally posted by Locklain

Now, during poor economic times, would be in incredibly stupid time to try and innovate.  As we have seen thus far every game that strays from the tried and true formula ends up closing the doors on the game because no one wants to play it.  Innovation is a double edged-sword, either it works out and you have a sleeper hit or you just wasted all your hard work and money on landfill contents.

 

And how many games that have simply followed the same cookie cutter formula have been wildy sucessfull?

I don't recall games that have strayed too far that have closed the doors. The few games that I can think of that have closed the doors weren't because of straying too far from the true formula, but mostly they were just poorly put together games.

This would be a perfect time to innovate. Since all the past few years have shown us is half assed games following the tried formula too close an failing to bring in the big numbers anyway.

As for pre-ordering. Ya I learnt my lesson with AoC, the first and last game I will ever pre-order. I will never waste my money like that again. But if people are willing to toss their money out the door...let them do so. As long as it ain't my money I couldn't care less.

Originally posted by talismen351

Originally posted by Locklain

Now, during poor economic times, would be in incredibly stupid time to try and innovate.  As we have seen thus far every game that strays from the tried and true formula ends up closing the doors on the game because no one wants to play it.  Innovation is a double edged-sword, either it works out and you have a sleeper hit or you just wasted all your hard work and money on landfill contents.

 

 

And how many games that have simply followed the same cookie cutter formula have been wildy sucessfull?

I don't recall games that have strayed too far that have closed the doors. The few games that I can think of that have closed the doors weren't because of straying too far from the true formula, but mostly they were just poorly put together games.

This would be a perfect time to innovate. Since all the past few years have shown us is half assed games following the tried formula too close an failing to bring in the big numbers anyway.

As for pre-ordering. Ya I learnt my lesson with AoC, the first and last game I will ever pre-order. I will never waste my money like that again. But if people are willing to toss their money out the door...let them do so. As long as it ain't my money I couldn't care less.

Ive never preordered an MMO but have a couple single player games. And the only MMO i purchased at launch was LOTRO which i enjoyed for a few months after Turbine and Nvidia decided to play nice together. Normally i would agree that preordering is risky at best but in the case of Aion its a bit different as the game has been being played in Asia and seems popular and its been out long enough it should be pretty much bug free and from what ive seen posted from the beta testers im really thinking on a pre order. Just to share,  the only two games ive ever pre ordered were Doom 3 for the xbox and Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess for the Gamecube. PC games are just too buggy at launch for me be they single player or MMO but as said, Aion is tempting me. 

I rarely buy collectors editions of games becuase they usually have random junk that I would look at once and throw away after a couple of weeks, maybe if they offered stuff like 8+ inch figures of the game I would think about it. Usually they come with stuff like a map of the game world, a compass, a small figure (2-6 inches) and other random junk

I always preorder a game if I'm interested in it. I want to and I can afford it.

That's really all I need to say.