And frankly who cares? So what if WoW loses some players.. fact is it also gain some and will keep the majority of the players. WoW isn't going anywhere.. even when I sometimes wish it would so other MMOs could shine. It's a fun game to most and keeps players playing. Everyday people are getting their friends to play so if a handfull of players on a forum are upset, they don't care and rightfully so.

Blizzards own judgment has gotten them this far.

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

---

Originally posted by graggok
So yeah I think every expansion pack drives more and more of their character base away.

---

And yet WoW keeps growing. The last official tally was 11.6 million.

 

Pretty much shows how accurate you are.
 

Problem with that though, is the growing amount of players that complain about WoW or players that are just riding WoW until something new hits.

Personally I don't see anything killing WoW except the passage of time, all things grow old and die and someday WoW will move on to the mmo afterlife, and some people will rue the day and others will rejoice.

Originally posted by pzykozis

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

And yet WoW keeps growing. The last official tally was 11.6 million.

 

Pretty much shows how accurate you are.
 

 

Problem with that though, is the growing amount of players that complain about WoW or players that are just riding WoW until something new hits.

Personally I don't see anything killing WoW except the passage of time, all things grow old and die and someday WoW will move on to the mmo afterlife, and some people will rue the day and others will rejoice.

You make an assumption.
 

Now tell me ... let's take a game where "that growing amount of players" were just riding Wow until something new came along ... in 2006, in 2007, in 2008.

In fact dozens of new games came along... and your assumption doesn't hold much truth does it ? Just let's take a few of those multi dozen launches....

In fact LotrO was VERY polished and had THE Fantasy Lore this side of the universe in its hands...

In fact AoC and WAR were launched massively with a big hyped bang that could almost compete with the big bang of the (MMORPG) universe.

These last games were launched at the BEST possible opening (a full 17 to 21 months after the last Wow expansion) and ... nothing happened.

So there is more going on than what you believe.

And WHY being occupied with "passage of time" and "afterlife". Are you that interested by death? Or do you enjoy life?

:))))

----- It is simple -----

The industry is being made by ALL of the game developpers and as long as these game developpers make perfect copies of Wow with the same strategies involved, they assure Wow just gets bigger with every new mmorpg launched.

(Xn + Sn) = Wow biggest, where Xn is the number of fantasy mmorpg's and Sn is the number of strategies used in gameplay.

So indeed every new mmorpg launched is a further push for Wow. Aging? I had the impression that these last new mmo's were far behind of what I saw in WotLK. They didn't even have things like personal flying, underwater, tanks, dual specs, 100vs100 PvP fights every night on every server ...

-----

Why would people play another "lesser developped" game if ALL they can do is to play exactly the same game they have in Wow with lesser options. Just for having another tree or river or house or worse animated character?

It is NOT enough they replace a mace with a light sabre or "killing boars" with "killing pigs in space" either.

As long as these games pass on, they will just reinforce Wow, because the winner is already being made (and progresses with every new month coming). Xn + Sn = Wow wins. Clear.

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by Thillian

I did not talk about WoW at all. I refuse to believe a survey claiming that majority of video gamers are girls aged 25-52. That's just ridiculous.

Then don't believe it, it doesn't make it any less true.

I will believe neilsen's ratings and surveys over the opinions on a forum everyday. And if you prefer, you can go to the neilsen site and get more information on their methodology.

Its statistics like this that indicate a changing MMO market and why some games are succeeding well and others are falteringly badly.

EDIT: Actually, the report says the majority of PC gamers are female. That includes all types of gaming including games like Freecell, Solitaire, and Pogo games in addition to MMO's.

The reason for the increase in PC usage is that consoles have increased in their usage and console gaming is mainly where the male audience has gone lately. If you look at the top titles for consoles (other than some Wii games), they are usually FPs types games which are dominated by males.

Yes it's easy to believe a survey that gives you results you would want to see. There's no statistics really, there's only interpretation. This interpretation of the date is wrong, because their research is  wrong. They do now have relevant information.

I want to know, what does this software of theirs monitors. They say they know who is sitting at the computer,... how? Based on the windows account? That would be ridiculous. Who owns the computer? Who bought it? What 14 year old kid has enough money to buy his own computer or a credit card to keep paying for subscribtion based game.

I do not trust most of the surveys ever done and gave to the public. There's usually very little relevance in them.

---

Originally posted by Thillian
I did not talk about WoW at all. I refuse to believe a survey claiming that majority of video gamers are girls aged 25-52. That's just ridiculous.

---

When you skew the actual survey in the way you did with that line, then you create your own valid point, but did you actually take the time to read the results?

On top of that, how is it so hard to believe that women are catching up with men when it comes to time spent on PC/Video games? I know that my direct neighbours, both fall into the 25-52yo female category, both play card games pretty much daily as a way to relax.

Access to technology and broadband is far wider than it has ever been and women use that technology just as much as men do, so why shouldn't they participate to the same degree in online/offline entertainment as men do??

I never understand why people care so much about WoW's inevitable doom, yes i say inevitable becuase it surely will one day be no more. But why concern our selves with when this may happen ?

Currently WoW is still doing great, probably better than ever, it really only seems to ever gain numbers not loose them (like it would actually matter if a few thousand left). Yes it has become alot easier, but it is still alot of fun and so commercially viable that it will continue to do well.

Unless Blizzard somehow totally and utterly nuke the game with a patch or expansion, I don't think we will be seeing WoW die anytime soon. Not in the next 5 years anyway.

Garrik

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 

---

Originally posted by graggok
So yeah I think every expansion pack drives more and more of their character base away.

---

And yet WoW keeps growing. The last official tally was 11.6 million.

 

Pretty much shows how accurate you are.

Well, if you want to throw out numbers, at least but them into perspective: WoW announced 11.5 Million shortly after the Release of WOTLK. Since then, 7 Months have passed with no new milestone announced, and myriads of gamer opinions turning from an early enthusiasm to a bored or even disappointed lethargy. Also, right now you ll have to deduct 3 or 4 million as China doesnt yet have WoW again, and its quite uncertain whether each and every player there will come back after the forced month hiatus.

So yeah, WoW is huge, successful, nobody denies that. But its also a statistical fact that its massive growth has come largely from the mid-classic to late-BC era, NOT the WotLK-Era. Which in fact seems to have plateau'd population.

Now, there can be a lot of reasons for that. Market saturation, actual boredom, maybe bad buzz, whatever. We cannot say for sure. But at the very least, BC and its design principles seemingly were better at retaining and/or attracting customers than WotLK.

WotLK has changed the game a lot, but what made WoW big was the game before that, not the WotLK that is now.

I dont have a horse in that race, but I am really not a fan of people on either side of the fence trying to make their point by arbitrarily picking numbers without context.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Apham

 

^^^ QFT haha this made me chuckle because of how true it is. As much as we whine we are the minority. Kids like my brother ~15-16 years old never visits forums at all and are quite happy with the state of the game.

The MAJORITY of Wow players are in the age of:

25 - 54 year olds.

reference: http://www.wow.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-game-by-25-54-females/

Study of Nielsen in 2008/2009.  Study with 1.8 mullion US citizens.

So apparently members on mmorpg.com have NO clue what they are talking about :)))

Lucky for me, because I like WoW :)))

 And of course the 300 members logged in daily on these forums are a rare minority of mmorpg players. They are mostly (not all) bored with some games and are on the constant look out for a "new" game to appear.

The problem is they don't realise what it takes in resources to make a good new mmorpg these days and so hop from one game to another  without getting any (or hardly any) return. It's a no go for the industry either. Because each new game loses players faster than we can say the word "subscription".

That's not the fault of Blizzard. That's just the result of the personal perception of these posters on mmorpg.com which - of course - is meaningless when you consider what is needed to make good games that a lot of people simply like to play.

The worst what can happen is that some game designers actually would start reading these forums. It already started when the old president of FunCom began to compare the MMO's with food... Such silly statements (purely coming from forum trolls) actually resulted in one of the least succesful mmo's ever launched (AoC). Another example is M.J. who really thought everyone was bored of Wow (and so thought "everyone" was posting).

No Br. Spears is not an MMO and Wow is NOT specialised in fast food and 98% of Wow players simply like to play WOW...on their own schedule ... with or without breaks.

First lessons for mmorpg.com dwellers....

 

Heh, you are a bit misguided there my friend. That study only shows that within the 25-54 female demographic WoW is the most played game.

There isn't an up to date study on the average age of WoW players. Many of the past studies also disregard that many accounts are owned by the parents of the actual people playing the game, causing a discrepancy in the average age.

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Apham

 

^^^ QFT haha this made me chuckle because of how true it is. As much as we whine we are the minority. Kids like my brother ~15-16 years old never visits forums at all and are quite happy with the state of the game.

The MAJORITY of Wow players are in the age of:

25 - 54 year olds.

reference: http://www.wow.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-game-by-25-54-females/

Study of Nielsen in 2008/2009.  Study with 1.8 mullion US citizens.

So apparently members on mmorpg.com have NO clue what they are talking about :)))

Lucky for me, because I like WoW :)))

 And of course the 300 members logged in daily on these forums are a rare minority of mmorpg players. They are mostly (not all) bored with some games and are on the constant look out for a "new" game to appear.

The problem is they don't realise what it takes in resources to make a good new mmorpg these days and so hop from one game to another  without getting any (or hardly any) return. It's a no go for the industry either. Because each new game loses players faster than we can say the word "subscription".

That's not the fault of Blizzard. That's just the result of the personal perception of these posters on mmorpg.com which - of course - is meaningless when you consider what is needed to make good games that a lot of people simply like to play.

The worst what can happen is that some game designers actually would start reading these forums. It already started when the old president of FunCom began to compare the MMO's with food... Such silly statements (purely coming from forum trolls) actually resulted in one of the least succesful mmo's ever launched (AoC). Another example is M.J. who really thought everyone was bored of Wow (and so thought "everyone" was posting).

No Br. Spears is not an MMO and Wow is NOT specialised in fast food and 98% of Wow players simply like to play WOW...on their own schedule ... with or without breaks.

First lessons for mmorpg.com dwellers....

 

Heh, you are a bit misguided there my friend. That study only shows that within the 25-54 female demographic WoW is the most played game.

 

There isn't an up to date study on the average age of WoW players. Many of the past studies also disregard that many accounts are owned by the parents of the actual people playing the game, causing a discrepancy in the average age.

Apparently it is YOU who can't read. 675.000 men in the age of 25-54 were playing Wow, while 400.000 women of 25-54 were playing Wow according to this social study in the US.
 

Together they form the vast majority of the US Wow players: just reread the report.

The survey included a study on age, gender etc of people playing ... PC games (and games in general if you look at the PDF).

The strict US survey didn't even check the accounts being played , it was a social study with the usual social stratification.

In fact other studies showed already that mmorpg's are NOT being played by young teenagers. They prefer the consoles and shooter type of video games much more.

Originally posted by Zorndorf 

Apparently it is YOU who can't read. 675.000 men in the age of 25-54 were playing Wow, while 400.000 women of 25-54 were playing Wow according to this social study in the US.
 

Together they form the vast majority of the US Wow players: just reread the report.

The survey included a study on age, gender etc of people playing ... PC games (and games in general if you look at the PDF).

The strict US survey didn't even check the accounts being played , it was a social study with the usual social stratification.

In fact other studies showed already that mmorpg's are NOT being played by young teenagers. They prefer the consoles and shooter type of video games much more.

I did open up the link. However, as I wrote, I think the 'parent factor' is being ignored here completely. I do not trust surveys, even if they covered seventeen thousand people.

"When a program is run on a PC, the program name as well as the person(s) using the PC is collected by the meter."

Alright, but I'm still not liking the results here. I'm willing to bet that the people in that demographic are mostly 25-30 years old, leaving the rest of the WoW subscribers to significantly bring down the average age.  The total number of WoW subscribers in the 25-54-year-old demographic in the US according to the survey is then roughly 1.1 million. That is not even a majority of US subscribers, and I doubt the rest of the players, over 1.5 million of them, are over 54.

To Khaunshar...

WotLK single handedly killed the Wow killers of Aoc and War 6 months after their launch. WotLK decapitated War between the months of Oct to June this year.

The ratio between western Wow and War Xfire players these days is ... 39 to 1, while the ratio was 6 to 1 ... 9 months ago.

These games started off with 800 K copies sold within weeks after launch. They launched at the worst possible moment for Blizzard (18 months and 22 months after the last expansion pack).

Today they aren't even represented within the 2% marketshare on Xfire stats. These games are dead on server populations while Blizzard added dozens of new servers. These games had to cut 2/3 of their servers and still the majority of their servers are on low/low populations.

Last year in May-Sep Wow had a Xfire marketshare of around 55%. Today it has around the 60% marketshare.

WotLK obliterated its Wow killers in the year EVERYONE thought they would take a large chunk of Wow's subscribers, me included.

Well, they didn't put even a dent in the armor.

And referring to Wow's relaunch in China: look at the doubling of the rated Netease stocks during the last weeks. Hoping is one thing, ignoring facts is another.

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Zorndorf 

Apparently it is YOU who can't read. 675.000 men in the age of 25-54 were playing Wow, while 400.000 women of 25-54 were playing Wow according to this social study in the US.
 

Together they form the vast majority of the US Wow players: just reread the report.

The survey included a study on age, gender etc of people playing ... PC games (and games in general if you look at the PDF).

The strict US survey didn't even check the accounts being played , it was a social study with the usual social stratification.

In fact other studies showed already that mmorpg's are NOT being played by young teenagers. They prefer the consoles and shooter type of video games much more.

I did open up the link. However, as I wrote, I think the 'parent factor' is being ignored here completely. I do not trust surveys, even if they covered seventeen thousand people.

"When a program is run on a PC, the program name as well as the person(s) using the PC is collected by the meter."

Alright, but I'm still not liking the results here. I'm willing to bet that the people in that demographic are mostly 25-30 years old, leaving the rest of the WoW subscribers to significantly bring down the average age.  The total number of WoW subscribers in the 25-54-year-old demographic in the US according to the survey is then roughly 1.1 million. That is not even a majority of US subscribers, and I doubt the rest of the players, over 1.5 million of them, are over 54.

 

The graphs are there. The social study is there. And just look at your average in game guild members.

A recently study in a Dutch magazine revealed that the vast majority of the youngsters played console games (FPS, RTS, ...). Only 14% of the teenage game players played MMORPG's according to that study. And most of these guys even play FTP games.

The above study is in line with other studies that most teenagers don't play mmorpg's.

And women ARE playing video games far more than 10 years ago.

So what's the fuzz?

I just wanted to show you that such a mature public is far more FIXED to stay with a game of their choice. They have a family, kids, a job etc...

WHY do you think Blizzard caters for the casual adult players anyway :))) ?

... and I AM 53 years old and I WAS one of the first of the computer age to start playing computer games back in 1979...

A lot of you forget that people above 30 played computer games already YEARS ago.

WE were the ones playing board and computer fantasy games in the 70's and 80's. LONG before Warhammer was even invented.

Why is that so strange to understand?

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Zorndorf 

Apparently it is YOU who can't read. 675.000 men in the age of 25-54 were playing Wow, while 400.000 women of 25-54 were playing Wow according to this social study in the US.
 

Together they form the vast majority of the US Wow players: just reread the report.

The survey included a study on age, gender etc of people playing ... PC games (and games in general if you look at the PDF).

The strict US survey didn't even check the accounts being played , it was a social study with the usual social stratification.

In fact other studies showed already that mmorpg's are NOT being played by young teenagers. They prefer the consoles and shooter type of video games much more.

I did open up the link. However, as I wrote, I think the 'parent factor' is being ignored here completely. I do not trust surveys, even if they covered seventeen thousand people.

"When a program is run on a PC, the program name as well as the person(s) using the PC is collected by the meter."

Alright, but I'm still not liking the results here. I'm willing to bet that the people in that demographic are mostly 25-30 years old, leaving the rest of the WoW subscribers to significantly bring down the average age.  The total number of WoW subscribers in the 25-54-year-old demographic in the US according to the survey is then roughly 1.1 million. That is not even a majority of US subscribers, and I doubt the rest of the players, over 1.5 million of them, are over 54.

 

 

The graphs are there. The social study is there. And just look at your average in game guild members.

A recently study in a Dutch magazine revealed that the vast majority of the youngsters played console games (FPS, RTS, ...). Only 14% of the teenage game players played MMORPG's according to that study. And most of these guys even play FTP games.

The above study is in line with other studies that most teenagers don't play mmorpg's.

And women ARE playing video games far more than 10 years ago.

So what's the fuzz?

I just wanted to show you that such a mature public is far more FIXED to stay with a game of their choice. They have a family, kids, a job etc...

WHY do you think Blizzard caters for the casual adult players anyway :))) ?

 

 

I am not arguing against there being a large mature playerbase. However, you can't argue with my numbers either. From the report you linked 1.1 million US subscribers of WoW fit in the 25-54 year-old demographic, meaning the other 1.5 million subscribers do not.

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 

The graphs are there. The social study is there. And just look at your average in game guild members.

A recently study in a Dutch magazine revealed that the vast majority of the youngsters played console games (FPS, RTS, ...). Only 14% of the teenage game players played MMORPG's according to that study. And most of these guys even play FTP games.

The above study is in line with other studies that most teenagers don't play mmorpg's.

And women ARE playing video games far more than 10 years ago.

So what's the fuzz?

I just wanted to show you that such a mature public is far more FIXED to stay with a game of their choice. They have a family, kids, a job etc...

WHY do you think Blizzard caters for the casual adult players anyway :))) ?

 

 

I am not arguing against there being a large mature playerbase. However, you can't argue with my numbers either. From the report you linked 1.1 million US subscribers of WoW fit in the 25-54 year-old demographic, meaning the other 1.5 million subscribers do not.

Then read again... : they traced only ... 1.8 million US citizens. 1.1M to 1.8M is indeed the majority. And the second biggest group was ... above 54 year old. Just look at the graphs....

It was a social sample survey linked to one country, not linked to the 2.5 million players playing on US servers. (Canada, central/south America, Oceanic,...).

I'm so glad to have NOT played WoW seriously since patch 2.4.   From this standpoint, I can objectively look at the game.  I've broken free of the addiction.  In fact, empowered with that knowledge and perspective, I was able to uninstall the game completely from my computer several months ago.   No traces of WoW.exe here.

And for that, I'm infinitely grateful.

I no longer play World of WarCRACK.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Apham

 

^^^ QFT haha this made me chuckle because of how true it is. As much as we whine we are the minority. Kids like my brother ~15-16 years old never visits forums at all and are quite happy with the state of the game.

The MAJORITY of Wow players are in the age of:

25 - 54 year olds.

reference: http://www.wow.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-game-by-25-54-females/

Study of Nielsen in 2008/2009.  Study with 1.8 mullion US citizens.

So apparently members on mmorpg.com have NO clue what they are talking about :)))

Lucky for me, because I like WoW :)))

 ... yadda yadda blahblah ...hic

 

Same old madness over and over and over.

WHO OR WHAT in the name of god made such an absurd survey. Was it straight away financed by Blizzard marketing section? No doubt about that, with their 40$ mil budget solely for marketing.

Is relevant the age you sign up at your account? WoW is a payed game, you have to have a credit card or buy these game cards. Undoubtedly majority of all these accounts were made by the childrens' parents. What 14 year old KID HAS ITS OWN CREDIT CARD? Is relevant an internet survey where most of the players just use a higher age than they really have? You believe all shit happened to be placed somewhere on a blog and even dare to use it as a source. Unbelievable.

 

Apparently you have never left your PC and went to a store.    Wow and it's expansions as well as game cards are sold at many different stores with or without a credit card.  I don't know where people get the idea you actually need a CC to play mmo's these days.

Originally posted by szsleepy

I'm so glad to have NOT played WoW seriously since patch 2.4.   From this standpoint, I can objectively look at the game.  I've broken free of the addiction.  In fact, empowered with that knowledge and perspective, I was able to uninstall the game completely from my computer several months ago.   No traces of WoW.exe here.

And for that, I'm infinitely grateful.

 

I no longer play World of WarCRACK.

Good for you. But addiction to games is the same as addiction to viewing football or cycling or doing any other single purpose social activity.

Addiction to games is not the same as physical addiction to drugs (lucliky).  Those who put this in the same basket are deluding.

Behaviour is one thing, physical addiction is a complete other thing.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by szsleepy

I'm so glad to have NOT played WoW seriously since patch 2.4.   From this standpoint, I can objectively look at the game.  I've broken free of the addiction.  In fact, empowered with that knowledge and perspective, I was able to uninstall the game completely from my computer several months ago.   No traces of WoW.exe here.

And for that, I'm infinitely grateful.

 

I no longer play World of WarCRACK.

 

Good for you. But addiction to games is the same as addiction to viewing football or cycling or doing any other single purpose social activity.

Addiction to games is not the same as fysical addiction to drugs (lucliky).  Those who put this in the same basket are deluding.

Behaviour is one thing, fysical addiction is a complete other thing.

And not being able to spell "physical" is yet even another complete thing.  And NO.  Addiction, is addiction, is addiction.  No matter how you spin it.

Addiction to games is the same thing as addiction to drugs.  Both are expressions of escapism.  A heroine user takes heroin to avoid reality.  As does the average WoW player.

Go ahead.  Quit playing.  Prove me wrong.  Or, even further, do the unthinkable.  UNINSTALL.  I dare you to try.

Originally posted by szsleepy

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by szsleepy

I'm so glad to have NOT played WoW seriously since patch 2.4.   From this standpoint, I can objectively look at the game.  I've broken free of the addiction.  In fact, empowered with that knowledge and perspective, I was able to uninstall the game completely from my computer several months ago.   No traces of WoW.exe here.

And for that, I'm infinitely grateful.

 

I no longer play World of WarCRACK.

 

Good for you. But addiction to games is the same as addiction to viewing football or cycling or doing any other single purpose social activity.

Addiction to games is not the same as fysical addiction to drugs (lucliky).  Those who put this in the same basket are deluding.

Behaviour is one thing, fysical addiction is a complete other thing.

 

And not being able to spell "physical" is yet even another complete thing.

As my naitve LANGUAGES are Dutch, French AND German (as I live in Belgium) and I type without a spelling checker, I can really say I make some very good posts in the 4th language

:))))

You know there are MORE people in the world than you think.

Going on vacation without your PHysical drug is even dangerous (depending on the drug). No one bangs his head against the wall if they can't play Wow when they're on vacation.

It is an insult to people suffering from real drug addiction like heroine, when you compare a social single focused behaviour with such forms of PHysical drug addiction.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by szsleepy

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by szsleepy

I'm so glad to have NOT played WoW seriously since patch 2.4.   From this standpoint, I can objectively look at the game.  I've broken free of the addiction.  In fact, empowered with that knowledge and perspective, I was able to uninstall the game completely from my computer several months ago.   No traces of WoW.exe here.

And for that, I'm infinitely grateful.

 

I no longer play World of WarCRACK.

 

Good for you. But addiction to games is the same as addiction to viewing football or cycling or doing any other single purpose social activity.

Addiction to games is not the same as fysical addiction to drugs (lucliky).  Those who put this in the same basket are deluding.

Behaviour is one thing, fysical addiction is a complete other thing.

 

And not being able to spell "physical" is yet even another complete thing.

As my naitve LANGUAGES are Dutch, French AND German (as I live in Belgium) and I type without a spelling checker, I can really say I make some very good posts in the 4th language

:))))

You know there are MORE people in the world than you think.

Going on vacation without your PHysical drug is even dangerous (depending on the drug). No one bangs his head against the wall if they can't play Wow when they're on vacation.

It is an insult to people suffering from real drug addiction like heroine, when you compare a social single focused behaviour with such forms of PHysical drug addiction.

 

And the first stage of many twelve step addiction programs is Denial.  I'm done with this conversation.  You go ahead and rationalize your addiction like I did for so many years.  SOME DAY, you will break free, uninstall, and realize the truth of my words.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Zorndorf

 

The graphs are there. The social study is there. And just look at your average in game guild members.

A recently study in a Dutch magazine revealed that the vast majority of the youngsters played console games (FPS, RTS, ...). Only 14% of the teenage game players played MMORPG's according to that study. And most of these guys even play FTP games.

The above study is in line with other studies that most teenagers don't play mmorpg's.

And women ARE playing video games far more than 10 years ago.

So what's the fuzz?

I just wanted to show you that such a mature public is far more FIXED to stay with a game of their choice. They have a family, kids, a job etc...

WHY do you think Blizzard caters for the casual adult players anyway :))) ?

 

 

I am not arguing against there being a large mature playerbase. However, you can't argue with my numbers either. From the report you linked 1.1 million US subscribers of WoW fit in the 25-54 year-old demographic, meaning the other 1.5 million subscribers do not.

Then read again... : they traced only ... 1.8 million US citizens. 1.1M to 1.8M is indeed the majority. And the second biggest group was ... above 54 year old. Just look at the graphs....

It was a social sample survey linked to one country, not linked to the 2.5 million players playing on US servers. (Canada, central/south America, Oceanic,...).

"In total for December 2008, Nielsen shows more than 1.8 million unique persons played World of  Warcraft. For those users who played World of Warcraft, the most popular alternate game they played was Solitaire, followed by Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos."

Alright, you got me there. I still think there is something funny about these numbers. From my experience in the game, having been in multiple guilds and communities I have found the player base considerably younger than the report would suggest.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

To Khaunshar...

WotLK single handedly killed the Wow killers of Aoc and War 6 months after their launch. WotLK decapitated War between the months of Oct to June this year.

The ratio between western Wow and War Xfire players these days is ... 39 to 1, while the ratio was 6 to 1 ... 9 months ago.

These games started off with 800 K copies sold within weeks after launch. They launched at the worst possible moment for Blizzard (18 months and 22 months after the last expansion pack).

Today they aren't even represented within the 2% marketshare on Xfire stats. These games are dead on server populations while Blizzard added dozens of new servers. These games had to cut 2/3 of their servers and still the majority of their servers are on low/low populations.

Last year in May-Sep Wow had a Xfire marketshare of around 55%. Today it has around the 60% marketshare.

WotLK obliterated its Wow killers in the year EVERYONE thought they would take a large chunk of Wow's subscribers, me included.

Well, they didn't put even a dent in the armor.

And referring to Wow's relaunch in China: look at the doubling of the rated Netease stocks during the last weeks. Hoping is one thing, ignoring facts is another.

 

Erm who cares about what game was promoted as the Wow Killer? No MMO was ever killed by another MMO. And what you are blathering about here isnt even remotely related to my argument.

WotLK, including its sales and probably the first 2 months or so until a large number of people hit the content-cap, stood on the legs of BC. WotLK didnt sell supremely well due to its new gameplay, the various changes etc., because all that wasnt known at that time, and all that new stuff had not been experienced. Until christmas and probably until the beginning of 2009, WotLK sold based on the success of the "old" WoW. Just like Age of Conan and Warhammer, since you seem to love to bring these games in for whatever reason, sold over 1 Million copies in the first few weeks due to hype, NOT due to the quality of the game.

Since WotLK has settled, player numbers have for the first time since WoWs existence not risen to the next milestone, and by now thats 7 months roughly. THAT is a fact, and on that one I base my argument that something is not going as well as it used to go in BC. My personal interpretation is that the drastic changes in the nature of the game from BC to WotLK did not have the desired effect of getting even more people excited. I think the game is, at this point, gaining as much as it loses, because with these sales numbers, there is no way in hell they are not getting new players in.... but if the subscriber numbers do not increase, that means they lose close to the same number.

I dont give two shits about any other MMORPG, this is solely, as is this thread, a comparison of WoWs influence of WoW. And I think the lesson to be learned here is that WotLK did not fulfill the wishes of the players as well as BC, and leaves a lot to be desired. I also believe the shortening of the games content, and the cheapening of many aspects, are largely at fault, together with a decidedly lacking variety of endgame gameplay  in Wrath, which BC offered far better, and esp. far more logical. People are consuming content at a far higher rate due to the higher speed, the simplicity and the shortcuts. But it doesnt seem to satisfy as much as it did in BC, and it doesnt keep them around as long as it seems.

Dont get me wrong, WoW isnt going anywhere anytime soon. I fully believe that the next expansion is going to turn the game back towards Game, away from passive Entertainment. But again I claim WotLK is not the success it should have been in terms of player numbers. BC was more successful.

Originally posted by snotgobb

Each patch they make it easier for scrubs. Giving free epics away. Lower level mounts. Power leveling. Thanks Blizzard for screwing the game.

And the funny thing is all those srubs think their epics are special.  Little do they know is that purple is the new green.  There IS no such thing as epic gear in WoW anymore, and the veterans know it.

None of the new scrubs that started playing when BC or WotLK came out know of the days when raiding was massively hard, and being in a good raid guild was difficult to achieve.  Hours of slogging through Molten Core to get geared up for BWL.  Having you guild nearly implode after trying to kill Vael week after week only to JUST barely fail because of one unlikely Burning Adrenaline debuff or having a rogue pull aggro.  Encounters so twisted and where execution had to per PERFECT that it destroyed many guilds.  Back then vanity mounts meant something.  Killing Mandokir to get his raptor mount...ultra rare.  Getting Thekal's tiger mount...ultra rare.  Gates of AQ mounts....f'ing uber rare (2 per server).  Now mounts are crawling out of everyone's arse.  Nothing is special or earned in WoW anymore...it's handed to players on silver platters while they sit by the pool and sip mint julips.

Epics meant something back then.  You had a full set of Might, Wrath, etc (I played a warrior back in the day)...you KNEW that person earned it and you knew their gear kicked the shit out of anything else available in the game.  You knew they had battled and defeated the likes of Onyxia, Rag, Hakkar, Nef, C'Thun, Kel and you had little hope of defeating these enemies of Azeroth.  The only way to get it was to work your arse off and know how to play your class and contribute to the bottomline.

It's ironic that this game is has become gear centric, but there's absolutely no challenge to getting it now.

It's fine that WoW sold out to ezmode.  What bothered me were all the new players who thought that clearing Kharazan was hard (or any other post-vanilla raid for that matter) and that their badge gear was "epic" even though EVERYONE had the same stuff.  L...M...F...A...OFF!!

Thanks god I quit this game after BC, because it's become a joke at the expense of new players who think they are "it."

Originally posted by szsleepy

And the first stage of many twelve step addiction programs is Denial.  I'm done with this conversation.  You go ahead and rationalize your addiction like I did for so many years.  SOME DAY, you will break free, uninstall, and realize the truth of my words.

Whoa there Mr. Holier-than-thou.

First off, there is a difference between mental addiction and physical chemical dependency. 

Secondly, quitting a game is not an impressive feat.  Go out there and achieve something noteworthy, that way you have some kind of an excuse for being arrogant.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by szsleepy

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by szsleepy

I'm so glad to have NOT played WoW seriously since patch 2.4.   From this standpoint, I can objectively look at the game.  I've broken free of the addiction.  In fact, empowered with that knowledge and perspective, I was able to uninstall the game completely from my computer several months ago.   No traces of WoW.exe here.

And for that, I'm infinitely grateful.

 

I no longer play World of WarCRACK.

 

Good for you. But addiction to games is the same as addiction to viewing football or cycling or doing any other single purpose social activity.

Addiction to games is not the same as fysical addiction to drugs (lucliky).  Those who put this in the same basket are deluding.

Behaviour is one thing, fysical addiction is a complete other thing.

 

And not being able to spell "physical" is yet even another complete thing.

As my naitve LANGUAGES are Dutch, French AND German (as I live in Belgium) and I type without a spelling checker, I can really say I make some very good posts in the 4th language

:))))

You know there are MORE people in the world than you think.

Going on vacation without your PHysical drug is even dangerous (depending on the drug). No one bangs his head against the wall if they can't play Wow when they're on vacation.

It is an insult to people suffering from real drug addiction like heroine, when you compare a social single focused behaviour with such forms of PHysical drug addiction.

 

I am going to have to disagree with this.

My buddy (true story) physically left our home state 5 days ago on a 2 week trip to Florida for Disney. He went with his wife, and 2 sons.

What did my buddy take with him. Cloths, check, socks, check, underwear, check, toothbrush, check, laptop, check.

He stopped by my house literally 2 hours before the trip to pick up MY copy of WotLK.

He lost his but "needed" it before he left.

The next day I get a call on my cell to help him setup his wi-fi from his hotel room because he had successfully installed his "WotLK".

2 week vacation that was intended to be a trip to Disney to spend time with his wife and 2 sons, ends up being a 2 week waste of money for him to sit in a very expensive hotel room to raid with his imaginary friends.

Addiction REALLY is addiction.

WoW if you choose to admit it or not, for most people, IS an A-D-D-I-C-T-I-O-N.