Originally posted by WOWthatsucks

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Darkfail fans  Just consitently confuse sand box with litter box, which is what AV created.

Case in point! these are the comments we need to stop! what is the point of it other than getting post count up? it adds nothing to any disscusion and just gives other sites a chance to smile at us! surely you have more to offer than that friend.
 

Why is Darkfall a litter box? tell potential buyers why they shouldnt buy the game or why you think they shouldnt.

 

THIS IS A FUROM FOR PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT THE GAME,... NOT A FORUM FOR ONLY POTENTIAL BUYERS.

AND I BELIEVE HE DID IT FOR A LAUGH... WICH IS WHAT DFO IS... SO MIGHT HAVE HIT IT RIGHT ON THE NAIL....

your right mate it is to talk about games and not just for buyers. i apologise. but i do think there is a reason this site gets such a bad reputation and thats because we dont discuss! msn is for random slander. forums should be to discuss. some of us can and some of us can't :) the poit of conversing is to add something. for instance i give AV credit for creating a smooth seamless world that runs on my average computer..which the OP mentioned in this discussion..,Credit! can you add anything to it?

Originally posted by rhinok

Originally posted by doobster

Originally posted by rhinok

 and couldn't do squat.  That's entertainment...  I should have been able to kill their NPCs (or at least die trying), break into their bank, set fire to their buildings, etc...,  I shouldn't have to be in a clan in order to do any of these things (some of which you can't do, like rob the bank, even if you're in a clan).  If the empty hamlet belonged to my race/alliance, there should be consequences to my actions (except maybe robbing their bank, if I'm a good thief - how would they know it was me?).  If it belonged to another faction, I should get alignment points for causing mayhem there.

• Can I build a house? No
• Can I set up a farmstead or mine? No
• Can I have my own store, either brick-and-mortar or online? No - I can only spam the trade channel.
• Do I have to be in a group in order to kill most mobs?  Yes
• Can I rob an unprotected bank? No
• Do I have to be in a clan in order to  particpate in most activies (sieging, building, etc...)? Yes 
• Can my clan build their hamlet or city anywhere they want?  No
• Can my clan build their hamlet or city any way they want? No

So, what are the sandbox aspects of Darkfall?  Crafting?  Politics? That's it?  Those mechanics exist in most other games, too, and done better (auction houses or individual shops, for example).

I'm starting to think Aventurine's definition of sandbox is "game that's not finished yet"

~Ripper

 

 

Solo-friendly doesn't equal sand-box.  Do you have to be in a clan to participate in sieging... gosh I sure hope so, because a 1 man siege will look quite silly.  UO would answer most of those questions you asked in a similar way, and it was still very much a sand-box.  I think that on a scale from Dropped-into-a-completely-empty-world-total-anarchy-clusterf*** and Follow-the-sheeple-in-front-of-you, Darkfall is infinitely closer to pure sand-boxism then 90% other games on the market.

You missed the point entirely and take things out of context:

• I never said a game had to be solo-friendly to be a sandbox. I said that forcing players to be in clans wasn't sandbox.  There are semantic differences.  The reality is that "any" player should be able to experience a sandbox game, whether solo or in a clan.  Their options might not be the same (individual player housing vs. clan cities, for example), but they should all have opportunity. 
• Sieging - I never said soloists should be able to siege.  Sieging was merely listed as one of the major game features that non-guilded players can't participate in.

Darkfall, in it's present state, is a clan game.  Major emphasis is on clan features, not player features (solo or not), which is one of the reasons it fails to be a true sandbox.

~Ripper

No.  I got the point.  You we're arguing that it is not a sand-box, and I agree, and there is no confusion as to what a 100% sandbox game is compared to DF.   I also specifically said this is a team-oriented game where clan politics play a major role and small bands of players will have more influence over the local environment at any given time, compared to a solo player who's game-play is at the influence of groups of players.

But you used little examples of what the game doesnt have as your posted justification for not getting involved and/or bashing the game-play, and/or not classifying it as a sandbox, which is what I was responding to, and I simply think that if you want to play a sandbox, go play one. 

But again, no one should classify DF as a 100% sandbox, though again, it is a very freedom-based player-centric ecosystem mmorpg that transcends being tethered by invisible pve barriers, and with a great deal of well-implented features, than compared to pve and rvr centric games. 

So if one needs that safety space where they need to play singularly in an environment where players wont interefere with them often, then AoC, WAR or Aion might be good choices for having a mix between pve and safety areas vs open pvp areas.

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by WOWthatsucks

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Darkfail fans  Just consitently confuse sand box with litter box, which is what AV created.

Case in point! these are the comments we need to stop! what is the point of it other than getting post count up? it adds nothing to any disscusion and just gives other sites a chance to smile at us! surely you have more to offer than that friend.
 

Why is Darkfall a litter box? tell potential buyers why they shouldnt buy the game or why you think they shouldnt.

 

THIS IS A FUROM FOR PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT THE GAME,... NOT A FORUM FOR ONLY POTENTIAL BUYERS.

AND I BELIEVE HE DID IT FOR A LAUGH... WICH IS WHAT DFO IS... SO MIGHT HAVE HIT IT RIGHT ON THE NAIL....

 

your right mate it is to talk about games and not just for buyers. i apologise. but i do think there is a reason this site gets such a bad reputation and thats because we dont discuss! msn is for random slander. forums should be to discuss. some of us can and some of us can't :) the poit of conversing is to add something. for instance i give AV credit for creating a smooth seamless world that runs on my average computer..which the OP mentioned in this discussion..,Credit! can you add anything to it?

OF COURSE I COULD ADD SOMTHING TO IT.. BUT WHY BEAT THE DEAD HORSE>?

AND IT RUNS ON A AVERAGE PC, BECAUSE THERE IS NOT LIFE OUT THERE TO SLOW IT DOWN.. LIKE MOBS PLAYERS AND ACTION LOL.. THE SOUND IS SO 2001 LIKE THE ANIMATIONS.. IF A 2008-9 PC CANT RUN A GAME FROM 2001'ISH, LETS JUST SAY THE PC INDUSTRY IS WAY BETTER AT THIS THEN SAY UMMM AV...

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Darkfail fans  Just consitently confuse sand box with litter box, which is what AV created.

Case in point! these are the comments we need to stop! what is the point of it other than getting post count up? it adds nothing to any disscusion and just gives other sites a chance to smile at us! surely you have more to offer than that friend.
 

Why is Darkfall a litter box? tell potential buyers why they shouldnt buy the game or why you think they shouldnt.

 

seriously?

I guess the same reason you should not play games of 3 card monty on street corners.

The entire thing is a scam. Look at the development history and everything out of Tasos' mouth has been a lie.. there is no reason to list reasons that have been listed in every other thread.  If the situation warrants it I do have more to offer but in this case it is not warranted.

My last comment is nothing short of fact, and this is undisputable.

 

of course i am serious friend.
 

Fact you say? undisputably you are wrong. it is simply a game. that is fact and something you can't argue about! it's ok to argue about tasos mouth etc, but why continue about that when i have already agreed with you? doesn't make sense! but for the sake of players who want to know about the game...why can't people like you offer them help? why can't you give your opinion about your playing experience in the game? why can't you offer what you thought was bad about the core pf the game, or the technical side of the game? thats what people are looking for not just useless comments!

I am just asking you to offer something worthwhile that's all. please dont get upset about it :)

 

I am in no way shape or form wrong. But you know what man? you win. I yeild. I cant go back and forth with you ultra lib reward bad behavior types. The fact is I and everyone else who have commonsense regarding Darkfall has stated real factual issues with this game. Im simply not going to in every thread. So what I said is just a short and sweet version of what I have said before. Sorry If I have offended you Mr. Rogers. It is just simply not a beautiful day in my neighborhood today.

Haha dont worry mate you didn't offend me. i'm just having a bit of fun with you :)

But again you can't just label what you say as fact and think you are right! fact is it is just your opinion friend. like or not that is all it is :) so please dont use the word if you can't understand it's true meaning :) also i think i actually have a meagre bit of common sense, and i still play it. Haha i'm guessing you havent actually played the game have you? go on...you can say it...we already know the answer :) .....so cute!

Am i really a ultra lib bad behaviour type lol? thats something to take home to the missus haha!

Oh ye back on topic. I give credit to AV for listening to current players and at least attempting to put things right! but i also have to say " sort that damned site out AV" it has started so many threads, and rightly so. dont mislead potential customers.

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

I agree that what would compel many to continue would be non-instanced player housing;but then again, there isnt an mmo that offers it.

On this point in particular, and I will admit it has been a while, but last time I played, SWG was non-instance player housing. Additionally, you could place vendors in your house, decorate it however you wanted using any object (armor, weapons, furniture, resources, etc), and set access permissions. Placement was fairly liberal with terrain determining whether you could place your house and you could set your flora farmers working just steps from your front door if the resources in the area were right.

Now, to add to the sandbox argument, you could do all this without picking up a weapon of any sort and, if you chose, without a player association/guild, though being in a PA didn't hurt your gaming options.

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Darkfail fans  Just consitently confuse sand box with litter box, which is what AV created.

Case in point! these are the comments we need to stop! what is the point of it other than getting post count up? it adds nothing to any disscusion and just gives other sites a chance to smile at us! surely you have more to offer than that friend.
 

Why is Darkfall a litter box? tell potential buyers why they shouldnt buy the game or why you think they shouldnt.

 

seriously?

I guess the same reason you should not play games of 3 card monty on street corners.

The entire thing is a scam. Look at the development history and everything out of Tasos' mouth has been a lie.. there is no reason to list reasons that have been listed in every other thread.  If the situation warrants it I do have more to offer but in this case it is not warranted.

My last comment is nothing short of fact, and this is undisputable.

 

of course i am serious friend.
 

Fact you say? undisputably you are wrong. it is simply a game. that is fact and something you can't argue about! it's ok to argue about tasos mouth etc, but why continue about that when i have already agreed with you? doesn't make sense! but for the sake of players who want to know about the game...why can't people like you offer them help? why can't you give your opinion about your playing experience in the game? why can't you offer what you thought was bad about the core pf the game, or the technical side of the game? thats what people are looking for not just useless comments!

I am just asking you to offer something worthwhile that's all. please dont get upset about it :)

 

I am in no way shape or form wrong. But you know what man? you win. I yeild. I cant go back and forth with you ultra lib reward bad behavior types. The fact is I and everyone else who have commonsense regarding Darkfall has stated real factual issues with this game. Im simply not going to in every thread. So what I said is just a short and sweet version of what I have said before. Sorry If I have offended you Mr. Rogers. It is just simply not a beautiful day in my neighborhood today.

 

Haha dont worry mate you didn't offend me. i'm just having a bit of fun with you :)

But again you can't just label what you say as fact and think you are right! fact is it is just your opinion friend. like or not that is all it is :) so please dont use the word if you can't understand it's true meaning :) also i think i actually have a meagre bit of common sense, and i still play it. Haha i'm guessing you havent actually played the game have you? go on...you can say it...we already know the answer :) .....so cute!

Am i really a ultra lib bad behaviour type lol? thats something to take home to the missus haha!

Oh ye back on topic. I give credit to AV for listening to current players and at least attempting to put things right! but i also have to say " sort that damned site out AV" it has started so many threads, and rightly so. dont mislead potential customers.

First of all I know what fact means.

No I do not and have not played Darkfall. As i have said, I have common sense.  I would not by a car with 2 wheels and no transmission, or play 3 card monty on the street, which is what a person who plays Darkfall has in essence done.

What gives you the Idea that AV is attempting to put things right?

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Darkfail fans  Just consitently confuse sand box with litter box, which is what AV created.

Case in point! these are the comments we need to stop! what is the point of it other than getting post count up? it adds nothing to any disscusion and just gives other sites a chance to smile at us! surely you have more to offer than that friend.
 

Why is Darkfall a litter box? tell potential buyers why they shouldnt buy the game or why you think they shouldnt.

 

seriously?

I guess the same reason you should not play games of 3 card monty on street corners.

The entire thing is a scam. Look at the development history and everything out of Tasos' mouth has been a lie.. there is no reason to list reasons that have been listed in every other thread.  If the situation warrants it I do have more to offer but in this case it is not warranted.

My last comment is nothing short of fact, and this is undisputable.

 

of course i am serious friend.
 

Fact you say? undisputably you are wrong. it is simply a game. that is fact and something you can't argue about! it's ok to argue about tasos mouth etc, but why continue about that when i have already agreed with you? doesn't make sense! but for the sake of players who want to know about the game...why can't people like you offer them help? why can't you give your opinion about your playing experience in the game? why can't you offer what you thought was bad about the core pf the game, or the technical side of the game? thats what people are looking for not just useless comments!

I am just asking you to offer something worthwhile that's all. please dont get upset about it :)

 

I am in no way shape or form wrong. But you know what man? you win. I yeild. I cant go back and forth with you ultra lib reward bad behavior types. The fact is I and everyone else who have commonsense regarding Darkfall has stated real factual issues with this game. Im simply not going to in every thread. So what I said is just a short and sweet version of what I have said before. Sorry If I have offended you Mr. Rogers. It is just simply not a beautiful day in my neighborhood today.

 

Haha dont worry mate you didn't offend me. i'm just having a bit of fun with you :)

But again you can't just label what you say as fact and think you are right! fact is it is just your opinion friend. like or not that is all it is :) so please dont use the word if you can't understand it's true meaning :) also i think i actually have a meagre bit of common sense, and i still play it. Haha i'm guessing you havent actually played the game have you? go on...you can say it...we already know the answer :) .....so cute!

Am i really a ultra lib bad behaviour type lol? thats something to take home to the missus haha!

Oh ye back on topic. I give credit to AV for listening to current players and at least attempting to put things right! but i also have to say " sort that damned site out AV" it has started so many threads, and rightly so. dont mislead potential customers.

 

No I do not and have not played Darkfall.

*chuckles*  da da duh

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Originally posted by rhinok

Originally posted by doobster

Originally posted by rhinok

 and couldn't do squat.  That's entertainment...  I should have been able to kill their NPCs (or at least die trying), break into their bank, set fire to their buildings, etc...,  I shouldn't have to be in a clan in order to do any of these things (some of which you can't do, like rob the bank, even if you're in a clan).  If the empty hamlet belonged to my race/alliance, there should be consequences to my actions (except maybe robbing their bank, if I'm a good thief - how would they know it was me?).  If it belonged to another faction, I should get alignment points for causing mayhem there.

• Can I build a house? No
• Can I set up a farmstead or mine? No
• Can I have my own store, either brick-and-mortar or online? No - I can only spam the trade channel.
• Do I have to be in a group in order to kill most mobs?  Yes
• Can I rob an unprotected bank? No
• Do I have to be in a clan in order to  particpate in most activies (sieging, building, etc...)? Yes 
• Can my clan build their hamlet or city anywhere they want?  No
• Can my clan build their hamlet or city any way they want? No

So, what are the sandbox aspects of Darkfall?  Crafting?  Politics? That's it?  Those mechanics exist in most other games, too, and done better (auction houses or individual shops, for example).

I'm starting to think Aventurine's definition of sandbox is "game that's not finished yet"

~Ripper

 

 

Solo-friendly doesn't equal sand-box.  Do you have to be in a clan to participate in sieging... gosh I sure hope so, because a 1 man siege will look quite silly.  UO would answer most of those questions you asked in a similar way, and it was still very much a sand-box.  I think that on a scale from Dropped-into-a-completely-empty-world-total-anarchy-clusterf*** and Follow-the-sheeple-in-front-of-you, Darkfall is infinitely closer to pure sand-boxism then 90% other games on the market.

You missed the point entirely and take things out of context:

• I never said a game had to be solo-friendly to be a sandbox. I said that forcing players to be in clans wasn't sandbox.  There are semantic differences.  The reality is that "any" player should be able to experience a sandbox game, whether solo or in a clan.  Their options might not be the same (individual player housing vs. clan cities, for example), but they should all have opportunity. 
• Sieging - I never said soloists should be able to siege.  Sieging was merely listed as one of the major game features that non-guilded players can't participate in.

Darkfall, in it's present state, is a clan game.  Major emphasis is on clan features, not player features (solo or not), which is one of the reasons it fails to be a true sandbox.

~Ripper

 

No.  I got the point.  You we're arguing that it is not a sand-box, and I agree, and there is no confusion as to what a 100% sandbox game is compared to DF.   I also specifically said this is a team-oriented game where clan politics play a major role and small bands of players will have more influence over the local environment at any given time, compared to a solo player who's game-play is at the influence of groups of players.

 

But you used little examples of what the game doesnt have as your posted justification for not getting involved and/or bashing the game-play, and/or not classifying it as a sandbox, which is what I was responding to, and I simply think that if you want to play a sandbox, go play one. 

 

But again, no one should classify DF as a 100% sandbox, though again, it is a very freedom-based player-centric ecosystem mmorpg that transcends being tethered by invisible pve barriers, and with a great deal of well-implented features, than compared to pve and rvr centric games. 

 

So if one needs that safety space where they need to play singularly in an environment where players wont interefere with them often, then AoC, WAR or Aion might be good choices for having a mix between pve and safety areas vs open pvp areas.

So, you're posting from two or more different accounts? I didn't explicitly reply to you, nor did I quote you, but your reply implies I did.

My original reply was based on Javac's assertion that "DF is a sandbox MMO".  It's not. Nowhere in my replies have I said that one shouldn't play Darkfall because it's not a sandbox, nor did I bash the game play.  I was simply refuting his unqualified comment.

~Ripper

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Darkfail fans  Just consitently confuse sand box with litter box, which is what AV created.

Case in point! these are the comments we need to stop! what is the point of it other than getting post count up? it adds nothing to any disscusion and just gives other sites a chance to smile at us! surely you have more to offer than that friend.
 

Why is Darkfall a litter box? tell potential buyers why they shouldnt buy the game or why you think they shouldnt.

 

seriously?

I guess the same reason you should not play games of 3 card monty on street corners.

The entire thing is a scam. Look at the development history and everything out of Tasos' mouth has been a lie.. there is no reason to list reasons that have been listed in every other thread.  If the situation warrants it I do have more to offer but in this case it is not warranted.

My last comment is nothing short of fact, and this is undisputable.

 

of course i am serious friend.
 

Fact you say? undisputably you are wrong. it is simply a game. that is fact and something you can't argue about! it's ok to argue about tasos mouth etc, but why continue about that when i have already agreed with you? doesn't make sense! but for the sake of players who want to know about the game...why can't people like you offer them help? why can't you give your opinion about your playing experience in the game? why can't you offer what you thought was bad about the core pf the game, or the technical side of the game? thats what people are looking for not just useless comments!

I am just asking you to offer something worthwhile that's all. please dont get upset about it :)

 

I am in no way shape or form wrong. But you know what man? you win. I yeild. I cant go back and forth with you ultra lib reward bad behavior types. The fact is I and everyone else who have commonsense regarding Darkfall has stated real factual issues with this game. Im simply not going to in every thread. So what I said is just a short and sweet version of what I have said before. Sorry If I have offended you Mr. Rogers. It is just simply not a beautiful day in my neighborhood today.

 

Haha dont worry mate you didn't offend me. i'm just having a bit of fun with you :)

But again you can't just label what you say as fact and think you are right! fact is it is just your opinion friend. like or not that is all it is :) so please dont use the word if you can't understand it's true meaning :) also i think i actually have a meagre bit of common sense, and i still play it. Haha i'm guessing you havent actually played the game have you? go on...you can say it...we already know the answer :) .....so cute!

Am i really a ultra lib bad behaviour type lol? thats something to take home to the missus haha!

Oh ye back on topic. I give credit to AV for listening to current players and at least attempting to put things right! but i also have to say " sort that damned site out AV" it has started so many threads, and rightly so. dont mislead potential customers.

 

No I do not and have not played Darkfall.

*chuckles*  da da duh

 

What? I just got done saying I have common sense.... why would I need to play Darkfail to say it sucks?
 

Originally posted by oddjobs74

What? I just got done saying I have common sense.... why would I need to play Darkfail to say it sucks?
 

Well, even the people here who *do* play it and give actual first-hand accounts don't "get away with" saying it sucks... What chance do you think you have?

Rule #1 of being a rabid DF fan: You must never.. *ever* say, or allow to be said, anything negative of DF, nor anything related to it. Lie, spin, distort, misinterpret, contradict and obfuscate as much as necessary to defend it... That's acceptable. But never, ever allow a negative, or even mildly critical statement about DF, Tasos or AV go unpunished.

That's pretty much their code.
 

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by oddjobs74

What? I just got done saying I have common sense.... why would I need to play Darkfail to say it sucks?
 

 

Well, even the people here who *do* play it and give actual first-hand accounts don't "get away with" saying it sucks... What chance do you think you have?

Rule #1 of being a rabid DF fan: You must never.. *ever* say, or allow to be said, anything negative of DF, nor anything related to it. Lie, spin, distort, misinterpret, contradict and obfuscate as much as necessary to defend it... That's acceptable. But never, ever allow a negative, or even mildly critical statement about DF, Tasos or AV go unpunished.

That's pretty much their code.
 

And it works! It made me compelled to buy the game because I wanted to be able to say first hand what the game was really like. I don't regret it, but it was an expensive adventure that only lasted a couple days. Some fun was had.
 

Originally posted by oddjobs74

 

First of all I know what fact means.

No I do not and have not played Darkfall. As i have said, I have common sense.  I would not by a car with 2 wheels and no transmission, or play 3 card monty on the street, which is what a person who plays Darkfall has in essence done.

What gives you the Idea that AV is attempting to put things right?

So to summarize facts

1) You not have played DarkFall

2) If you make statements about the game they pulled out of your ass

3) You troll these forum

4) it was very nice of you to share us that piece of information, we now are able to form a justified opinion about your opinions lol

You dont need to try something to know that its a peice of crap.

This whole you didnt try it so stfugtfogmfban attitude shows how great the df community is.

The worst thing about df isnt that there is only one feature to this game: full loot. The main problem is its community, hell even the goons seem like jolly good fellows compared to you guys.

Originally posted by beaverz

You dont need to try something to know that its a peice of crap.

This whole you didnt try it so stfugtfogmfban attitude shows how great the df community is.

The worst thing about df isnt that there is only one feature to this game: full loot. The main problem is its community, hell even the goons seem like jolly good fellows compared to you guys.

You not need to know something to pass judgement. Sure any moron has at least an opinion on something and even talks about his opinion even with no one asking him about. 

Having no first hand experience is good for forming a qualified opinion.

Having read no information about something helps to form a opinion.

oh Wait ..the opinion becomes piece of crap

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

 <Mod Edit>

darth then GTFO of these forums, you accuse people of trolling yet you are the most ridiculous troll beside javac that i have ever encountered in any game i have played so far. if you have such a problem with most of the "blind haters" then deliver reasonable arguments or shut the fuck up and go to your official forum moderated by no life weirdos that delete any reasonable critique but let people with nicks like adolf stalin post freely or other retards that insult community members in disgusting and horrible ways.

THIS IS A FORUM FREE FOR DISCUSSION ABOUT DF AND MOST OF US HAVE PLAYED THE GAME.

... take your time, read it a few times and let it sink.

either discuss like a mature or keep on spinning and lying, insulting and ignoring or even blocking people you cannot compete with on an intellectual level and report them for so called "trolling".

you blame others for trolling and blind hate yet you posted charles manson pics to insult members here that dared to speak against j00 pwnzOr game lawl!11elevendy

you are not hardcore, you can't deal with forum pvp. you are weak.

Originally posted by rhinok

Originally posted by doobster

Originally posted by rhinok

 and couldn't do squat.  That's entertainment...  I should have been able to kill their NPCs (or at least die trying), break into their bank, set fire to their buildings, etc...,  I shouldn't have to be in a clan in order to do any of these things (some of which you can't do, like rob the bank, even if you're in a clan).  If the empty hamlet belonged to my race/alliance, there should be consequences to my actions (except maybe robbing their bank, if I'm a good thief - how would they know it was me?).  If it belonged to another faction, I should get alignment points for causing mayhem there.

• Can I build a house? No
• Can I set up a farmstead or mine? No
• Can I have my own store, either brick-and-mortar or online? No - I can only spam the trade channel.
• Do I have to be in a group in order to kill most mobs?  Yes
• Can I rob an unprotected bank? No
• Do I have to be in a clan in order to  particpate in most activies (sieging, building, etc...)? Yes 
• Can my clan build their hamlet or city anywhere they want?  No
• Can my clan build their hamlet or city any way they want? No

So, what are the sandbox aspects of Darkfall?  Crafting?  Politics? That's it?  Those mechanics exist in most other games, too, and done better (auction houses or individual shops, for example).

I'm starting to think Aventurine's definition of sandbox is "game that's not finished yet"

~Ripper

 

 

Solo-friendly doesn't equal sand-box.  Do you have to be in a clan to participate in sieging... gosh I sure hope so, because a 1 man siege will look quite silly.  UO would answer most of those questions you asked in a similar way, and it was still very much a sand-box.  I think that on a scale from Dropped-into-a-completely-empty-world-total-anarchy-clusterf*** and Follow-the-sheeple-in-front-of-you, Darkfall is infinitely closer to pure sand-boxism then 90% other games on the market.

You missed the point entirely and take things out of context:

• I never said a game had to be solo-friendly to be a sandbox. I said that forcing players to be in clans wasn't sandbox.  There are semantic differences.  The reality is that "any" player should be able to experience a sandbox game, whether solo or in a clan.  Their options might not be the same (individual player housing vs. clan cities, for example), but they should all have opportunity. 
• Sieging - I never said soloists should be able to siege.  Sieging was merely listed as one of the major game features that non-guilded players can't participate in.

Darkfall, in it's present state, is a clan game.  Major emphasis is on clan features, not player features (solo or not), which is one of the reasons it fails to be a true sandbox.

~Ripper

Agree 101%!

This is the core definition of sandbox, something that doobster did not understand in your previous post. The whole point of sandbox (even the name itself suggests this) is sitting in a box of sand and building your own adventures. any kind of restrictions, and i do stress ANY restriction, limits that sandboxiness (pardon the term) of the game.

In case of other games, AoC is limited by very restrictive geography, so it did not feel too sandbox to me if i saw a mountain in the distance but I could not get to it... ever. WoW is also not a sandbox game, its to static, the world does not change around you no matter what you do. DF tries to be sandbox, but it has these severe limitation due to open PvP. Because of that alone, you are forced to join clans and in general you are restricted to specific (and very few) activities.

As rhinok mentioned, being solo friendly does not necessarily mean that you alone can do what a whole clan can - that would be silly and there would be no need for clans. But, you should still be able to do SOMETHING. WoW, SWG(original) and Horizons are/were the closest to being sandbox from this perspective.

In WoW, I have a trade network and I have basically monopolized few trade items, thus having a really nice stable income. I had to beat my competition by underselling the product i was trading in, but eventually competition died out and now my product is being sold exclusively most of the time. That is pretty sandbox to me, I built my own little trading empire on my own. I only have one level 80 toon (1 month old), 2 77 and several others ranging between 30 and 55. I am not hardcore and I just recently started raiding 10 man Nax. Point is, I managed to accomplish reasonable success without being forced to join a guild or play 10 hours a day just playing the market, buing low, selling high, etc.

SWG (original) was even more sandbox that that. I would have to run around scouting for best quality materials because parts that i wanted to manufacture depend on the quality of the resources they are built from. And the items I build from those parts also depend on the quality of those parts. So the lazier I am, the worse quality item I produce. I could build resource-extracting machinery pretty much anywhere in the world, it was not uncommon to walk in the wilderness and suddenly find yourself surrounded by a massive ore-extracting field(s) and even whole player cities. Those cities were built where you wanted them and however you wanted them.This freedom was not restricted to guilds only. Sure, being in a guild helped a lot, but it was not required.

I think the original SWG was as close to being sandbox in my experience, and from what I hear about DF, its far far away from being sandbox. mostly because of all the restrictions that are implied by FFA PvP. Ironically, DF is very restrictive in most of its aspects because of the unrestrictive nature of PvP. AV sacrificed sandbox in all its aspects  to have that single sandbox pvp element. A bad trade IMO.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by oddjobs74

 

First of all I know what fact means.

No I do not and have not played Darkfall. As i have said, I have common sense.  I would not by a car with 2 wheels and no transmission, or play 3 card monty on the street, which is what a person who plays Darkfall has in essence done.

What gives you the Idea that AV is attempting to put things right?

 

So to summarize facts

1) You not have played DarkFall

2) If you make statements about the game they pulled out of your ass

3) You troll these forum

4) it was very nice of you to share us that piece of information, we now are able to form a justified opinion about your opinions lol

To summarize facts:
 

1. I do not have to eat a turd to say I will not enjoy the taste of it. I just know it is not good. Just like I will not buy a car with only 2 wheels and no transmission, which is what the Darkfall paid beta is.

2. There is no statement pulled out of my ass.. see #1 I only speak facts.

3. The only trolls are the fan bots. end of story case close this is undisputable.

4. Whatever

Originally posted by pwnzorellOr 

" you are not hardcore, you can't deal with forum pvp. you are weak."

LOL, quote worthy material.

There is no single definition of sandbox, we all have our own ideas of what constitutes one.

One of the better description someone else once posted was that a sand-box type game does not force (or strongly encourage) the player down any particular course of action but provides a large number of tools for the players to influence the game world and make their own mark on it.

I think peoples issue with Darkfall is that it provides far fewer tools for playing in the sandbox, vs a game such as EVE which provides considerably more.

Now its true, EVE didn't have a full set of tools at launch, and neither does DF.  But I think people expected DF to have far more than it currently has, and they have doubts that Aventurine can really deliver a lot more of them.

I don't play, so I cannot say with certainty that DF is staggering, but I do believe that they are suffering financial problems caused by a lack of captal and subscribers.  History has shown us that games in this state frequently don't last long enough to become the games they were meant to be.

CCP managed to pull it off somehow, but I'm sure it was a near thing at times and there's no telling if DF will survive in the long haul or go the way of Auto Assault or TR.

Been lurking for a while and have a question that maybe one of the more reasonable people can answer.

Are Darth and Javac paid employees of AV that actually are Mods here on MMORPG which is why they don't get banned? There has to be someone in bed with someone else on MMORPG staff to get away with what those 2 do.

I have over the last 4 months seen people get banned for using words that Mods don't understand all the while Javac and Darth flame people constantly and troll their little hearts out and seem to get away with it?

So does anyone know the answer? Are they actually Mods that are also paid AV shills?

Originally posted by JTBanker

Been lurking for a while and have a question that maybe one of the more reasonable people can answer.

Are Darth and Javac paid employees of AV that actually are Mods here on MMORPG which is why they don't get banned? There has to be someone in bed with someone else on MMORPG staff to get away with what those 2 do.

I have over the last 4 months seen people get banned for using words that Mods don't understand all the while Javac and Darth flame people constantly and troll their little hearts out and seem to get away with it?

So does anyone know the answer? Are they actually Mods that are also paid AV shills?

Wondering the same thing myself I get banned every time I have any exchange with either of them.

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Wondering the same thing myself I get banned every time I have any exchange with either of them.

The only issue I have with posters the likes of Darth and Javac are that people actually make the effort to reply and debate with them.  Which we all know, except for the amusement factor, is completely pointless.  If reasonable people would just add them to their block list and move on you can imagine how quiet these forums would be.

Originally posted by javac

out of curiosity, what were you expecting? WOW with full loot? did you research the game at all before buying? What game did you come from and what game are you going back to?

 

DF is a sandbox MMO with an emphasis on PVP and conquest, and that's exactly what it delivers. IMO.

To answer your second question first, again, yes I researched it. That research told me not to buy the game... but I followed a guild to DF from another mmo, and some of them had been enjoying it. So despite my reservations, I gave it a go.

To answer your first question, here's what I wasn't expecting:

• To be forced to hit afk'ers on bloodwalls for a couple of months before I could walk out of town wearing armour I didn't want to lose. *yawn*
• An alignment system so badly screwed up, that players will be griefed more by members of their own "friendly" faction than by enemy ones.
• Rampant hacking/macro'ing/botting.
• Aventurine to not enforce their ToS - which they don't on nearly all counts. Because if they did, they'd be taking disciplinary action again the majority of their already tiny playerbase.

To answer your third question, I may go back to Ryzom. It has most of the sandbox elements that DF has - just minus the open PvP+full-loot and the city ownership.

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

I agree that what would compel many to continue would be non-instanced player housing;but then again, there isnt an mmo that offers it.

I know it's a bit of an embarassment in the mmo world, but Istaria has had non-instanced player housing for many years now.

Originally posted by JTBanker

Been lurking for a while and have a question that maybe one of the more reasonable people can answer.

Are Darth and Javac paid employees of AV that actually are Mods here on MMORPG which is why they don't get banned? There has to be someone in bed with someone else on MMORPG staff to get away with what those 2 do.

I have over the last 4 months seen people get banned for using words that Mods don't understand all the while Javac and Darth flame people constantly and troll their little hearts out and seem to get away with it?

So does anyone know the answer? Are they actually Mods that are also paid AV shills?

No i defend the game becuase i love it i am not paid by aventurine or have any position but i started playing some weeks after launch and i am a satisfied customer since.  No problems with account, the gameplay is exciting particullary i hadn't any more fun  in PvP in ANY mmorpg until now with DarkFall also i hadnt any more fun in any MMORPG until now with a GROUP of people.

Interesting fact is that you single few persons out (in fact 2)  including me that bothers you.

On the other hand you dont question opinions from people who NOT play but

state opinions as facts,  taking excessive negative perspectives without knowledge, bully people who admitelly like the game.

(take these thread for example  and how haters started to bully fans of the game by  recurring to personal attacks)

Interesting.

Originally posted by green13

• To be forced to hit afk'ers on bloodwalls for a couple of months before I could walk out of town wearing armour I didn't want to lose. *yawn*
• An alignment system so badly screwed up, that players will be griefed more by members of their own "friendly" faction than by enemy ones.
• Rampant hacking/macro'ing/botting.
• Aventurine to not enforce their ToS - which they don't on nearly all counts. Because if they did, they'd be taking disciplinary action again the majority of their already tiny playerbase.

So let break your points down one by one.

To be forced to hit afk'ers on bloodwalls for a couple of months before I could walk out of town wearing armour I didn't want to lose. *yawn*

You dont like loose items.  - its a full loot PvP game. You choose to attend bloodwals having YOU fear of loosing armor  force you. 

There have could been other options you didnt choose. One of which is  ..get used to loosing stuff in a full loot game the most important and foremost.  Then dont wear the most expensive armor running around use the armor fitting your skill.

Its YOU wanting to wear full plate with lets say  Lesser Magic 40 as highest skill (just an example) . AYou want to have it all handed to you. You want no risk while wearing the best armor and to minimize it the fast possible way you put yourself on Bloodwalls. 

An alignment system so badly screwed up, that players will be griefed more by members of their own "friendly" faction than by enemy ones.

These could have been an issue prior the alignment received a patch. I haven't been killed by a blue player since. Be honest and count me how often you got killed by blue friendly players ?

Rampant hacking/macro'ing/botting.

Often heard but really experienced ? be honest, on how many occasions you really had to report a hacker ?  You personally, not how many times you heard about hacking.

 Aventurine to not enforce their ToS - which they don't on nearly all counts. Because if they did, they'd be taking disciplinary action again the majority of their already tiny playerbase.

What makes you believe that ?  A general statement without any proof ?