Originally posted by ArcAngel3

I'm against RMT done poorly ^_^.  That's correct.  I have no trouble with having the option of purchasing non-performance enhancing items via RMT.  My favourite example would be the silver surfer-type travel graphics you can buy in City of Heroes.  You don't go any faster than anyone else, but man zipping around on a surf-board made of light looks cool lol.

The "norm" I think at this point is hard to define.  Many companies seem to be experimenting with different models of RMT.  Some seem to be trying to find out how much customers will tolerate.

I agree here, and a good example.  I don't want too much fluff though for RMT but implemented in a decent way with something that doesn't completely destroy the game economy or overpower characters and I'm all for it.

There is no time issue!  that is utterly impossible.

It is a myth. 

Players are:

• Different skill levels
• Start, and take breaks, at different times
• play for different lengths of time
• Cheat
• Hack
• buy gold from third party sources

You can not quantify a time issue with either subscriber based business models or RMT.

What if I start on Sunday but it took me 5 hours to do quest 1, 2 hours to do quest 2, 18 hours in PvP, then craft for 30 minutes, then back to questing? But someone else did quest 1 in 35 minutes, 1 1/2 hours to do quest 2, skipped 3, went to crafting for 18 hours, then PvP for 5, then fishing or stopped to chat for 10 minutes randomly either in-between activites or stopping to chat?

And there are billions and billions of combinations, that cannot be singled out, accounted for, or quanitfied.

Arguing a time issue, is rediculous, illogical, and will not help improve RMT business models.

Besides.  RMT is the fastest and most popular growing business in the video game industry, and is gaining popularity as the time goes by.  That shows that is is....what?  it shows that it is the most popular business model within the video game industry.

Simple FACT.

80% of all RMT/F2P mmorpgs I have played were CRAP

80% of all P2P non-RMT mmorpgs I have played were NOT CRAP

There is something obvious going on here, I wonder what it is?

Originally posted by giantsquid

There is no time issue!  that is utterly impossible.

It is a myth. 

Players are:

• Different skill levels
• Start, and take breaks, at different times
• play for different lengths of time
• Cheat
• Hack
• buy gold from third party sources

You can not quantify a time issue with either subscriber based business models or RMT.

What if I start on Sunday but it took me 5 hours to do quest 1, 2 hours to do quest 2, 18 hours in PvP, then craft for 30 minutes, then back to questing? But someone else did quest 1 in 35 minutes, 1 1/2 hours to do quest 2, skipped 3, went to crafting for 18 hours, then PvP for 5, then fishing or stopped to chat for 10 minutes randomly either in-between activites or stopping to chat?

And there are billions and billions of combinations, that cannot be singled out, accounted for, or quanitfied.

Arguing a time issue, is rediculous, illogical, and will not help improve RMT business models.

Besides.  RMT is the fastest and most popular growing business in the video game industry, and is gaining popularity as the time goes by.  That shows that is is....what?  it shows that it is the most popular business model within the video game industry.

You are correct. Pay to Play games are not measured in TIME, they are measured in CONTENT COMPLETED.

That's what you gave examples of. Crafting completed, quests completed, mob grinding completed.

It's about COMPLETING CONTENT, not time.

So saying someone has  an unfair advantage over you because they have more TIME to play in a P2P game is silly. It's not about TIME, it's about COMPLETING CONTENT> 

Kill the mobs, complete the quests, craft the items. I don't care if it takes you a day, a week, a month, a year. You will complete the content, same as EVERYONE else in a P2P game.

F2P is about money spent.

So, you can choose, money spent, or content completed. I'll take content over money, kthxbye.

Originally posted by Vortigon

Simple FACT.

80% of all RMT/F2P mmorpgs I have played were CRAP

80% of all P2P non-RMT mmorpgs I have played were NOT CRAP

There is something obvious going on here, I wonder what it is?

 

yes, it's obvious you like P2P overall more than F2P.  Uhmmm you needed to ask that? LOL.

Okay that was sarcastic, but seriously.  You have to realize some are going to feel quite opposite of how you feel, and like things you don't like at all, and anything inbetween.

That is not a basis for anything except to tell people what your own personal likes and dislikes are.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by giantsquid

There is no time issue!  that is utterly impossible.

It is a myth. 

Players are:

• Different skill levels
• Start, and take breaks, at different times
• play for different lengths of time
• Cheat
• Hack
• buy gold from third party sources

You can not quantify a time issue with either subscriber based business models or RMT.

What if I start on Sunday but it took me 5 hours to do quest 1, 2 hours to do quest 2, 18 hours in PvP, then craft for 30 minutes, then back to questing? But someone else did quest 1 in 35 minutes, 1 1/2 hours to do quest 2, skipped 3, went to crafting for 18 hours, then PvP for 5, then fishing or stopped to chat for 10 minutes randomly either in-between activites or stopping to chat?

And there are billions and billions of combinations, that cannot be singled out, accounted for, or quanitfied.

Arguing a time issue, is rediculous, illogical, and will not help improve RMT business models.

Besides.  RMT is the fastest and most popular growing business in the video game industry, and is gaining popularity as the time goes by.  That shows that is is....what?  it shows that it is the most popular business model within the video game industry.

 

You are correct. Pay to Play games are not measured in TIME, they are measured in CONTENT COMPLETED.

That's what you gave examples of. Crafting completed, quests completed, mob grinding completed.

It's about COMPLETING CONTENT, not time.

So saying someone has  an unfair advantage over you because they have more TIME to play in a P2P game is silly. It's not about TIME, it's about COMPLETING CONTENT> 

Kill the mobs, complete the quests, craft the items. I don't care if it takes you a day, a week, a month, a year. You will complete the content, same as EVERYONE else in a P2P game.

F2P is about money spent.

So, you can choose, money spent, or content completed. I'll take content over money, kthxbye.

No it's not.  It's about HAVING FUN! period.  whether you have fun picking your nose, chatting for 10 hours straight, or raiding, or crafting the same low lvl item a thousand times.

and developers of a F2P business model is no more/less moral or eithical than a person working at a business that takes your money from a subscriber business model.  They are both providing a service to you for which they are getting paid, just in different ways.

I've had 3 months of fun, lots of fun, and have only "completed" 2 instances, and "completed" level 48 of armorcrafting.

I'll take content over content, because regardless of you playing a P2P, and me playing a F2P, we are both spending money....oh wait...

I haven't spent one red cent since I started RoM 3 months ago, so I guess I have been getting content for free, while you've been playing:)

edit: sorry for the mean-ness.  I don't mean it, no hard feelings?  I actually enjoy reading what we all have to say, which everyone has that right.

Originally posted by giantsquid

Why are people upset about RMT.  It's the fastest growing video game business model in the world.  Ultimately that's because players like it, and that like is measured through numbers of players playing and paying in these games.

It's a business like subscriber based.

Why don't you people like McDonald's hamburgers? It's the largest food chain in the world. Ultimately that's because people like it.

Originally posted by qombi

Originally posted by giantsquid

Why are people upset about RMT.  It's the fastest growing video game business model in the world.  Ultimately that's because players like it, and that like is measured through numbers of players playing and paying in these games.

It's a business like subscriber based.

 

Why don't you people like McDonald's hamburgers? It's the largest food chain in the world. Ultimately that's because people like it.

Yes, u got it.  Exactly.

Of course I know what your thinking, but...

What you said, although very true, has nothing to say about anything.  It's a stand alone statisitc and as the world knows a statisitic can be used for both sides of the same debate or argument.

Yee 2005 shows that, by survey, 22% of the players buy gold. That is not the majority but pretty significant.

Me: Not to me. Thats barely 1/5 of the player base, assuming the poll is an accurate representation of the whole.

I guess it boils down to what is the percentage you can live with.

The actual percentage is largely irrelevant to me. I am more concerned with the impact it has on the game and the developers' efforts to stop it.

You can read up on the poll to see how accurate it is. It has almost 2000 data points, so a lot BETTER than any informal poll conducted here on this website.

I was giving that poll the benefit of the doubt. Even assuming it is accurate, my comments still apply.

I am not arguing for anything. I just want to know BRAIN DEAD's view. He seems to be so adamant against RMT but he is willing to live with a 22% of the players who engage in illegal cheating, as long as the developer is against it.

Well, I explained it yet again above for the fiftieth time. I hope it answers your questions. RMT will make an existing problem worse, not better. Thats why I oppose it.

I guess 1 in 5 is not high enough for him (or you?) to avoid the game.

It might be...it would depend on the game. See my comments above.

Why are people upset about RMT. It's the fastest growing video game business model in the world.

Not the Western World.

Ultimately that's because players like it, and that like is measured through numbers of players playing and paying in these games.

...which are a fraction of the players playing the US/European MMOs with little or no RMT.

I haven't spent one red cent since I started RoM 3 months ago, so I guess I have been getting content for free, while you've been playing

Maybe you simply have much lower standards when it comes to MMO entertainment?