Originally posted by Zzulu

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by tsunnu

Only childish thing I see is this pseudo 6th sense god mode. TTL Hardcore pvp has no place for that.

Wowtasm 3rd person 6th sense super awesome see around corners through walls wow mode.

 

Go back to wow.    I do think.

 

K.I.S.S.

 

 

 

Yeah, because WoW was the first MMORPG to have 3rd person view. Not like UO, pre trammel, and AC DT (the first good PvP FFA sandbox MMORPGS) had them. Right?

I think you are confusing FPS with MMORPGs and you seem to be confused generally because you think 1st person view, with aprox 70 degrees visibility, is realistic. Where as in RL you have a total view span of over 200 degrees. It is called peripheral view... If you didn't skip school to smoke all that weed then maybe you should have known that.

 

I think you are the one confused my friend. MMORPG means "massively multiplayer online role playing game". It is a very open genre and first person view fits it like any other view.

 

As for what is most realistic, well, that is pretty obvious to me. If you want to argue that peripheral vision equals third person view, then I don't even see the point in discussing it with you. You could argue that both viewpoints are unrealistic, but I'm not sure that you can argue that third person view is more realistic.

 

Anyway, I do not fully understand why you are so opposed to the first person view. There are many games out there that have used a FPV and used it very very well.

I have to wonder about you FPVers. Do you ever get away from the computer?

The closest thing in real life to FPV that I can think of is wearing a diving mask. Now go put one on and play any sport with it on. Go climb a ladder and walk on a roof. See how "realistic" that feels. If you don't fall and kill yourself...I guess that would be realistic.

Originally posted by Zzulu

Originally posted by Yamota

Yeah, because WoW was the first MMORPG to have 3rd person view. Not like UO, pre trammel, and AC DT (the first good PvP FFA sandbox MMORPGS) had them. Right?

I think you are confusing FPS with MMORPGs and you seem to be confused generally because you think 1st person view, with aprox 70 degrees visibility, is realistic. Where as in RL you have a total view span of over 200 degrees. It is called peripheral view... If you didn't skip school to smoke all that weed then maybe you should have known that.

 

I think you are the one confused my friend. MMORPG means "massively multiplayer online role playing game". It is a very open genre and first person view fits it like any other view.

 

As for what is most realistic, well, that is pretty obvious to me. If you want to argue that peripheral vision equals third person view, then I don't even see the point in discussing it with you. You could argue that both viewpoints are unrealistic, but I'm not sure that you can argue that third person view is more realistic.

 

Anyway, I do not fully understand why you are so opposed to the first person view. There are many games out there that have used a FPV and used it very very well.

Thank you for pointing out what MMORPG stands for, I could not possibly know that even though I have been a user on this site for years and played MMORPGs since 1999.

What I meant was that every single MMORPG since UO, worth mentioning, have had 3rd person view and UO had isometric view, so called 3/4 view. So MMORPGs as a rule has 3rd person view and some has 1st person view as an option. FPS on the other hand mostly have 1st person view and hence my comment.

Not sure if you are trying to argue that 1st person view is more realistic but if you are then you need better arguments than: I dont want to discuss it with you bla bla bla.

Third person view can have anywhere from 180 degrees view span to 360 degrees view span. That is alot closer to the aprox 250 degrees view span that most people have than the 70 or so degree view span that first person view gives you on an average size monitor.

And that is the main reason I am against forced first person view, not because it is only less realistic but also less practical. On a battle field with tens, maybe houndreds of people around you then having some kind of overview opens up alot more possibilities for tactical combat than forced 1st person view which only limits your possibilities. Also, as previously mentioned, MMORPGs are as rule of thumb 3rd person view with 1st person view as an option. So not having that will only alienate gamers that would otherwise be interested in a sandbox FFA PvP game because those type of MMORPGs are quite rare these days.

Also what I find ironic with all these people saying 1st person view is so "hardcore" bla bla bla is that the MMORPGs that were considered the most hardcore when it came to PvP were UO (isometric view) and AC Darktide (3rd person view). So those people are rather hardcore FPS fans and not MMORPG fans and/or just plain ignorant.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by sickan

Originally posted by Metal_M

 For all those that are dreaming, waiting or insisting that there must be 3rd person in MO.

 

 There will be none.

 

 Get ower it, lads.

 

Puh, thank god! It's fine by me cuz im over 14 years old and have better self esteem than that I have to see my überl33t armor from behind all the time! Weii!

 

Grow up and try something new. It is like sex, once you try, you love it. But of course, you dont know that if you are a 14 year old virgin. *whistle*

Wanna be a 40 year old virgin? Well, stay in carebear 3rd person! 

If these are the type of persons that will be playing this game then this game will be as doomed as DF. An MMORPG is only as good as its playerbase.

You're right Yamota, I'm well over 30 and I truly dislike FPS. I really don't care if they call me carebear if they get their rocks off and feel all bad for ganking pixels then let them but until you work in a state prison, are a cop or spend a year in Iraq they have no right to even pretend that they are harcore when to me they are nothing more than casualties of puberty. Let them have their game but it really really irks me when these so called hardcore people act like they are bad . I don't like ffapvp and they call me carebear. These are same people who would lose control of their bladder if put through half the stuff I have been through. So excuse me while I go start a carebear countdown.

 I hate to inform you guys but there are immature kids in every game.   I have played with them in Everquest, WoW, LOTRO, AoC, and yep even have immature people in EVE.    I am sure it will be no suprise that they will be in MO also.     Basically I usually just ignore them and eventually they go away to the next new game where people give them attention.  

I really am sorry so many of you dislike FPS games, but they are here to stay and have a huge following.   Just because most MMO's have a tpv option doesent mean its better or worse than having a strict fpv option.    This is a game being made by MMO gamers and this is what they wanted to see in a game.    Sure it takes away FOV (though that is still debatable IMO, you still have to turn your head to clearly see the entire 200 degree).    It also might take away looking at your toon seeing what he looks like all the time or seeing behind him.      The great thing about FPV though is ALSO that you can not see your behind. (You mean to tell me I can actually use my own skill to sneak?   I can pickpocket someone without artificial stealth mechanics?  Clearly as this has never been done by the other MMO's its a bad idea. )   You will feel more "connected" as your character, not just controlling some little man.    And last the world will feel bigger just because your not elevated 15 feet in the sky. 

It is a good debate and one that will go on and on because like the arguement of which point of view a game should use or should allow for everyone has their point of view as to what that should be and what they prefer. I think what upsets some people about Mortal Online is they like the idea and features that are going into this game but 3rd or 1st person view is something so personal to someones play style that it is a deal breaker for alot of people. Almost all 3rd person MMO's allow for 1st person with the mouse wheel. I know alot of people that play this way, in battle anyways. This game is designed for only 1st person and allows no such option the other way. It is their game and they feel that 1st person is a more immersive perspective. Though opinions obviously vary from gamer to gamer, this is the game they chose to make and the way they decided to make their game. They may lose potential subs because of that choice but I think they will gain some for that choice as well.

I just find it hard to understand certain people and how they go on dismissing games based on a viewpoint. I personally play both 3rd person games and 1st person games and I enjoy both styles immensely.

It is suprising to see a very vocal group of players who dislike first person view so strongly.

Hurray only 1st person view!

FINALLY.  I'm tired as f**k of third person perspectives in MMOs.  God forbid we should get some variety in the market.  I can't wait.  Multiplayer FPS combat is completely natural to me, so it will be good to get back to that same feel.  I'm definitely trying this game now. 

The first person perspective element is ont thing that is reallydrawing me towards MO. The first person rendering that drives the first person perspective can add a lot of immersion...and should cut down on the bunny hopping hehe.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by tsunnu

Only childish thing I see is this pseudo 6th sense god mode. TTL Hardcore pvp has no place for that.

Wowtasm 3rd person 6th sense super awesome see around corners through walls wow mode.

 

Go back to wow.    I do think.

 

K.I.S.S.

 

 

 

Yeah, because WoW was the first MMORPG to have 3rd person view. Not like UO, pre trammel, and AC DT (the first good PvP FFA sandbox MMORPGS) had them. Right?

I think you are confusing FPS with MMORPGs and you seem to be confused generally because you think 1st person view, with aprox 70 degrees visibility, is realistic. Where as in RL you have a total view span of over 200 degrees. It is called peripheral view... If you didn't skip school to smoke all that weed then maybe you should have known that.

Look.. my peripheral view floats above me..  I'm free of things like looking around using  WASD to move my character would be just too damn hard. Then again I got eye in the back of my head.. above my head yet another eye on my asscheeks and possibly in my nether crack yet more eyes.. winking. I see all.  awesome.

Another god mode arguement  /fail.. maybe it was all that acid you took.. since I took all the weed aparently. I wish I could walk in your world where my viewable area floated around me. Look at all them women oo aa..

Whatever the case.  SO * happy *  M.O. Is not implementing carebare pvp. 

TTL PVP RPG FTW  M<O< 1st person ownage hate the game cause you cant change it. 

K.I.S.S.

Thanks for trollin! beep beep

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by spankybus

Originally posted by Metal_M

 For all those that are dreaming, waiting or insisting that there must be 3rd person in MO.

 

 There will be none.

 

 Get ower it, lads.

lol They don't have to get over it, they just won't play it. That's money lost which means its incredibly stupid on the part of Star Vault. Personally,  I love 1st person, and am finally glad to have an mmorpg where i can play 1st person AND see my weapons, hands, etc. But i can't really understand why people can't have a choice. It's not like people asking for a PvE server on a PvP-centric game, its a client-side feature that is a cakewalk to turn on and yields no gameplay advantage in PvP.

 

Forcing 1st person only = money lost, reduction in overall player base may affect gameplay (empty worlds suck)

Giving a choice = money gained, no gameplay impact

 

It DOES have a certain gameplay impact. That was the whole reason to go for 1st person in the first place;

Realistic combat and no auto attacks require aiming which isn't an option in third person. Also stuff like stealth; you don't need 'invisibility' in the game if people can genuinly sneak up to people's backs without them noticing because they happen to have eyes in their backs.

In most third person games you see most people zooming out as far as they can in intense combat situations to benefit as much as possible from their 'god view'. 1st person gives more realism in that it is harder to assess a situation; you have to actively look around and the perspective itself makes combat much more intense since it happens right infront of you rather than 30 feet below. So all in all, allowing them both would have a gameplay impact. Quite a big one.

You are right though, they will not get certain customers who are too much accustomed to the industry standard of seeing their chars through god's eyes and in the middle of a waterfall of brightly coloured numbers. They will get quite some extra customers who applaud that MO is trying something new in the mmorpg department, however.

 

I am going to agree with the stealth part ,Darkpony but im going to disagree tottaly with the :Realistic combat and no auto attacks require aiming which isn't an option in third person. There is a reason that the best rpg manual combat system games use 3rd person . First of all its the view . When you are surrounded by 3 enemies for example it is necessary to have a zoommed out view so u can evaluate the situation , positions of your enemies,watch their movemnts e.t.c.  Not to mention that watching your 2 handed sword attack movement in 1st person sucks greately compared to 3rd person.

In oblivion when i was using the bow i was changing manually to 1st person but all times when figthing melle 3rd person is amust for survival and enjoying the combat reasons.thats fun.

I understand that with 1st person u resolve the sneak(invisibility issue) since if no 3rd person a good sneaker can move to your back and since u dont have 3 rd person view he can sneak up on you to backstub without using the invisibility thingie others use in other games but... Is this enough to remove 3rd person even as an option?? For me and the majority of players NOT.

It is a matter of taste i have 2  rl friends that prefer 1st person but the rest 7 prefer 3rd person .I just said that as a minor statistical gallop.Point is if supposely game launch and it has 40 k subs ,the game cant survive for financial reasons and since from what it seems it has a great combat system wouldnt it best for the game's survival to have 140 k subs instead of 40 k?

Understand this: The more subs /sales a game has the more money the devs of thsi game have. And the more money they have  , they can invest further more time and money to improve the game itself! What i am saying is try to forget your personal ego's ppl and try think whats best for a game that u really care to succeed.

I watched videos of game footage and i must say it looks great . In fact greater than loads of others Comerciallised mmorpgs from other big companies including bliz's wow. MO seems to have BETTER combat system , BETTER grafix, BETTER animations from world's N1 mmorpg right now(wow). Help this dev team really improve this game not just to suit your personal needs, but for its survival and success globally. And if it launches and succed with many mnay subs u can at least expect its further improving over time.

Originally posted by Sarcazmo

FINALLY.  I'm tired as f**k of third person perspectives in MMOs.  God forbid we should get some variety in the market.  I can't wait.  Multiplayer FPS combat is completely natural to me, so it will be good to get back to that same feel.  I'm definitely trying this game now. 

Me too.. I hate feeling like I'm playing a strategy game. I want to feel inmersed in the virtual world. Of course lately MMOs are not much of a world.

Originally posted by tsunnu

Originally posted by Yamota

Yeah, because WoW was the first MMORPG to have 3rd person view. Not like UO, pre trammel, and AC DT (the first good PvP FFA sandbox MMORPGS) had them. Right?

I think you are confusing FPS with MMORPGs and you seem to be confused generally because you think 1st person view, with aprox 70 degrees visibility, is realistic. Where as in RL you have a total view span of over 200 degrees. It is called peripheral view... If you didn't skip school to smoke all that weed then maybe you should have known that.

Look.. my peripheral view floats above me..  I'm free of things like looking around using  WASD to move my character would be just too damn hard. Then again I got eye in the back of my head.. above my head yet another eye on my asscheeks and possibly in my nether crack yet more eyes.. winking. I see all.  awesome.

Another god mode arguement  /fail.. maybe it was all that acid you took.. since I took all the weed aparently. I wish I could walk in your world where my viewable area floated around me. Look at all them women oo aa..

Whatever the case.  SO * happy *  M.O. Is not implementing carebare pvp. 

TTL PVP RPG FTW  M<O< 1st person ownage hate the game cause you cant change it. 

K.I.S.S.

Thanks for trollin! beep beep

Interesting how you called Yamota a troll when you did not even read his response to you and then went on with your same "FPV is hardcore" ranting.  You even managed to throw in that the person you were quoting uses drugs.  Nice.

Maybe it needs to be put in color for you to be able to comprehend the message?  The only real successful PvP MMO games that have ever been released have had a "god view" option.  UO, AC, DAoC, Shadowbane, and EvE all are played from a non 1st person view. Hell even Darkfall, while being a horrible game, is 100% focused on PvP and the melee combat is a tight third person view.

Do you realize now how dumb you sound when you keep saying that 3rd person view is "carebear" or that 1st person view is apparently "ownage"... wait.... Judging by your grammar, probably not, huh?

Edit:  I would just like to add I don't want  MO to change.  The developers are making the game how they want and that's great and I can't wait to try MO out.  I just had to reply to tsunna's idiotic rants.

  The only real successful PvP MMO games that have ever been released have had a "god view" option.  UO, AC, DAoC, Shadowbane, and EvE all are played from a non 1st person view. Hell even Darkfall, while being a horrible game, is 100% focused on PvP and the melee combat is a tight third person view.

Please name the currently released dedicated FPV MMO's for me.      If there are even one or two?!   I certainly have never heard of a melee-centric FPV only game.    So why are you comparing that which exists to that which does not?  It will be an interesting trial and I hope it they succeed.  

100% dedicated FPS view and the technical graphics of this game are really the only thing that intrest me.

turns out its just not enough for me personally.

3rd view is the worst thing ever invinted
 

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

100% dedicated FPS view and the technical graphics of this game are really the only thing that intrest me.

turns out its just not enough for me personally.

3rd view is the worst thing ever invinted
 

no this is.....

Originally posted by jaspr180

  The only real successful PvP MMO games that have ever been released have had a "god view" option.  UO, AC, DAoC, Shadowbane, and EvE all are played from a non 1st person view. Hell even Darkfall, while being a horrible game, is 100% focused on PvP and the melee combat is a tight third person view.

Please name the currently released dedicated FPV MMO's for me.      If there are even one or two?!   I certainly have never heard of a melee-centric FPV only game.    So why are you comparing that which exists to that which does not?  It will be an interesting trial and I hope it they succeed.  

I think you completely missed the point of my post.

Originally posted by Dameonk

Originally posted by jaspr180

  The only real successful PvP MMO games that have ever been released have had a "god view" option.  UO, AC, DAoC, Shadowbane, and EvE all are played from a non 1st person view. Hell even Darkfall, while being a horrible game, is 100% focused on PvP and the melee combat is a tight third person view.

Please name the currently released dedicated FPV MMO's for me.      If there are even one or two?!   I certainly have never heard of a melee-centric FPV only game.    So why are you comparing that which exists to that which does not?  It will be an interesting trial and I hope it they succeed.  

I think you completely missed the point of my post.

Did I?   If you would have said  "The only real PvP MMO games that have ever been released have had a "god view" option.", then I wouldnt have said anything about it, but you had to put successful which refers to actual competition.   I could say the Earth destroys all the other planets out there because we do things the best.   Well that would mean absolutely nothing, just like your argument.

I remember playing EQ1 with its first default UI. It was mainly first person view, I never had any problems with it. MO with its FPV will bring back some good old memories. Considering its a PvP based game, going FPV is the best way to go. Money lost? So be it, if it means less people whining and complaining, then I'm all for it.

Originally posted by Dameonk

I The only real successful PvP MMO games that have ever been released have had a "god view" option.  UO, AC, DAoC, Shadowbane, and EvE all are played from a non 1st person view. Hell even Darkfall, while being a horrible game, is 100% focused on PvP and the melee combat is a tight third person view.

Everyone knows the best reason to do something is because everyone else has always done it.

That's not what he's saying.

He is saying that it is ignorant to call 3rd person view "lame" and "only suited for carebears", when all the most PvP centric MMO's have had the viewpoint. And he's right.

 On another tangent; when are you youngins' going to learn that vomiting vitriol and catchy words like "carebear" around is dumb? Calling an entire gaming perspective "carebearish" is just such a dumb thing to say. I mean I'm all for FPV and I love that MO is going that route, but I do not go around condemning everything else and calling people idiots for their differing opinions.

Think before you post.

Except that none of the games he listed had direct combat control;; with the exception of Planetside, and Darkfall, what MMO's have gone that route?

(Those two are both FPV, by the way)

Originally posted by JackDanger

Except that none of the games he listed had direct combat control;; with the exception of Planetside, and Darkfall, what MMO's have gone that route?

(Those two are both FPV, by the way)

You do realize that planteside could  be played in TPV, and DF had TPV for melee combat.

Originally posted by tsunnu

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by tsunnu

Only childish thing I see is this pseudo 6th sense god mode. TTL Hardcore pvp has no place for that.

Wowtasm 3rd person 6th sense super awesome see around corners through walls wow mode.

 

Go back to wow.    I do think.

 

K.I.S.S.

 

 

 

Look.. my peripheral view floats above me..  I'm free of things like looking around using  WASD to move my character would be just too damn hard. Then again I got eye in the back of my head.. above my head yet another eye on my asscheeks and possibly in my nether crack yet more eyes.. winking. I see all.  awesome.

Another god mode arguement  /fail.. maybe it was all that acid you took.. since I took all the weed aparently. I wish I could walk in your world where my viewable area floated around me. Look at all them women oo aa..

Whatever the case.  SO * happy *  M.O. Is not implementing carebare pvp. 

TTL PVP RPG FTW  M<O< 1st person ownage hate the game cause you cant change it. 

K.I.S.S.

Thanks for trollin! beep beep

 

One thing I got from this thread is that if FPV doesn't drive you away, the community sure will. One to avoid.

You're right, every MMO ever doesn't have at least 73,000 idiots just like the one you quoted.