I am going to sound carebear here but I don’t want a two class MMO. I don’t want those with money having a better, elitist gaming experience.

All MMO’s should work on the level playing field criteria.

Originally posted by Scot

I am going to sound carebear here but I don’t want a two class MMO. I don’t want those with money having a better, elitist gaming experience.

All MMO’s should work on the level playing field criteria.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

 

But you can still play for free.

And companies (in this case Blizzard) makes exactly same money as with SUB.

No, because people who reach max level would be playing for free after that.  Imagine if all max level players in WoW no longer had to pay.

The companies would be making much less.

Power levelers would hate this. I woulnt really like having to login to my game account every time I wanted to level myself.

I want to give credit to the OP for actually trying to share new ideas on the money model for MMOGs.

I for one would like to see something like this...
- a first payment that is like access to the game or servers
- game is developed with the concept of certain level to level with payment to access next section of content
- still have a pay for time period limit most likely longer than the per month model and also cheaper

What do you think, any good?

Why is everyone trying to change the payment plan already in place? If anything lets just start touting a standard $10.00 monthly fee for games after 1 or 2 years of service. Specially games like WoW that after all this time are showing they don't deserve the amount of money they get monthly compared to other companies and their content patches.

That being said, this P2L is very NON alt friendly. I like playing alts, many of them. You also will be shelling out alot of money at the early levels, as it is faster to hit levels there then at the cap. I say screw the micro payment BS floating around the web these days.

Originally posted by Thradar

 No.

Paying for ANYTHING other than access to a server to send data packets ceases to be a game.  I've been a gamer for 30 years.  Seeing what some of these companies are trying to sell as gameplay models makes me want to wretch.

Gaming is about challenging yourself, or being challenged by other players...online or face to face.

MMO gaming should be like plaing a monthly fee to a fitness club that give you access to competition so you can go in and play basketball, racquetball (etc) with people.  If a fitness club was run like a lot of mmos out there you'd have to pay for the extra uber racquet or shoes.  Oh, you want the bball hoop 1 foot lower?  $5.  You want someone to play your opponent for you?  $5.

F'ing stupid gaming model.  And everyone who buys in to this model are not gamers/competitors...they are posers and should stick to Guitar Hero or something.  LOL.

My 2 cents.

This.

Originally posted by Scot

I am going to sound carebear here but I don’t want a two class MMO. I don’t want those with money having a better, elitist gaming experience.

All MMO’s should work on the level playing field criteria.

Agreed, Sounds like life doesn't it ? the rich keep getting richer. 

Originally posted by Scot

I am going to sound carebear here but I don’t want a two class MMO. I don’t want those with money having a better, elitist gaming experience.

All MMO’s should work on the level playing field criteria.

I am going to sound carebear here, but I don't want a two class MMO.  I don't want those with crap loads of continuous time on their hands having a better, elitist gaming experience.

All MMO's should work on the lavel playing field criteria.

It's a terrible idea and model mainly because you have to stick to a level system how would you do it if it was skill based? You can't. What about alts? You want to pay for them too? Is $10-15 per month really that much? Christ you spend that, if not more at a movie theater in a night.

Oh shit I got level 20 let me charge it to my card! How dumb is that. Hang on guys I gotta charge it before I ding!

Not many will like this model it gives not freedom. You going to charge people to craft items to? How about an in-game tax on item selling, awesome!

Originally posted by Horusra

Originally posted by Scot

I am going to sound carebear here but I don’t want a two class MMO. I don’t want those with money having a better, elitist gaming experience.

All MMO’s should work on the level playing field criteria.

 

I am going to sound carebear here, but I don't want a two class MMO.  I don't want those with crap loads of continuous time on their hands having a better, elitist gaming experience.

All MMO's should work on the lavel playing field criteria.

and heres where we argue that people without the "adequate" time to play the games should not play them. And then the counter argument that goes with those without the money should not need to worry about playing past a certain point etc...

THIS is why MMO's should be about the journey and not the ending. There should be more than one main factor that determines an "elitist" gaming experience. Money and time invested should not be two of them either.

Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by Thradar

 No.

Paying for ANYTHING other than access to a server to send data packets ceases to be a game.  I've been a gamer for 30 years.  Seeing what some of these companies are trying to sell as gameplay models makes me want to wretch.

Gaming is about challenging yourself, or being challenged by other players...online or face to face.

MMO gaming should be like plaing a monthly fee to a fitness club that give you access to competition so you can go in and play basketball, racquetball (etc) with people.  If a fitness club was run like a lot of mmos out there you'd have to pay for the extra uber racquet or shoes.  Oh, you want the bball hoop 1 foot lower?  $5.  You want someone to play your opponent for you?  $5.

F'ing stupid gaming model.  And everyone who buys in to this model are not gamers/competitors...they are posers and should stick to Guitar Hero or something.  LOL.

My 2 cents.

 

This.

We should just sticky that and put an end to all micro transaction discussions.

Its funny

In all this topic. With all negativity.

There was not ONE valid argument WHY P2L is worse than P2P

Cmmon guys. You are defending P2P. You can do better. At least you can pose an argument ?

Let say pose an argument where you show that P2L is more expensive than P2P ?

Ok..can you do at least that ?

Well

Here is the answer to some other (half baked) arguments

1. P2L would be expensive if you level multiple characters.

NO

You take time to level characters ? Right

Leveling 1 takes you 10 days. Costs 5$. Leveling 2 takes 20 days costs 10$

2. Low levels would be expensive

Why?

Lvl 2 = 1. cent

Lvl 3= 2. cent

...

Lvl 50 = 5$

3. I will be billed to my CC

Hmm..

Are you not billed now with subscription ?

4. It would be Gold farmers heaven cause they could grind gold for free.

Only valid argument.

Still industry that makes over 200 million a year. Dont think subscription or free bothers them much

5. Hardcore grinders would suffer from this

They would have option to pay normal subscription

So you see.

Everyone wins here!

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Its funny

In all this topic. With all negativity.

There was not ONE valid argument WHY P2L is worse than P2P

 

 

There was a bunch of them you just didn't read them.

The biggest issue is people stop paying when they hit max level. Less money for the developer.

People will get punished for creating alts rather than just sticking with their max level character.

Originally posted by GreenChaos

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Its funny

In all this topic. With all negativity.

There was not ONE valid argument WHY P2L is worse than P2P

 

 

 

There was a bunch of them you just didn't read them.

The biggest issue is people stop paying when they hit max level. Less money for the developer.

People will get punished for creating alts rather than just sticking with their max level character.

 

Aha! Good point - hitting max level

This will in term force developers to create more content. And expand classes.

And not keep player base artificially frozen at "end game"

Repeating over and over and over same 2 raids, until their eyes pop out.

This way companies will in fact need to produce new content if they want to earn money

As for alts

Again. What is not understood ?

Grinding xp = time

Leveling 1 char from 50->60 = 1 month

Leveling 2 chars from 40->50 = 1 month

leveling from 50->60 = 15$

leveling from 40->50 = 7.5$

1 month sub = 15$

Dont you get the math ?

I was first negative until I saw your point. You mean, instead of a monthly fee, you pay when you level up. So if you are trying out new games for let say a month you do not pay because you're simply not leveling. Well, could work, unless you have to go in and manually do the payment each time you level. That would just be boring.

Originally posted by lindhsky

I was first negative until I saw your point. You mean, instead of a monthly fee, you pay when you level up. So if you are trying out new games for let say a month you do not pay because you're simply not leveling. Well, could work, unless you have to go in and manually do the payment each time you level. That would just be boring.

 

it obviously would auto-charge to your credit card, or you would be able to buy lvl package, but the thing is each lvl would cost the same ?

Originally posted by Lobotomist

I just had a great idea how to marry F2P game and P2P game, in a way that everyone wins !

Let say for example that WOW goes this new F2P model.

 

Here is what happens:

- The game is completely free to play and download.

- There is no item shop of any kind (except perhaps cosmetic)

 

What is the catch ?

 

When your character gains enough EXP to level. You need to pay $$$ to train and lvl up.

Lover levels cost less , higher cost more - propotionate to how much time would be invested in leveling them.

 

p.s (to explain better) = You dont automatically level. You still need to grind for XP. You only pay to train.

 

...

So why is this good ?

 

In P2P games you pay to play the game. Basically you pay for TIME.

Let say it takes two days to level from lvl 15 to lvl 16.

 

In P2L (pay to level) you also take 2 day to level from 15 to 16. But you pay only when you are DONE. And that also only if you wish.

 

So in P2P you are actually paying infront. And also for something you might not use at all

In P2L you pay after (and if) you actually used your time in game.

 

 

Benefits of this model.

1. Its F2P/P2P model fusion

2. You pay only if you play. And what you play. Not a cent more

3. You can still log in - interact with guild. Help friends. Do quests. Even if you decide to stay at certain level.

 

 

So..there is P2L system in a nutshell..

What do you think ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would play that game, if there was no item shops. That includes the ornamental items as well. I don't mind paying for content (access to more content). I do mind virtual item shops where you buy digital items with real life cash. 

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

um, if they're gonna give me free xp  when i pay them , thats fine

i would never play a game where i have to invest time in my character and pay them to level it up after i max'd xp

 

if they wanna auto me a max level for a certain amount of money, i'm game

So you really don't want to play the game, I am curious why would you want the game? Another way to think of what the original poster is proposing is the levels are locked until you buy access to more. It is a fine business model. So much better than item shops which is where you buy items without PLAYING for them. Goes against everything games are. Unlocking content, I am good to go with that.

I don't see how you think it would be good design to not even have to play a game you are buying to play? You have boggled my mind.

Your math is fine, but it's a bad business model.

For one, they could never make projected income, especially for each quater...too many vairiables on who will decide to pay or stay at max level and not pay.

For the players it can be tricky too, the casual players could save money if they take their time to reach max level. Additionally, the raiders would save money too later on at max level. Those who like making alts and seeing what each class has to offer, it'll hurt in the wallet.(Good for the companies though).

How many of those (alt makers) can sustain an mmo that NEEDS to provide endgame to satisfy those who rush to max level and want to be kept interested but not paying a dime? I see it as a model with too many unknowns to make viable, unless there's a way for secured income monthly to keep everyone happy.

Originally posted by Haiken

Originally posted by lindhsky

I was first negative until I saw your point. You mean, instead of a monthly fee, you pay when you level up. So if you are trying out new games for let say a month you do not pay because you're simply not leveling. Well, could work, unless you have to go in and manually do the payment each time you level. That would just be boring.

 

it obviously would auto-charge to your credit card, or you would be able to buy lvl package, but the thing is each lvl would cost the same ?

Definetly not.

Training levels would reflect time needed to reach xp.

So if leveling from lvl 10->11 takes only a day it would cost 50 cents

and leveling from 59->60 takes a month it will cost 15$

Mind that you will not buy levels. You still need to play and gain xp to level.

You only pay to train/progress once you have enough xp.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Your math is fine, but it's a bad business model.

For one, they could never make projected income, especially for each quater...too many vairiables on who will decide to pay or stay at max level and not pay.

For the players it can be tricky too, the casual players could save money if they take their time to reach max level. Additionally, the raiders would save money too later on at max level. Those who like making alts and seeing what each class has to offer, it'll hurt in the wallet.(Good for the companies though).

How many of those (alt makers) can sustain an mmo that NEEDS to provide endgame to satisfy those who rush to max level and want to be kept interested but not paying a dime? I see it as a model with too many unknowns to make viable, unless there's a way for secured income monthly to keep everyone happy.

Good points

1. Leveling alts is cheap. Because lover levels cost less. So basically you pay same for leveling many low levels. Or one high

2. There will be less people that rush to max level. And people would actually take their time to enjoy the content

3. Artificial game freeze like "endgame" raids will become things of the past. Since companies will have to push new content in order to get money.

So no more doing Onyxia for 3 years. You actually get new content for your money

Wow, so many people here not intelligent enough to understand the idea.

This model is better and more fair than p2p but only in old fashioned mmos like infamous wow. These days however, mmos are not towards level grinding, but rather having fun from start. So in case of modern mmos this idea fails because it does not give enough money to the devs as levelling becomes less important (which is good)

Originally posted by Lobotomist

 

Good points

1. Leveling alts is cheap. Because lover levels cost less. So basically you pay same for leveling many low levels. Or one high

2. There will be less people that rush to max level. And people would actually take their time to enjoy the content

3. Artificial game freeze like "endgame" raids will become things of the past. Since companies will have to push new content in order to get money.

So no more doing Onyxia for 3 years. You actually get new content for your money

I agree with point 1. Point 2 is arguable. Yes there will be less of those that rush to lvl, only because it will not cater to them, not because it will change their play style. Those that rush to max lvl in every game will still do so, and pay whatever the cost is, to show off their prowess...but then what? They'll most likely leave. I agree, it is a better system for the player.

As for the point 3, I've never been a raider, and from what I understand it's roughly 5-8% of the whole population (WoW stats I believe), so it wouldn't be a great loss not catering to them.

As long as the game is solid, mechanics wise and gameplay, it could be viable for the players but not a big money maker.

I forgot to even answer the initial question..  In your system, that would be a game I would play considering how I play mmo's.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Its funny

In all this topic. With all negativity.

There was not ONE valid argument WHY P2L is worse than P2P

 

Cmmon guys. You are defending P2P. You can do better. At least you can pose an argument ?

 

Read the post that Thrader made and I quoted.   Lots of good stuff there.

RL money should NEVER give an advantage.

Why?   It's a game!   The playing field cannot be skewed by real life money in a game.   Imagine a game of chess where one side was allowed to start three queens and four rooks.

It's a horrible concept, because it's utterly contrary to the nature of a game.    The only truly acceptable "imbalance" is one of skill.