Originally posted by Lobotomist

Scenarios ruined the game.

Take out the scenarios, and you will have functioning game.

And make PVE quests in contested areas

Remember when they shutdown beta for a few months because too many people were playing scenarios instead of the world?  Good thing they fixed that problem...Oh wait.....

I learned to check for false advertising before buying a product

Originally posted by Amafi

What do we want?

Warhammer is a beautiful game with many original features..but by general consensus it is still lacking something..or else the population would not be decreasing.

I have not played the game for 2 months and although I had some great times, I did not feel that 'addictive' quality that I have felt in other games.

Is it the community that is lacking?

Is it the lack of end game content?

Is it poorly balanced?

Is it too easy?

I am only bothering to post this because I have seen what they can do. The best gaming moments of my life have been courtesy of Mythic, but I feel they could have done better with WAR.

I think they tried too hard  to cater for everyone, but if I put it like the kid in the fairy tale..The Emporer isn't wearing any clothes.

It's just not that great.

So what DO we want? Maybe if we told the powers that be, they wouldn't think we wanted fucken WOW clones..

 

It's poorly balanced + lack of end game content and it's poorly thought out and executed + the server engine or server version is very poor for RVR/PVP ESP mass RVR/PVP

and this=a lacking community

Originally posted by ninjajucer

Whats really funny is with LotD out now, there are no zone flips. Nobody is taking the time to try and flip a zone, it seems its much easier to just do the blue quests and kill people as you see them. I'm strongly debating uninstalling it as I'm already unsubbed as of the 22nd.

Until the gameplay changes dramatically (other capital cities, races, classes....something), I see no reason to resub. The game has become a level/renown grind with the same button mashing as you face the same enemies time and again. The same strategies always work, people take the game WAY too seriously, and after going to 40 twice and exploring every facet of all the lands, I see little reason to keep going.

The new changes are excessive, its like they have made the game so that once you hit t3, they hold your hand to ease you into t4 as quickly as possible (gunbad changes, epic quest line, LotD access).

Even the gold spammers are realizing there is little market in the game. Its really sad when you can't even get gold spammers to play your game.

We are getting LotD today on EU servers, so can't really tell how's it going to be. Just 20 minutes ago before I left for work, we managed to stop destro from capping KV (they had 95%VP and last domination point was 20 seconds away :D). The other peeps had been up all night.

I hope this doesn't change, although I realize that first month or so will be quite a bit LotD not only because Tyrant-set can be dropped from there.

To that goldspammer thing, you know they are pretty harsh on goldsellers? I don't know about others, but my mailbox has 2-3 new goldseller mails every day and I report everyone of them. Never get mail from that name again, so they are most definately doing something about that -> BANHAMMER! And why should anyone buy gold in WAR, because it's so easy to come by :P

I feel for those playing on servers that don't have strong community in means of big guilds and conquest leaders. We have them on Eltharion and that's why the game in my eyes has pretty strong ground.

What we've learned from WAR is that games should decide who their target audiences are before launch.  WAR is a pretty good game, but it's also a pretty average game.

WoW players would most likely give WAR a try sometime in their lifetime.  But the problem is WAR doesn't have the PvE complexity of WoW, doesn't have cross-server BG's, animation & action aren't as smooth, and for the longest time itemization and how you obtain RvR gear was whacked in WAR.  So WoW players end up moving back to WoW, because it suits them better, and does everything they like better.

On the other hand, Mythic tried to cater to their loyal playerbase from DAOC by doing the whole open RvR deal.  But they didn't do it well enough, the RvR in DAOC is waaay >>>> than WAR's RvR.  The ML's, RA's, relic raids, climbable siege ladders, place siege engine anywhere design, DF, etc.. all added to why players loved DAOC.  WAR just simply didn't do enough to cater to the DAOC folks, so they again, lost the players whom they should've easily kept.

So what you end up having is a game that should be good, but just isn't satisfying to the audience Mythic tried to pull.  They stretched themselves too thin to try to shoot for a wider audience, but end up losing both.  WAR will do alright, it'll still be a top 5 US MMO for years to come.  But it is not going to be the hype that it once was, and it's hard to say if it'll even able to snag that #2 spot in the US.

What I've learned from Warhammer is that it's a steaming pile of shit of a game and it should be flushed down the shitter along with it's maker Mythic. I will never buy another Mythic game ever. It's sad they can make a gem like DAOC and then come out with this pile of shit.

I said the samething during beta.

It makes me sad to Mythic let EA bully them so much.  Just look at teh Dwarf/Greenskin areas if all three pairings were like that the game would of kept me and my guild 100+ members playing to this day.  For the ones that don't know what im talking about the two factions quest and objectives are mixed together is dwarf vs greenskins but not everywhere else.  Shows how much EA screwed up this game.

As a game designer myself rule number know your target audience and build the game for them not everyone else. 

WoW fan boys try it take a break from WoW but you will go back.

DAoC fan boys .... say your time and money not worth ... go back to dreaming (like i do)

EQ fan boys ..... your hopeless just stay don't ever leave

Linage fan boys .... im sorry i have nothing to say to you .. lol

My point is no matter what game you really enjoy this is not worth your time and money.

Originally posted by Warsong

It's poorly balanced + lack of end game content and it's poorly thought out and executed + the server engine or server version is very poor for RVR/PVP ESP mass RVR/PVP

and this=a lacking community

Touched on my main issues, poor balance, very poor performance even on high end machines, and worst end game for a PvP based game I have ever seen (instanced pqs...)

The community was there in force in the beginning and beta, but slowly through worse performance and bugs has been dropping off.

Warhammer had its problems: class imbalances; poor gear itemization and a horrible crafting system just to name a few.  But the biggest problem with the game was the stupidity of its players.  You can't flip a zone if you're not willing to defend a keep and the Battlefield Objectives (BO's).  You can't defend the Keep and the BO's if you're running off from your warband just to join a scenario.

Most people didn't understand the role of the toon that they rolled.  Let me rephrase that: Most people didn't even make the effort to learn the role of the toon that they rolled. The "WoW-Me-First-I'm-a-Hero" mentality doesn't bode well in games that are centered around team work.  

• Warrior Priests, Engineers and Shadow Warriors probably should not be manning the ram while oil is being poured on them. 
• While in an instance with a 6 man group, focus fire on the tank's target.  Don't have the Warrior Priest pull and attempt to tank another mob by himself. 
• If you're defending a Keep, then stay inside and defend it.  Pushing the attackers away from the Keep and fighting them away from the Keep's Zone will give you less renown.

"Well, don't pug!" you say,  "Get into groups with just your guild!"  The people that make up a guild are the same group of idiots that play the game.  Once in a guild their only concern is when do they make officer and can the entire guild drop whatever it is doing and help the individual in this awesome Chapter 1 Public Quest?  Oh! By the way, the guild taxes are set too high.  "Duh goldz I getz iz mine!  I wantz lotz and lotz of goldz.  Hai Gaiz!  Who in duh guild wantz this Annihilator Gearz.  I sellz it to use realz cheapz.  500g!"

Of course, my all time favorite are the people that have 6+ alts in the guild, none that are higher than level 5.  I had alts.  I made the effort to keep the alts within a few levels of my main toon.  Most people didnt do that and it made leveling the guild that much more difficult.

When they stop crying about not getting the entire guild's help on a Chapter 1 PQ or they're not trying to sell items to fellow guild members, then they usually quit.  Their excuse for quitting is that the guild can't capture and maintain a Keep or the guild is just too low level for them.  Granted, they did nothing to advance the guild but that's beside the point.

I'm not saying Warhammer was the perfect game.  It does have its problems.  But the biggest drawback of the game is one that no publisher and no game design company can fix: player stupidity.  In short, to answer the OP's question: "So what have we learned from Warhammer?"  The "WoW-Me-First-I'm-a-Hero" mentality does not work well in games that require team work.  The general public just seems to be too stupid and selfish to want to work together.

Originally posted by badgerer

Originally posted by Zoulz

I learned not to get so hyped over a new MMO. You just end up back in wow anyway, so why bother.

 

The mmo damned. Cursed to walk the virtual earth in their eternal quest for fulfullment that would never come. New content is sucked dry and scattered across the barren landscape, the withered husks of hopeful developers testement to the appetite that would never be slaked.

Hehe...that sounds like it might make a good MMO. For a couple months at least... 
 

To paraphrase what Hickman said, too many games concentrate on making a world and not a game...

Yes, But those games in the end are superior products because although I love to bash skulls, bashing skulls alone for no real reason slowly drags down to monotony.

What I learned from WAR was, make combat good.. if your game is as the hickman and barnett said about WAR only war fighting killing maiming etc etc. make the combat good, the amount of dodgy animations lack of fluid movement and static battles were one thing, another was the balance (or see who can bring more bright wizards / sorcerers(ess').

Also, if you make an mmo on an established well known IP make it atleast something like that IP, just having models that have reckonizable names from the warhammer world doesn't make them part of the warhammer world, stop making generic uninspired classes with these models and the game would be much better.

Where is the war? Was a question I asked myself quite a bit whilst playing, this is especially true for the pve content (fair enough war was an RvR game but surely with things like PQs surely they had abit of PvE) where was the epic battles between your forces and their's (yes it happened between players (when enough we on)) I don't think anywhere outside the tutorial areas I ever saw soldiers of either side actually fighting each other.

There's much more, but really it's already been said, warhammer should have been a world where war was happening with emphasis on control and an overarching campaign, but instead what we got was a souless lifeless segregated mess in which nothing mattered (apart from running from a keep to the next to get massive renown... (that forced me to leave I wanted to fight..)) to top all that off the combat (which the game was supposedly built around) was clunky and generally poorly implemented.

I've learned that player interactivity with combat and competition against players in a hopeful player-influenced world was the biggest draw, but the execution whereby combat rewards were weak and content lacked, such as engaging in the same repetitive scenarios time after time after time after time became boring fast.

what gamming COMPANIES should have learned is, do not OVER hype your games. no matter how good the game is, it could never live up to the hype spewed by that turd they had on their webcasts. people will enter the game expecting way more than any game could ever offer. War was kinda fun, and i really liked the classes it just wasn't fun for very long. scenarios i think ruined the game, if they had stuck to open rvr like in doac it would have done alot better.

What Mythic should have learnt from this is that do not get an IP then throw all of that IP out of the window.

Warhammer fantasy roleplay pen and paper game is not about levels but character development of basic character classes which evole into advanced character classes.

Yet mythic threw this away and put in their own system where the tiers were perfect for basic and advanced classes, T1 and T2 could have been for basic classes and T3 and T4 for advaced classes. Also the more powerful classes would have to spend more time in T1 and T2 due to greater minimum stat requirements.

But what they did was to jam D&D style levels over a stat based character system, it could only end in tears.

Coupled with poor client stability and letting GOA ruin the EU side of things and it was a recipie for disaster.

I learned that overt, covert, and sleeper WOW trolls should not be underestimated.

Say what you want about a lack luster end-game, being a bad WoW-clone, server stability, and repetitive RvR, etc etc

The game failed because the feel of combat was absolute ass.

WoW had each of the above problems during its first few months.  But overcame them because PLAYING the game was fun.

WAR was never fun to play, from level 1.  It's combat was unresponsive, and frustrating to suffer through.  That "something I can't put my finger on" everyone keeps referring to, is the lack of fun actually moving around and PLAYING the game.  MMOs = mashing buttons for a good portion of the time.  If mashing the buttons = slow unresponsive frustrating combat, then your game will fail.

I probably subbed an extra month in WoW simply because i found mind numbing fun in simply running around mashing buttons aimlessly, not because i particularly cared about what lewtz i might get, or what PvP epeen I might stroke.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Scenarios ruined the game.

Take out the scenarios, and you will have functioning game.

And make PVE quests in contested areas

I don't think Scenarios ruined WAR.   Scenarios are fun and they are the most functional PvP mechanic in the game.  WAR can't handle the player numbers when they gather in T4 Keeps and the Supply Line mechanic teleports them away.      With oRVR as the only PvP option  this would be even worse with more players that could crash the zones.

True, it would be best if this was fixed but even then I would be disappointed if Scenarios were no longer available.  

For me, if they made several more factions (I would say 4 factions would be good) and added several of the other races to the game. Then they would need to make every PvE quest and Public Quest (basically the entire game) as one giant PvP zone and remove scenarios (unless the scenarios existed in the world itself).

But this will never happen so...

I learned that Mark Jacobs got fired from Mythic by EA for running Warhammer into the ground like a WWII Japanese Kamikaze pilot a day ago.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Scenarios ruined the game.

Take out the scenarios, and you will have functioning game.

And make PVE quests in contested areas

This sounds good to me. 

The problem with WAR is theres not much OpenPvP, the pvpers are in the scenarios, and the pvers are in safe zones.  The lack of quest or interesting stuff in the "danger" and lack of something to do there mean are empty areas.   Also the division in several tiers is a good idea, but is distributing population way too much.  

Originally posted by fiontar

I never played the table top game, but I saw it played a number of times while playing MTG at local hobby shops. I seem to remember one of the players telling me that you could have matches between say Empire and Dwarves, even though both were considered "Good" races. Three factions may have made the difference for WAR.

Well.. there are not "good guys" in warhammer.  Even in WAR, the Empire faction is evil.  The witch hunter is supposed to be a "lets burn everybody, and let the gods pick the good ones". O overzealot bastard that will burn you to check if you where a witch or not.  Think the spanish inquisition.  The empire is dark, and amoral.   The chaos is not evil, per se,  is chaotic and corrupted, and follow his own needs.  But some of the chaos gods are of change, pride and war.  More like magic gods. Are more like neutral, with his own agenda of total universe domination, other than that, not evil. 

Since there are wars humans vs humans in real life, I don't see why you can't have wars humans vs humans in warhammer, or any random faction against other random faction. 

The "Good vs Evil" is just a stupid Walt Disney thing, and hollywood thing, but it don't really make much sense. 

note: I am not a warhammer fan.