End result, I dont see the big deal.  It seems like most of you want your jedi power trip from pre nge back. 

Facts are.

1) Normal people can kill jedis in large quantities (Reference star wars movies)

2) The game is going to be balanced and is going to include 8 classes regardless of what you say

It's just that simple.  Saying that a balanced mmo would not be star wars is folly.  Are the lord of the rings movies not really lotr because a few things were changed.  Is a book with a lenient interpretation of the cannon not a star wars book?  There's no reason to make a big deal over nothing.

so much bla bla bla for some shit that is already proven to be wrong geez

the game will be [nasty word here] balanced

Originally posted by stormious

Originally posted by Hrayr2148

Every thing about  the Star Wars universe tells us that Sith and Jedi are the most powerful.

Am I the only one that feels there's something wrong when a dinky Galactic Empire Soldier kills a Sith Lord?

It's imperative that the classes be equal in an mmo, but we also know that in the Star Wars universe they are not.

 

 

 

No, you are not alone in thinking this. I feel the same. Force users are more powerful, for the simple reason that they can use a strong power others can't.

That's why I think they should just have made two playable classes in opposing factions, namely Jedi and Sith, and to make the game sandbox to allow players to do all the other things the rest of the classes do.

It's not like a Jedi or Sith can't use fire-arms, gadgets, jetpacks, and everything else. In fact I don't think it would have been against the lore if a Jedi or Sith prefer to use fire-arms over lightsabers or some other means of fighting. The opposite. There are lots of Jedi and Sith and it would be logical to assume not everyone would want to fight with lightsabers and that they are trained in other means of fighting besides their lightsabers.

My point is. A lot of the Star Wars has to do with the force. There are only a small number of force users. Yet every Jedi or Sith certainly have the ability to do all the things the other classes do, Smuggling, Bounty-Hunting etc etc.. So, what is the need for those classes? I think it's a bit ridiculous to have those professions as classes at all. And what will they be like? Will every Bounty-Hunter run around in a Fett suit? Even though Fett is basically the only Bounty-Hunter in the SW universe I've seen that uses that outfit. And what says every Smuggler use the same skills and abilities in their trade.

The classes are just too vague. They are shooting themselves in the foot by implementing classes (Other than Jedi and Sith) in this game.

It would be immensely better for balancing too, because it would be easier to balance the game. Classes are a pain to keep balanced in any game. Besides, we all know what is going to happen to the class balance population-wise... Jedi and Sith overplayed (For obvious reasons.. duh, they are Jedi and Sith... I will be Sith myself..) and the rest underplayed.

Endnote: They should scrap classes and make it into a sandbox with Jedi and Sith playable. That's what would work best for the Star Wars IP!

Watch Episode 3..

The rest of what you say makes no sense.

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Originally posted by oddjobs74

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Originally posted by stormious

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Originally posted by Hrayr2148

Every thing about  the Star Wars universe tells us that Sith and Jedi are the most powerful.
Am I the only one that feels there's something wrong when a dinky Galactic Empire Soldier kills a Sith Lord?
It's imperative that the classes be equal in an mmo, but we also know that in the Star Wars universe they are not.
 
 

---

 
No, you are not alone in thinking this. I feel the same. Force users are more powerful, for the simple reason that they can use a strong power others can't.
That's why I think they should just have made two playable classes in opposing factions, namely Jedi and Sith, and to make the game sandbox to allow players to do all the other things the rest of the classes do.
It's not like a Jedi or Sith can't use fire-arms, gadgets, jetpacks, and everything else. In fact I don't think it would have been against the lore if a Jedi or Sith prefer to use fire-arms over lightsabers or some other means of fighting. The opposite. There are lots of Jedi and Sith and it would be logical to assume not everyone would want to fight with lightsabers and that they are trained in other means of fighting besides their lightsabers.
My point is. A lot of the Star Wars has to do with the force. There are only a small number of force users. Yet every Jedi or Sith certainly have the ability to do all the things the other classes do, Smuggling, Bounty-Hunting etc etc.. So, what is the need for those classes? I think it's a bit ridiculous to have those professions as classes at all. And what will they be like? Will every Bounty-Hunter run around in a Fett suit? Even though Fett is basically the only Bounty-Hunter in the SW universe I've seen that uses that outfit. And what says every Smuggler use the same skills and abilities in their trade.
The classes are just too vague. They are shooting themselves in the foot by implementing classes (Other than Jedi and Sith) in this game.
It would be immensely better for balancing too, because it would be easier to balance the game. Classes are a pain to keep balanced in any game. Besides, we all know what is going to happen to the class balance population-wise... Jedi and Sith overplayed (For obvious reasons.. duh, they are Jedi and Sith... I will be Sith myself..) and the rest underplayed.
Endnote: They should scrap classes and make it into a sandbox with Jedi and Sith playable. That's what would work best for the Star Wars IP!

---

Watch Episode 3..
 
The rest of what you say makes no sense.

---

You sound like a broken record.

Besides the ENTIRE prequel era doesn't really relate to the TOR era. Jedi during Anakin's time were much weaker compared to their TOR counterparts.

Originally posted by oddjobs74

Originally posted by Hrayr2148

Every thing about  the Star Wars universe tells us that Sith and Jedi are the most powerful.

Am I the only one that feels there's something wrong when a dinky Galactic Empire Soldier kills a Sith Lord?

It's imperative that the classes be equal in an mmo, but we also know that in the Star Wars universe they are not.

 

 

Watch episode 3

Yes, Sith and Jedi are the most powerful, and should always be the most powerful. A dinky Galactic Soldier would be a very low level character, as opposed to a Sith Lord, in which the Lordship alone would require a  high level. Level 5 characters do not kill level 40 plus characters, quite simple. However, when there are multiple blasters being fired in a high volume, Jedis will fail, as evident in the movies. Oh, and what was that crazy driod that collected lightsabers from slain jedi? Perhaps droids and non-human characters will be allowed, thus giving greater abilities to non-force users. I think the trooper class should come in a squad, making you a real commander of other troopers, and a much more deadly adversary. At least, they should be able to recruit other soldiers.

If you know the lore at all, jedi and sith are not the elite all the time. Only certain ones are concidered to be real Masters. Most jedi or sith can be killed by non-force sensitives. One example is Jango Fett in the Manda wars, killed numerous jedi.

Along with the Mandalorian stuff, there were many Manda's that had the same armor that the Fetts had. It wasnt just something just for them.

Lastly if we want to be technical about sith and jedi being so tough. Darth Bane explains that the more Sith you have running around the weaker the Dark powers are for the sith lords. Thats one main reason why he killed off all the  Sith and established the rule of 2.  Maybe they should set that up for the darkside kids......the more sith that are on the weaker they are at solo, lol. Imagine they forum babies then.

In the end it does make sense that the classes are balanced, if you think not you should read alittle.

Originally posted by reid424

Han is correct it is a game and also if they had sith and jedi just a small amount more powerful than you have a repeat of SWG were the end result was a combat upgrade than a new game exprience. Simply put jedi and sith despite how powerful can be killed by commons or non force sensetive. Non Jedi/Sith can survive in places that jedi/sith can't due to the force being overwhelming; that aside I feel that each of the classes are going to be balanced and each offers its own unique story. and lets not forget revenge of the sith jedi died to simple clone troopers yes in mass numbers but they still died and lots of those were masters. So that being said sith or jedi should stay balanced it makes the game equally fun and prevents the already swelling jedi/sith ranks from getting any bigger. Oh and i forgot don't forget about mandalorians they gave the jedi a run for their money on the battlefield same as the echani.

You sir should read my post...here I'll give you the link directly so you have to do absolutely no work what so ever other than clicking the thing.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2902125/thread/240606#2902125

Since everyone seems hellbent on saying jedi are to powerful and the game will be horrid because of the balancing act,

assume that you are the most sorry assed pathetic jedi and or sith ever to grace the star wars universe and you struggle against commando's to survive.  =)

I remember when Jedi were absurdly overpowered.  Those days are long gone.  Have any of you played KoToR, or KoToR 2? Yeah, any shmuck with a sword can give you a run for your money.  Not even a lightsaber... a vibroblade.  And that's just 3 on 1.  Don't even talk about 10+ baddies, you had better run.  Take your double-bladed lightsaber with you.

I think somewhere, they let Boba Fett beat a Jedi in the EU.  Flame Throwers, Rockets, cords and stuff... and suddenly, Jedi became un-uber.  They were still awesome, and mystical and crap, but they were no longer in a league of their own, they were just all exceptional.  Then a string of exceptional people began to level up and bang with Jedi.  Teras Kasi artists.  Force-Sensitive Tricksters.  Large Amounts of droids.  Large amounts of Clone troopers.  Large amounts of silly flying bug people.  Then Robots with Electrified Batons that could BLOCK LIGHTSABERS (oy!).

And now we come to the present day, where anyone, if they're good enough, can kill a Jedi, or a Sith. We've seen Commandoes one shot escaping Jedi that just got done carving up a squad of commandoes.  We've seen Jango lose, not because Jedi are awesome, but because his jet pack got randomly banged up.  Most Jedi were killed by Clone Troopers.  Jedi are no longer uber, and if  Jedi aren't uber, you can be the Sith aren't either.

And for those thinking 'Jedi can do all that.' Their code says they can't, even if they're capable of it.  The Sith's pursuit of the dark side keeps them from doing stuff everyone else does as well.

The Lore, has balanced Jedi.  No reason for the game not to follow suit.

Originally posted by SonikFlash

End result, I dont see the big deal.  It seems like most of you want your jedi power trip from pre nge back. 

Facts are.

1) Normal people can kill jedis in large quantities (Reference star wars movies)

2) The game is going to be balanced and is going to include 8 classes regardless of what you say

It's just that simple.  Saying that a balanced mmo would not be star wars is folly.  Are the lord of the rings movies not really lotr because a few things were changed.  Is a book with a lenient interpretation of the cannon not a star wars book?  There's no reason to make a big deal over nothing.

Exactly this.  The game is far from release and beta has not started, I'm sure they have balance in their minds.  There is plenty of information out there about the less experienced Jedi meeting their fate.

Here im sure this will end the issue.

http://www.massively.com/2008/10/24/the-old-republic-unveiled-classes-jedi-and-crafting/

Um, if I remember correctly....

It was troopers that wiped out the majority of the Jedi....

Jedi and Sith are powerful, yes, but they are not gods. Let's not also forget that the characters we will be playing are exceptions to the common fodder.

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

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Originally posted by oddjobs74

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Originally posted by stormious

---

Originally posted by Hrayr2148

 

Every thing about  the Star Wars universe tells us that Sith and Jedi are the most powerful.
Am I the only one that feels there's something wrong when a dinky Galactic Empire Soldier kills a Sith Lord?
It's imperative that the classes be equal in an mmo, but we also know that in the Star Wars universe they are not.
 
 

---

 
No, you are not alone in thinking this. I feel the same. Force users are more powerful, for the simple reason that they can use a strong power others can't.
That's why I think they should just have made two playable classes in opposing factions, namely Jedi and Sith, and to make the game sandbox to allow players to do all the other things the rest of the classes do.
It's not like a Jedi or Sith can't use fire-arms, gadgets, jetpacks, and everything else. In fact I don't think it would have been against the lore if a Jedi or Sith prefer to use fire-arms over lightsabers or some other means of fighting. The opposite. There are lots of Jedi and Sith and it would be logical to assume not everyone would want to fight with lightsabers and that they are trained in other means of fighting besides their lightsabers.
My point is. A lot of the Star Wars has to do with the force. There are only a small number of force users. Yet every Jedi or Sith certainly have the ability to do all the things the other classes do, Smuggling, Bounty-Hunting etc etc.. So, what is the need for those classes? I think it's a bit ridiculous to have those professions as classes at all. And what will they be like? Will every Bounty-Hunter run around in a Fett suit? Even though Fett is basically the only Bounty-Hunter in the SW universe I've seen that uses that outfit. And what says every Smuggler use the same skills and abilities in their trade.
The classes are just too vague. They are shooting themselves in the foot by implementing classes (Other than Jedi and Sith) in this game.
It would be immensely better for balancing too, because it would be easier to balance the game. Classes are a pain to keep balanced in any game. Besides, we all know what is going to happen to the class balance population-wise... Jedi and Sith overplayed (For obvious reasons.. duh, they are Jedi and Sith... I will be Sith myself..) and the rest underplayed.
Endnote: They should scrap classes and make it into a sandbox with Jedi and Sith playable. That's what would work best for the Star Wars IP!

---

Watch Episode 3..
 
The rest of what you say makes no sense.

---

 

You sound like a broken record.

Besides the ENTIRE prequel era doesn't really relate to the TOR era. Jedi during Anakin's time were much weaker compared to their TOR counterparts.
 

Actually, if you watch the documentary by George Lucas, Jedi in Episodes I-III are just as powerful, if not more so, then those of the TOR era. This is why it is such a big deal what Anakin and the Emperor did. They demolished an long-standing era and Epsodes IV-VI show the aftermath of that era.

As for the quoted comment on other classes besides Jedi, they have commented that not everyone wants to play a Jedi. I happen to be one of them. I plan on playing a Trooper and/or Bounty Hunter. Throughout the films, more Jedi were killed by droids and troopers than by Sith. Jedi and Sith are well trained, yes, but they are not infallable.

Originally posted by Kshahdoo

 

 

As far as I remember games are all about heroes. Or you wanna say all siths/jedis in SWTOR will be average Joes and all others - super-duper pros?

You're a moron, flat out.

Being Force sensitive automatically puts you as being in a small percentage of the population.

Basically think of it like this:

Being Force sensitive = ~1-3% of the galactic population (note: GALACTIC)

Being an elite top of the line trooper = ~1-3% of the galactic population

being a creme de la creme of bounty hunters = ~1-3% of the galactic population.

See where I'm going with this?

There was only ever one Luke Skywalker. One Obi Wan, one Vader and so on and so forth.

The best way I can describe your importance in TOR is to think of the ARC troopers that were with Obi Wan and on their own in that Clone Wars mini-series that was on Cartoon Network.

They were not main story characters, but still had a noticeable part to play.

PC's in TOR are supporting actors folks, not main characters of the overall story. Get over yourselves already.

Practice shows that in war between lore and money the latter always win. The game sure will be balanced. But most people in SW wanna be superpower shining knights or superpower rotting villains to fight each other. What BioWare is developing right now is different so i'm not sure they will succeed. At least I'm not gonna play it. But if it will succeed then it's all to the best for BioWare and EA...

Bioware should have just made everyone a Jedi.

Have starting classes that later could develop into more specific roles.

Guardians could specialize into being either a tank or dps.

Consulars specialize into dps or healing.

Sentinels specialize into a melee/ranged dps or group support.

As stated so many times before, in the movies we all have been following the jedi master's, or the Sith lord's...

All the jedi's are not as powerful as e.g. Luke Skywalker, some of the jedi's are still on apprentice / padawan level. Ofcourse they are in top 'cause of the force powers, but they shouldn't be OP...

A nice thermal detonator against a jedi / sith works just fine.

Originally posted by Snievan

Bioware should have just made everyone a Jedi.

Have starting classes that later could develop into more specific roles.

Guardians could specialize into being either a tank or dps.

Consulars specialize into dps or healing.

Sentinels specialize into a melee/ranged dps or group support.

 

I have no problem setting Jedi as a path for classes.  So you can be smugler half your life, and one day born in the force, join the sith academy, and end as a Lord Sith, just because you are powerfull enough.

Or continue as a smuggler and become rich and powerfull with gadgets and skills :-)

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

I sense a great disturbance in the force, as if a single Sith voice cried out 'wtf', and was suddenly silenced.

By mah gun.

Lmao.

Sig-worthy material, good sir.

The only thing about this class balance that im concerned with is the extent in which it will be. As long as healers only heal, dps kill things and have little defense, tanks take the hits and deal little damage......you get the point, i will be content.

I really hope they do not emulate the other 95% of MMOs were every class is a killer. That make 0 sense IMO. There is a total difference between a Soldier, Doctor and a Crafter.  I can only hope that the balance is light DPS = dark DPS and so forth. Otherwise itll be just another clone with different skins.

Stealing the job seperation from Pre NGE / FFXI and the few other games would be perfect.

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Originally posted by takayi
As stated so many times before, in the movies we all have been following the jedi master's, or the Sith lord's...

All the jedi's are not as powerful as e.g. Luke Skywalker, some of the jedi's are still on apprentice / padawan level. Ofcourse they are in top 'cause of the force powers, but they shouldn't be OP...

A nice thermal detonator against a jedi / sith works just fine.

---

Luke Skywalker was a padawan when he almost killed his father. Anakin was a padawan too during The Clone Wars... Most people know of SW universe from films but there are dozens of books, games, manuals where there are tones of things about jedi. Even a common sense says that if you have some supernatural abilities and practicing in them from childhood you become a supernatural person by yourself... But I actually don't care what BioWare is gonna do with the game. It's their game and their money...

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Originally posted by andredoc
To clear things up about lightsaber cutting power
 
Aside from the blade of another lightsaber, there were rare materials that could withstand a lightsaber blade, but with varying degrees of success:
* Cortosis, although a rare and expensive metal, was a common defense against lightsabers. One of the reasons it was so expensive was the need to refine it. Pure, unrefined, Cortosis ore was, for unexplained reasons, ionized and anyone who touched it would be killed instantly. There were three known methods of forging cortosis armor and weapons, each with varying effects:
Shadday Potkin duels Darth Vader using a Sword of cortosis weave.
The first method was to make the armor or weapon with a cortosis weave, which utilized the ore's primary elements. When contacted by a lightsaber's blade, the cortosis fibers that were worked into the metal caused a surge that shorted out the energy blade. The lightsaber could be reactivated immediately, but it gave the opponent the momentary upper hand.
The most common and inexpensive method employed during the Jedi Civil War was the use of a variant cortosis alloy that resisted the lightsaber blade itself, although it did not cause the lightsaber to deactivate. This enabled troops to fight Jedi or Sith blade-to-blade.
The rarest type of cortosis came in the form of a refined metal with all the impure elements removed. Thus purified, there were no "weaker" metals for the lightsaber to damage, and unique conducting elements remained to short out the energy blade. This refined alloy, nicknamed a cortosis shield was most often employed as armor.
* Lightfoil were small and elegant energy swords based upon lightsabers. They were popular among certain nobles of the Tapani sector, especially those that called themselves "saber rakes". Lightfoils were weaker than authentic lightsabers due to the poor quality focusing crystals used in their manufacture and the relatively low level of craftsmanship compared to Jedi artisans. They did not require any connection to the Force to create, and were fully usable by non-Force sensitives.
* Phrik, was a rare metallic compound that could withstand a lightsaber blade, although unlike the aforementioned metal, Phrik did not possess the ability to cause the blade to short out. Phrik was most notably used in the construction of the electrostaffs wielded by General Grievous's MagnaGuards. Other notable uses of Phrik included elements of Palpatine's lightsaber and Dark Trooper armor.
* Darkswords were an ancient type of sword made from a special material that could parry lightsabers. Unlike cortosis, this material did not possess the ability to temporarily deactivate a lightsaber blade it made contact with.
A Jedi uses his lightsaber against a Vaklu soldier's cortosis alloy vibrosword.
* Armorweave was a cloth said to give some resistance to lightsabers, although the protection the reinforced material afforded was limited.
* Sith Alchemy was employed during the eras of the first Sith Empire to augment the properties of metals so as to counter the seemingly unstoppable lightsaber. The Sith also made use of such elements as cortosis in the forging of their Sith swords. After the original Sith Empire, the most notorious use of Sith alchemy was in the construction and reinforcement of Darth Vader's armor.
* Mandalorian iron: A metal used by the Mandalorian warriors.
* Force Weapon: Weapons imbued with the power of the Force could be used to parry a lightsaber's blade without harm.
* Water: All lightsabers, unless specially made,[13] would short out when they were submerged in water, due to rapid chain reactions and the instant overpowering of water on the blade. In rain, a lightsaber would steam up, but not short out.[16]
Other counteracting materials existed in the galaxy, such as various energy shields. Some animals, such as lava dragons, were possessed of natural armor that reflected the blade. Superconductive materials (such as Ultrachrome) have a degree of resistance to lightsaber strikes.

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Cortosis was invented by BioWare for KotOR. There wasn't such metal in films and books. And the reason of this is pretty obvious. Because EVEN MORONS DON'T USE SWORDS WHEN THEY HAVE PLASMA RIFLES! Lightsaber is a devastating weapon only in jedi hands. Because he can protect himself from ranged weapons. Common humans can't so melee weapons are useless for them. But in videogames vibroswords are sure more effective than plasma rifles...

John Stalvern waited. The lights above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There were sith in the base. He didn't see them, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to Cernel Joson were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.
John was a smuggler for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the spaceships and he said to dad "I want to be on the ships daddy."
Dad said "No! You will BE KILL BY SITH"
There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the space station base of the empire he knew there were sith .
"This is Joson" the radio crackered. "You must fight the sith!"
So John gotted his palsma rifle and blew up the wall.
"HE GOING TO KILL US" said the sith
"I will shoot at him" said the sith lrod and he fired the rocket missiles. John plasmaed at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill.
"No! I must kill the sith" he shouted
The radio said "No, John. You are the sith"
And then John joined teh dark seid

Humor aside...

For the sake of the game, don't overpower force users.