Are there any FPS forums where people acuse every new FPS of being a clone of some other highly successful FPS such as people do here with "WoW clone" ??

I'm just so confused by that statement all the time. MMO has become a genre... things are going to be similar from one title to the next. It's unavoidable.

Personally as a gamer who played this genre heaviest in mid to late 90's I always looked forward to the day when I had more than a handful of games to choose from. Back then it was like maybe 4 or 5 mainstream western titles and perhaps 10-15 asian titles. It was like Christmas anytime you found a new game to mess around on but now everyone is so... spoiled.

Blah.

It might be the lack of a clear delineation of genres between typical MMORPGs and sandbox MMORPGs.

Lack of a clear delineation, combined with a vocal minority of players actively seeking sandbox MMORPGs, results in "clone" statements.

EDIT: Nevermind, this is totally wrong. Because RTS and FPS genres have lots of subdivisions and yet they still largely escape "clone" comments.

Originally posted by Furyus

Are there any FPS forums where people acuse every new FPS of being a clone of some other highly successful FPS such as people do here with "WoW clone" ??

I'm just so confused by that statement all the time. MMO has become a genre... things are going to be similar from one title to the next. It's unavoidable.

I dunno, there's a lot of variation in the MMO genre; probably more so than in the typical FPS. There are differences between them but the core gameplay (point crosshair and shoot) doesn't change much, whereas the difference between a highly instanced PVE themepark and an open-world open-PVP sandbox are far more considerable.

Personally as a gamer who played this genre heaviest in mid to late 90's I always looked forward to the day when I had more than a handful of games to choose from. Back then it was like maybe 4 or 5 mainstream western titles and perhaps 10-15 asian titles. It was like Christmas anytime you found a new game to mess around on but now everyone is so... spoiled.

Many MMO gamers are snobbish, greedy and self-centered. When a game comes out that's not specifically targeted to them, they are unhappy.

If you take forum posts as serious commentary worthy of dialog and debate then you're going to lead a very frustrating life.

I have definately heard the words "Halo Clone" or "Doom Clone" bantered about a few times. And they're just as ridiculous.

To be honest I'm half-tempted to throw out a rant about people who use the stupid "this is a clone of x game" argument every time something new comes out, but I'd be wasting my breath and this would turn into a 45-page argument about WoW that's been done 324325486764324564x10^4  times.

Well WoW clone is only appropriate in very few contexts. WoW did change the way MMORPGS dealth with certain things. I can't speak for UO or AC but EQ, EQ2, DaoC, City of Heroes some of the most popular 3D MMORPGS all used a greater risk vs reward system. WoW pretty much eliminated the risk part. Deaths in all those games had a penalty towards your experience points. City of Heroes had a slightly different approach with an exp debt system but it all boiled down to the same. In WoW nobody cares about dying because there is zero penalty for it. I don't call running back to your corpse in ghostform a risk or a penalty

So when i talk of WoW clones i speak strictly of a risk vs reward systems where the risks are non-existant. That's just one out of several things WoW changed from the popular 3D MMORPGs.

There are other things WoW has coined such as

Extreme fast levelling

Solo friendliness for all classes

Simplified Gameplay

 etc.

The term is used way too much though. Now every game that has a quest system + battlegrounds is a WoW clone.

People do it with FPS games, fighting games, and RTS,  you just don't see it as often.  People have no problem going back to their previous game or looking past it and playing for fun, remember there's no "grind" in FPS's or fighting games, unless you count getting better as a player a grind, but you aren't forced to do it in order to have fun.

I have no problem with "clones" if they at least bring something new to the table and do it well.  Some people can't stand it, they want something new and fresh which is understandable sometimes.  MMO gamers typically spend a ton of time in a paticular  game, chasing carrots, for years. They get hyped up on something new, and find out they are chasing the same carrot.  This is especially annoying in MMOs that are all about the end game.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing some more sandbox "clones".

What is so confusing about the term "WoW clone"?  Its pretty self explanatory. I can try to explain it to you if you really need someone to.

Its kind of like saying "DIablo clone". If you're also confused by that term, then maybe I can't explain anything to you.

It is the large number of features in an MMORPG, how you can develop those features, and the potential to make new and exciting games with that combination that results in the clone comments.

A first person shooter usually has weapons and maps. You can change the weapons and change the maps but the game remains relatively the same. Capture the flag, or death match pretty much covers it, with some slight variations.

Real time strategy is similar. Collect resources, build units, destroy the enemy. You can change the resources and the units, tech trees, etc., but the game stays relatvely the same.

But an MMORGP has PvP (which includes Duel, RvR, and FFA), PvE, Crafting, Questing, territory control (or not),  Instancing, Open World, NPC dialog, puzzles, housing, and other features. The way you combine these features can result in a totally diifferent game experience.

Look at Puzzle Pirates, EVE, WoW, and DAoC. These are all MMORPGs but they are all very, very different from one another because of the way the features are combined or emphasized.

I don't think you can point out 4 Real Time Strategy games, or 4 First Person Shooter games that are taht differernt from one another.

So, since the possiblity doesn't really exist for vastly different FPS or RTS games, calling them clones of one another is pointless. That's a given. But with MMORPGs the possiblity does exist to make a vastly different game that's still part of the genre, hence the "clone" pejorative is used when applicable.

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Originally posted by brostyn
What is so confusing about the term "WoW clone"?  Its pretty self explanatory. I can try to explain it to you if you really need someone to.
 
Its kind of like saying "DIablo clone". If you're also confused by that term, then maybe I can't explain anything to you.

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Originally posted by Vespers

 

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Originally posted by brostyn
What is so confusing about the term "WoW clone"?  Its pretty self explanatory. I can try to explain it to you if you really need someone to.
 
Its kind of like saying "DIablo clone". If you're also confused by that term, then maybe I can't explain anything to you.

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It's just that WOW is more or less a clone of EQ1 except for it being on "Super Easy" mode. Yes, WOW did manage to change a few things up a bit from EQ1 but the foundation is the same. So, if you start saying a MMO is a WOW clone than it had better be an exact copy of WOW (meaning no variations of content) otherwise we can all start refering to WOW as that other EQ1 clone. So, the term "WOW Clone" doesnt really refer to any MMO currently on the market. Alot of them do seem to have certain aspects of WOW but they also have certain aspects from other games as well.

 

I believe the term "WoW clone" is generally used to denote  a themepark game, vs a game with more sandbox elements. Darkfall, for example, is not a WoW clone.

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Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Darkfall, for example, is not a WoW clone.

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And it is also not a sandbox.

No mmo is GTA- Sandbox...

DFO is as much as you will find in a full loot 3/4 pvp game

Originally posted by brostyn

What is so confusing about the term "WoW clone"?  Its pretty self explanatory. I can try to explain it to you if you really need someone to.

 

Its kind of like saying "DIablo clone". If you're also confused by that term, then maybe I can't explain anything to you.

Explain it then. Use this as a base explanation.

From wikipedia

A video game clone is a video game or game series which is very similar to or heavily inspired by a previous popular game or game series. Some video game genres are founded by such archetypal games that all subsequent similar games are thought of as derivatives.

The term is sometimes derogatory, implying a lack of originality but clones can be anything from a pure "ripoff", to a legitimate derivative or improvement on the original or even a homage to it.

In the early video game industry, making a clone of a game was not illegal, provided no outright copyright violation or trademark infringement was involved but as the gaming market grew, large developers gained the ability to sue the developers of clones which were too similar to originals.[1] Look and feel lawsuits, such as the one Capcom filed against Data East over the game Fighter's History[citation needed], are an option for developers who feel their franchises are at risk, but are not common due to the legal complexities involved. With the adoption of software patents in some countries, e.g. in the United States in the 1990s, clone games are at far greater legal risk.

At times, games can be considered clones by the uninformed gamer if they resemble a modern popular game regardless of whether or not the game that has been "cloned" was completely original or not. An example of this is the way the majority of isometric RPG titles are considered clones of Blizzard's popular Diablo game, despite the fact that Diablo did not pioneer this style of gameplay and was in itself heavily influenced by Ultima VIII.

Early arcade games such as Space Invaders have been cloned very widely especially in 1980s and still in early 1990s. Most of clones have been published by freeware computer game designers but there have also been many commercially released clones of those games. Freeware released have often been very straight clones with only some minor elements and possibly the game's title changed

How many times does this have to be explained? WoW is the "touchstone" for the industry at this point in time, and there's been one in pretty much EVERY subject field of all time. For example, pretty much every conqueror gets compared to Alexander the Great, as he's the touchstone for that subject.

It's about a combination of success and ability, and - perhaps unfortunately - EQ didn't have that "oomph" to get to be the touchstone.

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Originally posted by xxxfistxxx
No mmo is GTA- Sandbox...
DFO is as much as you will find in a full loot 3/4 pvp game
 

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UO is both a sandbox and (with Siege Perilous shard) full loot.

Your statement is false.

Originally posted by Furyus

Are there any FPS forums where people acuse every new FPS of being a clone of some other highly successful FPS such as people do here with "WoW clone" ??

 

I'm just so confused by that statement all the time. MMO has become a genre... things are going to be similar from one title to the next. It's unavoidable.

Personally as a gamer who played this genre heaviest in mid to late 90's I always looked forward to the day when I had more than a handful of games to choose from. Back then it was like maybe 4 or 5 mainstream western titles and perhaps 10-15 asian titles. It was like Christmas anytime you found a new game to mess around on but now everyone is so... spoiled.

 

 

Blah.

Okey here goes EA sports NHL game have alot of diffrent reincarnation thru the years, but at its core its the same game, so we might call this a clone.
 

World of Warcraft has a basic system, you move with WSD, you have your mini map, spells/ablities etc. But you also have battlegrounds, PVe raids and so on. and you have a Level progression thru zones.

Now EvE is a totaly diffrent typ of game, you have no mini map, You equip your ship with items, rather then gain spells and ablities, have no classes and you dont level.

They are both Massive multiplayer games, but they play alot diffrently.

Warhammer online on the other hand have everything that wow has, and have just thrown in thier RvR combat ( not so diffrent to be called revolutionary and they have Public quest. But if you play both games you soon realize, they work almost 90% alike at thier core. 

Now I would call Warhammer a clone, they just dident bring anything new to the table that we had not seen before.

Then we have Age of Conan. This game has the minimap, it has levels, but its combat playes alot diffrently, no target system for example, also it has mounted combat, every class can use stealth. Instanced zones. You can climb, up Buildings and mountains,  And they did not have any Item focus at launch, they are changing this now but in the begining it was not gear dependent at all. They have new types of emotes like /lean, you can lean against buildings etc. in the PVP servers there are no safe zones after Tortage

Now I would not call  Agae of Conan a clone.

See the diffrence here, if you do not bring enough new content or innovation, you risk becoming a clone like warhammer did, and there subs are hurting right now because of it.

Come on….another thread clone, how many more threads do we need before we have a WoW thread killer?

Message from the Surgeon General: Always take gaming forums with a pinch of salt, it's good for your blood pressure. :)

I suppose you also throw a fit when somebody says something "tastes like chicken."

And another thread "i'm-so-cool-i-enjoy-new-MMOs-you-are-whiners".

i will give you the answer to your question. the reason they so often compare other mmo games to WoW is because it was either the first mmo they have ever played or think blizzard invented mmo's. (mostly children) also, a lot of people will relate to it. if you say "its like wow" so many people have played it before it helps them understand what you are talking about.

It's based on mostly how MMO's work. It's a mix of endgame structure, leveling system, class system, graphics and story which IMO defines the MMO. I think that there aren't any WoW clones around, but DaoC and EQ clones. The clearest sequels for both types right now are WoW and FFXI. As you can see, WoW is better than it's EQ counterpart and that's why the developers choose to make a DaoC type game rather than EQ type game because they think it appeals most to the mainstream. Only way to break from this trend would be to make a Better EQ clone than WoW is a DaoC clone. That would mean that devs would start making more EQ clones though in expense of DaoC clones, so it only changes to another extreme. We'll only start hearing of tons of "EQ-sequel clones" coming out instead.

It's hard to notice if you haven't played an EQ clone before, but for someone who has played both it's pretty clear. If all you've played in your life are DaoC clones, this kind of claim would sound silly for sure.

Originally posted by Furyus

Are there any FPS forums where people acuse every new FPS of being a clone of some other highly successful FPS such as people do here with "WoW clone" ??

 

I'm just so confused by that statement all the time. MMO has become a genre... things are going to be similar from one title to the next. It's unavoidable.

Personally as a gamer who played this genre heaviest in mid to late 90's I always looked forward to the day when I had more than a handful of games to choose from. Back then it was like maybe 4 or 5 mainstream western titles and perhaps 10-15 asian titles. It was like Christmas anytime you found a new game to mess around on but now everyone is so... spoiled.

 

 

Blah.

Well geez.  Sorry to the lot of you that replied with the definition of the word 'clone' or to those that gathered from my post that my blood pressure was elevated,  I was throwing a fit or that I was confused by the actual word.

Honestly I just wanted to know if other players from other genres do the same thing.  Just looking for a little discussion.

Now I'm confused about people who reply to posts with answers to questions that were never asked.  Hmm.