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6/18/09 8:25:55 PM#51
Originally posted by hubertgrove
Please stop trying to close down discussion and speculation just because you, as a fanboi, disagree with it. I personally am as interested as the OP - and other posters in this thread - as how groups who must arrive at ONE decision to move on will deal with MULTIPLE OPINIONS since each opinon affects the indiviual player. The dev's don't even know yet, so it's a moot point at this time. Source: pc.ign.com/dor/objects/816935/bioware-mmo-project/videos/e3live_starwarsoldrepublic.html
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson If I respond to you I don't find you to be a yes man or grumpy smurf. |
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6/18/09 8:30:21 PM#52
The question what really is a MMO have been up before, about both DDO and Guildwars. The thing is that a MMO doesn't really have to be like Wow, as long as you can see and interact with thousands of players it is a MMO. I will not say that TOR is a MMO since I havn't played it however but this thread is just specualtions. |
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6/18/09 9:12:37 PM#53
its really too soon to tell. right now they are marketing they most innovative piece of the game. So they arent yet focusing on the other things that we are really focused on( mmo aspects). We just have to wait and see. but i think at this point its stupid to form a conclusion of what this game will be like.
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Too funny.. even Tom Nichols from Bioware has labeled the game "KoTOR 3, KoTOR 4 and KoTOR 5 in one"..... lmao |
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6/18/09 9:28:45 PM#55
Originally posted by Rydeson
And somewhere else it was mentioned they would have all of the features of a AAA+ MMO or something along those lines... |
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6/18/09 9:30:00 PM#56
Originally posted by jadan2000
Eh, I for one am really focused on the story element. The thing that killed WoW for me is that I have no say in the narative nor do I get to make any decisions that really matter. That gets dang boring, and while the shallow combat mechanics don't help I welcome a game that gives the player choices that matter story-wise. |
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6/18/09 9:43:23 PM#57
I just don't get it. People are constantly demanding the genre change. Now we have a game that is only slightly doing things differently and all you can do is bitch and whine about whether it will have all the outdated and craptastic features that have infested the genre since it's inception. You can't have both, so you better make up your minds. My gawd, you people have plenty of other MMOs to play, why do you feel the need to transform this one into the same old crap we already have? It's not like we don't see what all these posts are really about. You're hoping that if you post enough complaints, it will seem like the majority of players aren't wanting the type of game play that Bioware is shooting for and they will therefore change direction. As if the old school death grip on the genre isn't bad enough, you can't stand the thought of one single game doing things differently. |
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Originally posted by Wyldsong
And somewhere else it was mentioned they would have all of the features of a AAA+ MMO or something along those lines...
WHICH is logically impossible.. or Bioware is lying thru their teeth.. I too hear Bioware saying it will have some traditional mmo stuff, but then turns around says that there will be no grinding.. etc etc.. no crafting.. .. wait.. maybe a lil crafting but no player economy.. Everything I hear from Bioware anymore is like listening to a politician.. They will say whatever they need to say to get approval to whatever audience they are talking to.. |
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6/18/09 9:55:13 PM#59
To be honest the game will be what it is regardless of what you want to call it. Call a dog a mouse all you want, its still a dog. If its fun, then its fun and I'll play it. I don't care if its a sorpg, mmorpg, corpg, mmofps, mmofpsrpg,spofpsrpg.
To the OP, thousands of people will kill the same captain, this is no different than in any other online game. Your very own character suffers many deaths yet lives on. I suspect if the person who killed the captain and the person who doesn't is grouped then there will be 2 chance encounters, one where the family seeks revenge and another where they reward the friend that saved the capt. These will most likely happen at randomly different times. In the scenario where they were seeking revenge then I would assume that all members of the party would draw aggro and be able to attack. Then again they could play out another scenario that even though you saved the capt, and your friend didn't, when the family comes for revenge you have yet another choice to make, do I kill the captain's family to help my buddy or let them duke it out solo. If you kill his family well here comes the capt for you, then who cares if you both attack since your buddy already killed him once. Its quite impossible to eliminate paradox in an mmo without breaking the game and making it unfun unless the entire pve experience is solo'd and the endgame has pvp. Nice poem early on btw, enjoyed that. |
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6/18/09 9:56:04 PM#60
Originally posted by Vrazule
^^QFT save for one point. Most of the clonage out there, including WoW, aren't MMORPGs either. Because they're not RPGs. You don't "play a character in a story along with many other people", you run a build through missions to gain levels and loot. There's no character-driven decisions that affect the storyline, there's fixed missions and ability-driven decisions made because of your build's defensive and offensive abilities. You could have a preprogrammed robot MMO character choosing missions and actions to maximize it's gains and minimize it's risks and you couldn't tell the difference from the gameplay of most so-called "MMORPG"s. BioWare is making us a TRUE MMORPG - we will play characters in a story, along with lots of other people at the same time. Our decisions will CHANGE THE STORY that we experience as we play further. That my friends, makes SWTOR the very first true MMORPG ever created. I can't wait.
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6/18/09 10:14:07 PM#61
Originally posted by Rydeson
WHICH is logically impossible.. or Bioware is lying thru their teeth.. I too hear Bioware saying it will have some traditional mmo stuff, but then turns around says that there will be no grinding.. etc etc.. no crafting.. .. wait.. maybe a lil crafting but no player economy.. Everything I hear from Bioware anymore is like listening to a politician.. They will say whatever they need to say to get approval to whatever audience they are talking to..
I won't get much deeper into this but to say this leads us back to the point that we really do not have enough information to know what the game will be like. What is said and what products actually end up being through time/creation/realization are usually slightly, if not very, different things. |
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6/18/09 10:31:21 PM#62
I'll throw out one more bone for the naysayers (and if this has been brought up, I apologize). What does MMO stand for? Massively Multiplayer Online If it has the potential to host large amounts of players online at once playing the same game, then regardless of what anyone thinks, it meets the requirements of those three words, regardless of gameplay and features. But, and it gets better, as long as it is an RPG, then we get to say it is an MMORPG, again meeting the requirements for all involved terms. Learn it, live it, love it. |
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6/18/09 10:42:10 PM#63
Originally posted by hubertgrove
Really? You don't think it was a rather leaden and childish insult to a poster making a valid point with which you have no answer but abuse? Guess not. Since the OP didn't actually have a fact based / informed point and instead was just voicing his personal opinion / thoughts / speculation. I'd say the response was justified. Untill he has actually played the game he really doesn't know what he is talking about does he? The response somes up the truth about the OP's post. Its "speculation", on things he "thinks", and "assumes" to be correct per his opinion. He certainly doesn't have the answer I don't and neither do you. The difference between you, me and him is he states as fact the game is not a MMO. His choice of titles for this thread to me does not seem like he wants to discuss, but has instead made up his mind on very little information and is set on spreading the word of what this MMO is (in his mind anyway) without really having any information to base his arguement on. |
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6/18/09 10:43:16 PM#64
Originally posted by Moodah
agreed |
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6/18/09 10:47:08 PM#65
Originally posted by winter
agreed
You could equally well say that about Tom Paine's 'The Rights of Man'. Oh, google it. |
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6/18/09 10:58:55 PM#66
Originally posted by Rydeson
WHICH is logically impossible.. or Bioware is lying thru their teeth.. I too hear Bioware saying it will have some traditional mmo stuff, but then turns around says that there will be no grinding.. etc etc.. no crafting.. .. wait.. maybe a lil crafting but no player economy.. Everything I hear from Bioware anymore is like listening to a politician.. They will say whatever they need to say to get approval to whatever audience they are talking to..
Please do tell how with the little information you have things are Logically impossible? (are you Psychic, have advanced degrees in computer programming and game developement etc? All I see is you saying you don't understand how it works with the little information you have so it must be impossible. ie and the world is flat, man will never fly, etc etc. Don't be a moron, and stop with the Bioware is lying to us conspiracy theorys already. The game can be Kotor 1-7 and still be a great MMO, just because you can't understand how something works doeesn't mean it can't. (I'm not a mechanic, i don't really understand how my car works past the simple parts yet it does. Once again are you a game developer, programmer etc? If not then theres probably alot of things you don't understand to be making broad statements such as it being logically impossible) If and when the game fails after its release some years from now you can come back and say I told you so all you want, in the meantime your just making yourself look like a bad. |
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6/18/09 11:01:37 PM#67
Originally posted by hubertgrove
You could equally well say that about Tom Paine's 'The Rights of Man'. Oh, google it. Really is that the best you could come up with? Keep dodging the point your very good at it. |
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6/18/09 11:03:43 PM#68
Its a mmo in the sense that it is online and its massive. I have said it before and I'l say it again it might not fit your "World of Warcraft" mmo outline fixation but regardless it has character advancement amoung people online, with story implemented. This is infact a MMO |
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6/18/09 11:06:50 PM#69
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman |
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6/18/09 11:22:11 PM#70
Originally posted by Rydeson
The biggest problem with your theory as I've stated in other anti bioware/TOR rants is why are you so concerned about what happens to your friend? If in your scenario your friend never killed the capt he obviously doesn't want negative faction with them so if they ignore his helping you and don't give him negative faction why would that bother you? You got to play the scenario with your friend which was the objective right? And if they did for the sake of realism make your friend gain negative faction then I'd assume you'd have to do the quest with someone else then eh? Though I suspect you are the type of player who would wine and complain either way.
Now what you describe in the last paragraph is a bastardization of what is planned as you can't go back to make decisions over but they have never stated that you would be forced to stay in the path you chose meaning "good" and "evil" options should always exist so while you may kill the captain the first time I don't think that means all of your choices remain evil in other scenarios you would still have the option to move your character over to the light side if you chose to.
I don't know if it's the fact that this game is not turning into SWG 2 or if some want to seem smart by predicting doom and gloom in the hopes that it does come true but some folks speculate far too much about things you could not possibly have any knowledge of atleast let the game get to alpha before ya start making all these know it all statements cause at this point there all just assumptions and when you assume you only make an ass of u and me. |
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6/18/09 11:37:43 PM#71
Originally posted by wootin
Let me address the OP. I do understand your concerns and do think they are valid. Guildwars had the same thing. Story driven and choices you made affected you later down the line. Yet having a single player in your party that made choices different then you ended up spoiling the immersion. I enjoyed the story but the immersion was gone when it came to grouping. Now for the above quote. While I dont consider Guildwars as an MMO (Even though it does fit the criteria of an MMO) it has already done the story line bit so no, SWTOR wouldnt be the first. Heck even back in EQ1 days, it did have a story (a very rich lore if you actually spent the time and read it) and some decisions you made in the game did have drastic changes to peoples chars (The paladin sword quest for example). As for your RPG statement. All that you quoted are actually MMORPG's because RPG stands for Role Playing Game. It was left up to the players to actually, you know, Role Play, but we know how that turned out. SWTOR is not going to be any different. A lot of people will play the game to get the best equipment or the most richs and wont role play a bit. I think SWTOR will probably be a fun game and I will get it, but dont delude yourself into thinking that it is the first true MMORPG, that simply wont be the case. If your only defense for trolling or hatred is a stupid tag line, Then you should quit life. |
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6/18/09 11:53:04 PM#72
Originally posted by wootin
I would have said, 'my friends' that it means SWTOR is the diametric opposite of an MMORPG. You are forced to play not your own story but a story pre-chosen for you. That story is selected when you choose your character. That story does offer you a variety of choices but the choices, it seems, are only one of three kinds. GOOD, BAD and NEUTRAL. Those decisions do NOT CHANGE the story. They just take you through it. If you wish to leave the story, you can't. This is not a voyage of exploration into new landscapes and new varieties of experience - such as even a game like WoW is. Instead, fromn the details received so far, SWTOR is a game on rails where you can't leave the shuttle bus. |
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6/18/09 11:58:21 PM#73
Originally posted by hubertgrove
I would have said, 'my friends' that it means SWTOR is the diametric opposite of an MMORPG. You are forced to play not your own story but a story pre-chosen for you. That story is selected when you choose your character. That story does offer you a variety of choices but the choices, it seems, are only one of three kinds. GOOD, BAD and NEUTRAL. Those decisions do NOT CHANGE the story. They just take you through it. If you wish to leave the story, you can't. This is not a voyage of exploration into new landscapes and new varieties of experience - such as even a game like WoW is. Instead, fromn the details received so far, SWTOR is a game on rails where you can't leave the shuttle bus. And of course complete lack of story like every mmo out there allows you to make up whatever story for your character you want... but who cares??? You didn't get to experience this story... if you want to make your own story go write a book. |
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6/19/09 12:01:12 AM#74
Don't care if it is 1/2 a mmo, 3/4ths of a mmo, 1/3 rd of a mmo , the bottom line is we're all going to play it. |
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6/19/09 12:08:09 AM#75
Originally posted by NecroHelium And of course complete lack of story like every mmo out there allows you to make up whatever story for your character you want... but who cares??? You didn't get to experience this story... if you want to make your own story go write a book.
Well, that's the whole issue about the game, isn't it? Is Bioware's idea of making 'Story' the centre of their game a slam-dunk win for TOR? Or a gigantic misjudgement that means limited playability?
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