Originally posted by Narc1

Originally posted by Moirae

I don't respect WoW and I won't ever respect it. Its mmo's light and its crap. Not to mention the behavior of most of the players is despicable.I'll never play it again. Most people eventually leave the game for better games. The endless raiding is aggravating to say the best.

 

The only thing WoW did was take features of all the other games, dumb them down, and put them into the game.

 

If they make this game yet another carbon copy of WoW with different graphics, like every other new game recently released, I'm going to be severely pissed.

 

PLEASE NO MORE WOW, DEVS. PLEASE GIVE US SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

 

 that last statement is SO ironic because WoW revitalized a game genre that was stank with repetition comprising of grinding, grinding and more grinding. You basically want another EQ where content sucks, leveling sucks, and PvP is just ganking. If TOR comes out like that itll sell well for a month then itll be DROPPED. Trust that.

No. I want a story, I want something unique. I loath PvP with a passion that cannot be overstated and I don't mind levelling.

Stop twisting what I said. Its childish.

Originally posted by BarCrow

OP has opened my eyes on one point......or , more like, focused them on a distant memory.. I think graphics do help realism...to a point..but it is absolutely true that realistic animations assist greatly  and can make ...initially sub-par graphics...seem more advanced. I think of  2 games I played on the Commodore 64...."Karateka" and "Prince of Persia"....both done by the same company..I believe. Those games ...for the time (late 80's)...had very realistic animations....all movements seem very "human" and seamless. I think those animations still hold up today.(..and these were side view  2D games). It's kind of sad that many of the animations in contemporary  games...especially MMOs....are not  as realistic as a game made about 20 years ago. I know the mechanics of a SPG and an MMO  are different...but you'd think technology would have caught up at some point...and I think it has for some MMOS.( I think AoC animations aren't too shabby). I hope TOR has this touch....it really does add to the immersion of a game...imo.

I did want to bring attention to this post, thank you BarCrow.  I preach animation often... and this game has potential in that category.

This is a positive response to the thread in general.

/discuss

Originally posted by Warsong

Pros: WoW did bring allot of attention to MMO's overall.

Cons: WoW loving carebear goons may infect SWTOR.

 

Ya...I said it...

Developers are more likely to welcome and cater to the "carebears", who enjoy a game, rather than you, who are trying to create hostility.

Ya I said it, good luck finding a game that welcomes you.

Originally posted by Khaunshar

WoW changed the MMORPG genre from a genre that was rather specific to a more mass-audience-suitable form. Unfortunately, in the process, it managed to change perception of the genre and its profitability to such a degree that the way MMORPGs were designed and played changed with it.

Blizzard didnt reinvent the wheel, nope. Its just the effect of WoWs big success that changed a genre in a way that alienated its original playerbase, diluted it with tons of players who liked parts of it, but disliked others, and suddenly the entire industry preferably caters to this imaginary playerbase, and produces one bust after another.

I can respect Blizzard for making WoW. I dont have to like the consequences of it. It DID pretty much wipe out the original MMORPG genre, replacing it with something else, and up to now, this niche didnt reform. Its just one fail after the other.

This is a solid view, nostalgic but true.

The million dollar question is, why?  Take this story.  There was once a wild life in a small island in the Pacific.  Magellan arrived there during his trip and docked.  A few mouses landed.

The mouse grew, they ate up every wildlife, or infest them with a new disease, and kill them all.  Soon the mouse driven new ecology took over and the old inhabitants died.  Actually the humans died too.

Now WoW did quite something similar.  They round at least 10s of millions of people to try out a form of entertainment that once holds only 300k players.  Basically they swarmed the genre and replaced the old 300k market with a 12m sized market.  The old player group becomes either assimilated or alienated and sidelined (they called it niche, elite, hardcore, non dumped down, whatever).  Market economics.

I remember the times when supermarket chains displaced street corner groceries.

As for one failed after another, its only less than 10 years since the WoW phenomena.  10 years of trial and error is a very short duration for creativity to work out another success.  Give it time.

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Khaunshar

WoW changed the MMORPG genre from a genre that was rather specific to a more mass-audience-suitable form. Unfortunately, in the process, it managed to change perception of the genre and its profitability to such a degree that the way MMORPGs were designed and played changed with it.

Blizzard didnt reinvent the wheel, nope. Its just the effect of WoWs big success that changed a genre in a way that alienated its original playerbase, diluted it with tons of players who liked parts of it, but disliked others, and suddenly the entire industry preferably caters to this imaginary playerbase, and produces one bust after another.

I can respect Blizzard for making WoW. I dont have to like the consequences of it. It DID pretty much wipe out the original MMORPG genre, replacing it with something else, and up to now, this niche didnt reform. Its just one fail after the other.

 

This is a solid view, nostalgic but true.

The million dollar question is, why?  Take this story.  There was once a wild life in a small island in the Pacific.  Magellan arrived there during his trip and docked.  A few mouses landed.

The mouse grew, they ate up every wildlife, or infest them with a new disease, and kill them all.  Soon the mouse driven new ecology took over and the old inhabitants died.  Actually the humans died too.

Now WoW did quite something similar.  They round at least 10s of millions of people to try out a form of entertainment that once holds only 300k players.  Basically they swarmed the genre and replaced the old 300k market with a 12m sized market.  The old player group becomes either assimilated or alienated and sidelined (they called it niche, elite, hardcore, non dumped down, whatever).  Market economics.

I remember the times when supermarket chains displaced street corner groceries.

As for one failed after another, its only less than 10 years since the WoW phenomena.  10 years of trial and error is a very short duration for creativity to work out another success.  Give it time.

I remember this time as well, also the same can be said for most other stores vs the Walmart chain...and yet there are still some small shops out there that have success because they may offer things (usually things of better quality or more convenient). Take a food store near my location in Dallas that offers a different variety of fine foods from all over the world...it's packed every day...costs more but there are those in the MMO community that would pay more for MORE!...imagine that.

Originally posted by Kordac

My MMO life started with Final Fantasy xi, I got my Paladin upto level54 before I got bored of standing in Jeuno LFG for an hour each night before I could play. I tried EQ2 on launch and while some parts impressed me I simply could not get it to run right on my PC. One minute it was great then it stuttered like mad.

I got a RunePriest to rank40 RR 55 in WAR and tried out AOC as well but for the most part I played WoW from Euro release to just after WOTLK was released. WoW wasn't my first MMO or the only MMO I've played.

I want to ask what is so simple about WoW compared to other MMOS? I agree the crafting is simple, even though the way you actually crafted is much the same in any other MMO I've played. gather the mats and hit "create" and cross your fingers. One thing I did like about EQ 2 was the crafting.

I'm not trolling I'd like to know what people mean when they say WOW is simple as none of the other games I've played have been any if much more complex.

I would ask a different question, what do I want from my games.  Does it need be complex, or hi tech, or what?

I play for fun.  Kill time, whatever.  Compexity for the sake of complexity don't do me no good.  Complexity as in the form of making it fun will help.  Take an example.

Its complex to disasemble a bike and reassemble it (for me), its no fun for me.  Its complex to optimise in WoW, balancing quest routes, harvesting routes, leveling pace, mob kills, acheivements, within the stretch of just a couple hours available per session.  That is not rocky science, but that little bit of complexity allows planning in game, adaptation (when running into unexpected heavy incidence of competing harvestors) and so on.

Not many games has so many dimensions and facets as WoW.  That aspect I enjoy.  The lacking in focus however is the cost of the many dimensional development.  DAoC has one main dimension, RvR.  That makes the game immensely more focused, but then more easily bored and burnt out.  That, is how I compare and evaluate, and choose games.

Originally posted by Warsong

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Khaunshar

WoW changed the MMORPG genre from a genre that was rather specific to a more mass-audience-suitable form. Unfortunately, in the process, it managed to change perception of the genre and its profitability to such a degree that the way MMORPGs were designed and played changed with it.

Blizzard didnt reinvent the wheel, nope. Its just the effect of WoWs big success that changed a genre in a way that alienated its original playerbase, diluted it with tons of players who liked parts of it, but disliked others, and suddenly the entire industry preferably caters to this imaginary playerbase, and produces one bust after another.

I can respect Blizzard for making WoW. I dont have to like the consequences of it. It DID pretty much wipe out the original MMORPG genre, replacing it with something else, and up to now, this niche didnt reform. Its just one fail after the other.

 

This is a solid view, nostalgic but true.

The million dollar question is, why?  Take this story.  There was once a wild life in a small island in the Pacific.  Magellan arrived there during his trip and docked.  A few mouses landed.

The mouse grew, they ate up every wildlife, or infest them with a new disease, and kill them all.  Soon the mouse driven new ecology took over and the old inhabitants died.  Actually the humans died too.

Now WoW did quite something similar.  They round at least 10s of millions of people to try out a form of entertainment that once holds only 300k players.  Basically they swarmed the genre and replaced the old 300k market with a 12m sized market.  The old player group becomes either assimilated or alienated and sidelined (they called it niche, elite, hardcore, non dumped down, whatever).  Market economics.

I remember the times when supermarket chains displaced street corner groceries.

As for one failed after another, its only less than 10 years since the WoW phenomena.  10 years of trial and error is a very short duration for creativity to work out another success.  Give it time.

I remember this time as well, also the same can be said for most other stores vs the Walmart chain...and yet there are still some small shops out there that have success because they may offer things (usually things of better quality or more convenient). Take a food store near my location in Dallas that offers a different variety of fine foods from all over the world...it's packed every day...costs more but there are those in the MMO community that would pay more for MORE!...imagine that.

Aye, for the sake of keeping creativity alive, do not sponsor Walmart or the big chains.  That is my rule.

When on trip, my clients make the hotel books for me at their expenses, they paid.  Even then, I make it a rule eating in the neighborhood small shops or even the street vendors.  They cannot die out, or we will lose a lot of creative minds at work.

Yes yes yes, food quality, game quality above all,  I do not need to play a game that is popular, I only want a game I want to play.  Heck I still enjoy playing tetris.

I have to laugh a bit when I hear that "X" game has all d-bags and they have an immature player base. When will people realize that the d-bags will be in SW:TOR and every other game that has mass appeal. It is because 1/4 of the population is retarded. I have proof ( just read these or any game forums for 45 seconds) 

Yes I said it!

...retarded

Originally posted by Khaunshar

WoW changed the MMORPG genre from a genre that was rather specific to a more mass-audience-suitable form. Unfortunately, in the process, it managed to change perception of the genre and its profitability to such a degree that the way MMORPGs were designed and played changed with it.

Blizzard didnt reinvent the wheel, nope. Its just the effect of WoWs big success that changed a genre in a way that alienated its original playerbase, diluted it with tons of players who liked parts of it, but disliked others, and suddenly the entire industry preferably caters to this imaginary playerbase, and produces one bust after another.

I can respect Blizzard for making WoW. I dont have to like the consequences of it. It DID pretty much wipe out the original MMORPG genre, replacing it with something else, and up to now, this niche didnt reform. Its just one fail after the other.

Yes the face of MMORPG gaming is changing, WoW is a major catalyst in the process. Sure i respect WoW, even though a very much dislike Blizzard for their rutheless whoring of WoW to squeeze every last dollar out of this genre, and I dont think they are done, not by a long-shot. The old days of MMORPG gaming are forever gone and i already miss them. But you cant blame WoW, some game would have come along and done the same thing, its inevitable, nothing stays the same forever.

Mann! WoW ain't my daddy...he didn't raise me!

My mom raised me.....f wow....f wow to hell and back......

lol

My god there is a lot of stupid in this thread.  Who honestly gives a flying fuck what anyone  respects or not? If you like a game play it, if  not don't; anything else is mindless bullshit.

Respect WoW like WoW respected all mmorpgs before it.

The WoW design gave most of the new developers a starting point for a better and more successful mmo. It looks low budget but if you stay long enough you'll notice the smallest details that'll make you go "aaaah that's what is missing from my other mmo." Few of the reasons why WoW players keep coming back and the driving point for other mmo developers trying to bring down the dumbed giant.

Everything from game world details to product execution to consumer cost made it very appealing to the masses opening more doors and expanding the mmo market. Top mainstream titles would never gamble a multimillion brand if they think it's a weak market. Thank WoW for opening that door.

The "Hell Community" of WoW started from the older mmo player base. You were there long before the rest of the million subscribers. The collision of Battle.net PvP e-thuggery and classic Rulebook Role Player nerdrage started the fire. Don't blame the new community.