First off, I'll say this. When it comes to combat, everyone has to be equal. Either it's all FPV or 3rd Person, no mix. First Person has the advantage of quicker reaction times and more accuracy, but can't see behind very easily. Imagine the kind of advantage someone in 3PV would have fighting someone in FPV.

If MO was smart, they'd try to please both crowds. When not in combat, have the option for 3rd Person available (meaning, if you wanted to, you could walk around in FPV the entire time. However, you might be at a disadvantage, because someone sneaking up on you who would be detectable in 3PV would be difficult to see in FPV). When in combat, have it force the camera into FPV.

If you want to be in FPV all the time, you'd better make sure you can turn around very quickly. That's just my idea, though. This isn't an FPS where, if you die, you just respawn and it doesn't matter. Those ninja one-shot kills are okay. In an MMO, though, even if it isn't technically a one-shot attack, surprise can be an overwhelmingly unfair advantage. To those who enjoy FPV, I say have fun. I'm interested to see how MO turns out, for better or for worse, because of it.

Originally posted by Amaranthar

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Yamota

I didn't say it wont work, I am sure it will work. What I was saying is that the majority of MMORPGS do not have forced FPV (or forced TPV) but it rather lets you as a player chose which kind of view point you want to use and it is a fact that most MMORPG gamers use TPV.

That being said I think forced FPV will discourage alot of people from playing the game. People, like me, who otherwise want to play in a FFA PvP sandbox MMORPG. And that is, or should be, MOs selling point. Not forced FPV.

 

Yes you see but they are also selling that with their design the FPV will fit alot better than 3PV, while I understand again, what you are saying as a personal preference we havent played the game, so we might try it at some point login and think "ohh yeah it does feel better with these mechanics only have FPV" or "damn, I wish there was 3PV, it feels really shit just FPV" we dont know.

 

I think you people are fooling yourselves as much as the Darkfall harcore real-men-of-video did over open PvP.

Most gamers have experienced FPV with the options in other games, and didn't like it. That's why they always say they like 3rd person. The "experience" you guys are talking about won't make up for it, it's a far lesser "experience" to the vast majority.

 

Im a skeptic myself, and I do agree there is a big chance of failure all together, but if they make it right it wont be FPV that will break this game I can tell you.

You speak about other games I have played hundreds of games with FPV view only that I enjoy and even games with FPV and 3PV options and I only used FPV cause it was so much better (eg. Fallout 3 and Oblivion, 3PV is just horrid) , most gamers (gamers as in people who play games) do not play MMORPGs as MMORPGs  gamers are only a fraction of the gamer population, and there are ALOT of FPV only games that are successfull so I do not see where you draw your conclusions from other than your own opinion.

Rav3n2, it's like I said, you folks are only fooling yourselves. You think all these MMORPG gamers didn't buy those FPV games too? They did. They know what they want. And for a MMORPG where you play all the time, it makes a huge difference.

But it's OK. No matter what you and I say, Mortal Online is going to do what they think is best. Which will no doubt be in line with your thinking.

And if you wonder why, at this stage when they are talking beta, there are very few posts either here or on the MO site, well, maybe you won't be wondering much longer, in the grander scheme of things.

Ya just can't make that horse drink the water, ya know?

Originally posted by Amaranthar

Rav3n2, it's like I said, you folks are only fooling yourselves. You think all these MMORPG gamers didn't buy those FPV games too? They did. They know what they want. And for a MMORPG where you play all the time, it makes a huge difference.

But it's OK. No matter what you and I say, Mortal Online is going to do what they think is best. Which will no doubt be in line with your thinking.

And if you wonder why, at this stage when they are talking beta, there are very few posts either here or on the MO site, well, maybe you won't be wondering much longer, in the grander scheme of things.

Ya just can't make that horse drink the water, ya know?

Just like i said, I will try it, if i dont like it then i wont play it, I like the design of MO and if they meet the goals they set themselves to achieve then it wont be FPV that will break it for me, even if its not "so well designed", I think if this game is going to fail FPV is not whats going to break it there are alot more important things that can break this game, the 1 thing im really worried is this becoming another Counter strike like gankfest like DF, if it does well i just wont play it, but like most of the people here, I have been through too many releases and disapointments to be upset about a bad one.

Originally posted by rav3n2

Just like i said, I will try it, if i dont like it then i wont play it, I like the design of MO and if they meet the goals they set themselves to achieve then it wont be FPV that will break it for me, even if its not "so well designed", I think if this game is going to fail FPV is not whats going to break it there are alot more important things that can break this game, the 1 thing im really worried is this becoming another Counter strike like gankfest like DF, if it does well i just wont play it, but like most of the people here, I have been through too many releases and disapointments to be upset about a bad one.

Well, the stat loss thing looks to me like the very way I've always said (and some others too) that it needs to be. What it does is punish the PKers. It puts the onus on them instead of the other players. As a result, PKing will go way down. At the same time, it has just enough clearance in it to allow players to go after jerks who are trying to grief them in other ways, such as loot stealing or messing up player events. You just can't do it too much, and you even might feel the need to "save" your allowance to kill for griefers giving you a hard time.

No, MO has a fantastic system for PvP. It allows for wars, for the occasional Roleplayer events, and even some highway robbery. It simply limits it to an acceptable low level. If anything, the 20 hours aren't long enough, but that's debatable.

It even includes stealing in it. I'd have to go through it with a fine toothed comb to be absolutely sure, but it does look like exactly the system some of us old timers ahve been calling for. I was dismayed, btw, by the one developer poll asking to reduce the penalties. That would be catastrophic, and lead right to Darkfall/Shadowbane.

Their general pans otherwise sound very good. But until you see it, it's hard to say how things are going to turn out. MO does look like a hell of a game. My biggest caution comes from two sides.

-One is that I've seen other games that said the same things, but turned out to be pretty bare in the cupboard as well as a twisted mockery of what they said they were building. "Sandbox" can be on a very wide spectrum. The biggest threat here is that the developers start trying to add too much direction for the players. This leads to that "gamey" feel that we players see as anti-sandbox.

-The other is that the developers start falling into the Darkfall trap, and thinking that players would actually play to defend themselves against grief. They will a little, but not to the extent that too much openness in PvP or stealing, etc., would challenge them with. These are after all, just games. And this includes building the game around FPV with stealth and such, like Darkfall, it just won't lead to a good experience for the masses.

That leaves the FPV, and that's something that many players will walk away from before they even get to know the full scope of the game. The good news is, if they fix it quickly and go to an option like other games have, if they recognize that it is indeed a problem.

You are absolutely right and I dont expect them to do it right the first time, but with their honesty about features and the fact that they have listened to the community they might (and there is a big might) listen to the community during the beta and shape the game and not make those same mistakes.

They haven't been listening as well as you might think. I saw their post "We are listening to you".

Then they locked my post on this very subject of FPV and PvP. Just as they locked many others. So they are only listening to those who basically agree with them. At least that's the way it looks.

I probably wouldn't play this game if they added TPV to it.

Originally posted by Amaranthar

They haven't been listening as well as you might think. I saw their post "We are listening to you".

Then they locked my post on this very subject of FPV and PvP. Just as they locked many others. So they are only listening to those who basically agree with them. At least that's the way it looks.

I'm sure it may seem that way to you but the truth is FPV is not open to discussion because it was a design descision and they have no intention whatsoever of changing it.

Originally posted by Balkin31

Originally posted by Amaranthar

They haven't been listening as well as you might think. I saw their post "We are listening to you".

Then they locked my post on this very subject of FPV and PvP. Just as they locked many others. So they are only listening to those who basically agree with them. At least that's the way it looks.

 

I'm sure it may seem that way to you but the truth is FPV is not open to discussion because it was a design descision and they have no intention whatsoever of changing it.

 

Well, it's their dollar, not mine.

Originally posted by Amaranthar

Originally posted by Balkin31

Originally posted by Amaranthar

They haven't been listening as well as you might think. I saw their post "We are listening to you".

Then they locked my post on this very subject of FPV and PvP. Just as they locked many others. So they are only listening to those who basically agree with them. At least that's the way it looks.

 

I'm sure it may seem that way to you but the truth is FPV is not open to discussion because it was a design descision and they have no intention whatsoever of changing it.

 

Well, it's their dollar, not mine.

This is the exact response I LOVE to see.     First devs cave to one feature, then another then another.    Before you know it the game is another mass produced "everyone has one item they want but nobody is actually passionate about" game.   

These devs have already stated they are going after a niche crowd.  If your not one of them, go play another MMO.  There are 300 of them out there.  I personally think the features of this game are perfect in theory and I just hope Joe Public and their Britney Spears and American Idol tastes don't ruin this for me. 

Does anyone know if it will be tunnel vision like in other games?

Or will it have peripherals so it is actually realistic.

This seems to have been discussed to death already, but here are my 2c. :P

When I'm in 3rd person view in any game, I tend to stare at my character 95% of the time and not really pay attention to the environment.  Some games the environment isn't all that pretty, but in others.. it just makes your jaw drop at how amazing it is.

So in games like Fallout 3 or Oblivion, I purposely limit myself to 1st person mode so I actually look around and gaze at the towering mountains, the ancient ruins, or the vast sea.

I'm confused here..

you think 3rd person point of view is more real?

Find me that logicbutton pls.

pvp 3rd person god mode I can see behind me and all around me yay my spirit floats above me at all times..

1st person the real deal .. all yOu QQ need to go back to wow.

Originally posted by tsunnu

I'm confused here..

 

you think 3rd person point of view is more real?

Find me that logicbutton pls.

pvp 3rd person god mode I can see behind me and all around me yay my spirit floats above me at all times..

 

1st person the real deal .. all yOu QQ need to go back to wow.

This has already been discussed in multiple posts here.  But I will answer your question.

Why some feel 3rd person is more realistic.

1.  In the real world we have a much wider viewing plane then in a FPV.  3rd person allows us a wider view on the playing field, akin to real life.  FPV hinders our viewing angle.

2.  In real life you can look down, see your hands, your body, you can turn your head without your whole body turning.  FPV does not allow you to do this, or not to the extent that we can in real life, anyway.  3rd person view allows a full view of your character.  While not being able to do that in real life it is more realistic because you can easily see your entire body in a split second in real life.  Except for your back, of course.

3.  3rd person view makes up for the "6th sense" that we have to detect when there is another presence close by in real life.  In FPV the only thing you can do is constantly spin around looking in all directions for any incoming enemies.

There are other reasons as well, but these are the main ones I could think of at this time.

Having said that, I would not change Mortal Online because that would change the whole game.

Edit: Some gamers share one opinion and others share the other opinion.  They are opinions, which means no one is wrong.  "1st person is the real deal" is not entirely accurate, but you have your opinion.  Saying anyone who thinks differently to go back to WoW is pretty childish.

Sadly MMOs in the later days have become dress up games. If you compare it to real life people are compeating about what cars they drive and who has the biggest Flat screen TV.

So for many watching your Avatar in 3rd person is the most imoportant thing, as that is the way they mesure progression lol.

I play EvE and many people state the reason they dont like it is becuase they cant see an actual avatar in 3rd person. And watching a ship dosent do it for them... hahah

These are the kinds of people that have turned the MMO genre into what it is today a grind for shiny new gear. Gone are the days when new games where made as Sandboxes where the main focus was to fight other people.

Mortal is going for the Old school MMOer and frankly the 3rd person crowd is gona cry thier little hearts out the first time they get defeated and loos thier stuff. So the best thing is for them to just stay away...

No 3rd person for me = no reason to play. If I wanted a FPS I would reinstall quake. I never have liked first person view and I have been playing games since pong.

Only childish thing I see is this pseudo 6th sense god mode. TTL Hardcore pvp has no place for that.

Wowtasm 3rd person 6th sense super awesome see around corners through walls wow mode.

Go back to wow.    I do think.

K.I.S.S.

if it has no 3rd person... it has to make up in other areas.

good example was dark messiah - finished game a few times and never had 'omg this would be awesome in 3rd person' thought EVER come to my head. that means the game was done right.

"These are the kinds of people that have turned the MMO genre into what it is today a grind for shiny new gear."

yeah... the whole 'im max level, with best armor and weapons in the game' syndrome is what destroys mmos.

Originally posted by tsunnu

Only childish thing I see is this pseudo 6th sense god mode. TTL Hardcore pvp has no place for that.

Wowtasm 3rd person 6th sense super awesome see around corners through walls wow mode.

 

Go back to wow.    I do think.

 

K.I.S.S.

 

 

Yeah, because WoW was the first MMORPG to have 3rd person view. Not like UO, pre trammel, and AC DT (the first good PvP FFA sandbox MMORPGS) had them. Right?

I think you are confusing FPS with MMORPGs and you seem to be confused generally because you think 1st person view, with aprox 70 degrees visibility, is realistic. Where as in RL you have a total view span of over 200 degrees. It is called peripheral view... If you didn't skip school to smoke all that weed then maybe you should have known that.

Some people's eyeballs are actually more elevated from their sockets and they can almost see behind them.

Good. First person view only is gonna be sweet. If you don't like it, go back to LOTRO.

Originally posted by Samuraisword

Good. First person view only is gonna be sweet. If you don't like it, go back to LOTRO.

Yeah because LOTRO is the only MMORPG that has 3rd person view.

No 3rd person? You sir just raised my interest in this game to Level 2. Ding!

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by tsunnu

Only childish thing I see is this pseudo 6th sense god mode. TTL Hardcore pvp has no place for that.

Wowtasm 3rd person 6th sense super awesome see around corners through walls wow mode.

 

Go back to wow.    I do think.

 

K.I.S.S.

 

 

 

Yeah, because WoW was the first MMORPG to have 3rd person view. Not like UO, pre trammel, and AC DT (the first good PvP FFA sandbox MMORPGS) had them. Right?

I think you are confusing FPS with MMORPGs and you seem to be confused generally because you think 1st person view, with aprox 70 degrees visibility, is realistic. Where as in RL you have a total view span of over 200 degrees. It is called peripheral view... If you didn't skip school to smoke all that weed then maybe you should have known that.

I think you are the one confused my friend. MMORPG means "massively multiplayer online role playing game". It is a very open genre and first person view fits it like any other view.

As for what is most realistic, well, that is pretty obvious to me. If you want to argue that peripheral vision equals third person view, then I don't even see the point in discussing it with you. You could argue that both viewpoints are unrealistic, but I'm not sure that you can argue that third person view is more realistic.

Anyway, I do not fully understand why you are so opposed to the first person view. There are many games out there that have used a FPV and used it very very well.