I've read and watched many interviews and post by Bioware, and this game is nothing more then KOTOR 3 + internet..  The storyline choice bologna mixed in with online interaction makes things impossible, or illogical..  I"ve read and heard how one starting quest is "killing the captain" or not to kill him, and how those type of choices determine your character as you progress thru what I call a single player RPG.. Let me give you a simple example..  I killed the captain, however my friend did not early on in the game.. I get to a point where a relative or friend of the captain seeks REVENGE upon me.. Does this mean my friend is unable to help me?  Afterall, he's friendly with the capt's friends and family.. whereas I'm hated..  If my friend helps me in the fight, he then should ALSO become hated by the friends and family as well..  SO MUCH about making choices early on?  OR will my confrontation with the family be instanced where my friend cant' come with me.. OR.. even worse.. my friend does help me, yet takes NO faction hit in killing the capt's friend or family..  Meaning that Bioware conviently IGNORES the storyline in sake of grouping with no recource..  Interesting ..

     Personally, I see this is nothing more then RENTING KoTOR 3 monthly to play multiple toons with a lil online mmo tossed in to keep you guessing if it's a mmo or not.. However I think I might re-label it as SWG 2.. Another Star Wars blunder where the game doesn't meet expectations of what the market wants..  I'm still trying to figure out how a person that was LEAD screw up at SOE-Austin (aka SWG)  got the Co-GM spot at Bioware.. I guess it's all about the almighty dollar.. Should we make a KoTOR 3 and charge $59.95 that can be played on the PC, Xbox and PS3?  or should we make the game a lil bigger, add in some mmo stuff (but not much) and charge the same $59.95 plus $14.95 a MONTH every month after.. hmmmmm Lets go with the extended money game.. LOL I suspect this game fails within 2 years after release, but who cares..

You might be right ... and you might be wrong.

Pretty much a failed topic however (since you're basically using definitive on a speculation of yours).

No doubt it will be different than a virtual world MMORPG, they've already stated that.

But it could possibly be a fun game.  Who cares how long you play it for, if you get 3 or 4 months of entertainment out of it, and move on, no big deal.

You don't have to 'live" in every game you play.

Damn, you kind of went off on a thought there and just kept going. How in the hell have you got anywhere near that amount of information from the peanuts we've been given. Besides which there are so many possible answers for the questions you posed how can you expect to come to any reasonable conclusion?

Originally posted by Rydeson

. Let me give you a simple example..  I killed the captain, however my friend did not early on in the game.. I get to a point where a relative or friend of the captain seeks REVENGE upon me.. Does this mean my friend is unable to help me?  Afterall, he's friendly with the capt's friends and family.. whereas I'm hated..  If my friend helps me in the fight, he then should ALSO become hated by the friends and family as well..  SO MUCH about making choices early on?  OR will my confrontation with the family be instanced where my friend cant' come with me.. OR.. even worse.. my friend does help me, yet takes NO faction hit in killing the capt's friend or family..  Meaning that Bioware conviently IGNORES the storyline in sake of grouping with no recource..  Interesting ..

    

The Captains family never seeks revenge. Now what?

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,

Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),

That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall

Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:

"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, "Ho! what have we here

So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear

This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take

The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:

"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.

"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he;

" 'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man

Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can

This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,

Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,

"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,

Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,

Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

Moral:

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,

Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,

And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has actually seen!

by John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887)

Until you've actually seen the game forming any opinions is silly.

     For some of you naysayers.. What I discribed with the "captain" quest is IN THE game.. It was one of the starting quest the smuggler class has in the beginning..  I believe it might of been gamespot that viewed this game footage during one of their interviews..  The quest gave you a choice.. kill or not kill the captain to get off the ship..  Rich Vogel talked briefly about the "killing the captain" quest during a recent E3 interview as well, using it to explain how choices can lead to future questlines.. It was Rich Vogel that used the example of a family member either seeking revenge or rewarding you for your choice later in the game..  SO.. As I was explaining..  How do quest like this effect gameplay if everyone is making different choices?   As I said.. Lets assume I killed the captain on Tues, but my friend didn't kill the captain when he played later that afternoon..  Does this mean we have a conflict of "timeline"? or is Bioware going to conviently lame excuse their way out of that problem?

     I would love to hear more concrete statements how Bioware is going to overcome grouping problems from the start..  WoW has similar situations, but they are a very minor part of the game..  In WoW if you want to kill the NPC's in Booty Bay to get your bloodsail admiral title, great.. but you'll do it alone if your friends or guildies are "friendly" with the Booty Bay faction..  However, like I said, this a very minor part and temporary as well..  WoW gives people the option to change rep if they so choose to.. Bioware has already stated that any choices made are PERMANENT, and can't be reversed..  Yeah.. i see problems with this storyline already.. HELL.. Even in the movies people switched factions.. Even Vader did in the end.. I'm glad Vaders alliance to the Sith wasnt' permanent or Luke would of died.. LOL .. Take note of that Bioware..

There is very little information to state anything like that, we are just assuming one thing or another. The part that decisions can't be undone probably means that, if you kill the captain, the captain will be dead and perhaps someone will go after you or someone will hate you for that, that can’t be undone which I personally find very cool.

I am sure there is a way to redeem yourself if you want to come back from the dark side, I am sure it wont be easy but it might be doable, as in WoW (since you are comparing it) is like being aldor and decide later to go scryer…
Just one question, what parameters in your opinion make a game a mmo?

Phasing.

Originally posted by Rydeson

     I've read and watched many interviews and post by Bioware, and this game is nothing more then KOTOR 3 + internet..  The storyline choice bologna mixed in with online interaction makes things impossible, or illogical..  I"ve read and heard how one starting quest is "killing the captain" or not to kill him, and how those type of choices determine your character as you progress thru what I call a single player RPG.. Let me give you a simple example..  I killed the captain, however my friend did not early on in the game.. I get to a point where a relative or friend of the captain seeks REVENGE upon me.. Does this mean my friend is unable to help me?  Afterall, he's friendly with the capt's friends and family.. whereas I'm hated..  If my friend helps me in the fight, he then should ALSO become hated by the friends and family as well..  SO MUCH about making choices early on?  OR will my confrontation with the family be instanced where my friend cant' come with me.. OR.. even worse.. my friend does help me, yet takes NO faction hit in killing the capt's friend or family..  Meaning that Bioware conviently IGNORES the storyline in sake of grouping with no recource..  Interesting ..

     Personally, I see this is nothing more then RENTING KoTOR 3 monthly to play multiple toons with a lil online mmo tossed in to keep you guessing if it's a mmo or not.. However I think I might re-label it as SWG 2.. Another Star Wars blunder where the game doesn't meet expectations of what the market wants..  I'm still trying to figure out how a person that was LEAD screw up at SOE-Austin (aka SWG)  got the Co-GM spot at Bioware.. I guess it's all about the almighty dollar.. Should we make a KoTOR 3 and charge $59.95 that can be played on the PC, Xbox and PS3?  or should we make the game a lil bigger, add in some mmo stuff (but not much) and charge the same $59.95 plus $14.95 a MONTH every month after.. hmmmmm Lets go with the extended money game.. LOL I suspect this game fails within 2 years after release, but who cares..

I think your wrong about that, but we will wait and see. I think its going to be an mmo and not some singlemultiplayer online like you said. There is to much money on stake for me to be wrong, which mean its going to be a full mmorpg othervise there is no point for them to tell everyone stuff like "first full vocal mmorpg" for instance. And lots of other stuff that I read about the MMO KOTOR.

Label it when you play it. Wise words, wise words.

Diablo in the past was flamed for not being a true RPG. That didn't stop it from being a fun game and perhaps create a gender of its own. I worry more about SW:TOR being a fun game to play. Whether it fits a gender or not is not really important for me.

Originally posted by Xasapis

You might be right ... and you might be wrong.

Pretty much a failed topic however (since you're basically using definitive on a speculation of yours).

Agreed
 

Many allready stated.

This should be just KOTOR 3. Singleplayer game.

Instead renting (subscribing) to play singleplayer game , in MMO guise

Still, since its made by Bioware. Its likely to be good.

Although they have been slipping ever since they joined EA

It will be a MMO.

Is this a MMO?

Yes, Star Wars: The Old Republic is a MMO, or “massively multiplayer online game”. Star Wars: The Old Republic will allow thousands of players to explore, adventure, and fight in a single game session.

Source: TOR's Website

And:

The MMO Gamer: So then, what happens after the main storyline has ended for those other people you mentioned, who may not even be interested in the story in the first place?

I assume you don’t just tell them, “Well, that’s it! Reroll a Smuggler, play the game again, get the new story!”

Daniel Erickson: Absolutely not. One of the things that we’ve always talked about, because the end-game is incredibly important to a lot of MMO players, if that’s your game, great. That’s going to be there waiting for you.

Source: MMOGamer Interview

It'll just be an MMO with a more enjoyable (to RPG fans) story-based backbone to the levelling process.

Isn't it great to know that the OP here has used his infinite wisdom to define what an MMO is for the rest of us.  Now it's time for us all to fall in line!

Rydeson you dont have nearly enough information to form an eductaed opion...hell you dont even have enough to back up your personal opinion yet. Once the game is out we will all see exactly what they have been talking about, till than, why not put your energies towards something more....constructive...

Originally posted by Rydeson

     For some of you naysayers.. What I discribed with the "captain" quest is IN THE game.. It was one of the starting quest the smuggler class has in the beginning.. 

Wrong, it was a Sith Empire instanced quest with Bounty Hunter and Sith. The decision made within the quest line determined how the rest of the quest played out and we still do not know the full impact of the decisions the characters made during this quest.  One possibility could be the if the Captain is not killed, then he could give the characters additional quests later on, but no one knows at this point because Bioware has not released enough detailed information to drawn a well informed conclusion.

As others have stated, Phasing is the way to handle different people making different choices.

Originally posted by Rydeson

...and charge the same $59.95 plus $14.95 a MONTH every month after

I highly doubt they'll sell there online game for the same price as a retail singleplayer experience... most companies when selling an online game it ranges anywhere from $20-30 not even close to that. Oher than that your entire post was speculation and not very well constructed... you claim the game will fail 2-3 years after release yet the games not even out yet giving you no oppertunity to try it and think otherwise. Other than that what kind of line to finish it off is but who cares... obviously you do. You would of never posted this topic about this game unless deep down you really did and are just in denial.

Does it really matter if we only get a few months enjoyment out of the game? In the end as long as we enjoy it then it was money well spent and still cheaper than taking the wife out.

 You are severly wrong imo.

The MMO market is such a volatile market for any invester to dump millions of dollars into something that won't be received well. Yes it's a bioware/star wars title and it will sell no matter what, but Bioware is looking for that long term garunteed monthly cash to open up revenue streams for future developments.  They are not looking for a one hit wonder single playing online title claiming to be a MMO. Don't forget they have the experience of Lucas, after helping Sony with SWG.

It will be great, you will eat your words, and you'll like it!

Originally posted by Rydeson

I killed the captain, however my friend did not early on in the game.. I get to a point where a relative or friend of the captain seeks REVENGE upon me.. Does this mean my friend is unable to help me?  Afterall, he's friendly with the capt's friends and family.. whereas I'm hated..  If my friend helps me in the fight, he then should ALSO become hated by the friends and family as well..  SO MUCH about making choices early on?  OR will my confrontation with the family be instanced where my friend cant' come with me.. OR.. even worse.. my friend does help me, yet takes NO faction hit in killing the capt's friend or family..  Meaning that Bioware conviently IGNORES the storyline in sake of grouping with no recource..  Interesting ..

I can't see why a confrontation like that couldn't be perfectly logical. The NPC could simply state that he is only there for you and whomever of your friends that also killed the captain. He could even ask those of your friends who spared the captain to help him against you or at least to 'not get in his way'. There must be a hundred different solutions so this type of scenario and I highly doubt BW haven't thoroughly considered such a fundamental part of the game play.

Part of the question comes down to simple semantics. It was stated that choosing A or B (to kill or not) would affect the outcome of your character progress. This doesn't necessarily mean that if I kill the captain the second day that I play the game that it will influence a quest I get after 6 months. It may just mean in a single series of quests. If this is the case, I think it’s brilliant.

Take for example Task Forces in CoH/CoV. A series of quests at separate locations that you must perform as a group. The Task Forces are completely storyline based time table progression. Complete task A, go see contact A, travel to location B, complete task B, return to contact A, rinse and repeat. Weather you do the TF once or a dozen times a week, the start locations on some of the missions may change, but it’s the same mission.

If these choices are implemented in the course of a Task Force-Esq. mission set it opens up possibilities and playability of the missions. It wouldn't be the same old rinse and repeat game play. It allows for some variance which I see as a wonderful thing.

But really, as it’s been said a dozen times, we don’t know. It could be a brilliant edition to MMO mechanics, or it could be a massive annoyance. I guess we’ll find out once the game arrives, or at the very least hits beta.

And a side note about the whole continuity issues mentioned. How many times do people run the same missions and kill the same bosses in near EVERY MMO? When it comes to things like this, continuity doesn’t even come into play.

What's an MMO?

This thread is pretty fail.

This has all the aspects of an mmo whilst focusing on a quality story-line or so they say.  So in other words it's adding the >RPG< back into the MMO.  Kind of odd that once they add a storyline back into games it's considerred less than the sum of the parts.