Originally posted by ArcAngel3

WoW had a good release and then steadily built on a strong foundation.  They haven't done anything drastic to alienate most of their customers, they listen to consumer feedback (more than most).  The expansions are polished and enjoyable.  When they do screw-up, and people point this out, they tend to listen and do something helpful about it.

I don't recall Blizzard having a very good release at all with WoW.  Subscription issues, server problems, infrastructure quirks and more.  I even remember being glad I didn't work for their customer support for the first few months after release.  They even still have some issues with patches within the first day or two of it's release (often technical due to load)

For example, see (just to list a few):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft (lists some release problems)
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/world-of-warcraft/582134p1.html (20 of 88 servers down)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/wow-patch-beset-with-problems (2009 patch problems)
http://news.cnet.com/World-of-Warcraft-battles-server-problems/2100-1043_3-6063990.html (2006 patch problems)

Part of the problem is that after so many years a game like WoW is very well established, has most of the kinks worked out and is pretty stable.  Most new releases are in the same state as Wow (or better/worse) was at release, it's just that people expect a full, complete, and stable game nowadays.  I'm not saying it's unreasonable to ask; just that the standard has been raised a lot higher than it was early 2000's.  I don't want to pay $15 per month to play a beta release either.

Originally posted by Strap

Originally posted by socrates656

There is alot of ignorance on these forums now a days it seems. People prejudging somthing they havin't even played before, or even saying that this game is going to blow blizzards WoW's sales out of the water... how long have you people been playing MMO's for?

I have been beta testing alot of MMO's for about 9 years now, and this year I had the oppurtunity to beta test some MMO's that are suppost to be comming out at the end of this year, and most of them are just terrible in my opinion. Things being copied and done over and over again, Crafting systems being ripped off from WoW and calling it their own .ect .ect

I hope this game is good, I really do. God knows how many terrible MMO's that have been comming out in the last 4 years. The game looks "nice", but you can't really judge it until you have played it. You guys should of learned that when Age of Conan came out and still you havin't learned anything. Anyone can put a couple of nice screenshots of a game and say it's new a revolutionary and people believe it, and eat it up, EVERYTIME. This is just as ignorant as when a politition comes out and says he's going to cut taxes and people vote for him, because they believe everything he is saying.

How stupid can you people be? Are you seriously that dumb?

 

People are extremely stupid, including myself on occasion. :) However, in this case I'm plain excited and the preview here, as well as the Deceived movie sure hit the right buttons for me. You know why? Because I am 38 and it is Star Wars!!!! I was what, 8 years old when the first movie came out, and there had just been nothing like it. For many people my age, Star Wars is just one of those formative pillars of culture that (for us) is hardwired and just hearing the music is enough to make me feel like a kid again!

So, of course it is exciting for many to see this game develop and it DOES seem on solid ground with Bioware etc. I was damn impressed by the Deceived video... just an excellent mix of lore and fast-paced action of very high quality.

You really cannot blame us for getting just a bit caught up... and hey, that's part of the enjoyment of something, the looking forward to bit, and the getting excited about it bit. So it is not stupidity, even if it does end in dissapointment for some.

 

 

I agree with you, and see what your saying my friend. I'm 29 years old myself, and I am looking forward to this game as well. I am a big starwars fan just like you. But I also know to not get too caught up in the propaganda of these advertisments, because you may be very dissapointed if you find out it is somthing differn't then what you had originally perceived. I don't get caught up in all the hype anymore like I used too because I learned from it. Bioware has made some great games in the past, but with this game they have a big challange and I don't think people really understand how much of a challange they really have on their hands. It is a very big responsobility, and I hope Bioware can pull it off. They have some really talented people on their development team, and I respect them from their past games, but at the same time I can't assume that this game is going to be just as great as their previous games. This is their first MMO they have worked on. To prejudge this game is complete ignorance, because anyone can make a game look great when it comes to advertisments.

Everyone that was actually able to see the game in action at E3 has had nothing but great things to say, so those are the only opinions that matter to me. While the general public may not have any gameplay footage to see right now, the people that were at E3 did and they were all impressed with it. This type of game isn't going to appeal to everyone, but what game does? All I know is that from everything that I've heard from people that actually know what they're talking about, this is a game that I'm really looking forward to. If you like the WoW/EQ style of MMORPG's then there are plenty of those out there on the market already. I'm not a fan of them. I want an MMORPG with more depth and detail and Bioware is at least trying to create that type of game. Maybe they'll succeed and maybe they won't but I give them a lot of credit for trying to stand out and do something unique instead of being yet another clone.

Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

I have never heard anyone in all my years of MMOGs (playing since before UO) say the reason they canceled there sub was there wasnt enough Single player like storys.  I mean thats why people are tired of WoW, cause its not like a single player game.

 

I left FFXI most definitely because of the lack of single player content post level 15 and the required forced grouping.

I left LOTRO at level 35 because my quest list was nothing but group quests (they have since tried to address this).

I left EQ2 at the end of beta because of its lack of solo content, and the required forced grouping.

Watching the E3 2009 show via xplay and watching the much anticipated Bioware's upcomming MMO SW:TOR was awesome but was sadly dispointed when they gave the impression it will be geared toward those who are not part of the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community.

A major problem that Bioware needs to fix or address as soon as possible or they going to lose a major portion of the Star Wars Fan Based Community. 

I myself am part of the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community and myself and many of my friends will find it hard to play in a MMO that does not have any type of subtitles in place of voice.

Sad reality is that lot of MMO developers totally ignores or discriminate against the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community thinking they would not be interested in playing a MMO, what these same devs do not realize that a small percentage of the communtity are either retired or war vets who lost their hearing and love playing MMO's but tend to cancel thier accounts when they find out that MMO CSR's are totally hostile toward the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community.

Originally posted by Thalarius

Watching the E3 2009 show via xplay and watching the much anticipated Bioware's upcomming MMO SW:TOR was awesome but was sadly dispointed when they gave the impression it will be geared toward those who are not part of the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community.

A major problem that Bioware needs to fix or address as soon as possible or they going to lose a major portion of the Star Wars Fan Based Community. 

I myself am part of the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community and myself and many of my friends will find it hard to play in a MMO that does not have any type of subtitles in place of voice.

Sad reality is that lot of MMO developers totally ignores or discriminate against the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community thinking they would not be interested in playing a MMO, what these same devs do not realize that a small percentage of the communtity are either retired or war vets who lost their hearing and love playing MMO's but tend to cancel thier accounts when they find out that MMO CSR's are totally hostile toward the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community.

 

As with Mass Effect, you can bet there will be toggle for displaying subtitles.

Originally posted by hades302

Originally posted by Thalarius

Watching the E3 2009 show via xplay and watching the much anticipated Bioware's upcomming MMO SW:TOR was awesome but was sadly dispointed when they gave the impression it will be geared toward those who are not part of the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community.

A major problem that Bioware needs to fix or address as soon as possible or they going to lose a major portion of the Star Wars Fan Based Community. 

I myself am part of the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community and myself and many of my friends will find it hard to play in a MMO that does not have any type of subtitles in place of voice.

Sad reality is that lot of MMO developers totally ignores or discriminate against the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community thinking they would not be interested in playing a MMO, what these same devs do not realize that a small percentage of the communtity are either retired or war vets who lost their hearing and love playing MMO's but tend to cancel thier accounts when they find out that MMO CSR's are totally hostile toward the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community.

 

 

As with Mass Effect, you can bet there will be toggle for displaying subtitles.

It's already been confirmed.

"The Old Republic looks and feels far more like a single player RPG than an MMO."

This is were I completely lost any small hope I had for this game.

I couldnt care less about a (well-made) single player game with some sort of online features attached to it!

/facepalm

/rant over

Originally posted by eric_w66

Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

I have never heard anyone in all my years of MMOGs (playing since before UO) say the reason they canceled there sub was there wasnt enough Single player like storys.  I mean thats why people are tired of WoW, cause its not like a single player game.

 

 

I left FFXI most definitely because of the lack of single player content post level 15 and the required forced grouping.

I left LOTRO at level 35 because my quest list was nothing but group quests (they have since tried to address this).

I left EQ2 at the end of beta because of its lack of solo content, and the required forced grouping.

 

I like to add some more games in my experience that I quit because of forced grouping...

City of Villians, while it was a fun and kick ass game, beautiful graphics with lots of bells and whistles, I had to quit because to even level at a remotely normal pace, you had to group up.  This was painful because it took so long to get a group together...and not only that but it took even longer to find a good group and keep them together long enough to get a worthwhile amount of experience from.  Some nights it was impossible to find poeple to group with and I was basically paying to ask others to group with me so I could play a game I was paying for.

I quit WoW when I first played it back when BC first came out because, same thing, back then nobody was was my level, everyone was out leveling to 70 while I was just level 10.  Back then after a certain point most of my quest log was group quests and I sucked too much to attempt to solo them so I quit but I did go back later when they upped the XP per quests or lowered XP to level and soloing was easy since grouped quests were no longer needed to gain levels to move onto a new zone.

I'm a fan of solo play, I set my own play schedule, I can stop when I feel like it and not worry about pissing off my group.  I do however, enjoy group quests, like in WoW, 5-man instances, they can be fun with a good group.  I especially like other players, especially in a Star Wars setting, because it gives my Bounty Hunter a target to shoot at

Originally posted by m240gulf

Originally posted by eric_w66

Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

I have never heard anyone in all my years of MMOGs (playing since before UO) say the reason they canceled there sub was there wasnt enough Single player like storys.  I mean thats why people are tired of WoW, cause its not like a single player game.

 

 

I left FFXI most definitely because of the lack of single player content post level 15 and the required forced grouping.

I left LOTRO at level 35 because my quest list was nothing but group quests (they have since tried to address this).

I left EQ2 at the end of beta because of its lack of solo content, and the required forced grouping.

 

 

I like to add some more games in my experience that I quit because of forced grouping...

 

City of Villians, while it was a fun and kick ass game, beautiful graphics with lots of bells and whistles, I had to quit because to even level at a remotely normal pace, you had to group up.  This was painful because it took so long to get a group together...and not only that but it took even longer to find a good group and keep them together long enough to get a worthwhile amount of experience from.  Some nights it was impossible to find poeple to group with and I was basically paying to ask others to group with me so I could play a game I was paying for.

I quit WoW when I first played it back when BC first came out because, same thing, back then nobody was was my level, everyone was out leveling to 70 while I was just level 10.  Back then after a certain point most of my quest log was group quests and I sucked too much to attempt to solo them so I quit but I did go back later when they upped the XP per quests or lowered XP to level and soloing was easy since grouped quests were no longer needed to gain levels to move onto a new zone.

 

I'm a fan of solo play, I set my own play schedule, I can stop when I feel like it and not worry about pissing off my group.  I do however, enjoy group quests, like in WoW, 5-man instances, they can be fun with a good group.  I especially like other players, especially in a Star Wars setting, because it gives my Bounty Hunter a target to shoot at

Umm... CoX and WoW are EXTREMELY solo-friendly. In fact, it's one of the gripes that the people who "need" a team yell about. Hell, the reason why it's so hard to get a team in CoX is because most people are soloing! [Or with their guilds] It's one of the best reasons to play a Mastermind. You have your own team on-hand, you never have to worry about LFG. Trust me, I solo 99% when I play games. Like you said, I don't intend to pay money to play a game at some stranger's pace.
 

Originally posted by Thalarius

Watching the E3 2009 show via xplay and watching the much anticipated Bioware's upcomming MMO SW:TOR was awesome but was sadly dispointed when they gave the impression it will be geared toward those who are not part of the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community.

A major problem that Bioware needs to fix or address as soon as possible or they going to lose a major portion of the Star Wars Fan Based Community. 

I myself am part of the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community and myself and many of my friends will find it hard to play in a MMO that does not have any type of subtitles in place of voice.

Sad reality is that lot of MMO developers totally ignores or discriminate against the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community thinking they would not be interested in playing a MMO, what these same devs do not realize that a small percentage of the communtity are either retired or war vets who lost their hearing and love playing MMO's but tend to cancel thier accounts when they find out that MMO CSR's are totally hostile toward the Deaf/Hearing-impaired community.

 

I don't think any company wants to alienate ANYONE from playing their games, after all, they're in it for money. So it isn't like they're actively trying to force people with disabilities out. Sometimes there's ignorance of the issues people have (color blindness is another big one).
 

But in regards to the voice acting complaint, I can see how it might rankle to not be able to get the full effect of the game as it was intended, but I'll tell you what usually happens in any game that has a lot of voice acting (and I'm hardly alone):

It gets turned OFF.

I'd MUCH rather NOT hear the same voice actors say the same things over and over again driving me insane. Same thing happens to the "music" in these games. I might listen to it for a little while, but in the end, off it goes. Not to mention in a game where people will group with others using things like teamspeak or ventrilo, you don't want a sound activated mic to trigger off of every mob's speech, lol, you'd irritate everyone in your group/raid really quick.

I tend to play all my MMO's with ALL sounds even turned down for that reason. Plus I can hear what's going on in my "real" world, especially when I'm babysitting a bunch of rowdy nephews. Or I can listen to my own music.

I wonder how they going to implement the concept of all the classes being utilized in raids for example and balance them for PvP. Is smuggler going to hide behind rocks while shooting at the beast or some PvP opponent? Or trooper will be roughly called a "nuker" in comparison to other MMOs and Jedi will become a tank again like in old SWG.

To be honest I am sick of all these templates, all these "paths" of progress they give us. Sick and tired. Been there done that, how many more times, come on. Can't someone finally make a game that is really fun and that is not following footsteps of every other game we've played and hated for the similar setup of redundant and boring game play, where you're squeezed into a choice between to be a tank or a nuker.

Or all the devs are like cave men, repeating each other like brainless idiots, excuse me for being too harsh. Can someone finally take a responsibility and risk out with a new game play mechanics where we don't need to count our levels and measure each others pen*ses based on what color of rarity it is? All these MMOs have become so DUMB its not even funny. No matter what, every damn game makes it all about loot and its rarity. ENOUGH ALREADY! MAKE SOMETHING THAT DESERVES TO STICK WITH!

I hold my fingers crossed for SWToR. I am already excited about all the promises they make and the concept of role play being worked on and payed much attention to. I just hope they deliver it. And don't create a hype to lure players in and get stuck on a loot rampage again. SWG was a great game. NGE killed the fun for many players by forcing them into a stupid template choice. I hope that SWToR will have some variety and customization choices and not dumbed down to only button mashing. I really hope that every class will be very unique and interesting on its own. When I think about them saying Raiding and PvP I am kinda getting concerned. Because when it gets to PvP and raiding thats what destroys the unique characteristcs of potentially interesting classes.

Originally posted by Sanguinia

Umm... CoX and WoW are EXTREMELY solo-friendly. In fact, it's one of the gripes that the people who "need" a team yell about. Hell, the reason why it's so hard to get a team in CoX is because most people are soloing! [Or with their guilds] It's one of the best reasons to play a Mastermind. You have your own team on-hand, you never have to worry about LFG. Trust me, I solo 99% when I play games. Like you said, I don't intend to pay money to play a game at some stranger's pace.
 

Yes, you are correct, CoX and WoW are solo-friendly....kind of imo.  Back in earlier version of WoW, groups made leveling faster and solo was mind numbing to me because of no self heals exepct for pots which were expensive or food which dragged the game on.  However, new WoW is way way easier to solo, groups are after thoughts when leveling now.

CoX was solo friendly but it would take you eons to max your level and you could not run instances, the 5-mans, on your own but those you want to be in a group anyways for the fun.  I'm just saying about CoX is that you need a group to level at a reasonable rate or you'd take many months (us non-MMs) to solo your way to max level.

Originally posted by m240gulf

Originally posted by Sanguinia

Umm... CoX and WoW are EXTREMELY solo-friendly. In fact, it's one of the gripes that the people who "need" a team yell about. Hell, the reason why it's so hard to get a team in CoX is because most people are soloing! [Or with their guilds] It's one of the best reasons to play a Mastermind. You have your own team on-hand, you never have to worry about LFG. Trust me, I solo 99% when I play games. Like you said, I don't intend to pay money to play a game at some stranger's pace.
 

 

Yes, you are correct, CoX and WoW are solo-friendly....kind of imo.  Back in earlier version of WoW, groups made leveling faster and solo was mind numbing to me because of no self heals exepct for pots which were expensive or food which dragged the game on.  However, new WoW is way way easier to solo, groups are after thoughts when leveling now.

CoX was solo friendly but it would take you eons to max your level and you could not run instances, the 5-mans, on your own but those you want to be in a group anyways for the fun.  I'm just saying about CoX is that you need a group to level at a reasonable rate or you'd take many months (us non-MMs) to solo your way to max level.

Hey, they have to balance everything for solo and team play. That's how it is. If you want "speed" then you'll need a group. But if you want to solo, the option is there. As long as you realize that the people with reliable groups will end up at max level faster than you. I, however, could care less about leveling speed. It can be done. That's all I care about. I'll find a way to win on my own. The only time I have really needless deaths are when I group. And that's aside from all the other irritating pit-falls of grouping.

What odd to me is people whining about it being storybased as if the story was being written from anyone other than Bioware. Bioware has the uncanny ability of making a linear single player RPG -feel- nonlinear by dialog and choices. Which is why even when all we knew was that Bioware was making an MMO, I was stoked. You're dealing with some of the most consistantly talented writers in the industry,  so it's nice to see the company coming up front and saying "We're building this game centered around our strengths and that will make it significantly different from any other in the market in the same sense that our single player games are significantly different from any other in the market."

Asking anything else out of Bioware's first MMO attempt is just ridiculous. And if you've not had the pleasure of playing through a Bioware game, I suggest at least Knights of the Old Republic to get caught up on the story.

The problem i see is that a typical single-player RPG has maybe 20 hours of gameplay. While a typical MMO may be played for hundreds of hours total.

That's why i'm very skeptical about the whole "it's fully voiced" and "more like a single-player game" content.

How much of that type of content will they have available really ? At what rate will they be able to add new equal quality content to justify a subscription ?

I mean it's very possible that one month from release everyone finishes the super-awesome main storyline and is sitting bored on their asses with nothing to do, growing nostalgic for the "collect 20 boar intestines" type-quests of other games.