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Hey, I don't like to look at a bucket of puke, but there are some people who think a bucket of puke is beautiful. Of course these "artists" say that their work is "niche" and only appeals to those who "understand".
We get a lot of talk about niche games in MMO world these days, and it usually seems to come from incompetent developers who are incapable of delivering a quality product. Darkfall is the most recent and most classic example, although I don't believe their game was originally intended to be "niche" if you look at it's development history. BUT, that being said, isn't "niche game" just a phrase used to describe a game that is too shitty to have much appeal?
I never see a really awesome game described as "niche game", only low quality games with major problems and that few people find acceptable quality are called "niche games".
Isn't "niche game" just a code word for "shitty game nobody wants to play"? That's my word. What do you think? The one and only. |
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I disagree because of Ultima. Its considered niche, but is an incredibly deep, quality game. It wasn't always considered niche, the market and the playerbase changed around it while it remained essentially the same game its always been. EVE is also considered niche, and I doubt anyone would call it a bucket of crap. The definition is subjective, but if you take to mean 'less than 500k players' (or whatever number) that doesn't automatically mean its a junk game. |
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I foresee this thread generating much thoughtful, flame-free discussion. 
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kasta
 Advanced Member
Joined: 5/30/03
Never try to teach a pig to sing,it wastes your time and annoys the pig. |
I see niche game used to describe almost any game that doesn't have 11.5+ million subscribers. LOTRO, Eve, DDO, AoC, CoX, ect have all been called niche games. *shrug* |
Originally posted by bonds0097
Agreed. A mod should step in and shut it down before it starts. |
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That's fine, but both those games have actually had a shit-ton of players. I don't think it is accurate to call Ultima Online or EVE as niche games, compared to WoW they might be, but it is like comparing a rock band that sells a million records to the Beatles, ok a million records is small compared to what the Beatles sold, but a million records sold means a band is quite popular!
People say, [in my experience], people say that EVE is a niche game in order to try to make their shitty game nobody is interested in sound like it might be the same as EVE. But EVE is not really a niche game, it is a widely respected and admired game in the industry, with a large and dedicated fan base. The one and only. |
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Niche just describes a game that it takes a differnt type of person to play, imo. Not everyone can just pick up EvE and play it, not everyone can pick up Ryzom and play it, but give a 12 year old a wow account, and he'll have it figured out in a matter of hours. If anyone can play it, it's not niche, if it takes a special person (In the case of darkfall, someone who likes FPS combat with RPG elements) to play it and like it then it's niche. That's just my take on it. -TORMENT GAMING COMMUNITY- |
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Well people pay for shit food (hamburgers), shit drinks (coke), shit books (harry potter), shit games (WoW) and let the shit hit the fan. A lot less people go for quality and for niche and awsome game like DarkFall is. -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- Everyone who logs into NGE destroys a bit of the SW Universe. No SWG Pre-Cu, No money to the $OE suckers , simple and fair. DON't agree to $OE 's EULA. They change the gameplay without respect your investement. "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE) |
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to most of us it might be shitty, but its good at what it does and has fans for it. EVE is a good example. Many find it too hard, too boring, but the game does not has much fault (does it?) in its concept. Take Tekken - its a fighting arcade style game. If most people don't like fightin games, that won't make Tekken a bad game. But adversely for mmos, the game gotta have 'massive' people playing it to be an mmo..even if its a niche game. |
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Well I think there is a lot of middle ground between a "niche" game that specifically DOES NOT appeal to most gamers, and a game that has near universal appeal.
The issue is clarified, imo, if we think about single player games. Most single player games are designed to be fun for anyone who takes the time to learn to play the game. They are not designed to be boring to most people. A lot of people might not like to play a RPG like Morrowind for example, but that does not make it a niche game, the game is designed to be fun for whoever plays it, but the reason why many people don't play it is not because they would hate the game or something it is because they would RATHER play different kinds of games than an RPG.
Same thing with sports games. Although a game like NHL 2009 might not appeal to me, if I took the time to play it and understand the game it would probably be fun, the game is not designed to be NOT FUN for most people, it is just that many people would rather play a different kind of game.
If I think about a classic definition of a niche game, it would be something like tournament mah-jong. Some people really love to play mah-jong, most people are just "meh" about it, tournament mah-jong is a kind of game that appeals to a particular niche crowd and not anyone else. This is an accurate use of the term "niche game" imo.
For an MMO like Darkfall, I think the word "niche" only gets pulled out when the game is not good enough and it is an attempt to spin the marketing so that players will feel like they are "special" or "elite" for liking this particular game which it is obvious most players would not enjoy playing..... The one and only. |
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That's an accurate description of a niche game IMO, but how is that any different than Darkfall? I'll use your exact words, but switch out the game: "If I think about a classic definition of a niche game, it would be something like Darkfall. Some people really love to play Darkfall, most people are just "meh" about it, Darkfall is a kind of game that appeals to a particular niche crowd and not anyone else." IMO, niche != shitty Current: Ryzom, DFO |
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Originally posted by Nizur
Whereas mainstream has "shitty" all over it. Mainstream means mass appeal, lowest common denominator, mediocrity. The proper question for a topic is does mainstream = shitty ?
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- Everyone who logs into NGE destroys a bit of the SW Universe. No SWG Pre-Cu, No money to the $OE suckers , simple and fair. DON't agree to $OE 's EULA. They change the gameplay without respect your investement. "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE) |
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Originally posted by DarthRaiden
Not sure you can put quality and darkfall in the same sentence. |
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Originally posted by oddjobs74
Not sure you can put quality and darkfall in the same sentence.
Its your problem not to be sure. I can put it in the same sentence no prob like you can see in my post. -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- Everyone who logs into NGE destroys a bit of the SW Universe. No SWG Pre-Cu, No money to the $OE suckers , simple and fair. DON't agree to $OE 's EULA. They change the gameplay without respect your investement. "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE) |
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Originally posted by DarthRaiden
Its your problem not to be sure. I can put it in the same sentence no prob like you can see in my post.
Just saying it dosen't make sense.. Where do you get quality from? |
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Its so funny that people hate something so much, they cant stand it when people actually enjoy the game. Face it lol, some people really like DF, nothing you say will change that. This thread is obvious troll and will be locked soon
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Originally posted by SuperCrap
Your correct. I've never really seen a niche game... none that are proposed in the comming years is niche. Darkfall ended up being described that way, because it very quickly in the last years morphed into and oddball type of game. Even EVE didn't call itself "niche", they were building a new genra' or MMO style. EVE's developers were open to the player base and said if things don't work out one way, we can change them. So people stuck with them and helped them make a great game. "Niche" is just a catch-phrase that signals to other that fanbois are already on the spinwagon ..!
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niche = niche shitty = shitty Therefore, Darkfall is special due to being multi-categorical. It's both niche AND shitty. |
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Originally posted by oddjobs74
Not sure you can put quality and darkfall in the same sentence.
Well if you include "severe lack of" it works pretty well. If you take a look at his examples though you'll see the common thread. He hates anything that's popular regardless of quality or niche or awesome because Darkfall is none of those. Well it is an awesome train wreck. "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." ~Greys Law |
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Respit
 Elite Member
Joined: 11/05/08
“It's not easy to cut through a human head with a hacksaw.” |
Originally posted by eyeswideopen Ahhh!! It's a TwoFer!! 601 |
Uh, what? That just goes without saying, man. But anyways... back on topic please. Did you guys ever hear of a top quality production game that was described as niche except by fanboys trying to justify a game of theirs that most people think is crap. We were talking about EVE, for example. I honestly have only heard EVE described as "niche" by fanboys of games like Darkfall and Dark&Light who are trying to make their game look better by analogizing it to EVE. But EVE is not really designed as a niche game, it is a game that appeals to many different kinds of players and has a large following and an even larger ripple effect throughout the MMO world, because the game is well respected everywhere as a quality product. The one and only. |
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Well it appered to me that "shit" is a purely subject term. One is very superficial game, with a core-target ordiance of people of the age of 15 and under, with cartoonish graphics, and VERY simplistic gameplay (wow). The otherone is a game that looks like DnL 2.0, wierd way of controling, with some other serious issues (like subscriber limit)(darkfal). To other to other people they accualy look good. Ones man shit is another mans gold, i guess (uh mental picture)  Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.  Long live pc gaming, Viva la Steam, and and down with the Usurpers, down with the consoles |
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Originally posted by DarthRaiden
Whereas mainstream has "shitty" all over it. Mainstream means mass appeal, lowest common denominator, mediocrity. The proper question for a topic is does mainstream = shitty ? You just beat yourself with your own logic. Why is a game successful? Because it has mass appeal. Why does it have mass appeal? Because it has quality that satisfies those masses. Why do shitty games have small player base? Because it does not appeal to most players. Why does it not appeal to most people? Because its bad, and most people have higher standards to play a bad game. But some people will eat up anything, then turn around and call the mainstream game "shitty" to justify their choice. Newsflash, you do not need to justify your choice. If you enjoy playing a game that has 10% of promised features and has 50% less content then any mainstream game then good for you. But every time you try and defend your choice by dumping dirt on another game, you bring your destroyed and crappy game back into focus and force people to point at you and laugh at your crappy choice. The fact that you think your single choice is better then hundreds of other peoples' choices makes you a self-centered narcissist. My advice, grow up. The world does not revolve around you.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time. |
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no Originally posted by Cyborg99 |
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'Niche' is just another overused and bullsh*t word derived by morons who somehow managed to weed their way into important positions and wanted to make themselves look clever just like with words like 'next-generation' this is just simply another product of that. Darkfall isn't niche, no game is niche, we can't define what IS niche in this industry because its too early but we already have these said morons from other industries trying to create a standard when there isn't one yet, period. Frankly I think it would be dangerous to HAVE a standard in the games industry since a lot of the industry revolves around catering to certain personal preferences rather than churning out one really useful item which is what publishers don't seem to get. Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place. |
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