Originally posted by Calind0r

 

I want Aion to be like DAOC or EVE. And I'm not a PvPer, I'm a MMORPG player, I like both, but want them together, not separated. The earliest MMO's have all been PvP based and had it mixed in with other aspects of the game, its only now where games a separating them trying to accomodate both to get as much money as possible. But when you try to satisfy everyone, each individual thing is always going to be watered down and less of an experience as if it was on its own.

I along with millions of other people will enjoy Aion the way it is, if you want something else, there's a reason all games aren't the same, don't try to make them accomodate everyone, if you want to PvE in peace without any risks, then play a game based on that, don't go smack talking other games that don't have it, because there are plenty of people who like Aion's style of PvP/PvE just the way it is.

THIS

though some things with Aion, seem a bit watered down and noobish , the game at least has some direction and is sticking to its gun, I'm glad

Pretty sure you don't need to PvP at all if you don't want to. The gear you get from PvP would probably be more for PvP where it wouldn't matter as much for PvE but either way you don't have to PvP. Though it looks fun but you wont be forced to.

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

Originally posted by Calind0r

 

I want Aion to be like DAOC or EVE. And I'm not a PvPer, I'm a MMORPG player, I like both, but want them together, not separated. The earliest MMO's have all been PvP based and had it mixed in with other aspects of the game, its only now where games a separating them trying to accomodate both to get as much money as possible. But when you try to satisfy everyone, each individual thing is always going to be watered down and less of an experience as if it was on its own.

I along with millions of other people will enjoy Aion the way it is, if you want something else, there's a reason all games aren't the same, don't try to make them accomodate everyone, if you want to PvE in peace without any risks, then play a game based on that, don't go smack talking other games that don't have it, because there are plenty of people who like Aion's style of PvP/PvE just the way it is.

 

THIS

though some things with Aion, seem a bit watered down and noobish , the game at least has some direction and is sticking to its gun, I'm glad

*semi randomly chose this to quote*

One of the things I used to post in my "game development" opinion threads was... You make a game, you market the game you made and you support the game you made.

So I hope they stick to their guns.  I hope the game isn't changed on any amount of forum feedback etc... Regardless of what the outcome is.. they should support what they advertised.

I think it works out badly when you go in and don't get the market you thought you would.. then alienate the one you got by trying to recapture the one you lost.  It just doesn't work...

There are a couple choices NCSoft has made .. I think will haunt them.  Not because I don't agree with the choices...

I think we need to move beyond the personal perspective a bit on the forums.  NCSoft made a very specific "mission statement" about what they wanted to do with Aion... I think a few choices made conflict with the vision they stated.

I also think they are going to start diverting more dev time to deal with those choices.  In 1.2 they have already started to have to do this..

When I asked about rifts.. well I didn't ask about them by name... I didn't know about them.  I didn't ask about that to cause some forum flame war... I asked because I saw notes in 1.2 that didn't make sense to me.

Ultima Online is the MMO I have rated (always) as the best MMO I ever played... before trammel.. before statloss... murder system etc etc etc

Full loot... very small "safe areas" where bad things could still happen.  Thieves could actually steal from other players... knowing the game.. being prepared...   then again it wasn't a level game either.

I'm posting all this because I have a certain opinion on when you design.. market and sell a game.

I asked a question because I didn't understand something..

I didn't ask for rift removal nor did I intend to hijack a thread into "omg rifts wtf".

I think rifts do go against NCSoft's mission statement... but they are in the game and now they have to deal with the game they made... advertised.. and to be technical sold to me.  Its as simple as that in my opinion. (aka don't change the game and if you end up with less market than you wanted don't start screwing with the game I bought because you made this choice... and I certainly can't say I'd enjoy a level 50 attacking me at level 10 but they did make this choice .. so that's the deal imho).

To those that answered my earlier question.. I thank you again.

Saying that a pvp based game has "forced pvp" is like saying a first person shooter has "forced shooting" in it. I'm sure you could just absolutely refuse to use a gun, but your game play experience may suffer a little...

Oh and one things to add...there are 2 types of games that developers make. Ones that they love, and ones that they think everybody else will love. The latter is usually watered down, boring and EZ mode.

A prime example is Jumpgate Classic versus Jumpgate Evolution. JGC was based on pirating (you would have to get clan support just to do something like transport cargo around, because player pirates would attack you for the loot/cargo, and an epic fight would ensue), you had to manually dock at stations, or go through the gates (similar in style to EVE, EVE copied JG), so if someone was chasing/attacking you, if you were trying too hard to dock, you would hit the wall and blow up (yeah flying into something in space actually blew up your ship). PvP was based on open space, Getting a fleet of your clan, flying around with your mouse/joystick (making sure not to bump into each other ;)), finding some enemies, and having an epic BSG style fight (you aim your shots in that game, no targetting). Half the experience was just the epicness of being in some space armada flying across to meet your enemy.

Now the game has: closed PvP zones with no open loot or pirating, automatic docking/gate jumping, battlgrounds that reward you with gear and have respawn points and no bonus for actually winning the event, just + points, etc...They basically watered down the game in an attempt to copy WoW, ignoring their long lasting fans (selling out), not doing what they want, and just doing what they think will be the most successful. I hope, and it probably will happen, that JGE fails because of it.

The reason games are "watered down" is tp maximize profits.  The are tons of MMO's out there and very few will make much of a profit.  It's about business.  It's the same with television. Most of it is crap, but it is set to attract the majority. More and more gamers are NOT hardcore, but are intermediate/casual.  WoW and LOTRO do very well because they cater to this crowd quite well.  Creating PVE/PvP servers would be an excellent business decision for NCSoft.  The PvP servers would keep the game as is and the PvE servers would allow limited PvP in the Abyss (no rifts).  This would draw many more people to the game and would give the investors more of their money back. 

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by menowhite

Lol everyone here seems to forget there is a good part pve, with dungeons and raids. I haven't played, but how did you guys get the idea of only pvp end game? ;s

 

the only game that does pve right is Wow.  No other game even comes close.  And even WoW, with all the time, money, and polish... ends up being a boring wait between content patches.

Maybe Aion will come in a distance 2nd.  I dunno... I hope so.  But if your not participating in and enjoying the PvP aspect of the game, I have no doubt you should just stick w/ WoW and enjoy a more polished and complete product.

I can pretty much guarentee you that Aion won't compete w/ WoW on PvE alone though.

EQ2 is also PVE and and even better method that WoW.   Its called PVP and PVE servers that actually are what they say they are.   You want open PVP you roll there , you dont you get your relaxing PVE game.    Its old and proven to be popular even back to EQ1 [which is still alive partly due to this] 

As for those who point out that complaining about PVP on a PVP game is silly, well your right but as I pointed out earler NONE of the new games are PVE models anymore so a lot of players are being pushed out of game.  You may not care but notice the failures of resent new MMO games.   It takes lots and lots of accounts to support and get new stuff put into a game and if you bully people out of them the company wont get their cash.  

The problem with Aion is it was not apparent to a lot of the potential western buyers viewing the web site and info the company displayed that this was indeed a PVP centric game.   It looked like the PVP would be restricted to arena, dueling and the Abyss.  It even says in the FAQ that the battle rages in the Abyss where it describes what the PVPVE model means.     That left room for the asumption that one could enjoy PVE and engage in the PVP aspect by one's own choosing[or not] and still enjoy the beauty of the game and its models.    Aion has leaned heavily in its advertising on beauty not PVP.  

So this is not an argument on the validity of PVP or PVE but a complaint that this game did not seem to be up front what it is proving it self to be.   Due to this though you can expect more arguments on the PVE vs PVP issue from players who will be quite surprised the first time a rain of pvp comes though one of those rifts at them.

Originally posted by InSane103

Originally posted by nefermor

I just found out about the rifts my self and we may cancel our order. 

Agreed. After seeing the actions of players in the beta last weekend versus the people I've seen on the China servers, I'd have to agree that the American players are certainly of a different mindset (note: I am American).

Well I'm not going to cancel my order.  first off and I'm american (for now) ... ahem

I don't really agree or disagree with anyone in this thread.  PvE can be fun.. so can PvP.

My only issue is that NCSoft stated a goal.. and no they don't seem to understand the western market...  The paticular beta weekend issue mentioned was probably the ability to steal kills (dmg total is how loot is awarded not first engaged) and the rift system... may not make the extended market happy.

I guess we'll find out soon(tm).

I'm going to play the game.. and will deal with that.

The worry I have is.. the reaction by NCSoft if the market reacts like it has historicly.. as most devs that try to draw that market back in.. just make changes that piss off other people.  That's my only real concern (not rifts.. not being ganked.. no having someone steal my kill..) but if the "vast market" they wanted to reach in the west.. doesn't want those things.. how will they change the game.

From UO on through.. in those situations the changes are what killed games for me.

Originally posted by Calind0r

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Calind0r

The lines between the PvP and PvE is "the cancer killing /mmo/s". I wont even play a game if the PvP is secluded from the PvE. PvPers don't want just simple PvP, they want a PvP game where its integrated into everything, and you have meaningful fights for immediate and real rewards, like a raid boss, castle or even your questing spot....not impersonal fights against/with strangers for nothing other than +points you need to farm over a long period. We want a full PvP experience, if we wanted simple PvP and nothing else crammed down our throats, we wouldn't be playing a MMO.

 

Or, what you really want is the ability to gank other players by surprise, even if they are engaged in fighting other players, other mobs, or are 10 levels below you.

Because that's what your paragraph really says to me, otherwise you could have everything you asked for in a game like DAOC or even EVE.

PVE'er don't have to submit to your desire to prey on them, and they won't, they'll just stay away from your game.

 

Wait wut?

 

I want Aion to be like DAOC or EVE. And I'm not a PvPer, I'm a MMORPG player, I like both, but want them together, not separated. The earliest MMO's have all been PvP based and had it mixed in with other aspects of the game, its only now where games a separating them trying to accomodate both to get as much money as possible. But when you try to satisfy everyone, each individual thing is always going to be watered down and less of an experience as if it was on its own.

I along with millions of other people will enjoy Aion the way it is, if you want something else, there's a reason all games aren't the same, don't try to make them accomodate everyone, if you want to PvE in peace without any risks, then play a game based on that, don't go smack talking other games that don't have it, because there are plenty of people who like Aion's style of PvP/PvE just the way it is.

As someone else pointed out, I apparently mis-read your post.  Happens sometimes in the heat of a workday.

I think Aion's PVP system sounds pretty good actually, and does set this game apart from others, and am looking forward to trying it as well.

I just won't slam on folks for wanting a more pve based experience, and agree, they might need to seek it in a different game.

Originally posted by Kyleran

I just won't slam on folks for wanting a more pve based experience, and agree, they might need to seek it in a different game.

 

I don't think they will.  The odds of being caught by suprise by a rift are VERY low, unless they don't read the message.  Plus with 1.2 (odds are our starting version) there is a curse placed on high level players who rift to low level areas, making them rather easy to kill.  Plus in 1.2 there are new areas with bosses that in the writer's view "take tactics, and are not just tank 'n spank".

There isn't as much PvE content as other games that have been out for 5 years with 2 expansions..*cough* *cough* but I think there will still be plenty to keep people happy on both sides of the fence.

IMO for PvP and PvE to work, they have to be intigrated together ala EVE and DAoC, which at least at this stage, Aion seems to do very well.

You definitely don't have to Force PvP in Aion if you die by PvP you don't lose XP.

I have to admit, my main concern is that some of the worst muppets from WoW (You know, the level 80s who like to flex an e-peen by camping STV for hours) will play this.

I enjoy PvP, I play EvE, WAR (well, not anymore, it was too boring) and have played DAOC.

There is however, a difference between PvP and griefing (I often find the ones who grief are the ones who think duels prove some sort of thing in pvp as well).

It is the sort of person who thinks the latter is pvp and spends all their time doing that that I would rather avoid :) Hopefully they will be thin on the ground in Aion.

There is a system in place to stop ppl from just going to eacthores lands low level or not and kill forever with no consequence, but after a bit you get debuffs that prevent you from using rifts, then you get a debuff that prevents you from being rezzed, then I think you get some stat losses and when you die the persona and everyone around them gains a buff, this seems a pretty good mechanic to stop ppl from just griefing lower levels.

Originally posted by rav3n2

There is a system in place to stop ppl from just going to eacthores lands low level or not and kill forever with no consequence, but after a bit you get debuffs that prevent you from using rifts, then you get a debuff that prevents you from being rezzed, then I think you get some stat losses and when you die the persona and everyone around them gains a buff, this seems a pretty good mechanic to stop ppl from just griefing lower levels.

Boo!! Stop using the actual in-game system to refute my complaining about getting ganked by level 50s!

/sarcasm

Originally posted by rav3n2

There is a system in place to stop ppl from just going to eacthores lands low level or not and kill forever with no consequence, but after a bit you get debuffs that prevent you from using rifts, then you get a debuff that prevents you from being rezzed, then I think you get some stat losses and when you die the persona and everyone around them gains a buff, this seems a pretty good mechanic to stop ppl from just griefing lower levels.

That seems funky, looking forward to it.

I am happy to be a carebear, but I am a carebear with big spiky claws and sharp pointy teeth too!

I just dont like people who think it is fun to camp lowbies, hopefully this system will be a way to prevent it.

They tried to prevent it in aoc, but ended up with the low levels zerging high levels who couldnt fight back, so it swung the other way...hopefully this system will work :)  (I do have to admit to blasting the odd chicken out of existence in WAR though....)

I dont completely hate gankers, if my boyfriend hadnt ganked me for weeks, I would not have met him :p

That last bit of personal info was hilarious ...

Sorry to be rude but those that canel preorder because of this are morons.

I am playing Caion on and have been ganken maybe twice. Often I could escape. Mostly you can spend many hours out on the field without ever meeting someone of the opposing faction but in any case they don't stay at one spot because they know it will get them killed so they are always on the move so basicly it wont stop you from doing your quests. Plus you do not lose items or xp if you die by them...

You have to have a very unstable personality if you let something so small effect you...

Once again: It's not a gankfest and you will NOT get spawncamped or stopped from walking out of town or doing your quests.

Go back to WoW (sorry I had to say it).

Originally posted by Forumfall

Sorry to be rude but those that canel preorder because of this are morons.

I am playing Caion on and have been ganken maybe twice. Often I could escape. Mostly you can spend many hours out on the field without ever meeting someone of the opposing faction but in any case they don't stay at one spot because they know it will get them killed so they are always on the move so basicly it wont stop you from doing your quests. Plus you do not lose items or xp if you die by them...

You have to have a very unstable personality if you let something so small effect you...

Once again: It's not a gankfest and you will NOT get spawncamped or stopped from walking out of town or doing your quests.

Go back to WoW (sorry I had to say it).

haha agreed

I'm not going to bash people for not wanting to get ganked. By way of rifts, though, think of it this way: Suppose a rift were to open near your hunting ground and, indeed, the enemy faction happens to jump through it. If they are a bunch of equal level players (as rifts apparently open into equal lvl areas) you can't just assume that you're going to be the victim. I can pretty much bet you that you'll find an equal number of players on your own faction that are looking for a good skirmish just as the rift jumpers are. This is basically RvR afterall. This leaves you with a couple options. You could run while the people on your side are busy holding their attention or you could jump in and help them fend off the invaders, increasing the chance of success and quite possibly getting a little fun out of the situation. You never know.

As far as the abyss is concerned, I'd like to think that the same applies there as well. Again, it is basically RvR. If people of your faction are in the abyss with you, I'm pretty sure most of them will be gunning for PvP. Even if you arent in a legion or even in a party, it's not like they would just leave you for the wolves if they happened to be right next to you. Quite the opposite, actually. They would make a b-line straight for the enemy player/s in hopes to score some abyss points. Strength in numbers applies to solo players too sometimes.

I'm not sure if this is correct but I guess aion will be sort of wow's alliance vs horde pvp. I don't like mostly pvp more when there is like exp loss and worse armor drop but anyways I prefer it if it's lke alliance vs hord sort of pvp then your walking/flying then out of a sudden someone from same faction pks you.

At least you know if your "horde" and see an "alliance" = enemy. That's what I think ;D

Pretty much the same concept. Elyos vs. Asmodian. Well, technically Elyos vs. Asmodian vs. Balaur, lol.

Still good if it's like that you won't be getting backstabed from your same race xD

Originally posted by grunt187

Join or make a guild so you have friends, nothing more

satisfying than PK-ing an ass hat with your friends,or comming to the aid

of a lower level player being ganked,who knows you could even start a anti-gank guild that hunts gankers or even accepts contracts for killing gankers. IMO the possibilites of killing gankers would give me hours of fun

You know why some people wont? Because they dont look at it like they do a PVE mob, they don't want to see it as part of the game.

Me, I'm all about PVP, I'm all about beating the snot out of some a$$hat ganker...these are the ones I hunt down and slay over and over and over. But to me it's just as much of the game as anything and by far more appealing to fighting any PVE mob ever. The smarter they are the more I like it...if that ganker can kill me even once then I want more and more...I rarely find a challenge in a good  PVP game and almost never challenged by PVE mobs. Was I always like this?? Nope, took some time...time spent not running from PVP, time spent not running from PVP games, time spent not running from a$$hat gankers.

And now a$$hat gankers run from me or log out or die, and if they want to bring friends I got plenty of those as well.

PS. I will be for hire in AION if your having ganker problems and lucky enough to be on the same server.

How is this different than say, a PVP server in WOW?

Honestly those are full of areas that require questing and leveling in areas where u risk pvp.

I dont mind the overworld having contested areas where one risks pvp.

If u dont like PVP there are plenty of carebear games on the market,  and those of us who like PVP, i mean really like it, dont want it to be 'consensual only' i want a game where the world has the risk of other players fighting you.

Originally posted by KaitarBesh

I read somewhere that you will basically have to go into PVP free-for-all areas to level in this game. Meaning gankfest city. I've had one too many bad experiences with free-for-all PVP servers and forced PVP in games, I prefer the option to PVP when/if I feel like, not when/if the game devs say I have to in order to progress a character.

 

So was this misinformation or is this a forced PVP game?

I like how you say under your terms to pvp. Is that meaning you want to buff up and toggle on your pvp mode when you are ready and you can gank them lol?