LOL! 

Blizzard needs to just totally make WoW a newb game if thier planning to cater to its current playerbase.

Just give everyone a Max level character option at character creation since most of the playerbase wants that anyway.

This way they can instantly join in on the Instanced pvp, raid and daily grind within minutes of starting.

Hell, why have the grind? maybe they should just give everyone a high tiered set of armor also so everyone could just pvp all day.

Over the last few years it's become painfully obvious that the WoW playerbase doesn't actually like the MMO genre at all.

Over and over again they ask for things that remove wow from even being considered a MMO.

All MMOs that have mounts lets you have them immediately. Why is it when WoW requires you to be level 20 people call it dumbing down?

Was EQ dumbed down when they brought mounts into the game long before WoW was released? You could be a level 1 with a mount in EQ in 2003.

Exactly...they pussified WoW because the players all complain that its either "too hard" or they are just plain lazy to have to work for a mount. the game is just turning into more of a joke everyday.

Do i get the hundreds of gold i spent on journeyman riding back?

Originally posted by gamerman98

Exactly...they pussified WoW because the players all complain that its either "too hard" or they are just plain lazy to have to work for a mount. the game is just turning into more of a joke everyday.

What is the problem here?  Vanilla wow as the primary focus of achieving was over years ago.  It is a nice place to level up in, but the focus of the game in on its second expansion pack.  This is the type of change that doesn't discourage new blood from joining the game where other mmos fail to make these types of needed changes.  It is not about being to hard, but rather about remaining viable and removing annoyance.  Getting a mount used to be an accomplishement back when there were tons of people running around in the same area.  That time has passed however and mounts are just a convenience now.

Why do you think other games have such a hard time attracting new players?  Part of that reason is they keep piling barriers on top of other barriers to the point to which the games become more chore than enjoyment. They don't think how it will affect a new players experience.  Does a new player really want to solo 80-90 levels by themself and then have to grind 1,500 alternate advancement points just so they can catch up to their friends and the rest of the games community? 

It isn't like having a mount a few levels earlier makes the game idiot proof. 

I totally misunderstood the title and am now disappointed with the changes. I thought Blizzard was going to finally start let me mounting those dancing night elf women I see in Stormwind.
 

I don't understand the hostility towards this change.  People are talking like this is the end of the world on something.  This change isn't even worth a blink.

Thanks for the update but i wouldnt call any of those changes "hefty".

As far as all the whiners crying about this further dumbing down or making the game easier, there is a reason they have 11m subs. They didnt make this to be a niche game. They wanted it to appeal to as many people as possible, from pre teen to the retired and they have succeeded.

If you want to camp some mob for 18+ hours, killing placeholders and hoping he drops his "rare", there are games you can play for that. If you want to spend hours traveling around trying to find a place to grind exp, there are games for that too. If you want to mindlessly kill mobs that offer no challenge for weeks on end to gain faction so you can then craft cultural stuff or be able to buy/sell crap, there are games for that as well.

Originally posted by Roin

I don't understand the hostility towards this change.  People are talking like this is the end of the world on something.  This change isn't even worth a blink.

The hostility is only coming from the usual Wow trolls and haters. They don't even play the game and just hang around,  frustrated by the fact XFIRE shows a climb in market share of Wow (it s even over 60% these last days).

On the official forums and with the actual players of Wow the measures are very greatly welcomed.

They assure that all alts and new players just have a much cleaner way to the end game of lvl 68 to 80 and meet the new Lich King content and patches.

It isn't a big deal : you are just moving a little faster in the world and assuring everyone can join the ride in to WotLK and patch 3.2 .... which will bring new content again (the new BG is again a 40 men Raid content btw).

http://www.wow.com/2009/06/12/isle-of-conquest-details-released/

Blizzard is on the way to become Emperor instead of King and the guys above don't like it :)))

I love it. :))))

Originally posted by gamerman98

Exactly...they pussified WoW because the players all complain that its either "too hard" or they are just plain lazy to have to work for a mount. the game is just turning into more of a joke everyday.

Funny, you think its a joke, so I guess millions of people like jokes.

Seriously, why the hostility to the change? Its not like the mounts are free and not like you get them all at level 1. You still have to level to use them and get them.

As I have said before, think of the current situation: You get to Northrend at 68, have to go back to Outland at 70 to get your flying and mount so you can finally use it... but wait, you can't use it until 78 in Northrend so thanks for nothing.

If anyone would step back and THINK for a minute and try and rationalize that, it makes no sense. It made sense at level 70 when everyone was stuck there for months on end but not for new players now that the game is at level 80.

Some people are so focused on hating WOW and insulting the players that they don't even bother to think that the change makes sense.

So trolls, come up with one legitimate reason this is a bad change. The only possible issue I might see is that people skip some content or level so fast, they really don't know their class well.

Skipping content is a non-issue. WOW is an old game now and for many people, they either have a friend that introduces them to the game or some other connection. They can get help from their friends or the guild they joined so leveling is fast and now, you do level quicker so some content will be missed. Its like LOTRO - too many quests and not enough time to do them before you out level them.

As to the not knowing their class issue, thats fine too. Other games have done things that have hurt players learning their class. The /level 20 command in DAOC was notorious for destroying the community at lower levels and also for having so many level 20 players going into dungeons not knowing their class. In WOW, by the time you get to Outland and Northrend, you will know your class. By the time you get to 80, you better know your class as well especially since so much up to 70 is soloing now.

So seriously, so many people want to object to this change and insult the players, then come up with a damn good reason.

Oh and for all of you "WOW sucks because its not like it was at level 60" trolls - read the info on the new battleground.....yes that's right, IT IS 40 MAN.

Originally posted by Teala

About time.  They should just go ahead and allow mounts at level 1 and take away the stupid Northrend cold weather requirments(because they are a nuisance and stupid).

I think WoW is the wrong game for you. Seriously.

Are you one of those for whom the end game is the only game (cause it makes such good sense to ignore 95% of the game)?

Or do you actually find WoW difficult? I'm baffled to understand why, but am willing to listen to reasoned discussion on this point. I can tell you I personally have no problem playing the AH for gold (just get Auctioneer) and levelling is ridiculously easy nowadays.

Why do people want to kill everything I love about WoW or RPGs in general? I only hope once Diablo III is released that all the players who hate 95% of WoW (and so whine and get Blizzard to destroy everything good) move there and the dumbing down stops, or at least slows enough so I can get another year out of this game, without it becoming Toon Town (which _is_ cool for little kids - so I don't mean to call it a bad game. Just an easy and simple game).

I'm sure the temptation will be to get bent out of shape at my post, but instead of being rude, how about just telling me why you play a game which you hate 95% of and/or find WoW too hard?

Originally posted by Xiaoki

Euphoryk - thanks for proving me right. If it was up to people like you WoW would still have a max level of 60, would still have 40 man raids and the raiding progression and difficulty would be so steep that no guild in the world be past Kael'thas in Tempest Keep. Because the game should only be enjoyed by the top 1% or not at all.

Nicksd - yeah, you were in beta and played for four years and blah blah blah. So, how exactly is lowering the cost and level for mounts "ruining the game"? I would really like to hear how a change made for low level and mostly new players is going to ruin the entire game.

Wiggs1992 - yeah, you may just have to build up your character with skill and accomplishments rather than just buying your way to one. Oh no.

"Because the game should only be enjoyed by the top 1% or not at all." - ???? I'm sorry, is content before level 80 not the game? There's no logic in what you say.

Why do you want to remove all challenge? Gaming is overcoming challenge. I'll say it again - gaming is overcoming challenge. But you want to remove all challenge.

There's no logic. There's just no logic at all...

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by cfurlin

Originally posted by Euphoryk

If it takes any significant period of time to accomplish something, players whine en masse and have the content and mechanics nerfed to oblivion in order to further there own self centered goals for easy advancement.

Sad.

 

It's the same mentality that schools use when they abolish winners and losers in games because they don't want anyone's feelings to get hurt.  God forbid anyone should have challenges, sucesses, and failures and have to learn to deal with them like an adult.

{ Mod Edit }

It's a game for God's sake. You acvt as if everything we do in the world should challenge us??!?

Ever heard of the concept of fun?

If I want a challenge, I will do something challenging. I will take up a new hobby of sky diving or water-skiing. I will work on researching a  major problem or something like that.

I teach so every day I am confronted with challenges and seeing people succeed and fail. When I come come, I want to relax and have fun. I do not play MMO's to be challenged or to succeed or fail. I play to have FUN.

Before you judge humanity (funny I guess you are judging yourself unless you think of yourself as a godlike being), then maybe you should understand that what you want from a GAME and how you think people should be challenged is your opinion.

Gaming is overcoming challenge. So I don't understand what you're saying. It's illogical. Besides - there are easy MMORPGs out there for kids and casuals. My GF likes Toon Town. But she doesn't want to wreck WoW by petitioning Blizzard to make WoW more like Toon Town. Why do you?

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by Roin

I don't understand the hostility towards this change.  People are talking like this is the end of the world on something.  This change isn't even worth a blink.

 

The hostility is only coming from the usual Wow trolls and haters. They don't even play the game and just hang around,  frustrated by the fact XFIRE shows a climb in market share of Wow (it s even over 60% these last days).

On the official forums and with the actual players of Wow the measures are very greatly welcomed.

They assure that all alts and new players just have a much cleaner way to the end game of lvl 68 to 80 and meet the new Lich King content and patches.

It isn't a big deal : you are just moving a little faster in the world and assuring everyone can join the ride in to WotLK and patch 3.2 .... which will bring new content again (the new BG is again a 40 men Raid content btw).

http://www.wow.com/2009/06/12/isle-of-conquest-details-released/

Blizzard is on the way to become Emperor instead of King and the guys above don't like it :)))

I love it. :))))

Well _I_ play WoW and I hate the dumbing down of the game and the way it's players seem to hate MMORPGs (especially the RPG part), hate levelling, hate exploration, and hate challenge.

So you're wrong. Sorry.

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by gamerman98

Exactly...they pussified WoW because the players all complain that its either "too hard" or they are just plain lazy to have to work for a mount. the game is just turning into more of a joke everyday.

Funny, you think its a joke, so I guess millions of people like jokes.

Seriously, why the hostility to the change? Its not like the mounts are free and not like you get them all at level 1. You still have to level to use them and get them.

As I have said before, think of the current situation: You get to Northrend at 68, have to go back to Outland at 70 to get your flying and mount so you can finally use it... but wait, you can't use it until 78 in Northrend so thanks for nothing.

If anyone would step back and THINK for a minute and try and rationalize that, it makes no sense. It made sense at level 70 when everyone was stuck there for months on end but not for new players now that the game is at level 80.

Some people are so focused on hating WOW and insulting the players that they don't even bother to think that the change makes sense.

So trolls, come up with one legitimate reason this is a bad change. The only possible issue I might see is that people skip some content or level so fast, they really don't know their class well.

Skipping content is a non-issue. WOW is an old game now and for many people, they either have a friend that introduces them to the game or some other connection. They can get help from their friends or the guild they joined so leveling is fast and now, you do level quicker so some content will be missed. Its like LOTRO - too many quests and not enough time to do them before you out level them.

As to the not knowing their class issue, thats fine too. Other games have done things that have hurt players learning their class. The /level 20 command in DAOC was notorious for destroying the community at lower levels and also for having so many level 20 players going into dungeons not knowing their class. In WOW, by the time you get to Outland and Northrend, you will know your class. By the time you get to 80, you better know your class as well especially since so much up to 70 is soloing now.

So seriously, so many people want to object to this change and insult the players, then come up with a damn good reason.

Oh and for all of you "WOW sucks because its not like it was at level 60" trolls - read the info on the new battleground.....yes that's right, IT IS 40 MAN.

The hostility is due to Blizzard removing challenge. Gaming is overcoming challenge.

Not being able to immediately get cold weather flying forced ground travel through the mobs there. Thus it's not just a change in travel time. It is a major reduction in challenge in that instance. That's pretty simple logic. Are you _purposely_ misunderstanding?

You say this will help people learn their class? By making it even easier for new players to skip through early content and not learn the game? No logic... *baffled*

I don't think the players who support WoW's dumbing down have applied any logic to the argument. There are already simple action RPGs like Diablo II (and soon D3) and simple MMORPGs like Toon Town (and a wide variety in-between UO/EQ and Toon Town's difficulty levels). Why don't they just play those instead and stop whinging to Blizzard?

You challenge adicts need to take a chill.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with lowering the mount requirements.  Just helps younger players get through some of the more boring travel quests and such.

I like challenge, but long walks on foot are not challenging, but very boring.

Originally posted by Wizardling6

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by gamerman98

Exactly...they pussified WoW because the players all complain that its either "too hard" or they are just plain lazy to have to work for a mount. the game is just turning into more of a joke everyday.

Funny, you think its a joke, so I guess millions of people like jokes.

Seriously, why the hostility to the change? Its not like the mounts are free and not like you get them all at level 1. You still have to level to use them and get them.

As I have said before, think of the current situation: You get to Northrend at 68, have to go back to Outland at 70 to get your flying and mount so you can finally use it... but wait, you can't use it until 78 in Northrend so thanks for nothing.

If anyone would step back and THINK for a minute and try and rationalize that, it makes no sense. It made sense at level 70 when everyone was stuck there for months on end but not for new players now that the game is at level 80.

Some people are so focused on hating WOW and insulting the players that they don't even bother to think that the change makes sense.

So trolls, come up with one legitimate reason this is a bad change. The only possible issue I might see is that people skip some content or level so fast, they really don't know their class well.

Skipping content is a non-issue. WOW is an old game now and for many people, they either have a friend that introduces them to the game or some other connection. They can get help from their friends or the guild they joined so leveling is fast and now, you do level quicker so some content will be missed. Its like LOTRO - too many quests and not enough time to do them before you out level them.

As to the not knowing their class issue, thats fine too. Other games have done things that have hurt players learning their class. The /level 20 command in DAOC was notorious for destroying the community at lower levels and also for having so many level 20 players going into dungeons not knowing their class. In WOW, by the time you get to Outland and Northrend, you will know your class. By the time you get to 80, you better know your class as well especially since so much up to 70 is soloing now.

So seriously, so many people want to object to this change and insult the players, then come up with a damn good reason.

Oh and for all of you "WOW sucks because its not like it was at level 60" trolls - read the info on the new battleground.....yes that's right, IT IS 40 MAN.

 

The hostility is due to Blizzard removing challenge. Gaming is overcoming challenge.

Not being able to immediately get cold weather flying forced ground travel through the mobs there. Thus it's not just a change in travel time. It is a major reduction in challenge in that instance. That's pretty simple logic. Are you _purposely_ misunderstanding?

You say this will help people learn their class? By making it even easier for new players to skip through early content and not learn the game? No logic... *baffled*

I don't think the players who support WoW's dumbing down have applied any logic to the argument. There are already simple action RPGs like Diablo II (and soon D3) and simple MMORPGs like Toon Town (and a wide variety in-between UO/EQ and Toon Town's difficulty levels). Why don't they just play those instead and stop whinging to Blizzard?

Seriously, not ALL gaming is about overcoming challenges.

The Bartle Test (sp?) has proven that players play for many different reasons. Some of us, like myself, are very much a social/explorer gamer. I do not really care if I down the uber boss or if I get the uberest gear. I am happy exploring new sites and talking to people.

Challenges are all about achievement. People who want to be challeneged want to acheieve more. Some players don't. I like to come home and play a game for FUN. Remember that concept - having fun and relaxing?

You also misunderstood my argument. The point is that once you are ABLE to get your flying mount at level 70 you have to come back from Northrend to Outland, buy it and train it, then go back to Northrend to level. However, you cannot use the new mount you have. I am all for waiting until level 78. The content is WOTLK is awesome and should not be skipped. However, I am NOT for not being able to use your flying mount for 8 more levels when you can train it at 70.

This is the reason for the change. Old players got to use thir flying mount for months until WOTLK came out. It was old news. Now new players are penalized for being a new player because they have to wait 8 more levels.

So what is the best way for Blizzard to remedy this - allow flying mount use at 60. It is a brillant move actually. New players can use their flying mount in Outland ,speed up the process until they get to 70 and then take the mount away again. It will make getting level 78 even better now.

Lowering the level you get your mounts is just a natural progression. Flying mount at 60...then you must move the epic ground mount - which means you must move the regular ground mount, etc....

People will learn their class. You will learn more about your class from 70-80 simply because its is more like the current content. So much of the game is soloing now (mainly because instances are not worth the time and energy until probably 65+) people learn their class anyway.

I still have yet to see anyone provide a valid, logical reason why this is a bad change. Outside the elitist, meta-gamers who think everything is about them and who think WOW should be more hardcore, it seems to be a well-liked and well-accepted change.

Edit: Flying mounts still cannot be used in Northrend until 78, just FYI.