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Originally posted by VoIgore

Coming home from work and having say 2hrs to play, i prefer to actually spend my time playing and not watching. If i want to watch something, i turn on a good movie -if i fire up a game instead, i rather want to actively play. Logging into EvE, say 80% of my 2hrs i spend looking at my ship warping while i do...hmm...in some way nothing.

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1) Why are you flying 20 jumps to do something? Just do something where you are. Set up a base of operations and do stuff THERE. Shop at your local shopping hub dont go to Jita for everything just cuz it's 0.0001 isk cheaper.... hell even if it's a million isk cheaper it's often not worth the time it takes to travel there and back.

2) If you *must* go 20 jumps somewhere. log in to the game, set your autopilot and walk away and do something else (like go to work) just make sure you're not carrying anything super valuable in your cargo hold and you'll be fine. When you get back your ship will be at your destination waiting for you.

3) It shouldn't take much more than 20-30 minutes to travel 20 jumps in the first place unless you're autopiloting anyway. See #2 above if that's what you're doing. Otherwise you should be using warp-to-zero and fitting your ship with nanofibers and inertial stabilizers in the lows when travelling long distances to save time.

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The second double edged sword i think is "progress/skill over time" concept. I like alot about it, but once you reach a point at which you get your first couple of 5x+ skills and progress is only measured in month, well...I can hear the vets say "instant gratification is that way -> WoW"... but come on, it's not like that or about "instant free epics" we talk here.

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Set long skills and let them run over night when you aren't on or over weekends when you're not on. When online train shorter skills while you're playing. That way you still get some 'instant gratification' but your long skills will still be training. Now that there's a skill queue you can even do it automatically. At any rate, allow long skills to train when you're not at the keyboard and train shorter skills when you are. Sure you'll eventually have to train longer skills but by then you'll actually understand the logic behind the system.

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I often had the feeling that i need another game to play beside EvE to pass the time.  Or use it as a space-chatroom in which i can see ships maneuvering while i spend the majority of my time chatting to keep myself entertained instead of the game entertaining me.

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Yep, EVE is a bit more laid back than other games in many areas. :) It's a different style of game. Mining is a lot like fishing where you go sit in a belt, cast your line and wait a few minutes at a time. Missions are a lot more interactive and Ratting/PVP'ing in lowsec/0.0 (or even in highsec wardecs) are much more intense.

You get out of EVE what you put into it. It's a cliche' but it's true. If all you do is mine or run missions? Yah, you'll probably find it boring. Though some don't.

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Veterans going all over trialplayers with "gb2wow", "lolcarebear" and such is rather a little ridiculous and you know it. Instead, this -> www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235999/Eve-An-insight-into-Eve-for-new-players.html  is a VERY VERY good read and a great step towards new and interested players. I think EvE as a whole needs more approaches like this. It is not about watering down all your beloved "hardcore"-aspects -but for beginners there are just too many hooks and turn-offs.

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I'd agree that for new players it's tough to understand and get into EVE but it's also why EVE has remained what it is. EVE doesn't need to be 'dumbed down' or 'watered down' or 'mellowed'. EVE is what it is. A harsh place where people get blown up and also make bazillions of isk all in the same day. It's hard to learn and hard to get into at first but once you find your way in you get hooked fast and things quickly begin to make sense once it starts to click.

It's not a game that's about easy access and hopefully never will be.
 

Originally posted by VoIgore

I think the "click - warp - click - dock - click - warp - jump"-thingie is in fact overdone in this game.

Agreed. But it looks more like this...

... click - warp - grab a beer - dock - fall asleep - click - warp - take the dogs out to pee - jump - click ...

Originally posted by demolishIX

Originally posted by angriff

Had only 3 days left so I decided to go to a 0.3 system to see what all the hoopla is about.  Stopped along the 8 star system jump path to look at a few places mine some things and build some things.  Moved closer and closer to the .3 and the first one there was nothing so I mined a few things found that you can mine here without huge mining slugs from other players making all the asteroids dissappear in no time.  Might as well not bookmark any place they are at cause when you come back it is all gone.  So you click click click warp dock warp click click click warp dock sell sell sell buy click click click warp click click click click warp dock click click click ... endlessly if you want to get anything ...

So then you find that boring so you go to the .3 system to see what is up.  Then you find a base and go in.  When you come out there is big black red icon toten guy who locks on you and then shoots at you ... quickly you try to warp but he has some sort of super power thing he got for ninety gazillion hours of click click click warp click click click warp dock,, click click click click click warp dock sell sell sell buy click click click warp click click click click warp dock click click click .  Yep he locks onto you and you cant even dock back in the same space station because he is  king of  SPAWN CAMPERS DREAM OF A GAME.   You cant see out and tell if he is still there you just need to log off for 20 hours or so and hope he gets bored or you can just spawn in and let him SPAWN CAMP YOU!

So you blow up and go back to the place you have another plane but if  you dont have enugh money to buy anything you are done with your Free Trial.

  Nothing to see here,just another WoW player with lack of imagination that only did mining,got cocky went to low sec,got popped and came here to QQQ

 BIG NOTE,HE WAS NOT FLYING SHIPS,HE WAS FLYING PLANES IN SPACE!

Actually I never played Wow .. is it better than EVE? 

Big not they are big ships in space not planes.. planes you can fly with a joystick not a point and click.  Point and click is what we do on big ships with positioning systems.

If you want to fly a plane try WWII Online  :-)

Originally posted by Enkindu

 This type of thinking goes out the door around age 15.

i know you might want to believe that theres a point where men grow up.  but i think youll be hard pressed to find any woman, anywhere, that will tell you that men do in fact, grow up.

Originally posted by angriff

Had only 3 days left so I decided to go to a 0.3 system to see what all the hoopla is about.  Stopped along the 8 star system jump path to look at a few places mine some things and build some things.  Moved closer and closer to the .3 and the first one there was nothing so I mined a few things found that you can mine here without huge mining slugs from other players making all the asteroids dissappear in no time.  Might as well not bookmark any place they are at cause when you come back it is all gone.  So you click click click warp dock warp click click click warp dock sell sell sell buy click click click warp click click click click warp dock click click click ... endlessly if you want to get anything ...

So then you find that boring so you go to the .3 system to see what is up.  Then you find a base and go in.  When you come out there is big black red icon toten guy who locks on you and then shoots at you ... quickly you try to warp but he has some sort of super power thing he got for ninety gazillion hours of click click click warp click click click warp dock,, click click click click click warp dock sell sell sell buy click click click warp click click click click warp dock click click click .  Yep he locks onto you and you cant even dock back in the same space station because he is  king of  SPAWN CAMPERS DREAM OF A GAME.   You cant see out and tell if he is still there you just need to log off for 20 hours or so and hope he gets bored or you can just spawn in and let him SPAWN CAMP YOU!

So you blow up and go back to the place you have another plane but if  you dont have enugh money to buy anything you are done with your Free Trial.

we dont need you in eve anyway

Y'know, the thing that always made me lol about EVE is how people always use WoW for insults, to show that EVE is far more hardcore, and that, essentially, EVE players are of a higher caliber than those WoWtards.

The thing is, EVE is just as full of leet-speaking retards, incompetent players, morons, and people who act like angry teenagers as any other MMORPG I've played.

Staying with EVE long enough to learn how it works simply means you're more tenacious and have more patience than the average WoW player. That's where the comparison ends though, the EVE community and the average EVE player are no better than the WoW community or the average WoW player in any tangible way.

I've actually played and enjoyed EVE (and still consider it to be a good game), so I know this to be true... well, in my personal opinion, of course.

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

Y'know, the thing that always made me lol about EVE is how people always use WoW for insults, to show that EVE is far more hardcore, and that, essentially, EVE players are of a higher caliber than those WoWtards.

The thing is, EVE is just as full of leet-speaking retards, incompetent players, morons, and people who act like angry teenagers as any other MMORPG I've played.

Staying with EVE long enough to learn how it works simply means you're more tenacious and have more patience than the average WoW player. That's where the comparison ends though, the EVE community and the average EVE player are no better than the WoW community or the average WoW player in any tangible way.

I've actually played and enjoyed EVE (and still consider it to be a good game), so I know this to be true... well, in my personal opinion, of course.

I'll agree with that. I am not playing EVE currently because my friends play LOTRO.  I like EVE and consider it one of the best games out there. IT IS NOT FOR EVERYONE.  That is probably one of it's best qualities.  Just about anyone can play WOW, even LOTRO for that matter, it takes a cetain hard-core grit to play EVE and enjoy it.  EVE players are like those people who drink Scotch and smoke Camels without a filter.  They sit in low-sec with their Ships they trained hard and long to fly and wait for the new comers to fly into their web, it is their "second" life.

  Yes there are many immature players in EVE.  A  Corp I played for once had a war dec'd on them... the only reason given was "I want to violence your Ship".  Every game has it's immature players... that's a given.

Originally posted by elderotter

  Yes there are many immature players in EVE.  A  Corp I played for once had a war dec'd on them... the only reason given was "I want to violence your Ship".  Every game has it's immature players... that's a given.

TBH That's not really a good example of 'immature' seeing as the whole point of EVE is PVP :)  But yes, every game has it's fair share of immature players.  Spend an hour in any of EVE's newbie corporations and you'll meet plenty of them.  But "Wanting to violence your ship" isn't exactly 'immature' given that EVE is a game built entirely around PVP.

Granted:  It's not very NICE.... but I wouldn't call it immature :)

Thankfully I'm above that nonsense :)   Noir. only wardecs people someone paid us to wardec :)

Though if we're on an op in 0.0 or lowsec neutrals would be well advised to steer clear.  While we don't typically HUNT neuts in lowsec we will in 0.0... and sometimes will in lowsec if our war targets are boring us too much :)

Hell people wardec small coprs just for the randsom sometimes.

Originally posted by cerebrix

 ok hold up a sec

 

that guys got every right to say he doesnt like the game.  you have to just deal with that.

 

i view eve like this.  its like a large group of people i know started drinking straight lemon juice and telling people its something cool people drink.  like the absinthe of juices.  so a bunch of people start drinking it, dispite the fact that its sour as hell and everyone looks like senior citizens from an old coors commercial the second after they take a swig.

No its like bourbon.  Some people are too whimpy to enjoy it

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

Staying with EVE long enough to learn how it works simply means you're more tenacious and have more patience than the average WoW player.

This speaks volumes, don't you think?

Originally posted by Enkindu 

This speaks volumes, don't you think?

It would speak volumes if EVE's player base seemed significantly more mature and/or intelligent than any other gaming community, but it really doesn't. It's just a small piece of the same pie: Drama llamas who bitch and troll the forums, leet-speaking people whom you can barely understand, immature jerkoffs who will talk smack like a twelve-year-old while hiding in stations... the list goes on.

I'm really not making fun of EVE's player base here. I'm making fun of EVE players who make fun of other player bases because they believe themselves to be superior.

Now I admire EVE, and I certainly wish it did have an elite, superior player base of mostly intelligent, mature people. Unfortunately, it seems to suffer from all the same pitfalls as any modern MMORPG community.

And for all of EVE's virtues, it does have its flaws. The joking claim that playing EVE is a lot like playing a spreadsheet isn't entirely baseless, for example. The fact that skills progress quite slowly and at a fixed rate doesn't appeal to everyone. Also, there is some truth to the assertion that you grind ISK for a day or three to replace a ship that got blown up in five seconds. I realize that this is in some ways a good thing, but EVE's cautious, expensive, tee-totalling approach to PvP doesn't appeal to people who want a lot of action quickly (not all of whom are leet-speaking teenagers).

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

Y'know, the thing that always made me lol about EVE is how people always use WoW for insults, to show that EVE is far more hardcore, and that, essentially, EVE players are of a higher caliber than those WoWtards.

The thing is, EVE is just as full of leet-speaking retards, incompetent players, morons, and people who act like angry teenagers as any other MMORPG I've played.

Staying with EVE long enough to learn how it works simply means you're more tenacious and have more patience than the average WoW player. That's where the comparison ends though, the EVE community and the average EVE player are no better than the WoW community or the average WoW player in any tangible way.

I've actually played and enjoyed EVE (and still consider it to be a good game), so I know this to be true... well, in my personal opinion, of course.

I tend to agree with the gist of your post.  EVE definitely has it's fair share of asshats and jacktards but I wouldn't say that it's community is the same as WoW's community.  The difference between the communities has very little to do with their average "Maturity" level.  The difference is more like their 'outlook or long term view' ability.

EVE isn't something you play with a short term view.  It's not really a game where you go "man I can't wait to get to my next level so I can use Y uber weapon"  It's more of a "ok if I train these skills here in a few weeks I can fly this ship with this loadout".  It's a bit more of a long-term planning view than an instant gratification 'oh I'll have it tomorrow' viewpoint.  Granted WOW does have some longer term aspects to it but NOTHING l ike in EVE.

I will say this, however, having played both WoW (yes, I tried it and hated it) and EVE I will say that the EVE community is far more helpful, in general, towards newer players than WoW is.  In EVE newer players are generally welcomed to the game and most vets will do their best to offer advice and even give items and gold to new players.  In WoW, even when I WAS a new player I didn't ever see generosity or a welcoming attitude even close to that in EVE.  For the most part new players are considered a nuissance and are ignored.  Getting advice is like pulling teeth and many of the guilds/whatever are now so oriented to end-game raiding that they are a 'high level members only' club.  

While EVE does have some corporations that have 'skillpoint' gates or 'you need to be able to do X' gates.  In general your typical EVE corporation will accept anyone who's not on a trial account.  And even that is more for a general corporation management sanity standpoint than a 'we don't like trial players' standpoint.  It's a pain in the rear to keep track of who's active and who's not and who can be safely removed to make room for more members without throwing in trial players who may be there in a week or may not.

So, on average, while I agree with your 'maturity' statement that EVE and WoW really aren't all that 'different' in that regard they are VASTLY different in the other areas I've listed.  At least in my personal experience.... and in that I know I'm not alone because pretty much everyone I've talked to who's played both agrees on that.

Originally posted by cerebrix

Originally posted by Enkindu

 This type of thinking goes out the door around age 15.

 

 

i know you might want to believe that theres a point where men grow up.  but i think youll be hard pressed to find any woman, anywhere, that will tell you that men do in fact, grow up.

Do women ever reach a point that they don't say whatever?

Originally posted by qweniden

Originally posted by cerebrix

 ok hold up a sec

 

that guys got every right to say he doesnt like the game.  you have to just deal with that.

 

i view eve like this.  its like a large group of people i know started drinking straight lemon juice and telling people its something cool people drink.  like the absinthe of juices.  so a bunch of people start drinking it, dispite the fact that its sour as hell and everyone looks like senior citizens from an old coors commercial the second after they take a swig.

 

No its like bourbon.  Some people are too whimpy to enjoy it

I drink single malt Scotch before and Cognac after dinner.  Bourbon is something my sister puts in coke.

Originally posted by angriff

Originally posted by qweniden

Originally posted by cerebrix

 ok hold up a sec

 

that guys got every right to say he doesnt like the game.  you have to just deal with that.

 

i view eve like this.  its like a large group of people i know started drinking straight lemon juice and telling people its something cool people drink.  like the absinthe of juices.  so a bunch of people start drinking it, dispite the fact that its sour as hell and everyone looks like senior citizens from an old coors commercial the second after they take a swig.

 

No its like bourbon.  Some people are too whimpy to enjoy it

 

I drink single malt Scotch before and Cognac after dinner.  Bourbon is something my sister puts in coke.

Interesting.. had you pegged as a chocolate milk kinda guy.

Originally posted by Taram

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

Y'know, the thing that always made me lol about EVE is how people always use WoW for insults, to show that EVE is far more hardcore, and that, essentially, EVE players are of a higher caliber than those WoWtards.

The thing is, EVE is just as full of leet-speaking retards, incompetent players, morons, and people who act like angry teenagers as any other MMORPG I've played.

Staying with EVE long enough to learn how it works simply means you're more tenacious and have more patience than the average WoW player. That's where the comparison ends though, the EVE community and the average EVE player are no better than the WoW community or the average WoW player in any tangible way.

I've actually played and enjoyed EVE (and still consider it to be a good game), so I know this to be true... well, in my personal opinion, of course.

 

I tend to agree with the gist of your post.  EVE definitely has it's fair share of asshats and jacktards but I wouldn't say that it's community is the same as WoW's community.  The difference between the communities has very little to do with their average "Maturity" level.  The difference is more like their 'outlook or long term view' ability.

EVE isn't something you play with a short term view.  It's not really a game where you go "man I can't wait to get to my next level so I can use Y uber weapon"  It's more of a "ok if I train these skills here in a few weeks I can fly this ship with this loadout".  It's a bit more of a long-term planning view than an instant gratification 'oh I'll have it tomorrow' viewpoint.  Granted WOW does have some longer term aspects to it but NOTHING l ike in EVE.

I will say this, however, having played both WoW (yes, I tried it and hated it) and EVE I will say that the EVE community is far more helpful, in general, towards newer players than WoW is.  In EVE newer players are generally welcomed to the game and most vets will do their best to offer advice and even give items and gold to new players.  In WoW, even when I WAS a new player I didn't ever see generosity or a welcoming attitude even close to that in EVE.  For the most part new players are considered a nuissance and are ignored.  Getting advice is like pulling teeth and many of the guilds/whatever are now so oriented to end-game raiding that they are a 'high level members only' club.  

While EVE does have some corporations that have 'skillpoint' gates or 'you need to be able to do X' gates.  In general your typical EVE corporation will accept anyone who's not on a trial account.  And even that is more for a general corporation management sanity standpoint than a 'we don't like trial players' standpoint.  It's a pain in the rear to keep track of who's active and who's not and who can be safely removed to make room for more members without throwing in trial players who may be there in a week or may not.

So, on average, while I agree with your 'maturity' statement that EVE and WoW really aren't all that 'different' in that regard they are VASTLY different in the other areas I've listed.  At least in my personal experience.... and in that I know I'm not alone because pretty much everyone I've talked to who's played both agrees on that.

Well one thing about EVE is a certain % of the players realize that to reach the upper levels you have to have people that are willing to help you and you have to be willing to help others. I'm not saying everyone in the game does this or that other games don't have similair features, but in EVE many players are always aware that they are just one apart of a bigger puzzle and that they are depending on others. I think this lends itself to a portion of the base being helpful, not because they are nice, but because they never know when they may need help.

True or False... once STO, KotOR, or JG:E releases, Eve's population is going to drop by 50+%.

I tried the demo, liked a lot of "things" about the game.  However, it's not for me.  I, too, like more interaction and the training just seems like a way for the developers to get monthly subs without people having to log on and use bandwidth.

Just my opinion.  I'm a WoW burnout and GW noob BTW who really wants a good scifi MMO to play.

Unless one of those games has the depth and complexity to challenge eve they won't have much of an effect.

The fact that eve is science fiction is almost ancillary at this point.

That may be what leads people to try it.  What gets people to STAY is how difficult and unique it is.

Originally posted by Taram

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

Y'know, the thing that always made me lol about EVE is how people always use WoW for insults, to show that EVE is far more hardcore, and that, essentially, EVE players are of a higher caliber than those WoWtards.

The thing is, EVE is just as full of leet-speaking retards, incompetent players, morons, and people who act like angry teenagers as any other MMORPG I've played.

Staying with EVE long enough to learn how it works simply means you're more tenacious and have more patience than the average WoW player. That's where the comparison ends though, the EVE community and the average EVE player are no better than the WoW community or the average WoW player in any tangible way.

I've actually played and enjoyed EVE (and still consider it to be a good game), so I know this to be true... well, in my personal opinion, of course.

 

I tend to agree with the gist of your post.  EVE definitely has it's fair share of asshats and jacktards but I wouldn't say that it's community is the same as WoW's community.  The difference between the communities has very little to do with their average "Maturity" level.  The difference is more like their 'outlook or long term view' ability.

EVE isn't something you play with a short term view.  It's not really a game where you go "man I can't wait to get to my next level so I can use Y uber weapon"  It's more of a "ok if I train these skills here in a few weeks I can fly this ship with this loadout".  It's a bit more of a long-term planning view than an instant gratification 'oh I'll have it tomorrow' viewpoint.  Granted WOW does have some longer term aspects to it but NOTHING l ike in EVE.

I will say this, however, having played both WoW (yes, I tried it and hated it) and EVE I will say that the EVE community is far more helpful, in general, towards newer players than WoW is.  In EVE newer players are generally welcomed to the game and most vets will do their best to offer advice and even give items and gold to new players.  In WoW, even when I WAS a new player I didn't ever see generosity or a welcoming attitude even close to that in EVE.  For the most part new players are considered a nuissance and are ignored.  Getting advice is like pulling teeth and many of the guilds/whatever are now so oriented to end-game raiding that they are a 'high level members only' club.  

While EVE does have some corporations that have 'skillpoint' gates or 'you need to be able to do X' gates.  In general your typical EVE corporation will accept anyone who's not on a trial account.  And even that is more for a general corporation management sanity standpoint than a 'we don't like trial players' standpoint.  It's a pain in the rear to keep track of who's active and who's not and who can be safely removed to make room for more members without throwing in trial players who may be there in a week or may not.

So, on average, while I agree with your 'maturity' statement that EVE and WoW really aren't all that 'different' in that regard they are VASTLY different in the other areas I've listed.  At least in my personal experience.... and in that I know I'm not alone because pretty much everyone I've talked to who's played both agrees on that.

<3 you

And that was absolutely correct.

/retired WoW player (4 years)

/new EVE player (~1 month)