I'd very much prefer to have it all in FPV. More immersive and opens up for a whole lot of new tactics! Besides, it's going to be a fresh experience compared to a "normal" MMO.

Originally posted by sandolainen

I'd very much prefer to have it all in FPV. More immersive and opens up for a whole lot of new tactics! Besides, it's going to be a fresh experience compared to a "normal" MMO.

Forcing you to play your toon upside down would also open up new tactics and be a fresh experience. That doesn't make it good, or even practical.

And you could actually do that yourself by tipping your monitor over and upside down. But then the people that play the game as a normal (sane) person would get an advantage. Now we cant have that so lets force everyone to play with their monitors upside down!

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by sandolainen

I'd very much prefer to have it all in FPV. More immersive and opens up for a whole lot of new tactics! Besides, it's going to be a fresh experience compared to a "normal" MMO.

 

Forcing you to play your toon upside down would also open up new tactics and be a fresh experience. That doesn't make it good, or even practical.

And you could actually do that yourself by tipping your monitor over and upside down. But then the people that play the game as a normal (sane) person would get an advantage. Now we cant have that so lets force everyone to play with their monitors upside down!

That is a completely dumb comparison, FPV has been in gaming for years and is a well known and tested form of in game view, they have decided not to put 3PV period, its not "wrong" it was their choice, i understand its not your preference but trying to make it look like the "WRONG" way with stupid comparisons doesnt really help, you dont like it fine, but there is nothing wrong with the developers choosing this over allowing 3PV.

Your the one not sounding very "sane" with these comparisons.

Don't know why everyone is so die-hard about having a 3rd-person view...

No good fps-based game does 3rd-person; aiming would be clunky, and some features probably removed.  Assuming it's not poorly executed, this game should attract a lot of fps-genre gamers that typically stay away from mmo's. 

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by sandolainen

I'd very much prefer to have it all in FPV. More immersive and opens up for a whole lot of new tactics! Besides, it's going to be a fresh experience compared to a "normal" MMO.

 

Forcing you to play your toon upside down would also open up new tactics and be a fresh experience. That doesn't make it good, or even practical.

And you could actually do that yourself by tipping your monitor over and upside down. But then the people that play the game as a normal (sane) person would get an advantage. Now we cant have that so lets force everyone to play with their monitors upside down!

 

That is a completely dumb comparison, FPV has been in gaming for years and is a well known and tested form of in game view, they have decided not to put 3PV period, its not "wrong" it was their choice, i understand its not your preference but trying to make it look like the "WRONG" way with stupid comparisons doesnt really help, you dont like it fine, but there is nothing wrong with the developers choosing this over allowing 3PV.

Your the one not sounding very "sane" with these comparisons. 

You're not getting it. Ofcourse the comparison was dumb and that was the point. Sometimes you make a comparison to make a point by making an excaguration and the point is that forcing you into a particular view that is NOT the standard (TPV has been standard in MMORPG ever since EQ) and then saying that this "opens up new tactics" because it prevents you from playing the game how it is normally done is a lame argument. Further it is stupid to say that people playing in TPV would get an advantage over people playing FPV. Well duh, playing the game in any way that is awkard (like upside down or FPV) could ofcourse give you an disadvantage.

As for it being wrong. Well I would guess that doing something that is not prefered by the majority of MMORPGers is generally a wrong thing to do. Same could be said about FFA PvP and full loot but those are features and not UI and completely different. Now if they have an agenda to try to lure the FPS crowd into their game I don't know but alienating the majority of MMORPG gamers I would say is considered doing the wrong thing.

Originally posted by sn0wblind00

Don't know why everyone is so die-hard about having a 3rd-person view...

No good fps-based game does 3rd-person; aiming would be clunky, and some features probably removed.  Assuming it's not poorly executed, this game should attract a lot of fps-genre gamers that typically stay away from mmo's. 

Really? Every single MMORPG after UO has had 3rd-person/bird view and you don't understand why it makes people upset that they chose to exclude it?

As for FPS based games, I have yet to play an FPS game that does melee combat well in 1st person view. For ranged combat sure, but for melee it is awkard and un-practical.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by sn0wblind00

Don't know why everyone is so die-hard about having a 3rd-person view...

No good fps-based game does 3rd-person; aiming would be clunky, and some features probably removed.  Assuming it's not poorly executed, this game should attract a lot of fps-genre gamers that typically stay away from mmo's. 

 

Really? Every single MMORPG after UO has had 3rd-person/bird view and you don't understand why it makes people upset that they chose to exclude it?

As for FPS based games, I have yet to play an FPS game that does melee combat well in 1st person view. For ranged combat sure, but for melee it is awkard and un-practical.

Um... Condemned:Criminal Origins, The Chronicles Of Riddick:Escape from Butcher Bay and Dark Messiah: Might And Magic do it perfectly just to name a few. The MMO's on the other hand, suck on both the melee and range combat side :D We only play them for the MMO part i guess, the game part is really crappy now that i think about it. 

To Yamota:

While I agree that certain things have become the norm as far as MMOs are concerned, I don't think that developers should limit themselves to only established mechanics and presentation. If the 1st person fits the gameplay better, by all means they should stick to their guns and offer just that.

Take Fallout as an example on how an established 3rd person view RPG was presented in 1st person in the latest installment.

Originally posted by Xasapis

To Yamota:

While I agree that certain things have become the norm as far as MMOs are concerned, I don't think that developers should limit themselves to only established mechanics and presentation. If the 1st person fits the gameplay better, by all means they should stick to their guns and offer just that.

Take Fallout as an example on how an established 3rd person view RPG was presented in 1st person in the latest installment.

Ah, but the argument is not to have FPV or not but rather forced FPV or not. Many MMORPGs have optional FPV and ofcourse MO could have it to, what I find ridicilous is the argument that having forced FPV would somehow open up new tactics. No it wouldn't, it would rather restrict you to using tactics only possible in FPV unless you count sneaking up on someone and ganking him, because he is incapable to see more than a 70 degree view, is a tactic.

In RL your view span is over 180 degrees, which is more in align to having an over the shoulder view rather than a FPV. So I don't get the immersion part either. Immersion if you are blind on one eye and have reduced hearing maybe.

Already been stated they won't but when you think about it, unless I am playing some fps game, Oblivion or Fallout 3 why would anyone need to be in fpv other than just having the capability of doing so ? Yes it will be different than most games but I really do not think removing 3rd person view from a mmo is a good idea at all.

Originally posted by spankybus

Originally posted by Metal_M

 For all those that are dreaming, waiting or insisting that there must be 3rd person in MO.

 

 There will be none.

 

 Get ower it, lads.

lol They don't have to get over it, they just won't play it. That's money lost which means its incredibly stupid on the part of Star Vault. Personally,  I love 1st person, and am finally glad to have an mmorpg where i can play 1st person AND see my weapons, hands, etc. But i can't really understand why people can't have a choice. It's not like people asking for a PvE server on a PvP-centric game, its a client-side feature that is a cakewalk to turn on and yields no gameplay advantage in PvP.

 

Forcing 1st person only = money lost, reduction in overall player base may affect gameplay (empty worlds suck)

Giving a choice = money gained, no gameplay impact

Allow me to...enlighten you on the error of your judgement.

Third-person based game (WoW, for example):  I hide behind a wall in order to surprise an unsuspecting victim, but since TPV let's him see around corners and the like, the element of surprise is ruined due to unnatural clairvoyance.

First-person based game (Mortal Online): I hide behind a wall in order to surprise an unsuspecting victim, and when he walks by, unaware of my presence, I can sneak up behind him and ambush his backside.

I hope you can see the impact TPV has on the element of surprise; it completely eliminates it.

Glad to see the carebears can't accept the fact that first person view and first person shooters work well. Planetside, for example rocked as a PvP FPS game until it died. First person view adds to the fact that its a sandbox, you won't be able to see a sneaky assassin behind you unless you turn your lazy ass around to look.  "O lewk IM TEH LEETZ, I ESEE FIFTEH FEET AROUNDS MEH!" So until you accept the fact that it works via hitboxes, which cause ragdoll effects, I.E. decapitation, dismemberment of body parts, disarming of weapons and other effects, stay on your grindfest themeparks with repetitive pvp and classes that restrict your character uniqueness.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Xasapis

To Yamota:

While I agree that certain things have become the norm as far as MMOs are concerned, I don't think that developers should limit themselves to only established mechanics and presentation. If the 1st person fits the gameplay better, by all means they should stick to their guns and offer just that.

Take Fallout as an example on how an established 3rd person view RPG was presented in 1st person in the latest installment.

 

Ah, but the argument is not to have FPV or not but rather forced FPV or not. Many MMORPGs have optional FPV and ofcourse MO could have it to, what I find ridicilous is the argument that having forced FPV would somehow open up new tactics. No it wouldn't, it would rather restrict you to using tactics only possible in FPV unless you count sneaking up on someone and ganking him, because he is incapable to see more than a 70 degree view, is a tactic.

In RL your view span is over 180 degrees, which is more in align to having an over the shoulder view rather than a FPV. So I don't get the immersion part either. Immersion if you are blind on one eye and have reduced hearing maybe.

What do you mean "forced" its part of the design, not one is forcing you to play MO, if I dont like FPV im not gonna play CS, im not gonna complaint that they are forcing FPV its just the way the game is, no one is forcing you anything, if you dont like it dont play it.

One of the reasons I'm looking forward to MO is because of the FPV. As others have stated, 3rd person would completely eliminate any sneaking or hiding advantages RL combat has. Not to mention aiming. First person will make combat much more realistic and challenging.

The only downside I can think of is 1st person on a comp is not really that close to 1st person in RL. You have no peripheral vision on a monitor. Over-the-shoulder might help with that.

Originally posted by sofak

Glad to see the carebears can't accept the fact that first person view and first person shooters work well. Planetside, for example rocked as a PvP FPS game until it died. First person view adds to the fact that its a sandbox, you won't be able to see a sneaky assassin behind you unless you turn your lazy ass around to look.  "O lewk IM TEH LEETZ, I ESEE FIFTEH FEET AROUNDS MEH!" So until you accept the fact that it works via hitboxes, which cause ragdoll effects, I.E. decapitation, dismemberment of body parts, disarming of weapons and other effects, stay on your grindfest themeparks with repetitive pvp and classes that restrict your character uniqueness.

Planetside also allowed for 3rd person viewing....or did you just forget that little thing.

Look they could lock the camera for 3rd person like they do in Mount and Blade.   Mount and Blades over the shoulder camera is perfect.    I do not see why that wouldn't work for MO.

Well, we can start with a simple fact; Mount & Blade is singleplayer. Then we can bring up the possibly best point against either of your arguments, they are called corners, I believe you've heard of them. And you know what? You can look around them, without actually 'looking around' so to say, can you believe that shit? Really, do not be so childish. The obvious must have completely escaped you people, but 1st < 3rd perspective, and it's inescapable...

You really need to get this simple fact throught your thick heads, First & Third person cannot, and will not, EVER! co-exist with eacother. You can never balance the first prespective against the third. It's that sweet old, all too needed, physical law in the way, preventing it all from happening. It was not only the right choice to do what these developers have done, but a bloody smart one.

You may want to break this game, but the developers, the people with sound judgement, does not. These guys appear to have a heart and spirit for game-development, so like they could give a damn about how many people play their game, they probably just want to make a good creation and be proud of it...

Of course, that is just an assumption, there is no telling if they're just like the other pricks out there.

Lastly, and this is kind of just as a side-note to Yamota; You can actually emulate sound pretty damn precice. Like, totally beyond anything one would expect. My advice if you've never noticed this, get different games or better equipment. Most-to-no games use this technology( I for one has never seen it in a game, but in a recording), but it's out there...

Originally posted by rav3n2

What do you mean "forced" its part of the design, not one is forcing you to play MO, if I dont like FPV im not gonna play CS, im not gonna complaint that they are forcing FPV its just the way the game is, no one is forcing you anything, if you dont like it dont play it.

Now you are talking about something else. Ofcourse no one is forcing one to play anything. When I meant forced I meant that there are no option other than FPV, hence it is forced. For example, WAR has FPV and TPV so you can choose which one you like, hence it is not forced FPT or TPV.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by rav3n2

What do you mean "forced" its part of the design, not one is forcing you to play MO, if I dont like FPV im not gonna play CS, im not gonna complaint that they are forcing FPV its just the way the game is, no one is forcing you anything, if you dont like it dont play it.

 

Now you are talking about something else. Ofcourse no one is forcing one to play anything. When I meant forced I meant that there are no option other than FPV, hence it is forced. For example, WAR has FPV and TPV so you can choose which one you like, hence it is not forced FPT or TPV.

But then every game forces you to something according to that definition, MO does not allow flying does that mean you are "forced" to stay on the ground? WoW does not allow you to attack a player of the same faction does that mean it is "forced" since you dont have the option?

It is part of the design, you dont have the option to use 3PV the same way you dont have the option to loot other ppl corpses in WoW, or how you cant build  your own house, or attack a player of your own faction.

If they had to add an option for everything anyone thinks its "forced" then the list would be endless, instead they have their own design and if you dont like the design then you look for another that suits you.

At this point the game has bigger issues than the player perspective/viewpoint.

Originally posted by Xasapis

At this point the game has bigger issues than the player perspective/viewpoint.

At this point i think the bigger issue is we have no clue whats the state of the game, so until then anything is speculation, while they had the right approach to the community it might as well be another POS. Lets hope not.

I think the 3PV vs FPV goes beyond the scope of MO, its just a design decision like any other for any MMO. While i understand someones preference for 3PV or FPV saying it wont work is just silly there are enough FPV and 3PV games out there that have been successfull in exclusively implementing one of the methods that are a proof of concept adding the networking side wont change much as long as the gameplay is suitable for the chosen method.

Edit: Its like saying you cant have an RTS with FPV , just because most RTS have an overview, ofc you can with the right mechanics it can be achieved it wont be just picking up age of empires and slapping in a FPV. Ofc this doesnt mean EVERY single RTS with FPV will have the right mechanics that will make it enjoyable the same way MO might fail to deliver the right mechanics for FPV to work but why should we limit new things on an already watered down genre before we even see them in action?

I didn't say it wont work, I am sure it will work. What I was saying is that the majority of MMORPGS do not have forced FPV (or forced TPV) but it rather lets you as a player chose which kind of view point you want to use and it is a fact that most MMORPG gamers use TPV.

That being said I think forced FPV will discourage alot of people from playing the game. People, like me, who otherwise want to play in a FFA PvP sandbox MMORPG. And that is, or should be, MOs selling point. Not forced FPV.

Originally posted by Yamota

I didn't say it wont work, I am sure it will work. What I was saying is that the majority of MMORPGS do not have forced FPV (or forced TPV) but it rather lets you as a player chose which kind of view point you want to use and it is a fact that most MMORPG gamers use TPV.

That being said I think forced FPV will discourage alot of people from playing the game. People, like me, who otherwise want to play in a FFA PvP sandbox MMORPG. And that is, or should be, MOs selling point. Not forced FPV.

Yes you see but they are also selling that with their design the FPV will fit alot better than 3PV, while I understand again, what you are saying as a personal preference we havent played the game, so we might try it at some point login and think "ohh yeah it does feel better with these mechanics only have FPV" or "damn, I wish there was 3PV, it feels really shit just FPV" we dont know.

I for one welcome a game trying to break some new ground in the tired, dusty and old Land of MMO's

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Yamota

I didn't say it wont work, I am sure it will work. What I was saying is that the majority of MMORPGS do not have forced FPV (or forced TPV) but it rather lets you as a player chose which kind of view point you want to use and it is a fact that most MMORPG gamers use TPV.

That being said I think forced FPV will discourage alot of people from playing the game. People, like me, who otherwise want to play in a FFA PvP sandbox MMORPG. And that is, or should be, MOs selling point. Not forced FPV.

 

Yes you see but they are also selling that with their design the FPV will fit alot better than 3PV, while I understand again, what you are saying as a personal preference we havent played the game, so we might try it at some point login and think "ohh yeah it does feel better with these mechanics only have FPV" or "damn, I wish there was 3PV, it feels really shit just FPV" we dont know.

I think you people are fooling yourselves as much as the Darkfall harcore real-men-of-video did over open PvP.

Most gamers have experienced FPV with the options in other games, and didn't like it. That's why they always say they like 3rd person. The "experience" you guys are talking about won't make up for it, it's a far lesser "experience" to the vast majority.