Ok I made this post on AS and was good to see what other player's take was on grinding in mmo's and would be nice to hear your guys thought's,here is my original post...

I have played mmo's for a while now and until recently grinding has been defined as having to grind mobs to lvl as there isnt enough content to lvl your guy.
Now reading some post's,not just on this forum but also on other's like mmorpg.com,grinding is now being defined as "having to do thing's to lvl up"I mean there are more than enough quest's that I have seen but still some player's are saying it is a grind.
Yes I will admit it is a slow lvling game but that doesnt constitute a grind.
My personal thought's are if you find doing quest's to lvl your guy a grind then maybe you are a bit burnt out with the mmo genre.

When I played AoC for example at release at come lvl 50 there were no quests to do and you basically found yourself a corner of the world to kill mobs for xp>lvl,then yes that was a grind but not doing quest's and progressing through the world.

Sorry having read so many thread's today about the so called grind I had to get that off my chest...

http://www.aionsource.com/forum/general-discussion/16282-define-grinding.html

Like I said would be nice to hear what you guy's think as I do feel if you are involved in the world and questing I really dont see it as a grind,just playing an mmo.

If a game forces you to repeat a proccess for weeks/months, then it's a grind, if you can alternate activities and still be equaly efficient, then it's not a grind.

That's my deffinition.

Grind has become more of a feeling... does it FEEL like grinding while leveling up?  Does it feel more like work than play?  Are the quests pointless and unimaginative?

No quests = grind.

Repeatable quests = grind. (I'm talking about some F2Ps that have you kill X mobs, turn in and do again until you are high enough level for the next mob quest.)

Boring game, crap quests, lame combat = feeling grindy.

</opinion>

Originally posted by madeux

Grind has become more of a feeling... does it FEEL like grinding while leveling up?  Does it feel more like work than play?  Are the quests pointless and unimaginative?

This pretty much sums it up for me. Back in EQ when fighting mobs with a group, or even solo, we called it camping. I had fun camping mobs or dungeon crawling.

Later on in other games when camping or questing became tedious and boring, it was grinding. Something you had to do to progress, not something done for fun.

Sorry all, but Wikipedia wins yet again :

A grind is the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game.

 EDIT: Doing quests is a grind IMO, a quest grind, and killing mobs over and over is also a grind, a mob grind. So yea there's always some sort of grind, here's where the devs show their ability and hide it as much as they can.

Originally posted by Electriceye

Sorry all, but Wikipedia wins yet again :

 

A grind is the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game.

 

 

Indeed mate but I asked for player's opinion on what they thought a grind was and not what is written by wiki..no offense but as I said in my OP it used to be that a grind was having to kill the same mobs over and over but now quite a few player's seem to find the fact of questing and engaging in the mmo world as a grind.

Originally posted by daylight01

Originally posted by Electriceye

Sorry all, but Wikipedia wins yet again :

 

A grind is the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game.

 

 

Indeed mate but I asked for player's opinion on what they thought a grind was and not what is written by wiki..no offense but as I said in my OP it used to be that a grind was having to kill the same mobs over and over but now quite a few player's seem to find the fact of questing and engaging in the mmo world as a grind.

I had edited it before you posted, there's my opinion.

Grinding (Verb)  GrrahinDING - To play any PlayNC game; when fun in a videogame turns to thoughts of wasted life.

Example: ".....busy playing Lineage 2.... omgz0r Lineage 3.0 (Aion) MOAR FUNZ"

Originally posted by Electriceye

Sorry all, but Wikipedia wins yet again :

 

A grind is the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game.

 

 EDIT: Doing quests is a grind IMO, a quest grind, and killing mobs over and over is also a grind, a mob grind. So yea there's always some sort of grind, here's where the devs show their ability and hide it as much as they can.

Wikipedia is just a more organized version of this site. Opinion based information to be worded into what looks like facts. Even though yes, that is what most people associate the term with BUT.. just thought I'd warn you, Wikepedia is not a valid source for research or proving things.

Originally posted by GrandoReaper

Grinding (Verb)  GrrahinDING - To play any PlayNC game; when fun in a videogame turns to thoughts of wasted life.

Example: ".....busy playing Lineage 2.... omgz0r Lineage 3.0 (Aion) MOAR FUNZ"

That's very funny and all, but Aion is in no way 'Lineage III' (it's in development), and it's nothing like L2 (except for the art), so yea, some ignorant statement.

Not that you care anyway.

Originally posted by Vynt

Originally posted by madeux

Grind has become more of a feeling... does it FEEL like grinding while leveling up?  Does it feel more like work than play?  Are the quests pointless and unimaginative?

 

This pretty much sums it up for me. Back in EQ when fighting mobs with a group, or even solo, we called it camping. I had fun camping mobs or dungeon crawling.

Later on in other games when camping or questing became tedious and boring, it was grinding. Something you had to do to progress, not something done for fun.

 

Exactly my argument as well. Grinding is the feel. It can be quests, it can killing mobs for XP, it can be logging in, it can be anything that is mind-numbing and boring.

Today I would call what we did in EQ and DAOC a grind, then I called it fun: log in, get a group, find a stop and kill mobs repeatedly for hours on end, hoping you didn't die and lose more exp than you began the night with. That to me, now, is a grind.

Now I differ with people when they say doing the same quests is a grind. It honestly depends on the quests. Sure maybe its kill the same 15 of this mob or gather 20 of that, but every time you do it, its different in some way. maybe you have competition and have to do it faster, you cast the wrong spell, you group up with someone else, you see a rare mob, etc.... it is never identical for me.

That to me doesn't make it a grind. True, it isn't the great, fun experience of doing new stuff or something major, but at least its not identitcal every single time.

Originally posted by AshGUTZ

Originally posted by Electriceye

Sorry all, but Wikipedia wins yet again :

 

A grind is the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game.

 

 EDIT: Doing quests is a grind IMO, a quest grind, and killing mobs over and over is also a grind, a mob grind. So yea there's always some sort of grind, here's where the devs show their ability and hide it as much as they can.

 

Wikipedia is just a more organized version of this site. Opinion based information to be worded into what looks like facts. Even though yes, that is what most people associate the term with BUT.. just thought I'd warn you, Wikepedia is not a valid source for research or proving things.

This is true, referencing from wikipedia is as good as getting info from a random forum.
 

Grinding to me is doing something that I find to be unfun in order to lvl up. Like running from quest giver to quest giver doing boring, uncreative quests. I've never considered engaging in combat with either NPCs or PCs as a grind.

Originally posted by GrandoReaper

Originally posted by AshGUTZ

Originally posted by Electriceye

Sorry all, but Wikipedia wins yet again :

 

A grind is the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game.

 

 EDIT: Doing quests is a grind IMO, a quest grind, and killing mobs over and over is also a grind, a mob grind. So yea there's always some sort of grind, here's where the devs show their ability and hide it as much as they can.

 

Wikipedia is just a more organized version of this site. Opinion based information to be worded into what looks like facts. Even though yes, that is what most people associate the term with BUT.. just thought I'd warn you, Wikepedia is not a valid source for research or proving things.

This is true, referencing from wikipedia is as good as getting info from a random forum.
 

Nah it's a bit better, there are references to the main origin of the information, and it's much easier and very user friendly. There's basically every single information you need. Anyway let's stay on topic this isn't about wiki.

 Well maybe I am going to de-rail my own thread here but what do you guys think a non grinding game is?

I mean there are many opinions as to why a game is a grind like questing or killing mobs to level,so what mmo isnt a grind?

I mean you dont have to lvl skills,attacks,spells,levels? I mean surely if you have to advance in an mmo then every single mmo is a grind so why is there so many posts that Aion is a grind?

If we use everyone's opinion on grinding then why is Aion's grind a minus point?

I may come of as a fanboi and I maybe am but I just cant see why there are post's calling Aion another grind fest when if you put it against any other mmo there is no difference,you have to play the game and advance,the only thing I see is you dont have to farm the same mobs as you would in a few mmo's,simply play the game...or am I wrong?

This is one i believe most mis use the word grinding.If you are having fun,there is no such thing as grinding.If you are doing repoetive things that are total boredom,then it is a grind.This is the weirdest part i cannot understand from players.

If you complain about the lev eling grind,tehn go do something else.The problem is that they don't want t odo anything else or the game has nothing else to offer them,so then why the heck are they playing that game?This baffles me to no end ,it is basically showing no common sense if you choose to play something that is a grind to you,and yet you stick around,forking over your money as a goodwill gesture i guess?

Originally posted by daylight01

 Well maybe I am going to de-rail my own thread here but what do you guys think a non grinding game is?

I mean there are many opinions as to why a game is a grind like questing or killing mobs to level,so what mmo isnt a grind?

I mean you dont have to lvl skills,attacks,spells,levels? I mean surely if you have to advance in an mmo then every single mmo is a grind so why is there so many posts that Aion is a grind?

If we use everyone's opinion on grinding then why is Aion's grind a minus point?

I may come of as a fanboi and I maybe am but I just cant see why there are post's calling Aion another grind fest when if you put it against any other mmo there is no difference,you have to play the game and advance,the only thing I see is you dont have to farm the same mobs as you would in a few mmo's,simply play the game...or am I wrong?

In my opinion there have always been grinds in MMOs. My definition of grinding is when you do the same thing over and over again, regardless of what that thing is: Questing, killing mobs, creating mats etc.

Most posters who say Aion is a grind are refering to the mob grind, because it's made by NCsoft and they have no clue about the game. They hate Eastern games, and are bitter and angry when one is mentioned. Those people are ignorant.

Aion doesn't have the grind these people say it has. There are always enough quests. It has the normal, quest grinding (most people don't call this grinding) most traditional western MMOs have.

It is NOT a minus point, it's the way every other MMO of Aion's type is. If grinding is one of Aion's minus points, than every other traditional MMO has this SAME negative.

Originally posted by Electriceye

Originally posted by GrandoReaper

Originally posted by AshGUTZ

Originally posted by Electriceye

Sorry all, but Wikipedia wins yet again :

 

A grind is the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game.

 

 EDIT: Doing quests is a grind IMO, a quest grind, and killing mobs over and over is also a grind, a mob grind. So yea there's always some sort of grind, here's where the devs show their ability and hide it as much as they can.

 

Wikipedia is just a more organized version of this site. Opinion based information to be worded into what looks like facts. Even though yes, that is what most people associate the term with BUT.. just thought I'd warn you, Wikepedia is not a valid source for research or proving things.

This is true, referencing from wikipedia is as good as getting info from a random forum.
 

Nah it's a bit better, there are references to the main origin of the information, and it's much easier and very user friendly. There's basically every single information you need. Anyway let's stay on topic this isn't about wiki.

Use wikipedia at any university as a reference and you will get the lecture of your life on why you deserve to fail.
 

 Indeed,

Tbh if you go back in the history of any game,not only mmo's but way back they all have some sort of grind that you either find fun or not..

Hell look at pac-man,the game that took more coins in the 80's than any other,now what did it do?

You completed 1 maze and moved on to the other,sure the ghosts got faster but you basically "grinded" those mazes.

Why did ppl play then...because it was fun!

Yes time's have moved on but name a game that doesnt have you doing the same thing over and over?

They are few and very far between,I think any coment that say's "Aion is another grind game" is nothing more than a hate post or from someone that is new,not new just to the mmo genre but new to gamming.

Originally posted by GrandoReaper

Originally posted by Electriceye

Originally posted by GrandoReaper

Originally posted by AshGUTZ

Originally posted by Electriceye

Sorry all, but Wikipedia wins yet again :

 

A grind is the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game.

 

 EDIT: Doing quests is a grind IMO, a quest grind, and killing mobs over and over is also a grind, a mob grind. So yea there's always some sort of grind, here's where the devs show their ability and hide it as much as they can.

 

Wikipedia is just a more organized version of this site. Opinion based information to be worded into what looks like facts. Even though yes, that is what most people associate the term with BUT.. just thought I'd warn you, Wikepedia is not a valid source for research or proving things.

This is true, referencing from wikipedia is as good as getting info from a random forum.
 

Nah it's a bit better, there are references to the main origin of the information, and it's much easier and very user friendly. There's basically every single information you need. Anyway let's stay on topic this isn't about wiki.

Use wikipedia at any university as a reference and you will get the lecture of your life on why you deserve to fail.
 

Don't worry, I'm not that stupid to do so.

Wiki is an online encyclopedia. I only use it for fast definitions, and read about stuff. I know you're one of those "Wikipedia suckszorrz" people, but you need to realize that it's very helpful sometimes.

Sometimes it's inaccurate, biased, unreliable etc. but other times it's a life savior.

There's a good thing in every bad thing as they say, so don't hate something because other people do or because it's 'the trend' to do so.

EDIT: stupid typo! 

 Any chance we dont de-rail this thread into a wiki topic?

Originally posted by daylight01

 Indeed,

Tbh if you go back in the history of any game,not only mmo's but way back they all have some sort of grind that you either find fun or not..

Hell look at pac-man,the game that took more coins in the 80's than any other,now what did it do?

You completed 1 maze and moved on to the other,sure the ghosts got faster but you basically "grinded" those mazes.

Why did ppl play then...because it was fun!

Yes time's have moved on but name a game that doesnt have you doing the same thing over and over?

They are few and very far between,I think any coment that say's "Aion is another grind game" is nothing more than a hate post or from someone that is new,not new just to the mmo genre but new to gamming.

Ah I thought you meant exclusively MMOs.

Gaming in general, I don't quite agree with you as it's entirely different.

I would never consider RPGs such as FFVII, Mafia, Fallout 3 etc. are grinds. Reasons? Story, Immersiveness, characters etc. In MMOs, the developers are creating an online world where you can interact with players like yourself, thus the focus is entirely different. It's on group content, economy, PvP etc.

Single player games are not a grind, they're... just different. I never thought about this comparison so I'm lost for words..

Originally posted by Electriceye

Originally posted by daylight01

 Indeed,

Tbh if you go back in the history of any game,not only mmo's but way back they all have some sort of grind that you either find fun or not..

Hell look at pac-man,the game that took more coins in the 80's than any other,now what did it do?

You completed 1 maze and moved on to the other,sure the ghosts got faster but you basically "grinded" those mazes.

Why did ppl play then...because it was fun!

Yes time's have moved on but name a game that doesnt have you doing the same thing over and over?

They are few and very far between,I think any coment that say's "Aion is another grind game" is nothing more than a hate post or from someone that is new,not new just to the mmo genre but new to gamming.

Ah I thought you meant exclusively MMOs.

Gaming in general, I don't quite agree with you as it's entirely different.

I would never consider RPGs such as FFVII, Mafia, Fallout 3 etc. are grinds. Reasons? Story, Immersiveness, characters etc. In MMOs, the developers are creating an online world where you can interact with players like yourself, thus the focus is entirely different. It's on group content, economy, PvP etc.

 

Single player games are not a grind, they're... just different. I never thought about this comparison so I'm lost for words..

 

so the fact for game's such as CoD4 and and as you mentioned fallout 3 you have to follow a plan to "lvl"your guy is not a grind?

I mean CoD4 you have to replay maps to improve,in fallout 3 you have a quest line that you follow to get further in the world,show me were that is different from mmo quests that you follow to lvl your guy?

It is all the same,you maybe have alittle more control in mmo's but at the end of the day you WILL follow the quests to get to end lvl.

what ever game you play they guide you to the end lvl ...and you follow.

Originally posted by daylight01

Originally posted by Electriceye

Originally posted by daylight01

 Indeed,

Tbh if you go back in the history of any game,not only mmo's but way back they all have some sort of grind that you either find fun or not..

Hell look at pac-man,the game that took more coins in the 80's than any other,now what did it do?

You completed 1 maze and moved on to the other,sure the ghosts got faster but you basically "grinded" those mazes.

Why did ppl play then...because it was fun!

Yes time's have moved on but name a game that doesnt have you doing the same thing over and over?

They are few and very far between,I think any coment that say's "Aion is another grind game" is nothing more than a hate post or from someone that is new,not new just to the mmo genre but new to gamming.

Ah I thought you meant exclusively MMOs.

Gaming in general, I don't quite agree with you as it's entirely different.

I would never consider RPGs such as FFVII, Mafia, Fallout 3 etc. are grinds. Reasons? Story, Immersiveness, characters etc. In MMOs, the developers are creating an online world where you can interact with players like yourself, thus the focus is entirely different. It's on group content, economy, PvP etc.

 

Single player games are not a grind, they're... just different. I never thought about this comparison so I'm lost for words..

 

so the fact for game's such as CoD4 and and as you mentioned fallout 3 you have to follow a plan to "lvl"your guy is not a grind?

I mean CoD4 you have to replay maps to improve,in fallout 3 you have a quest line that you follow to get further in the world,show me were that is different from mmo quests that you follow to lvl your guy?

It is all the same,you maybe have alittle more control in mmo's but at the end of the day you WILL follow the quests to get to end lvl.

I already told you some of the reasons are Story, Immersiveness, characters for RPGs.

For myself at least. I never really felt MMOs told a story, as you're one among thousands playing through the same quests at the same time. Some hit for immersiveness. Every one is the chosen one. In single-player games, you are at the center of the game, your actions are the only ones that count etc.

Not to mention stories in MMOs are usually told in a pretty bland manner (like in Aion) even though the lore is interesting.

In MMOs, all NPCs are the same, you don't get attached to any of them. In normal RPGs it's different. they're a big part of the story, they liven things up, you feel for them etc.

So yea, you can call it grinding all you want, but I keep it reserved to MMOs.

MMORPGs are a grind, normal RPGs are not.

MMOFPSs are a grind, normal FPSs are not.

In my opinion it's a very different focus, and each genre has a different purpose. Can't compare them.